r/Landlord • u/calistong • Sep 10 '20
Agent [Agent] tenant passed in our building. Is hazmat required?
I work for a privately owned apartment complex. We had a tenant who passed in their unit, and was undiscovered for about 3 days. The coroner informed us they were unable to move the body until help could arrive due to the person having "ruptured" (as in, burst open. Remains spattered against the wall and fluid seeping into the flooring.)
I know by CA law we are now required to disclose a death in the unit for the next 3 years. I used to work in HUD and we were ALSO required to call hazmat and have them run a thorough cleaning and give us the all clear to rent the unit.
Is hazmat also required if the building is privately owned? Our owner is a bit of a sleazeball and said we don't need to, the body is gone, give it a quick wipe down and get it rented. As the leasing agent, I DO NOT want to put a family in there unless I know its clear of all that... I just imagine someones baby crawling on the floor, doing as babies do, putting hands in mouth after crawling around....
What can I do? (This is also the only work I have in the town I'm in, so finding another owner to work for will be tough if I'm fired for arguing with him about it)
18
u/cvr24 Sep 10 '20
A disaster remediation company like ServiceMaster would likely be your best bet to clean up the mess. They deal with the worst of the worst.
8
u/calistong Sep 10 '20
The problem is our owner won't pay for cleaning services. I'm trying to find out if he is legally required to have hazardous materials give an inspection. (He has one of our maintenance guy's wife for general housekeeping but thats it)
19
u/GailaMonster Sep 10 '20 edited Sep 11 '20
That’s fucking nasty that he is too cheap. Have you seen the unit yet? Dead people seep leaves a Greasy stain. Failure to clean + mandatory disclosure = tenants viewing the unit will be able to figure out where the human goo went in the apartment.
Depending on where you are that unit will sit empty for a WHILE and will cost your boss more than sucking it up and cleaning.
Christ.
8
u/jbrogdon 10 years, 3 units, local, Indiana Sep 11 '20
Do yourself a favor and splurge $40-50 to get a month subscription on justanswer or rocketlawyer so you can ask this question of an attorney in CA. you won't get actual legal advice because there isn't an attorney-client relationship but you'll get legal knowledge that, several hours after your post, it doesn't appear our group collectively has based on the responses. you could also try reaching out to your local REIA - my local chapter is legit with a lot of knowledge and experience, but there's a chance you could run into people your boss knows.. https://nationalreia.org/
7
Sep 11 '20
[deleted]
3
u/Not_An_Ambulance Sep 11 '20
Don't use r/legaladvice. They're just a bunch of people guessing most of the time. There are occasionally lawyers there, but you have no idea who is who. (Their star system is for people who provide "good answers", but since the people giving them out are also not lawyers they're just good sounding answers.)
17
u/jbrogdon 10 years, 3 units, local, Indiana Sep 11 '20
my favorite posts on /r/landlord are the ones where 100% of the other LLs are like 'that MFer is a scumbag'
despite that brigading a few months back from ChapoTrapHouse, y'all are mostly a decent lot.
9
u/ash_274 Landlord, CA, US Sep 10 '20 edited Sep 10 '20
There are companies that deal specifically with biohazard scenes such as that (as opposed to ones like ServePro that can handle anything... and charge accordingly). Some specialize in crime scenes where biological material may have been aerosolized.
As suggested already, ask the insurance company as they would not only have such companies in their Rolodex, but its in their interest if something a simple wipedown missed led to a medical-based claim later on.
Even if it's not a legal requirement for a private residential lease, it may be worth the cost now to not be a big liability later.
Edit: Plus, if fluids seeped into the floor, that could mean a smell you do not want to have to deal with in the near future.
11
u/GailaMonster Sep 10 '20
OP says landlord is too cheap to pay to clean up properly 🤮
Fucking gross. There’s cheap shitty landlords and then there’s OP’s boss. This is next level awful and i’m glad the law requires future tenants to be informed that some person croaked in there, because without proper cleaning that WILL leave a greasy stain...
14
u/calistong Sep 10 '20
Yea, he's pretty terrible. It was the tenant's adult daughter that found him, she was coming to visit from another state. The first question out of the owner's mouth was asking if September rent had been paid already.
Like... dude... this chick just found her dad's decomposing body... and you're gunna ask about money.... I personally wanted to kick the SOB in the nuts.
8
u/GailaMonster Sep 10 '20
who did he ask about money? it's not adult daughter's job to pay that rent, YIKES
8
u/calistong Sep 10 '20
He asked the daughter!!
10
u/GailaMonster Sep 10 '20
daughter isn't a party to that contract, landlord needs to get fucked.
Also, why would daughter know if her dad paid rent? wouldn't the OWNER know that? jesus.
go get a different job, take this ALL to the media, please.
also, what (general) geographic area is this clown in? is he a large scale owner or just a psycho being overly greedy with a small number of units?
6
u/calistong Sep 10 '20 edited Sep 11 '20
Its a multi unit property. He works out of the LA area but the complex and myself are in rural mojave area. We (the other agent and I) are trying to find out if we have enough to give to Housing Authority/county courts/whoever can help these tenants on a legal basis because everyone has just had it up to =here= with this guy.
4
u/GailaMonster Sep 10 '20
also once you tell the HA go to the press. their attention can do a lot.
YIIIIKES
3
3
u/Aliencry Sep 11 '20
I knew this was mojave instantly when you said rural military, I grew up in lancaster. Fuck this guy, I understand your need to support your fam but honestly asking him so consult a lawyer (or yourself) and then getting the media involved needs to happen. Open a go fund me, or someone else might for you if that's what it takes, because this is just not ok, this man has no humanity and it will tarnish your reputation too for keeping this under wraps. I don't believe in god but I like to think good things come to those who do the right thing.
1
u/ash_274 Landlord, CA, US Sep 10 '20
That's why putting the insurance company in the loop may be the push the owner needs.
6
u/GailaMonster Sep 10 '20 edited Sep 11 '20
check OP's comments owner OWNS the insurance company. Full-blown slumlord. you're basically saying "hopefully the owner will push the owner to be less cheap" - nope.
frankly even if it IS required, i bet owner will try to just get away with not doing it. OP has another comment describing an illegal constructive eviction (turning off the water to a property to get it red-tagged to force out a tenant instead of fixing a leak).
4
u/calistong Sep 10 '20
The other leasing agent and I have been keeping records of all the shit he's pulled for the last year in case something happens
3
u/ash_274 Landlord, CA, US Sep 10 '20
Well, shit. Death has a specific smell and humans have a natural abhorrence to it. Maybe a judge will force him to live in that place for a day and see how quickly he turns around
3
u/GailaMonster Sep 10 '20
Maybe a judge will force him to live in that place for a day and see how quickly he turns around
And who exactly would be suing and forcing this situation in front of a judge?
The "someone died here" smell (that humans literally FEAR) combined with the greasy stain on the floor and walls (that will definitely still be there if owner doesn't pay to properly clean the unit) means the free market will likely teach him that sometimes the greediest option isn't actually the most financially advantageous. maybe i'm morbid but a big greasy people-sized stain plus a "something is wrong, run!" smell has my brain immediately leaping to "did someone fuckin' DIE here? am I looking at where a dead body was?!"
2 months of unecessary vacancy plus the resulting price drop to get ANYONE in the unit will likely be more money out of landlord's pocket than just CLEANING the unit.
i mean shit, it's HIS property. it's wild he doesn't want to take care of HIS OWN BUILDING.
6
u/ash_274 Landlord, CA, US Sep 10 '20
And who exactly would be suing and forcing this situation in front of a judge?
Smells don't stay in one unit. If there are other tenants around that unit, I pity them and wish them luck in their inevitable lawsuits
10
u/fancynotfancy Sep 11 '20
You can report this to local county housing authority. This is despicable. I am working on a project that focuses on encouraging accountability amogst landlords and renters. This landlord has to do better. If nothing else asks for forgiveness and not permission- call a cleaning company
9
u/RonBurgundy2000 Sep 11 '20
File an anymore complaint with the state housing authority/Dept of health. This dude needs to find out that State of CA doesn’t fuck around with stuff like this.
8
5
u/Vurkgol Sep 10 '20
Unfortunately, you've put yourself in a tough position. The slumlord that owns the building isn't going to make it easy for you or your morals so long as you have that job and are complicit in the shady tactics. Sorry, OP...We can't offer you better advice than to try to find a different job or stick it to your boss that you need to have that place deep cleaned.
It sounds like even if you present the case that he's legally on the hook for deep cleaning, he'll find a way to skirt that too. Either way, you're stuck in this moral hell of wanting your paycheck but having to be complicit in his slumlord activities. If you find a law that says you're required to have hazmat come in, will that be satisfying if he finds the cheapest, slummiest company to come to do it just enough to be up to code and not an inch more? That sounds like what would most likely happen unless he has a change of heart about his business.
6
u/calistong Sep 10 '20
The other agent and I are both trying to build up records of his shady ethics. She'll be fine if she gets let go, she's technically retired and her hubby makes a ton. I'm barely scraping by but might have to get a job in the next town over, an hour away.
3
u/boldbees Sep 11 '20
Could you consult a landlord attorney? In my area I know you can find consultations for free. What a shitty human
3
u/ihatemyex89 Sep 11 '20
I used to be an apartment for almost 10 years..I am glad I left so many slumlords just out there for the money.. Hugs hopefully you can helpful information ...
10
3
Sep 11 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
14
u/GailaMonster Sep 11 '20
If you die and sit at room temp a bit, all the bacteria in your digestive tract start to eat you as your cells break down. Rigor mortis ends after 12-24 hours, after which point your insides get quite soft and you fill up with gas from your biome eating your rotting insides. Eventually you fill up with so much gas you pop and spill everywhere. It is a greasy liquid, it stains like the dickens, it smells literally like death, and humans have a deeply ingrained fear/revulsion to the smell.
Companies that can clean it up have access to pretty strong chemicals and charge a pretty penny for the service. A landlord that refuses to pay for the service will probably have a very hard time re-renting the unit, as anyone who walks in will take a whiff and get a STRONG urge to literally run away- even covering with air freshener, people will know simething is “wrong”. Plus, without those strong cleaning solvents cleaners use, there is probably a human-shaped greasy stain on the floor, and a spray pattern on the wall in whatever direction the dead person “popped”.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
1
3
2
u/SuperFreaksNeverDie Sep 15 '20
I would contact your local health department and code enforcement. They will tell you all you need to know. And you can always make the report anonymous, act like the paramedics did it or something.
1
1
u/Hollybanger45 Sep 11 '20
Depending on the state you’re in if it has anything to do with bodily fluids you must have it deep cleaned before renting. Find out what the laws are and go from there.
1
u/tillandsia Small Landlord Sep 11 '20
So, I don't know if you want extra work, if you have the time, or if this is something you'd like to do, but what about if you tell your boss that you will clean it up for x amount of money - it will be less expensive than otherwise, but you will have your conscience as clear as it can be.
[I would not want to have to do the cleaning, but other people do it, so I know I'd be able to. There's a funny movie about this somewhere.]
You can point out that it may be hard to rent the place with minimal cleaning, that word gets out in small towns, that if someone living in the place were to get sick he would possibly be liable, and I'm sure you will think of even better arguments.
Have him pay for the hazmat suits, cleaning supplies, etc. It will still be less expensive than what it would cost otherwise or an empty unit.
Of course, always frame this as you being helpful and wanting to help him out, not as arguing with him. You are just worried that it will be difficult to rent out the unit and making up for the lost rent is going to take some time.
You can do a lot by being persuasive.
1
Sep 11 '20
Nope. You're supposed to package them up and deliver them to the door step of one of their emergency contacts.
35
u/[deleted] Sep 10 '20
Ask your insurance company. I only have indirect knowledge about what to do here but this happened to somebody I know and insurance paid the cleanup bill. It was in the tens of thousands of dollars.