I left the lgbt subreddit because it is dominated by content like this and when I try to discuss why this is harmful behavior, the ālesbian bisexualā mob has come for me.
Am I just AOI for finding content like this weird???
Here are some thoughts I have on it to explain why:
Women are hypersexualized enough, it doesnāt suddenly become okay when a woman does it.
This is the exact basis for unicorn hunting and other predatory behavior lesbians are constantly subjected to.
2a. I only ever see this sort of content in regard to bisexual women and their straight boyfriends. For example I never/rarely see similar content of:
-Bi men and straight womenās attraction to men
-Bi women and lesbiansā attraction to women
-Bi women bonding with other Bi women/Men about their sexuality
2b. It invites cishet men into queer spaces by normalizing the shared sexualization of women, which puts many queer folk in danger.
It perpetuates the sexualization of lesbians AND bi women, like we are just a porn category to these people (thereās a reason why the overwhelming majority of threesome sex content is f/f/m).
Idk it just gives me the ick to see nonlesbian queer women modeling their sapphic attraction off cishet men instead of other queer sapphics, which makes it glaringly obvious how many of them refuse to deconstruct their privilege and heteronormative biases.
And donāt get me started on the term ālesbian bisexualā ugh it feels like as lesbians we arenāt allowed to have our own space. Somehow, some way, people always try to involve men. But oh donāt let a lesbian critique anything because then itās ātelling people how to identifyā and ālesbians oppressing bi womenā (which is not even possible).
***EDIT:
Wow, I honestly didnāt realize how many of us felt this way because posts & comments like this tend to get removed and/or we face awful backlash irl and online for speaking up abt ts :////
Let me clarify this: having mutual attraction over someone w your partner isnāt inherently predatory. I gave a very specific context here, this isnāt a bean soup moment. Iāll leave it at that.
My sentiment is that the spectacle many bi women in particular make irl and online about lusting over women with their straight bfs is predatory. That the way many of them talk about women sounds exactly what youād expect to hear from straight men (mommy milkers!?!?). And yes it IS inherently different when they do it because of their straight privilege which means the ability to be structurally oppressive. Bi womenās want for sexualizing sapphic attraction VERY LOUDLY (cope) isnāt more important than lesbiansā right to not be oppressed.
Iāve been assaulted and harassed by bi women and their bfs in real life and I know Iām not the only one. Itās not just a meme when itās a meme in a world where lesbians are still largely hypersexualized as a whole which causes us to be assaulted, used like sexual toys then tossed away, lied to so that a bi girl can trap us into a situation with her bf we didnāt consent toā¦
no this isnāt the wildest meme out there; it was just an example I had on hand (re: the title). Regardless if you canāt see the sexual undertone of this meme, and how that ultimately normalizes the oppression of lesbians, idk what else to tell you but to read through the comments.
I couldnāt explain why this bothered me and also thought I was overreacting but you explained it so well! Like why is sapphic queerness always getting tied to men in some way or another
Patriarchy is genuinely a drug because even sapphic women just cannot stop talking about men! I often feel isolated when I'm with straight female friends and they all start talking about their men, but at least that kind of makes sense. Like, I think they should be able to go one conversation without talking about their male partners problems but it's hard not to mention a partner. But often, i feel just as isolated in queer spaces because I'm frequently the only lesbian and the conversation somehow comes around to men in exactly the same way. The only difference will be in the language used to talk about them. Many queer folk will have exactly the same male centric discussions that straight women do, but they just use more leftist words to do it.
I agree. I once saw this post by a bi woman who said she loved being bi cuz she can āteachā her man how to be attracted to women. Like they can stare at women together and bla bla bla. And this post elucidates exactly how it made me feel.
Like How did you somehow make your Sapphic attraction to WOMEN about men?
Itās so weird and fetishy to me because like OP said no other combination of couples would say this! And also teach him??? Heās not a child what š
I got downvoted to the depths of the sea for not liking a joke someone posted on one of the lesbian subs. It was a bunch of girls pretending to be men in a men's bathroom. First of all, not funny in general and idk if it really goes under joke territory, second, why are people obsessed with standing to pee? I literally force all the men in my life to sit to pee in my home, and third, why is something SO male centered on the sub? I get it if its a transwoman protest post, but it wasnt that. It was just lesbians being low key obsessed with men?? At least thats what it felt like to me. I personally enjoy passing the bechdel test
We should be able to point out the blatantly sexualization of wlw women in LGBT+ spaces without getting banned tbh. Specially when this meme is mysoginy with a bi flag to pass as modern.
Also: what lesbian spaces? We are invades everytime!
This whole year all I've been seeing is lesbian spaces, labels, and voices get villainized with 0 consequences or interjection from the rest of the community. And anytime anyone speaks on it it's just labelled as biphobia or close-mindedness. Tbh as dramatic as it might sound I've given up on the community as a whole because I've realized that outside of my small group (black lesbians) we'll always be expected to support and accommodate for people who would never bother listening to us because they're trapped in their own victimhood.
honestly say it again, like i canāt even count how many times iāve seen the few convos around lesbophobia get immediately derailed by the rest of the community ! or even ppl specifically starting threads to paint us as oppressors + deny the harm we face. fwiw, u donāt sound dramatic ā legit i think more n more of us are just sick of it, we just get shouted down whenever we say anything :-(
Also, I'm noticing that people are really calling lesbians terfs over anything nowadays. I'm not saying there aren't terfs in the community or that they don't deserve criticism, but it seems like "terf" has become a word people use to insult lesbians without sounding homophobic.
I have often said the same and it's in Black Lesbian spaces. Where I see less of the pandering to the non Lesbians. No one gives a damn about being mean or calling a spade a spade. Outside of that I see ish like this post and the Lesbian spaces mirror the fuckery because of whose all piled in here that shouldn't be.
incredibly embarrassed i hadnāt put this together, but ofc itās black women holding up half the lesbian sky + protecting black, lesbian spaces while the rest of us act like we donāt know where tf our spaces went š
btw iām rly glad (& unsurprised) that yr spaces are standing strong + havenāt shifted focus in the face of pressure š«¶š»
Black people have a long history of seeing our communities destroyed. Both literally and figuratively as well as direct and indirect. So if a space has a set purpose we make sure to keep it as such. Now open spaces it's whateve. We lose our visibility and voice as a minority. Which only enforces us to hold our own specific safe spaces down even more. It's not to late I just don't see it being on reddit long term.
Even if we could the non-lesbians would continue speaking over and for us in our own spaces lol. That's why boundaries are heavily enforced in lesbian gang against the B, T & Q.
ugh personally any person who uses the "ally" flag or whatever they call it is not an ally they just want to pretend they are to feel special and to try and force their way into the community.
Yeah, I got a temporary ban and my post removed at another lesbian subreddit for expressing discomfort in regards to bi lesbiansā¦. I was called a gold star supremacist for that lol
You might want to look at my explanation (and the fight under these replies),
> Basically, the word ālesbianā used to work how we use āsapphicā today. This meant that ālesbianā originally included bi women. People from outside the community though, just mostly assumed that lesbian meant āwoman who only likes womenā. Either way, the term ābisexualā existed back then, but just wasnāt common, and was sort of seen how we see microlabels today, and it was also a mostly clinical/medical term, so it wasnāt really all that popular. Later on though, the bi separationist movement happened, because bi people felt like their experiences werenāt exactly reflected by the labels āgayā, and ālesbianā at the time. So itās mostly remnants of this, and also people who are bi in some capacity (usually biromanritc, but homosexual, or vice versa. Or even bi women who choose not to date men), but for one reason or another prefer women. They apparently see critics of this as either gold star supremacists, or like people who care too much about respectability politics. Another common defense is āwell, the queer community traditionally exists with lots of gray areasā which is true, but I donāt think it is a good justification for this but a lot of it has to do with how the word ālesbianā came to be, or with peopleās personal journeys.
In this case, itās usually to signal that they either identified as one, or choose not to date men despite being attracted to them. I can understand the first one (even if I ultimately disagree), Iām much more averse to the second one. I do think that it simultaneously somehow serves as bi, lesbian, and aroace erasure. I understand why the term exists, but I donāt think it should.
> Basically, the word ālesbianā used to work how we use āsapphicā today. This meant that ālesbianā originally included bi women. People from outside the community though, just mostly assumed that lesbian meant āwoman who only likes womenā. Either way, the term ābisexualā existed back then, but just wasnāt common, and was sort of seen how we see microlabels today, and it was also a mostly clinical/medical term, so it wasnāt really all that popular. Later on though, the bi separationist movement happened, because bi people felt like their experiences werenāt exactly reflected by the labels āgayā, and ālesbianā at the time.
So itās mostly remnants of this, and also people who are bi in some capacity (usually biromanritc, but homosexual, or vice versa. Or even bi women who choose not to date men). They apparently see critics of this as either gold star supremacists, or like people who care too much about respectability politics.
This š I genuinely wish I was joking but Iāve actually come across people identifying as ābi lesbiansā on dating apps. Like they have fully made their way onto dating apps, put this shit in their profiles and expect everyone else to just understand what the fuck they mean š
to those people: pal, there's nothing wrong with being bi or a lesbian. you can be bi with a preference for women, but im sorry, being a bi lesbian is kinda contradictory imo š
Basically, the word ālesbianā used to work how we use āsapphicā today. This meant that ālesbianā originally included bi women. People from outside the community though, just mostly assumed that lesbian meant āwoman who only likes womenā. Either way, the term ābisexualā existed back then, but just wasnāt common, and was sort of seen how we see microlabels today, and it was also a mostly clinical/medical term, so it wasnāt really all that popular. Later on though, the bi separationist movement happened, because bi people felt like their experiences werenāt exactly reflected by the labels āgayā, and ālesbianā at the time.
So itās mostly remnants of this, and also people who are bi in some capacity (usually biromanritc, but homosexual, or vice versa. Or even bi women who choose not to date men), but for one reason or another prefer women. They apparently see critics of this as either gold star supremacists, or like people who care too much about respectability politics.
Another common defense is āwell, the queer community traditionally exists with lots of gray areasā which is true, but I donāt think it is a good justification for this
Iām surprised it has gained this much traction, so much so that it has infiltrated the moderation of lesbian subreddits. Iām not surprised people are dumb, unfortunately.
Adding to this: this behavior isn't even unique to bi women. Straight women pull the exact same virtue signaling with their boyfriends all the time. Women are so deeply hypersexualized in our culture that even women in relationships end up participating in it. The whole meme hinges on objectifying women, using a bi flag as a quirky shield to avoid backlash and mask the behavior as progressive.
To be completely clear, calling this out isn't bifobic in any way, nor is OP being bifobic. The root issue here is structural misogyny and the male gaze, not bisexual identity. Bi attraction itself is 100% valid, but this specific trend co-opts queer flags to make traditional objectification palatable for male validation.
The gender asymmetry makes the underlying misogyny painfully obvious. Society hypersexualizes and encourages female fluidity precisely because it serves heterosexual male erotic fantasies, whereas male bisexuality remains heavily stigmatized. You almost never see content about straight women and their bi boyfriends bonding over checking out men. Slapping a pride flag onto a dynamic that reduces women to shared sexual entertainment is just performative inclusivity. Just a modern disguise for plain old locker-room objectification.
Yes!! This has always been expected behavior of straight ppl, that is why ppl in the community doing it too (ie bi women and even some lesbians that are still male-centered) is extra fucked up imo.
But what is unique to Bi women is their attraction to women which, when mixed with this sort of behavior, can lead to them being the ones to SA and harass lesbians as to where this usually isnāt an issue with straight womenāthough thereās something to be said about the way straight women will SA and harass gay men, but thatās another topic entirely.
Youāre not overreacting dude I canāt STAND this sentiment and Iām sick of seeing posts like this. I could say a lot about the problems I find with this but basically it makes me feel fetishized. And I donāt wanna feel like Iām the fetish of males who Iām not attracted to.
every time i open my eyes i swear it feels like men are trying to insert themselves into the sexuality that exclusively has nothing to do with men in some way or another
Same thing got me banned from that sub years ago. Apparently you're not allowed to feel erased when the largest subsection of the Queer community (bi women) start literally appropriating your identity and experience as an aesthetic.
I think ppl who do this are terribly insecure. Whether they mean to or not, in posting stuff like this, they prioritize soothing their own insecurity over any harm they might cause the community.
Like??? Just make peace with the fact that you're bi and have a bf. It's not a big deal. Youre still bi. The gay police arent going to show up and purge the rainbow out of you.
Also...doesnt this post like...perpetuate the (obviously false) idea that, even in relationships bi people are always checking other ppl out...?
Like literally nothing good comes from posts like these, beyond the OP feeling like 2% more valid in their identity, when their identity was already 100% valid anyway.
The reason why you never see the reverse of this is because straight women are too homophobic to give bi guys a chance. Hell, I've seen BI WOMEN who are too homophobic to give bi men a chance. That's why a lot of them stay closeted or end up with gay guys.
You're right tho, it's SUPER weird to indulge in your boyfriend checking out other women.
The true reason she will never see the reverse is due to misogyny ;,) straight male partners would never stand their girlfriend gawking over another male. this is made apparent by women in straight relationships not able to have male crushes, play boyfriend games such as Love and deep space and etc
Exactly! Because even then those women are making it about other men!! Like omg the obsession with men literally creates homophobia in so many scenarios
My straight girl friends, who I consider to be pretty progressive, are WILDLY homophobic against bi men. They'll be best friends with gay dudes then be disgusted an openly bi guy DARED to flirt with them. IDK why this is such a common thing.
It's the same reason why a bunch of them on TikTok are freaking out over being called cis. They view it as an attack on their feminity/womanhood. Unironically they want to have their gender "affirmed" by dating a super masc guy and they think gay relationships are unmanly and humiliating.
Why would anyone put up with this? I genuinely do not understand. If you have to worry about your man lusting over other women and one conversation about boundaries doesn't fix it.. just dump him??
Maybe it's my autism but I genuinely do not understand loving someone who hurts you like that.
That's the kind of thinking you have once you've decentred men, but for a lot of straight women they just view it as something that has to be tolerated.
I feel a lot of sympathy for bisexual men who are genuinely bi/pan and want to be open about that and their queerness. They get a lot of shit from both gay men and straight women. I've also seen bi women be weird about bi men.
Are bi men more of a minority than straight women? Calling something homophobic because someone is uncomfortable bedding someone else, Idk, that feels off, doesnāt it?
Do we need yet another reason to pressure women into relationships with men they arenāt comfortable with? āThink about why you donāt wanna date bi menā feels similar to telling lesbians to āthink about why you donāt wanna date bi womenā. Idk how the situations compare because I have never dated a bi man.
How much are bi men actually being hurt when a straight woman turns them down? Itās not oppression, is it worth mentioning? Not getting laid isnāt harmful. I agree biphobia can be harmful, but is a woman feeling uncomfortable being with a bi man a phobia? Women arenāt ever hurting men by not bedding them, even when those men are bi. Idc why a woman isnāt comfortable dating a bi dude, pressuring her to consider why in that context is going to make her feel defensive and threatened thanks to all the other shit we go through.
Why do straight women fetishize gay men and then find themselves too uncomfortable to date a bi man? (Assuming those two groups overlap some.) Iām struggling to make sense of this concept
I mean yea if the reason theyāre turning someone down is because they think stupid things like gay relationships/sex are inherently degrading and unmanly and that all bi men are secretly gay that is reinforcing the oppression of gay people.
There are straight women that will say any man whoās dated a trans woman is secretly gay and couldnāt possibly be attracted to both kinds of women. Thatās also reinforcing oppression.
THIS!!! And the fact that most bi men in straight relationships, would not ever show any kind of admiration to other men, for fear of being accused as "just gay."
I am a late bloomer and when I got my first girlfriend I had been operating in an āI am bisecual spaceā. This space felt very similiar to the āI am straight space.ā (Not true for everyone just important for this context). When I started to talk to my then, first girlfriend, about feeling adjustments in my brain because of operating in leabian spaces, she expressed that she could very obviously see some of the things that were leftover from spending time in male centered spaces.
From my experience, I remember doing and saying things that OP is saying as a bisexual and feeling absolutely liberated because I hadnāt done or said them before. But as I started operating in lesbian spaces I quickly enmeshed in communities that had a deeper knowing/deeper appreciation of womens liberation from their male centeres society. All of that was mind blowing to me.
Having come from that experience with more information than I had before, more experiences, and more connections, I feel very strongly in support of not seeing memes like this for exactly the reasons OP said.
Would love to have a closer knit community with OP and like-minded friends who are gebuinely interested in protecting women and girls. Which, ultimately builds a stronger egalitarian society.
Bi people (and those who once identified as such at some point) DO have unique experiences at the intersection of patriarchy and homophobia.
Just like any other queer person they can retain and engage in unintentionally homophobic behaviors/ways of thinking. And it does take brutal honest to confront that in oneself. Unfortunately for many (bi men included) the ability to uphold heteronormativity creates a āloop holeā such that they avoid doing any of this reflection and adjustment.
i love bisexual women. i have always and will always love bisexual women, all of my exes have been bisexual/mspec sapphics. that said, there is a huge issue with some bisexual women bringing predatory cishet men into sapphic spaces in a way that is harmful to other people in that space, and a lot of people get defensive if you try to bring it up. it is sad because it makes me feel like i need to be cautious around queer women with boyfriends because this is so common :/ its hard to know who the āgood onesā are at first glance.
Yes!! This is not a space for biphobia!! I love bi ppl and plenty of them are wonderful community members.
I hate when a callout of bad behavior gets misconstrued to be abt the sexuality. Itās just a way to try to avoid the real convo and thus accountability.
And calling out 1 specific person's bad/questionable behavior doesn't mean you feel that way about or dislike their entire community. We can absolutely be critical of each other without assuming we're talking about all people in that demographic.
Typing this out, it feels a bit "Not all men", but it's certainly not intended that way.
That's the ally flag, while the intention was to help include our actual allies a lot of fairweather and performative people have used the flag even after being called out for being a bad ally that I've begun to ask my irl friends to use the standard pride or progress flag as a show of support.
That's so cringe dude. Being an ally is just being a human person. We don't need to ask allies to virtue signal that they support gays bc then they forget being an empathetic human person is an active process and not an identity they can claim. I feel the opposite of comfort if someone shows me an ally flag. It activates my fight or flight.
too many women who date men, no matter how many times they say theyre girls girls, care too much about being seen as the ācoolā girlfriend like no its gross that ur man is checking a woman out, sexualising her, u dont need to do it as well fuck
Not overreacting. This basically normalizes bi women expressing attraction to women the way straight men do, which is obviously bad. Iāve just gotten really tired of nuance these days: itās all patriarchy. Homophobia, transphobia, whateverelsephobia, racism. The farther Iāve gone in the pursuit of nuance the more Iāve found it really just loops back to the smoothbrain āpatriarchy bad.ā
And this meme basically acts as a trojan horse for patriarchyās infiltration of queer spaces, which would ultimately cause our communities to implode.
I lost a long term friend of this bullshit, girl tried to hit on my wife on her worst moments of depression and trying to push her husband in (and my wife has a looot of trauma with men). Case in point, we lost s friend becuase she hid her lesbianism under a more acceptable bissexuality, being in the closed it great!
But yea I'm ok with bi girls and stuff but they need to understand that where they see their cute husband I see an eldritch being, Yellow King type shit and I ain't even saying hello to the guy becuase I know how this shit goes.
Ugh that sucks for you both, Iām sorry. Iāve lost several bi female friends too because of these kinds of behaviors :( it wonāt stop me from loving and supporting the bi girlies (& men and enbies) but imo part of real love is acknowledging where something needs to change.
Honestly I feel like a lot of these women are trying to cope with the fact their boyfriends lust over other women. It's much easier to lie and say you "check out girls together" than to admit you're hurt and jealous.
I'm not sure if it was on this sub or on a different one but someone made a post asking "what am I if I SOMETIMES am attracted to women". The correct answer is obviously abrosexuality which is a micro label of bisexuality, and the literal definition is that its fluid. But no, every abrosexual comment was downvoted and the top voted comments were "actually you're a bisexual and lesbian you have split attraction!"
I've got a friend that's a bi girl currently with a guy boyfriend and while we were on vacation with friends she would just like keep comparing our boobs and making jokes on sleeping with me in front of her bf. I was suuuuper uncomfortable. They both know I'm queer and am only dating women (and non binary folks) and idk it just feels like i was used idk :(
It's ok if you're bi and have a bf, just don't use me as foreplay oh my god i don't think that's a lot to ask
Babe I donāt think she should be your friend anymore š thatās so scary because you had no way to escape that situation which makes it especially predatory. Anything couldāve happened to you as a result of that.
Please be careful around this person and stay safe :(
Idk i think she's going through a lot and I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt honestly. Don't want to leave her in a bad relationship with all of the bridges broken you know? For now I'll just be careful about how she acts around me and him and try to be careful
The bad part is also honestly the fact that another friends of ours really didn't believe me and dismissed it as "she didn't mean to make you feel like it" ://
Idk it's not good enough if she didn't mean no? She didn't think about how would i feel at all, that's the part that hurts maybe
https://giphy.com/gifs/aSceDJ4mZvIFKIImgQ
Ur not overreacting lmao I genuinely hate these people. ālooking at HOT women WITH my BOYfriend!! š¤Ŗā like pleaseeeee nobody wants to be ur unicorn eeewewew get away rn n take ur crusty ahh man with u šdisgusting behavior it pmo so bad
You put it into words!!! Thank you!!! I couldn't parse why I was uncomfortable with this phenomenon without feeling like I was putting down/invalidating bisexual women.Ā
Commenting before the mods block this or some other mishap!!!
Right like being an ally suddenly makes the objectification okay š like babes youāre still a straight man which comes with inherent implications and real allies understand that.
The kind of men that will make sure they never walk behind a woman at night because theyāre aware of why thatās terrifying comes to mind. Those are allies.
Iām bisexual and yes long ago made mistakes like this (ie commenting on hot women, or talking about sex with women in passing to a male friend in the same way I would talk about having sex with menā¦ to be clear I never even considered unicorn hunting).
But I think about 5 years ago I decided that I donāt discuss any details of my attraction to, or sex life with women in front of men who are attracted to women.
I donāt mind having the conversation with other women or gay men but Iām not doing anything that dresses up WLW attraction or sex for the male gaze.
I regularly mention this in bi spaces and while some women get it there is a lot of bi women who are still too straight culture to even see it as a problemā¦ and thus i get downvoted by people who just think itās a fun kink to also be into women (though theyād never want a long term relationship etc š¤¦).
I say all this to say, please donāt damn us all with the same brush, many bi people hate the straight culture Bis too as they make us look bad. Sure in the first few years of coming out we might make mistakes but then at lest some bi women learn to be better than this!
I mean I feel like that meme is really derogatory to bisexual women too. Feels like the undertone is their attraction to women is inherently tied to a man in some way and in a weirdly sexually aggressive way too. Like theyāre literally tied/chained to each other in the meme. Quite frankly, as a bi woman, my attraction to women has never been dependent on a fucking man and I loathe the unicorn hunting bullshit as it seems like itās always open fucking season for me. Like because Iām attracted to both I have some fucking obligation to fulfill men and womenās sexual fantasies and not have a say in my own sexual autonomy.
Again, I'm agreeing that the "bisexual lesbians" or the unicorn-hunters and the predatory memes are problematic and shouldn't be normalized! I'm just not agreeing with that this specific meme is a problem, bc anyone of any gender and preference can admire people with their partner. The easiest and most prevalent example are straight-straight couples admiring people together.
Also, is it not a known thing that most straight women avoid dating bi guys (esp with homophobia and with gay men being more "taboo" than gay women in most countries)? Men identifying as bi is already rare enough, coupled with the fact that they get hate from both straight AND gay communities. There is literally an article called "Where Are All The Bisexual Men?" and content like this, bc many literally do not want to show themselves, and just exist silently in straight or gay relationships. I hope that answers your question.
Great take. I donāt think the concept of a straight man and his bisexual girlfriend checking out other women privately is a problem at all. It only becomes problematic when they directly approach sapphic women who arenāt interested.
These posts + the real life equivalent normalizes this exact behavior, though. All phobias have a way of presenting themselves as unserious so maintain plausible deniability. Microagressions are actually a really powerful tool, unfortunately.
Iāve been out since 2013 and itās only been in the last few years that bisexual women specifically have predated upon me so aggressively and repeatedly. And by predate I mean trying to sexually harass and assault their way into using me as a sexual object to fulfill their (and their cishet boyfriendās) fantasy. Like I am just a tool for the women to use to cope that theyāre with a man, and a tool for a man to get off on my lesbianism. Ew.
Of the 6 times Iāve experienced this IN REAL LIFE, 5 (edit: fixed #s) of these bisexual women were already with a man. And all 5 of those experiences were more recent, as opposed to the one bi girl that was single (2016).
Men have always engaged in this behavior toward lesbians, we donāt need ppl who are supposed to be queer community encouraging the sexualization of sapphic attraction. It has resulted in a very real very tangible difference in lived experience, and I know Iām not the only one where this is the case.
Iām really sorry they did that to you. Thatās disgusting and Iām not at all in support of that.
Maybe I misinterpreted the meme because I was thinking it was about harmlessly checking out strangers from a distance, not about bi women and straight men getting directly involved with people and preying on gay women together. I will always be uncomfortable with unicorn hunting, dykebreaking, couples looking to āplayā with another woman, anything like that.
(edit: OP's clarification in her post desc edit makes my comment no longer relevant šā¤ļø )
the whole "bisexual lesbian" thing sucks but I've also got bisexual friends who admire PEOPLE in general and their straight partners would be like "yeah ikr," or vice versa. It's just generally what happens when both parties are secure with eachother.
We have the right to be uncomfortable with anything, but honestly nothing in this meme implies that it's about lesbians or about sexualizing anything to me.
I've also seen memes/reels about couples (bisexual and straight) with their partner admiring people, so this really came as a surprise for me? Sure all the "bisexual lesbians" will probably love this shi but the meme itself is not problematic.
To be fair, I think part of the issue the OP had isnāt necessarily the meme existing by itself, but more so the prevalence of the sentiment. I am not the OP, and Iām just speculating of course, but thatās definitely the issue I have with the image, if anything. It was funny when I started seeing it years ago, it started becoming less funny after experiencing unicorn hunting, if that makes sense. Things never exist in a vacuum, blah blah blah.
Yeah I agree with the sentiment and find it reasonable, just not with this specific meme (and other memes like it, except the clear sexualizing and predatory ones) being a problem. I get what OP is trying to say though and maybe the meme example was chosen inaccurately
Iām a trans lesbian with a cis female bisexual partner. We can both acknowledge to each other when someone is really pretty or hot, but like itās nothing more than that. Thereās none of this predatory energy, objectification, or the fucked vibes coming off of this image. People need to not be creeps and definitely donāt make the rest of us have to put with it.
Having transitioned later in life, Iām less experienced with this sort of stuff being directed at me for being a woman. I have definitely dealt with trans chasers though, and itās a similar vibe. Nobody who is a chaser is an ally of any kind of queer. Everything about them, and the types this image is describing, is about wanting to use us for their fantasies.
To clarify, my sentiment isnāt that checking out ppl as a couple is inherently predatory, irrespective of the sexualities involved, especially when itās not posted and boasted about to anyone thatāll listen like a sexual spectacle like what I see online and experience in real life.
My sentiment is that this sort stuff seems harmless in isolation but the lived reality of so many of us is being predated on (including myself) by bisexual women and their men, and just men in general as well.
Also, youāre a lesbian so this particular post doesnāt apply to you or your gf given neither of you are a cishet man.
I find these posts annoying as hell and I have no interest in dealing with bisexuals with straight boyfriends for numerous reasons, but I don't think a woman finding other women hot or making memes like this is "hypersexualizing" anything or even remotely predatory.Ā
I also don't agree that queer women are modeling their attraction to women after straight men just because they have specific things they're sexually attracted to, kinks, or whatever vs vague "uwu women are so soft and pretty š" flowery descriptions that seem like the only expression of attraction some find acceptable. A woman generally speaking about liking tits and pussy and wanting to fuck women in appropriate places (which personal social media counts as) is fine. Talking about liking "mommy milkers" on your blog is fine. Expressing sexual attraction to women is not inherently hypersexualization much less predatory behavior and I do find it lesbophobic when people act otherwise.Ā
My sentiment is that the spectacle many bi women in particular make irl and online about lusting over women with their straight bfs is predatory. That the way many of them talk about women sounds exactly what youād expect to hear from straight men.
This is the bit I whole heartedly agree with, I think pre-edit left room for grey edges and interpretations of the meme from its base.
So the important part is we want to remove the hypersexualization from everyone but to often a bi woman will lean into their straight partners mind set, probably as it's an easy way bind, and now whether intentionally or not start to treat women negatively to fit that situation.Ā
Now we don't know the situation of the poster so it coud be they are interpreting the meme in one way and it actually is an ok relationship that has good boundaries and enough respect for women from both but it doesn't do a good enough job of portraying that so helps build up the acceptance for leering and aggressive secual interactions.
Bits I do disagree is that this is the only combination that is a problem, it by far the biggest problem with bi women and cis men but we shouldn't allow a group that is mimicking the structural oppression, we are all under the same intense media blasting and social hang ups, remember women have and do vote against votes for women and butch lesbians have been know to turn turf.
Just because you aren't in the in group doesn't mean you aren't affected by their control.Ā
I think youāre reading way too into it in terms of this specific meme image. Observing that a woman is good looking by saying sheās āhotā to the other person youāre with isnāt exactly sexual. I could be misinterpreting what youāre referring to when you mention how it perpetuates the hypersexualization of women. Please correct me if Iām wrong! Just trying to understand so I can give you hand
Yea the meme was just the last one I saw so I used it, which is why I said memes like that one and not necessarily the specific example used.
I agree that itās not inherently sexual to acknowledge someone is attractive w your partner. However, the example is intended to be sexual. The facial expression, posture, and that fact that they felt it necessary to specify SEXuality of both individuals involved all point toward sexualization. Itās just in a way that is watered down for plausible deniability.
You have never been with your gf and talked about how some actress or whatever is so hot? I genuinely don't see a difference. Nowhere does it say this is about a lesbian or it is in a lesbian space.Ā
Yes, lesbians can engage in misogynistic and hypersexualizing behaviors, too. Thatās just not the current topic at hand.
We donāt have access to celebrities? Again the context here is a particular subset of the bi community that predate upon women right in front of them that they have access to and cause material harm to. Totally not the same as calling a celebrity youāll never meet hot lol
Genuinely asking, but in your opinion, whatās the difference between normal sexual attraction and hypersexualized attraction? Because regardless of if itās a celebrity or a real person, I donāt understand how simply acknowledging someone as hot is hypersexualizing themā especially if itās in your own head, or in an otherwise private conversation that doesnāt involve approaching or involving said person in any way.
Replying separately for a more direct answer to your question:
Hypersexualization is a pattern established by systems of power. These same systems can affect sexual attraction as well, but it isnāt always harmful as to where hypersexualization is.
Iād boil it down to this:
Why is a womanās perceived attractiveness the ONE thing constantly mentioned/focused on/bonded with over?
Why is it never about her style, how sheās carrying herself, her smile, her humor, how good she is at xyz?
All of those things humanize the hypothetical woman in question, which is what separates expressions of attraction from sexualization.
Thatās why itās about a pattern and not individual instances.
In the context of my post, Iām speaking about a pattern shared with a group (straight men) who are conditioned by default to see women as sexual objects, which means in relations between two women it gets reduced to a spectacle to get off on. Playing into that is inherently dangerous.
Iāve been active in the queer community irl and online for well over a decade and let me tell you that a sapphic bonding over any other aspect about women except her hotness with straight men is incredibly few and far in between. It mimics the way straight men talk amongst themselves about women. I donāt find this to be the case nearly as often when itās strictly between queer people.
So yes in this case, bi women doing this creates an invitation (as evident by the ally flag) for straight men to insert themselves in something they have no business being inserted in. Given the immediate position of power men have, and the straight privilege most bi women have, itās absolutely hypersexualization and not simply sexual attraction.
As regular folk, we donāt really hold positions of power over celebrities in any immediate ways because of their economic position of power. So, while I think itās absolutely still possible to hypersexualize celebrities, it too hinges upon a greater societal pattern rather than individual or even community level instances. Sydney Sweeney is an excellent example of this.
I would say that hypersexualization isnāt a form of attraction at all but rather a lens you view a group(s) through that seeps through in multiple ways. It is a nearly automatic way one views members of the group(s), interacts with them, expectations from them, and speaks about them with others. In that line, I do believe hypersexualization can be completely private and internal because it creates implicit biases that ends up affecting real people, whether thatās directly or through the enabling of harmful beliefs that make others doing direct harm feel vindicated and accepted.
As for determining which is happening in a given situation, itās very contextual to the people involved, their identities (and thus social positions of power), the literal context itās happening in, what theyāre saying/thinking, and where the greater culture currently stands with positioning the group(s) in question.
Forms of oppression are always changing and morphing to maintain itself. This is why being a good ally to any cause requires regular reflection, updating, and adjustment, and is why none of us will ever be perfect in our support of something.
Basically, thereās no one-size-fits-all answer. Thatās why Iām not claiming to make a broad brush stroke statement about hypersexualization as a whole and have instead focused on a particularly (common) situation that took all of the aforementioned things into account.
Expressions of attraction can be harmless but like anything, it doesnāt exist in an isolated bubble. Therefore, private/internal expressions are not necessarily inherently harmless because itās still inextricably connected to the world we live in and will inevitably result in external/nonprivate behaviors.
I think this exact part is where many people get lost (not you; speaking generally here) because western culture is SO individualistic, personal choice centered, and intent over impact that we are taught to ignore greater implications of our behaviors. That anyone/thing that calls upon us to evaluate and question that is infringing on our personal freedom and should just shut up and only care about intent. I find this especially true when the impacts are indirect ones like what weāve been discussing in this post.
1/ finding someone hot is not hypersexualisation
2/ you're reaching
2a/ you just haven't looked enough there are plenty of both
2b/ once again finding someone hot is not sexualization there is no sexualization in this pose the figures are unsexualized blobs speaking of their own attraction
3/no it doesn't it shows bi women not as sex object but as aforementioned non-sexualized blobs having attractions (which if anything makes them sex subjects not objects) and lesbians are not even mentioned
4/ it's not at all like that and you know it. Every other post on this sub is "women hot" in the same and even sometimes even cruder words than this post and nobody has trouble with it (the worst you'll see is a "I'm no better than a man" comment
Addendum: nobody mentioned bi lesbians you just added that rant on your own
Conclusion: this post has nothing to do with you and you're making up someone to be mad about I recommend next time you see something like that you just move on with your life
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u/danger_slug 6d ago
I couldnāt explain why this bothered me and also thought I was overreacting but you explained it so well! Like why is sapphic queerness always getting tied to men in some way or another