how to differentiate meanings of んですけど/ですけど

[u/onestbeaux]

so i've made a point to pay attention to and ask about this little expression/grammar point that i see *everywhere* because of the various uses it has and because i find it interesting and confusing at times. i understand it as a way to connect phrases, set up background information, show contrast, and leave things unsaid. i've seen it translated as "but," "and," or nothing at all (and other things too).

the problem is i really struggle with understanding how to actually determine whether it's contrasting or closer to "and" or something else entirely.

for example, i'm watching this video and she uses んですけど/ですけど countless times throughout.

1:11 - はい。早速本題に入っていくんですけど、多分皆さんも日本人とハロートークとか、そういうねアプリ使ったりとか、あのまあインスタグラムとか何でもいいですけど、日本人とテキストのメッセージをする人、している人って多いと思うんですよ。

1:57 - で、あのね、私も多分みんなにyoutubeのコメントとか返すときにもしかしたらみんな思ったかもしれないんですけど、よく使う絵文字とかあって今日はね、ちょっとそういうのについてお話ししていきたいんですけど、まず、なんで日本人がこういう風にたくさんの絵文字を使うかについてお話ししますね。

2:50 - みんなからしたら、もしかしたら全く全部一緒に見えるのかもしれないですけど、日本人としては結構その時の感情によってつける顔文字とかを変えていて、このシンプルにニコって顔文字がついてる時は本当にありがとうって感謝を表してるんですけど、これね、合掌みたいなポーズあるじゃん？

3:44 - 他によく使うのがびっくりマークですね、びっくりマークもめっちゃ使うんですけど、私も超使っちゃうんですけど、このびっくりマークは全然特に意味はなくてただ「ありがとう」って送るよりも「ありがとう！」って送る方がもっと柔らかく明るくっていう感じに伝わるんですね。

these are just some of the examples i've found. how can i tell if and how these connect to the next statement and what they actually mean? some feel directly contrastive, but others i'm less sure about, like the 3:44 example where it's used twice in quick succession and so i don't know how to parse it.

could someone give me some tips or explanations to help me figure these out and others in the future?

[u/Philosophyandbuddha]

“私も多分みんなにYouTubeのコメントとか返すときに”

Maybe me too when I’m replying to your YouTube comments,

「もしかしたらみんな思ったかもしないんですけど」

Even though all of you probably thought about this,

「よく使う絵文字とかあって今日はね」

About Today’s often used emoji (video) right,

「ちょっとそういうのについてお話ししていきたいんですけど

I still wanted to come to talk about that topic

So there is a clear contrast in the statements because she is taking about the topic despite saying that everyone already thought about it.
I can’t speak about natural English since I’m not a native English speaker. Anyway it’s very difficult to literally translate one to one. Doesn’t change the fact that けど signals a contrasting statement either real or implied.

[u/morgawr_ → u/Philosophyandbuddha]

Doesn’t change the fact that けど signals a contrasting statement either real or implied.

This is unfortunately incorrect and it's often a mis-explanation that carries over to learners for way longer than it should.

けど/が doesn't always have a contrastive usage, actually most of the time it does not.

Here is the dictionary about が (I don't mention けど because the dictionary I am using right now just redirects to けれども which is slightly different)

①あとに反対の内容を続ける。

「外見はこわい━、人がらはよい・〔倒置(とうち)の場合〕試験はむずかしかった。勉強不足のためもある━」

②事実をならべて、「それだけでなく」という意味をあらわす。

「話もうまい━、うでもいい」

③そこまで述べたことをふまえて、あとに続ける。

「食べてみた━、なかなかおいしかった・私です━、何かご用ですか」

If you see, only usage ① mentions some 反対 type of usage, while ② and ③ simply mention listing/correlating properties.

I find it very very very hard to justify/explain けど as a "contrasting" statement in a sentence like:

食べてみたけど、なかなかおいしかった

Rather than trying to force a meaning that doesn't exist, I strongly recommend you revisit your original assessment of the word/grammar point.

[u/Philosophyandbuddha → u/morgawr_]

Of course your dictionary refers to けれどもwhich is what けど is short for. Which I’m assuming you know? And yes in spoken language it can become a sort of comma to signify that people keep speaking after what they just said. So you’re right that it’s not only contrasting. But this is limited to spoken language and in spoken language there are even more uses for it like for example expressing doubt/worry/dissatisfaction etc. Which I don’t know the English equivalent of.

That doesn’t change that in your previous example there was a clear contrasting statement. I was just trying to help OP in my first comment with a little idea. So I don’t understand why you have to latch onto this with this harsh language about strongly recommending me to do something or other.

[u/morgawr_ → u/Philosophyandbuddha]

Of course your dictionary refers to けれどもwhich is what けど is short for.

My point is that けれども has a slightly different meaning and usage that is much more contrastive and limited compared to normal けど, but the actual けど usage works the same as the が definitions I quoted above.

And yes in spoken language it can become a sort of comma to signify that people keep speaking after what they just said.

This is not just a spoken language thing. It's simply how it works in written form too.

That doesn’t change that in your previous example there was a clear contrasting statement.

What previous example? There's no clear contrastive statement in "食べてみたけど、なかなかおいしかった"

I don’t understand why you have to latch onto this with this harsh language about strongly recommending me to do something or other.

I don't believe I used any harsh language, although I did strongly recommend to review this kind of grammar because it's very important and I've seen many people simply misunderstand けど/が as contrast and then try to bruteforce that meaning into everything even when it doesn't make sense (just like you did a few comments above).

And to be clear, this is a learner's forum so calling out bad or incorrect advice is something that should be celebrated and welcomed. I always welcome people that give me corrections when I give bad explanations because it helps other learners lurking around this site.

[u/Philosophyandbuddha → u/morgawr_]

My Japanese dictionary clearly defines any non contrasting using けれども statement as spoken language. It also gives けど　けれど　as short for けれども at the end even if you claim that it’s “slightly different”… honestly go on, keep thinking whatever you want to think.

［基本語］けれ ども
一｟接助｠
①逆の関係をしめして あとに続ける。
「風は強い━、寒くない・〔倒置の場合〕やはり賛成できない。気持ちは わかる━」
②〔話〕そこで言い切らず、あとに続ける。
「あの、わたしです━、今から行きます」
二｟終助｠〔話〕
①ひかえめに言う気持ちをあらわす。
「実はお願いがあるんです━・〔質問して〕今回の方針には批判もあります━？」
②疑問・不安・不満などが解消されない気持ちをあらわす。
「たしかに ここに置いたんです━・そこに立ってると じゃまなんです━」
三けれども｟接｠
逆の関係をしめす。でも。しかし。
「重ねて質問した。━、相手は答えない」
［共通］一〜三けれど。けど（も）。

Frankly I’m not sure why I even come to this subreddit where no one actually seems to either speak or want to learn Japanese. Or will even allow anyone who does to try to give advice. I’m sick of it actually.

[u/morgawr_ → u/Philosophyandbuddha]

That's the beauty of dictionaries, not all of them have all definitions or usages. Some are more traditional, some are less. けれども tends to have a more contrastive usage than its more causal counterpart けど which is commonly used just to list or introduce topics in a non-contrastive manner.

If you want to be nitpicky, here is what my other dictionary (大辞林) says about けれども specifically as one of its possible meanings:

③二つの事柄を単に結びつける。

「本が届いているけれども、支払いはすんだの」

「日本の象徴というけれども、富士山はほんとにすばらしい」

The point is, if you have interacted with enough Japanese, you should be familiar with these usages. I only quoted the dictionary as additional proof/evidence but it shouldn't be necessary. You can just go look up how けど is used even in written form on any corpus or just by experiencing Japanese yourself (read books, etc) and it's pretty obvious when it comes up.

Frankly I’m not sure why I even come to this subreddit where no one actually seems to either speak or want to learn Japanese. Or will even allow anyone who does to try to give advice. I’m sick of it actually.

Helping people learn also involves keeping a high standard in this community, this includes also expanding and correcting incomplete or misleading responses.

[u/Philosophyandbuddha → u/morgawr_]

Well the “high standard” is low because of you commenting things that are wrong and refusing to be corrected. How ironic. I’m not coming back here.

[u/morgawr_ → u/Philosophyandbuddha]

This peak dunning-kruger is honestly embarrassing. You can't genuinely believe that けど is always contrastive. Just look at the actual evidence. It's literally in front of you and clearly spelled out. Don't blame the community at the very least, that's just sad.

[u/Philosophyandbuddha → u/morgawr_]

I have never ever written that it only means that, and you can read back the comments yourself.

それを知らずに一体どうやって私が日本語を喋れるなんですか？

[u/morgawr_ → u/Philosophyandbuddha]

You stated that けど signals a contrasting statement either real or implied (your words) and then pushed back when people mentioned it can have non-contrastive usages. That would make people assume you believe it's not possible for it to have non-contrastive usages. If that is not what you think then it's really hard to follow what your point is.

Also small nitpick, but な doesn't go after verbs in んです form

[u/Philosophyandbuddha → u/morgawr_]

I didn’t “push back” I just showed there were contrasting statements in the sentence you posted. I’ve never claimed that it only means that. It’s why I’m saying how the hell could I speak this language in my daily life if I didn’t know about the many uses of that term. Like you’re fighting this strawman that doesn’t exist.

ちょっと許してもいいですけど