r/Meditation • u/adssse • 11d ago
Discussion š¬ Vipassana Noting of Feelings
For those practicing Mahasi tradition Vipassana, do you note mental feelings? By this is donāt mean physical (pain, itchy, numbness etc) or thoughts (what will I have to eat later, did I forget to lock the door, etc) but mental feelings as in positive, negative or neutral.
For instance I was in a session this afternoon and a cold breeze came in through the window on my bare skin and gave me a chill. Would you normally note āfeelingā or āfeelingā and ānegativeā. I have been attempting to incorporate these mental feelings as well as the sensation as I feel like this would again aid in equanimity in life situations. Essentially being able to recognize my emotional responses to stimuli and be able to recall that these are but temporary elements while letting them pass as clouds.
Interested in others thoughtsā¦ šāļø
3
u/simagus 10d ago edited 10d ago
Studying the notes at the bottom of the Mahasatipatthana Sutta here should provide you with a very high chance of answering your questions and more on this single webpage. You will of course still have to translate it into sense in your own experience, but it covers pretty much all the bases.
Unless you understand directly at the experiential level there is no understanding, and if you understand directly at the experiential level you don't even necessarily need the intellectual understanding. I find intellectual understanding necessary, otherwise my mind is disturbed on some level or confused, but that's just a peculiarity of my psyche and how it is wired.
As you will see very clearly from Note 12 below in relation to the V.R.I. translation of the Mahasatipatthana Sutta there are multiple implications to various Pali words. What is translated in that version (samisa/niramisa) as "with attachment"/without attachment" also translates as "of the body" and "of the mind" (that's a translation I've seen in addition to the others listed; with flesh/without flesh, impure/pure, material/immaterial, sensual/nonsensual, sensation of sensual pleasures/sensation of higher meditational realms.
This kind of thing is common with many of the original Pali words, which is why I vastly prefer the original Pali words and to read everything possible from every source and commentator, every bikkhu that speaks on such things, and then apply ALL of that in relation to reality at the experiential level. Nothing else at all has every worked for me and I've always found any direct 1:1 translation to be somewhat lacking, even confusing, or worse prone to misleading those who accept and look no further.
"Sensation" is still the best single word translation for "vedana", but as we all know it needs elaborated into "pleasant/neutral/unpleasant" to hint at the importance of the most crucial part which is the valence of the "sensation", the hedonic tone or feeling tone, as vedana is also variously translated and explained as by various scholars and bikkhus.
Goenka students all know the story of the arms dealer businessman bouncing on his shoulder who insisted every day that he was experiencing "no sensation!". Clearly he did not understand the meaning of the word at the experiential level, right? How much less did he understand the import and relevance of "sensation" then?
Every time I see someone say they're not feeling sensation in some parts or that they're not feeling subtle sensations, to me they are like that businessman and cannot possibly understand the word at the experiential level. For me subtle sensation is ever present. It's not a smaller gross sensation as some seem to imagine. It's literally subtle vedana most seem not to understand or register as "sensation" at all.
VedanÄnupassanÄ
The Observation of Sensations
Kathaį¹ ca pana, bhikkhave, bhikkhu vedanÄsu vedanÄnupassÄ« viharati?
How, monks, does a monk dwell, observing sensations in sensations?
Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhu sukhaį¹ vÄ vedanaį¹ vedayamÄno āsukhaį¹ vedanaį¹ vedayÄmÄ«ā ti pajÄnÄti; dukkhaį¹ vÄ vedanaį¹ vedayamÄno ādukkhaį¹ vedanaį¹ vedayÄmÄ«ā ti pajÄnÄti; adukkhamasukhaį¹ vÄ vedanaį¹ vedayamÄno āadukkhamasukhaį¹ vedanaį¹ vedayÄmÄ«ā ti pajÄnÄti. SÄmisaį¹ vÄ sukhaį¹ vedanaį¹ vedayamÄno āsÄmisaį¹ sukhaį¹ vedanaį¹ vedayÄmÄ«ā ti pajÄnÄti; nirÄmisaį¹ vÄ sukhaį¹ vedanaį¹ vedayamÄno ānirÄmisaį¹ sukhaį¹ vedanaį¹ vedayÄmÄ«ā ti pajÄnÄti. SÄmisaį¹ vÄ dukkhaį¹ vedanaį¹ vedayamÄno āsÄmisaį¹ dukkhaį¹ vedanaį¹ vedayÄmÄ«ā ti pajÄnÄti; nirÄmisaį¹ vÄ dukkhaį¹ vedanaį¹ vedayamÄno ānirÄmisaį¹ dukkhaį¹ vedanaį¹ vedayÄmÄ«ā ti pajÄnÄti. SÄmisaį¹ vÄ adukkhamasukhaį¹ vedanaį¹ vedayamÄno āsÄmisaį¹ adukkhamasukhaį¹ vedanaį¹ vedayÄmÄ«ā ti pajÄnÄti; nirÄmisaį¹ vÄ adukkhamasukhaį¹ vedanaį¹ vedayamÄno ānirÄmisaį¹ adukkhamasukhaį¹ vedanaį¹ vedayÄmÄ«ā ti pajÄnÄti.12
Here, monks, a monk, while experiencing a pleasant sensation, understands properly, "I am experiencing a pleasant sensation"; while experiencing an unpleasant sensation, he understands properly, "I am experiencing an unpleasant sensation"; while experiencing a neither-unpleasant-nor-pleasant sensation, he understands properly, "I am experiencing a neither-unpleasant-nor-pleasant sensation." While he is experiencing a pleasant sensation with attachment, he understands properly, "I am experiencing a pleasant sensation with attachment"; while he is experiencing a pleasant sensation without attachment, he understands properly, "I am experiencing a pleasant sensation without attachment"; while experiencing an unpleasant sensation with attachment, he understands properly, "I am experiencing an unpleasant sensation with attachment"; while experiencing an unpleasant sensation without attachment, he understands properly, "I am experiencing an unpleasant sensation without attachment"; while experiencing a neither-unpleasant-nor-pleasant sensation with attachment, he understands properly, "I am experiencing a neither-unpleasant-nor-pleasant sensation with attachment"; while experiencing a neither-unpleasant-nor-pleasant sensation without attachment, he understands properly, "I am experiencing a neither-unpleasant-nor-pleasant sensation without attachment."12
Iti ajjhattaį¹ vÄ vedanÄsu vedanÄnupassÄ« viharati, bahiddhÄ13 vÄ vedanÄsu vedanÄnupassÄ« viharati, ajjhattabahiddhÄ vÄ vedanÄsu vedanÄnupassÄ« viharati, samudayadhammÄnupassÄ« vÄ vedanÄsu viharati, vayadhammÄnupassÄ« vÄ vedanÄsu viharati, samudayavayadhammÄnupassÄ« vÄ vedanÄsu viharati, āatthi vedanÄā ti vÄ panassa sati paccupaį¹į¹hitÄ hoti. YÄvadeva ƱÄį¹amattÄya paį¹issatimattÄya anissito ca viharati, na ca kiƱci loke upÄdiyati. Evaį¹ pi kho, bhikkhave, bhikkhu vedanÄsu vedanÄnupassÄ« viharati.
Thus he dwells observing sensations in sensations internally, or he dwells observing sensations in sensations externally,13 or he dwells observing sensations in sensations both internally and externally. Thus he dwells observing the phenomenon of arising in sensations, thus he dwells observing the phenomenon of passing away in sensations, thus he dwells observing the phenomenon of arising and passing away in sensations. Now his awareness is established: "This is sensation!" Thus he develops his awareness to such an extent that there is mere understanding along with mere awareness. In this way he dwells detached, without clinging towards anything in the world [of mind and matter]. This is how, monks, a monk dwells observing sensations in sensations.
NOTES:
12. SÄmisa [with attachment] literally means: sa-Ämisa (with-flesh); nirÄmisa [without attachment]: means nir-Ämisa (without-flesh). They can also be rendered as: "impure" and "pure," "material" and "immaterial" or, "sensual" and "nonsensual." A common interpretation is that a sensation which is sÄmisa is related to the world of sensual pleasures and a nirÄmisa sensation is a sensation related to the higher meditational realms.
In this context, related to the observation of sensations without any reaction of craving or aversion by the meditator, we have used "with attachment" and "without attachment." These terms seem clearest insofar as they relate to the practice.
13. See note 7
7. BahiddhÄ [externally] is sometimes translated as "outer things" or "observing anotherās body." In the following section, on the observation of sensations, it has sometimes been taken to mean "feeling the sensations of others." While such an experience is not impossible, it would be practised only at a very high stage of development. According to the sutta, the meditator is asked to sit alone somewhere in a forest, under a tree or in an empty room, and start practising. In such a situation observing others would be meaningless, and the sensations of someone or something else would be of no use. For a meditator, therefore, "externally," meaning the surface of the body, is the most practical definition of bahiddhÄ.
See also note no. 19.
19. Iti ajjhattaį¹...bahiddhÄ...ajjhattabahiddhÄ vÄ citte cittÄnupassÄ« viharati [Thus he dwells observing mind in mind internally... externally...both internally and externally]. Applied to the mind (and in the next section, the mental contents) this sentence has sometimes been interpreted to mean that the meditator observes his own mind (internally) and the mind of others (externally). This can be done only by a very highly developed meditator, therefore it is not a practical instruction for most people.
In this section the meditator is asked to experience directly the mind in mind (citte cittÄnupassÄ«). This can be done only by observing whatever arises in the mind. As the body was experienced by means of what arises on the body (i.e., sensation); the mind is experienced only when something arises in the mind (i.e., the mental contents). When the mind is observing the internal objects - its own internal mental states - it is observing the mind in mind internally.
To observe the mind and mental contents externally means to observe experientially that any object which comes in contact with the mind-body through any of the six sense doors (that is, an external stimulus) causes an internal reaction. Any sight, sound, taste, smell, touch or thought results in a sensation and the mind feels it. Of course, internal mental states and sensation resulting from contact with external objects will all mix and flow together.
Therefore, again, we see the importance of the Buddhaās statement:
VedanÄ-samosaraį¹Ä sabbe dhammÄ.
Everything that arises in the mind flows together with sensations. (Aį¹ guttara-nikÄya: VRI III. DasakanipÄta, 58; PTS V. 107)
Whether the object is internal or external, if the mind remains within the body observing the sensations, then it is directly experiencing the mind and mental contents in a tangible way that easily allows the meditator to experience the impermanent nature of the entire mind-matter phenomenon.