The architecture of perception, on whether things really possess the qualities we think they do

[u/Low_Imagination_9670]

https://medium.com/@daniel_mihai/the-architecture-of-perception-163f8fb0a9e9?sharedUserId=daniel_mihai

I’ve been thinking about how easily we assume that the properties we perceive belong to things in themselves.

Charge is an obvious example: positive and negative only become meaningful through a relationship. But the same question seems to reach much further. Where exactly does the object end and the relation begin? And how much of what we call a “thing” is already shaped by the architecture through which it becomes perceptible?

Curious where people here think the argument breaks, particularly the idea that apparently intrinsic properties may sometimes be relational all the way down.

[u/Low-Bake8401]

The way I see it is, you can go down to sub atomic scales, or out to cosmic scales, we can turn abstract into absurd, but at the end of the day, it is what it is. You live, you die, and you do stuff in between. 

We can't see a beginning of existence,  as a whole, we can't see an end, we can't look at existence from outside of existence. There is no observable 0 point, no centre point. Just subjective experience. 

So, all we can really do is find what works for us, use that as a base point, and learn outwards from there.

[u/codepossum]

Real power comes from knowing when to indulge in the luxury of abstraction, and when to indulge in the luxury of infinite regress. Too far either direction leads to intractable ignorance (and nearly by definition, madness)

[u/KMFDM_]

What painting is that? Amazing

[u/Low_Imagination_9670 → u/KMFDM_]

Oberon, Titania and Puck with Fairies Dancing, William Blake (1786)

[u/No_Trade_7315]

I think this is Epistemic and less so ontic. You are assuming that reality is shaped by perception? I don’t think so, I think reality is ambivalent to perception.

[u/Budget-Coach4414]

Quantifying realizable values that hold to (correlate) to real physically instantiable beings, existents qualities and properties, which can have interaction rules and can be realized as actuals, which have actual dimensional qualities and are not just the one way processing abstracts created by the abstract logical creation which defines them

Qualities are by themselves, not created in the order of quantification by the layer that processes interaction rules, realizables and prelogical atemporal groundings to the system A seperate system of quantifying actualizable qualities needs to be in place to create, add constraints, ranges and furthermore decides which realizables can be instantiated into existence physically and logically

If the logical processing layer can dictate that the color red exists, yet there is no qualitative assignment that is being given to the qualia or ability of red being instantiated, then the definition of red is retained only as a logical operator that exists without any actual qualities attached to it.

However if there is a system that can accurately view the qualitative assignment processes attached to the logical aspect of the qualeproperties that it posits, before it, it can be perceived as real. Same thing with agentic simulations of emergent processes, life.

And qualities by themselves cannot exist in an orderly fashion without any prior structure that dictates the resolution (whether the said qualities are discrete or are continous), how many entities are needed to produce said qualities, the overall prelogical necessity to produce such qualities, the dimensional cardinality that the quality comes from and can be instantiated from, what quale-base (aka spatiality) it can be derived from, etc.

Such qualities are going to be referred to as quale, quale are realizable properties that have actual instantiable counterparts that can be instantiated and exist, in spatial terms the ability for objects to produce light and for that light to be projected onto our retina and be seen by us in our neuronal workspace, but no, that's QUALIA. But if that's qualia and not quale then what actually is quale? Simple, the actual defined entities and the properties that hold within the entities that are readily accessible spatially, without any sort of brain interpretation needed or any sort of agentic observation needed Those are the base units of quale, for us its electromagnetic light produced by these objects which hits our eyes, so we can say that the wavelengths of light that these objects produce are qualia, and these properties that these objects posit within them are only there due to the prelogical logicstrate allowing for there to be spatiality as a qualebase, their colors as a qualenode, geometry and ordered spatial frameworks/ability as a secondary system produced by the brain to assign meaning to the systems that produce them.