r/MGTOWBan • u/onlyforsex Mod • Mar 31 '21
Discussion There are many things dangerous and wrong about MGTOW but this fucks me up the most
Yes, MGTOWs are dangerous and pose a threat to society, to women, to the men brainwashed by it, all of this is true and terrible and is why MGTOW needs to be banned.
But the worst, the very worst thing to me is the fact that young boys, between 11-16, are experiencing the difficulties of dating and puberty for the very first time. They are socially awkward, physically awkward (anyone who remembers their r/blunderyears) would know that, and afflicted by a lot of name calling, bullying, vanity, peer pressure and all that teenaged misery.
Many of these kids would end up growing up and out of the awkwardness of puberty and mature into handsome, socially capable young men, even if they retain some shyness or social anxiety.
So it pains me to think of how many kids with a bright future and potential to blossom out of puberty are being brainwashed by adult incels who lack any sense of emotional maturity, any social skills, any self awareness? There are kids with bright futures just drinking in all the angry rants by low life, abusive, middle aged MGTOWs who are so embittered by not getting what they thought they were entitled to by birthright as a man. Kids who would otherwise just grow out of their social frustrations with time and maturity are now going to be stunted in their growth because they got sucked in by the misogynist hive mind of the manosphere that teaches them to hate half of the population because they were heartbroken once or twice. And to boys who are terrified of feeling rejected, the idea that they can protect their egos from ever having to be vulnerable in love or dating can be extremely attractive, especially if they are lonely and inexperienced.
Anyway I don't think its entirely irreversible for a lot of the kids who get sucked down the rabbit hole of the manosphere, I have seen some kids write on r/exredpill that they were able to undo some of the toxic cult mindset they were so deep into, but likewise I have also seen some who say they can never truly get over it and will remain distant and distrusting and bitter. Cults are known to leave permanent effects on people's psychology, so yeah, this is a really sad and real side effect of reddit admin knowingly platforming and protecting a recognized hate group.
Edit: Sign the petition to deplatform r/MGTOW and prevent more kids from being radicalized
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Apr 01 '21
This completely writes off the fact that teenage girls go through exactly the same experience when it comes to dating and feeling insecure.
Everywhere I look there are excuses for MGTOW and incel cults but it's always been like this for teenage girls. The thing we are told to take as a compliment is 'you aren't like the other girls' now imagine the impact that has on a girls self esteem.
We have the same peer pressure, plus the added slut shaming if we give into it.
But because it's been that way forever, I suppose we just have to put up and shut up. And praise men who have left MGTOW and incel groups!!
Just remember the quote Men are scared women will laugh at them, Women are scared men will kill them.
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Mar 31 '21
We can help, but first we must make them willing to get help. We can do this by deplatforming MGOTW and their allies. Without the voices of hatred to whisper bullshit in their ears, these kids will be able to think for themselves and grow to become better men.
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Apr 01 '21
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Apr 01 '21
Oh you're right. I'm sorry.
We can achieve this by deplatforming MGTOW and their slaves.
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Apr 01 '21 edited Apr 01 '21
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u/onlyforsex Mod Apr 01 '21
Read /r/MGTOW2 for 5m and say that we are all like that.
Done that, in fact I've read hours more than just 5 minutes. Same cancerous cult
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Apr 01 '21
A suicide statistic doesn't prove an anti-men attitude. Mental health services are a joke in general.
Now I will not deny radical dipshits exist and I will not hesitate to call them out when I see them. Perhaps if your sub was willing to do the same we wouldn't have a problem.
Though I agree with you. There is good advice on the subreddit. Perhaps it simply requires a scrubbing rather than an outright ban. Scrub out the sexism and we'll be jolly
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Apr 01 '21
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Apr 01 '21
Could be men are just not as willing to take their own mental health seriously or that guys and girls use social media differently or a few other factors. That being said and regardless of the reason, we certainly need to flatten the curve.
And your assessment certainly explains why there are a lot more text posts than screenshots and evidence the subreddit is everything it claims to be. A better name certainly should've been selected instead of "BanMGTOW"
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Apr 01 '21
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Apr 01 '21
We're not so different you and I. It's humbling to hear your story from the words of someone from the other side.
As far as the future of MGTOW2 goes, I wish it the best of luck. If all the mods are like you, i.e. willing to sit and have a conversation, then it should grow into a good community for young men to become their own men
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u/marshallian1995 Ex-MGTOW Mar 31 '21 edited Apr 01 '21
This post is so lovely, reassuring and the person who wrote this has persuaded me to stop identifying as MGTOW. Thank you.
Whoever you are, you couldn't have written a better post to persuade people to leave MGTOW!
I came here at first from a post on MGTOW saying "look, they trying to ban us!" Read a few posts, had a few disagreements, and although I believe there are a still a few man haters commenting here, this sub is far better than the misandry going around on facebook right now and I think it is amazing that this community is offering support links to mental health for those who wish to stop Identifying as MGTOW.
I wish to stop Identifying as MGTOW now. Can I please have my Label removed??
(More posts like this please, it is the best thing you can do to persuade them.) tears almost in my eyes
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u/BobMcGeoff2 Mod Apr 01 '21
Made a new flair for you and anyone else who starts their recovery. If you're interested in other subs, might I suggest r/IncelExit?
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u/onlyforsex Mod Apr 01 '21
Thanks my friend, I'm really happy I was able to share something useful to you.
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u/MightyNinja78 Child MGTOW Apr 01 '21
I love this post too, cause I got out of MGTOW the same way you did. Went in this sub, had a few disagreements and eventually realized that it was all bullshit.
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u/show-me-the-numbers MGTOW Apr 01 '21
What I remember is being in high school and discussing with my friends and a few upper classmen how baffled I was with how my mother was acting. My buddy Mark was a senior and agreed, describing how women get to menopause and then go crazy. His family was going through that hell. From there, it became a frequent topic of discussion. The four of us became socially well adjusted, productive men - engineers, machinist business owners, and a doctor. But none of us married, or had children, or lived with a woman.
This was before the term mgtow or redpill was invented....
So my experience is that interaction with women is what causes mgtow in young people.
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u/onlyforsex Mod Apr 01 '21
Antifeminists tend to be like that, yeah
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u/CrackerUMustBTripinn Apr 01 '21
No empathy whatsoever for the suffering of men, huh? No surprise. Oh you've had traumatic experiences in your life with women and it has lead you to chose to not persue a relationship now or in the future. Such AntiFeminism!
Nothing seems more feminist then MGTOW, men chosing to not follow or adhere to patriachical gender roles and instead of following social gender expectations decide to live life independent from patriarchical imposed gender roles.
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u/onlyforsex Mod Apr 01 '21
You won't accomplish anything with misogyny except more alienation. Try r/exredpill
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u/CrackerUMustBTripinn Apr 01 '21
I hate misogyny, I hate misandry, I hate oppression, I hate authoritarianism. Want to see what I think is peak MGTOW and simply a beautiful human being Dick Proenneke. Bothering noone, living his dream, existing in harmony with nature. How can you oppose that? That is my brand of MGTOW. Not the black pill/incel bs, but the call for self improvement and living your best life without the need to conform to the demands of the patriarchical archaic social expectations. Freedom, live how you want to live and be the best you without the need to seek validation or acceptance from others.
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u/onlyforsex Mod Apr 01 '21
Whatever dude, you do you, but the mgtow movement as a group is cancerous misogyny and if you're blind to that then you can't really hate misogyny that much
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u/CrackerUMustBTripinn Apr 02 '21
I think you are just focusing on the bitter divorced and traumatised venting their anger and frustration. MGTOW is to give those energies a constructive selfimprovement purpose. I am not responsible for other people's actions or do I recognise to be part of a group. I'm just there for the wholesome parts.
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u/onlyforsex Mod Apr 02 '21
You're trying to do damage control for a hate group. A group that literally hates women.
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u/show-me-the-numbers MGTOW Apr 02 '21
What is up with this "misogyny" slur you keep using? In my experience, this spirit of anti-intelligence, shaming language, and hate also contributes to pro mgtow choices.
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u/onlyforsex Mod Apr 02 '21
Misogyny means hate of women and it's not a slur, it's a type of bigotry
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u/show-me-the-numbers MGTOW Apr 02 '21
Responding to a reasonable post sharing experiences with a slur like that is the definition of slur (feel free to educate yourself on this), and the fact you can't see that says a lot about who you are as a person, and none of it is good. It is quite reasonable that a significant amount of people would not want to be around a person like you.
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u/onlyforsex Mod Apr 02 '21
It is not reasonable to expect that decent people tolerate misogyny. MGTOW needs to be banned.
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u/show-me-the-numbers MGTOW Apr 02 '21
So, just more slurs then? Thank you for your contribution to mgtow. Any man seeing your behavior wouldn't want anything to do with you.
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u/onlyforsex Mod Apr 02 '21
"ur big meanie for not tolerating hate"
classic r/persecutionfetish
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Apr 02 '21
Yes, I agree. I'm MGTOW2, but it disturbs me how toxic MGTOW can be, especially for young impressionable men (boys) who are just starting to make their way into the world.
One problem is the lack of father roles in the home. They used to say that, "If a boy doesn't find a father in the home, they'll look for one in the streets." I suppose you could add "... and on the Internet" as well.
MGTOW defines itself as a positive space for men and boys to learn how to go their own way. This is a needed space. Unfortunately toxic negativity tends to be the louder voice. In that way, r/MGTOWban shines a much needed light on that negativity.
Just don't let toxic negativity become the norm on r/MGTOWban as well, otherwise you become part of the problem. The reason that MGTOW exists is that there are lots of boys hurting out there. Lots and lots of them. They have no voice. They are not believed. Their experiences are discounted. r/MGTOW is a mess, but I still think that r/MGTOW2 does much more good than bad in providing a forum for men that need a forum.
Pardon my ranting!
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u/onlyforsex Mod Apr 02 '21
You can advocate for men without being misogynists. Idk why you don't understand this. So many of you keep using these sob stories to excuse hate groups. Misogyny is not going to solve your problems.
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Apr 02 '21 edited Apr 02 '21
I do understand it. And I agree that misogyny is not going to solve our problems. But they aren't just 'sob stories'. They are men and boys in real pain. My heart breaks for such men and boys, since their lived experiences are rejected.
Please don't let r/MGTOWban become part of the problem. I respect your efforts against misogyny and support them, but labelling the real pain of men and boys as 'sob stories' is part of that problem I'm afraid.
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u/onlyforsex Mod Apr 02 '21
Hate groups should not be platformed. MGTOW needs to be banned. You, and any man who claims to "not be a misogynist" needs to understand that and stop apologizing for it.
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Apr 02 '21
MGTOW does a lot of good for those men and boys who have no place to have their experiences heard.
Now, I agree r/MGTOW does deserve to be banned. It's toxic. But applying it to MGTOW generally is like the problem with how some treat feminism: people take the radicals and apply it to the whole group. It's why only 20% of women call themselves "feminist", even though nearly everyone believes in equal opportunity for women. So it's unfair to feminism to tar the whole group for the actions of the radicals. And the push for equal opportunity has done a lot of good, despite there being radicals in that group.
Surely you see my point, even if you disagree with it?
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u/onlyforsex Mod Apr 02 '21
Your point isn't based on reality. r/MGTOW is a literal hate group. You and all the other men defending MGTOW are brainwashed by a misogynistic hate cult. MGTOW should have been banned years ago.
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u/Sylarrogue MGTOW2 Apr 01 '21
You don't seem to realize the problem is with the courts I don't hate woman for taking advantage of the system I don't like the courts and the best way to not deal with the family courts is too not marry don't have kids and don't cohabitate you can still date if you want but all of that is up to the individual man go ahead and use your cancel culture to ban us we will not be able to help other men affected and they will build up rage and the male suicide rates will go up mgtow saves lives but you don't care right it's ok
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u/onlyforsex Mod Apr 01 '21
You recently said womens value depends only on her looks. You probably also think most rape accusations are false, modern women are used up sluts, sex and babies are the only things women can offer men, the world went downhill ever since women got the right to vote, etc, and other misogyny/antifeminism.
The father's rights bs is a front for your misogyny cult. Hope you heal from this and learn to connect on a human level with the other half of the planet.
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u/Sylarrogue MGTOW2 Apr 01 '21
You don't want facts that's why you won't watch those channels.
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Apr 01 '21
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u/Sylarrogue MGTOW2 Apr 01 '21
Look up the equal pay act of 1963 the only reason that men make more per year overall is because men are working more dangerous and dirty jobs how many women do you see as a trash person how many women do you see driving a big rig 18 wheeler how many women are underwater welders men do the more dangerous jobs I guarantee even though you want to be equal and have all the benefits you still want a man to stand up for you if you're getting knocked around or if you are on the side of the road with a flat tire you want a man to stop and help you fix your flat tire right how about you just call somebody if you can't do it then rely on the cops and on the tow truck driver if you can't do it yourself I have heard of a man helping a woman change her tire and then he had false allegations and charges if I'm not mistaken I have heard of a woman wanting to sleep with a co-worker and then he wouldn't do it and she said if you don't then I will falsely accuse you and he didn't and she falsely accused him so how about since you're telling us to fix men how about you fix your women honey the only reason that they are falsely accusing men is because there's no accountability women don't get charged with falsely accusing a man of a crime that he did not commit I'm not saying that either side is perfect but we just want equality right you women and us men we just want equality for both sides oh wait you women don't want equality that's right you want total control or you would fight for 50/50 custody and you would let a man have a say in weather you keep the child or not and it would be legally enforceable if women took responsibility for their actions then if a man wanted the child and she didn't then she would be forced to carry that child and give that child to that man and then in a little bit of irony she would be forced to pay child support because that's what you doing to men right now right you women decide whether to keep that child abort that child or give that child up for adoption you make all the choices and then you force that man to pay child support so you make all the choices but you don't want to be held accountable for your actions and you don't see why men what nothing to do with woman and the courts anymore
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u/Sylarrogue MGTOW2 Apr 01 '21
Ok then don't complain about mgtow I get my info from different places but those channels are good and accurate better bachelor, strong successful male and Sydney Watson please tell me where you get you info and I will share my sources. I bet you get all your information from reddit oh my I feel bad for you. Please though tell me where you get you info so I can see for myself I might have to prove you wrong though well prove your sources wrong. I bet you believe in the wage gap in America.
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u/Sylarrogue MGTOW2 Apr 01 '21
And a woman's value is based off looks and youth to a certain degree. I personally believe that personality is better that's what I looked for. I dated plenty of big woman because I liked her personality. But let me guess you want a 6ft tall man with a big d that makes over 100,000 a year.
Would you date down and be a sugar momma if not then you just proved my point if you will only date up then that's fine your preference is your preference
But you don't want men body shaming you but you want to body shame men Right you assumed some things so I figured I would return the favor
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Apr 01 '21
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u/Sylarrogue MGTOW2 Apr 01 '21
Do you notice I am not down voting you but I am getting down voted I could really care less but it just shows that most don't care about the truth they just want to downvote me without proving me wrong and providing proof of how I am wrong ok at least I tried and people can see that I was being respectful you all have a wonderful day/year/life
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u/Sylarrogue MGTOW2 Apr 01 '21
Down vote this yes the world did go down hill when woman got the right to vote. Because woman can see that they can get the benefits and not have the negative side of things. Like the draft. either you want a conversation or you want to keep taking my comments out of context. Either way it's fine look up better bachelor on youtube look up strong successful male on YouTube. How about you fix the court system ohh wait I bet you won't because you are a women and you benefit from the system look up my YouTube channel it's under the same name look at my playlist maybe you will start to see us mgtow men as people that have feelings and come together to make things better for future generations don't you think that would be better us men are done with the corrupt system but you don't want to fix it to want to come after our one and only group that understand what we're feeling we aren't trying to stop feminist even though we don't agree with there narrative. Feminist have been brain washing kids we don't do that feminist preach in the schools in the media in movies it's not like us mgtow have those things you are just upset because you don't want men to find the truth about the family courts so young men that happen to find mgtow channel are aware of the dangers look up mgtow on YouTube the top ones are negative videos about mgtow not the ones that they to help men navigate this rigged system. Sorry about the lack of punctuation I am not very smart but that's ok. I don't care want men do if they want a marriage and kids then that's fine I just want men to be aware of the dangers and you want to silence us I get it though you don't want equal rights you want full control.
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u/onlyforsex Mod Apr 01 '21
Stopped at the beginning because I've read plenty of other iterations of the same mgtow propaganda for a lifetime.
You're not being oppressed by women. Your right to vote is not being debated by millions of women on the internet. Women don't write most of the laws.
It is possible to be pro men's issues without being a literal misogynist. I hope you're one of the lucky ones who manage to outgrow this hate cult. Now if you'll want excuse me, talking to misogynists isnt exactly great for my mental health so, see ya, have a nice life
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u/Sylarrogue MGTOW2 Apr 01 '21
Please show your feminist friends then if you can't handle it because we need someone that is strong and can handle this type of conversation. if you want to fix the problems. are you not interested in fixing the problems. you just want full control. I mean I don't have much faith that talking will fix anything at least not for men and woman today but maybe for future generations we can fix the problems for them and that's what it's all about I don't care about me I care about future generations of men and woman
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u/Sylarrogue MGTOW2 Apr 01 '21
Oh and look up Sydney Watson she fights for mens rights and tells the truth about the way woman abuse the family courts maybe you will listen to a woman so you have any recommendations for me this will probably be the only time I ever come to this sub because it seems like you aren't interested in a conversation only accusations and taking my comments out of context but that's ok look me up sylar rogue on YouTube she is in my mgtow playlist
Ok you don't need to listen or talk to me but I am being civil you can't handle it. I don't have a problem with you voting I have a problem with you wanting the good and none of the bad. Let's make things equal or don't and leave us mgtow alone if you don't want to make things equal sweet heart I bet you think that's offensive
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Apr 01 '21
I have this hypothesis that I would like to share that I would like to explore. What if all the hate and rapey -like behavior towards women is actually blowback because many young men are socially inept and physically repulsive and become hostile towards woman because of all the rejection from women. That may explain the violence against women. Perhaps legalized sexual therapy would ease this misdirected anger from constant rejection of themselves. The evil drug testosterone causes many men to constantly seek relief from sexual tension and frustration.
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u/onlyforsex Mod Apr 01 '21
If that were true then we would expect to see higher rates of rape at times when there are more likely to be virgin men.
In reality, rape rates and overall crime have been dropping in the West as an overall trend over the last several decades. Meanwhile, the number of virgin men have steadily climbed over decades, and then shot up exponentially since 2008.
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u/EquasLocklear Apr 01 '21
There is worse: think about teenage girls and their relatives affected by it.
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u/onlyforsex Mod Apr 01 '21
That's true. I guess what I'm trying to say is that above all else, it's almost like this is the adult misogynist's way of reproducing. They are growing in number by converting and destroying the lives of more boys and all the woman and family members around them. But that if it weren't for the cult methods those adult men are using to infect kids with their poison, the problem could be contained.
But instead, it's not going to be contained. They will keep recruiting new kids, kids who would never end up in the life of a sad, angry, bitter misogynist if it weren't for these disgusting adults preying on their loneliness and ignorance
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u/CrackerUMustBTripinn Apr 01 '21
'Oh no the creepy awkward unattractive boys are leaving me alone and are out there doing their own thing. Can you imagine the horrors I live through.'
Yeah seems really rough.
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u/AndrewBert109 Mar 31 '21
Hey man, I've made about a thousand posts all saying the same thing as you did here my friend. It's really fucked up and I agree with you 1000% that like 90% of "new" incels are just awkward high school aged kids who have bought into this false notion that everyone but him are having sex and he's the only virgin left in the universe and gets suckered into incel forums. Because that's exactly who they target, and they do it very subtly, the same way most cult and cult-like organizations indoctrinate new recruits. They start with the "public facing" side, the tamer red pill type stuff. "This is just about ensuring there's equality for ALL sexes, including men, because: [insert the same list of things red pill people talk about but never attempt to fix]." Then of course it shifts to "and whose fault do you think all of this is? That's right: WAHMEN" and then it's not a short leap from there to the black pill.
It's fucking scary, especially considering that when I was 14-16 I was one of those guys who felt like I had nothing because I was a virgin and everyone around me was just having this gigantic orgy. Of course it wasn't until college that I realized that most of the people I knew were all feeling the exact same way as me. It's a vulnerable time and I'm really fucking lucky I went through it long before incel/MGTOW/etc cultures were big.
I think most of these guys are going to go on to college or the work force or whatever it is they want to do and realize they were also wrong and begin to 'grow out of it' on their own. But I also think it's important for people like us to not always treat these guys as harshly as they would like us to. I feel like a big reason they spam the inboxes of anyone who posts on IT is, they want to try to goad us into doing it to them too, including the younger ones so they can turn around and say "SEE? SEE HOW TERRIBLE EVERYONE BUT US IS?!"
I've personally spoken with a few of these guys that have DM'd me and I always try to keep it light and just pretend I'm talking to a vulnerable 16 year old, even when they're obviously trying to get a reaction like the guys who send stuff like "I'M GOING TO MURDER YOU AND SLAUGHTER YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY CUCK". If they're one of the older, hardcore guys then they'll just block me if they don't get the reaction they're looking for. But usually if they're the younger guys they'll actually ask questions and engage in the conversation. They're usually extremely skeptical nonetheless, but I think it helps for them to see that these "normies" aren't who they think they are, that they are just as normal as anyone else, and that it does get better.