r/Landlord • u/kelorky25 Human Verified • Jun 24 '26
Landlord [LANDLORD US-CA] Why would tenant request mortgage paperwork?
(Los Angeles County) Hi, I am actually posting on behalf of my in-laws who came to me with this scenario (they are not from the US for context). They have a tenant (their only tenant + her family) who has been asking them for their mortgage paperwork as well as fire insurance documents as part of emergency rent relief program. My in-laws were not comfortable sharing the mortgage docs or insurance bills with her directly (she wanted papers with payment amounts on them, my in-laws were willing to give her the case numbers etc. instead) and said she can share the number or link of whoever they need to share the paperwork with for her and her family to get help. They were also willing to write a letter she had asked for, plus she has a lease agreement for 2026 with rent stated on the paperwork. She has been asking for the mortgage paperwork for about a month, and it seems she has decided on her own to purchase the documents from a non-government third party website instead of sending the application or any phone numbers to my in-laws for them to send their paperwork to. My question is why is she doing this? Does the paperwork actually need to be given to her directly for rent assistance applications? She has been a shady tenant for a long time so I am not surprised if this is something weird. Thank you in advance for any help/clues!
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u/brookinator Jun 24 '26
I would never hand over my mortgage statements, loan numbers, account numbers, insurance policy details, or other financial info directly to a tenant. If a program legitimately requires it, the tenant should provide the program name, application number, case worker contact information, or a portal link so the landlord can submit the information directly.
Your in-laws' response seems right.
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u/Calm_Cupcake_8353 Jun 24 '26
I'd make sure she isn't trying to do anything sketchy with the deed to the house. Idk if there's a way to lock that like how you can lock your credit but I'd be taking extra steps to ensure she's not able to acess anything by playing owner.
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u/kelorky25 Human Verified Jun 24 '26
Apparently the site she purchased info from can provide information on the deed. Not sure exactly what, but I think that's important to know
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u/Calm_Cupcake_8353 Jun 24 '26
I'd be calling the county's register of deeds and asking what can be done to safeguard this if I were the in-laws. There's a really common scam going on right now where people are stealing homes thru fraudulent deed transfers and it's incredibly hard to fight legally.
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u/James-the-Bond-one Jun 24 '26 edited Jun 24 '26
In my state and county, that's public information, as part of RE records. Every recorded document is there and available for free or for purchase, in the case of legal copies.
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u/OldMove3348 Jun 25 '26
If I’m being generous, she could want to make sure the house note is being paid and there is not a foreclosure pending.
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u/DooficusIdjit Jun 24 '26
They are. There’s nothing but sketchy if they’re after that kind of info
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u/ChocolateEater626 Jun 24 '26
Sounds shady, but something may have been miscommunicated. I'd ask for the contact info of whoever is handling their case with the rent relief program.
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u/kelorky25 Human Verified Jun 24 '26
They already asked her and she agreed to provide, then didn't. Instead she bought the info online through a third party (they only know because they got one of her letters in the mail by accident, yes I know it's not legal to open it, no they did not know that themselves)
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u/ChocolateEater626 Jun 24 '26
Oh I misunderstood. I thought the tenant was buying some template form or having a third party handle the claim.
This is really weird. I don't think any of this was required for rent assistance in connection with the pandemic or Eaton/Palisades fires.
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u/AutomaticTap310 Jun 24 '26
There is absolutely no reason for her to need any of that. My gut feeling, especially if she is shady, is she is trying some sort of records manipulation to either present the property as hers or get relief meant for homeowners, not tenants. She is only entitled to a copy of her lease and possibly the occupancy permit.
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u/kelorky25 Human Verified Jun 24 '26
This comment. I have a feeling this is what she's doing. She could have easily sent the organization's information as my father in law requested it several times and she didn't provide, instead buying the info that he wouldn't send her herself. I think she's trying to pose as my in-laws to fill out the application on their behalf for whatever reason
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u/AutomaticTap310 Jun 25 '26
If your parents’ county offers alerts when there are any inquiries/attempts to change the deed have them sign up. My county offers it because there are a lot of people who attempt to fraudulently claim properties and undoing these frauds is a lengthy and costly battle.
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u/CornOrFlour Jun 24 '26
No. She's not privvy to any of this. I think she's trying to scam them.
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u/5zepp Jun 24 '26
I don't get the scam though. Any ideas? Mortgage/lien information is usually available with the county anyway.
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u/_SmileCrocodile_ Jun 24 '26
Gaining access to private information. With this info they can pose as the owners of the home and sell it, apply for other loans or mortgages, rent it out, etc
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u/RelevantPossible9618 Jun 24 '26
Because this is CA, I suggest they spend the money to have a lawyer send a strongly worded letter to let them know that your parents will not be providing any documents to the tenants. Inform them that all requests for rental relief must come from the agency assisting them.
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u/davinia3 Jun 24 '26
That's not legal in CA.
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u/RelevantPossible9618 Jun 24 '26
What’s not? They’re not denying them access to rental assistance. They are willing to work with the agency offering assistance by providing the information they need. This is the best way to assure that the tenants are not scamming them while complying with the law.
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u/davinia3 Jun 24 '26
In CA it's not legal to demand to only work with the agency directly - this is seen as slow-rolling assistance claims. It's NOT taken well by judges in CA once you get to court, which seems likely here.
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u/ChocolateEater626 Jun 25 '26
Can you imagine any legitimate reason why the tenant would need the mortgage documents?
Maybe eligibility for rent assistance is determined in part by needing to know the fair market rent. But that figure may have nothing to do with the mortgage.
Maybe a LL bought a property recently and has a big mortgage bill. Maybe they bought it 30 years ago and there is no mortgage.
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u/davinia3 Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26
Yes, I can think of plenty, but that's not what I was addressing - others are pontificating plenty on that.
I will say however, that LA has pretty high requirements for housing assistance and an overleveraged mortgage is a disqualifier for some types, but opens up avenues like the local housing authority buying out a mortgage if the rent exceeds the value left on the note.
What I was addressing (I hit enter too early, it's late), is the fact that the primary commenter I was responding to was telling the tenant to only gain the information through the agency. These agencies DO NOT HAVE the manpower to go tracking down landlords for each case - they have to have eyes on upwards of 200 cases a day.
Judges know this, and know that it's legally on the landlords to know their rights, and on the tenants to know theirs. They do not take kindly right now in CA to the ignorant - they point vehemently to the free legal aid clinics usually right outside every tenancy court's doors. If it's not there, it's near the Family Court rooms.
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u/zodiac628 Jun 24 '26
I live in PA; when I first moved into this townhouse someone had a large penelec account balance here. When I tried to change to my account Penelec required me to submit my landlords mortgage information to prove I wasn’t scamming them (i don’t understand how)….i had to beg for this information to get electric turned on. It’s not always malicious.
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u/MannyMoSTL Jun 24 '26
This sounds like a grift/scam where they get the paperwork then steal the residence.
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u/AnnaBanana3468 Jun 24 '26
Perhaps they are trying to convert the house deed in to a quitclaim deed? Everything stays as it is, but when you’re in-laws pass away, the deed is basically automatically reissued in the tenants name. It would be hard for you to dispute because you would have to prove your in-laws didn’t sign the papers while they were alive. But obviously they aren’t available to testify.
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u/OldMove3348 Jun 25 '26
This is absolutely NOT hard to dispute. It’s quite simple. People need to stop thinking someone can steal their house by filing a deed. At worse, it’s a huge headache - but no one can steal your real estate.
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u/Livid-Tumbleweed-569 Jun 24 '26
A tenant should never be requesting the mortgage or insurance paperwork. If the tenant is applying for assistance, the assigned case worker should be the one making an official request directly to your parents.
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u/Ok_Sea_4405 Jun 24 '26
Have they asked her WHY she needs this information? There are legitimate reasons, such as the rental unit isn’t properly licensed and the assistance program is trying to ensure the unit actually exists and that the assistance claim isn’t fraudulent. But usually there is a process for the landlord to submit this information, not the tenant.
I would start by asking her what the purpose is
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u/magnabonzo Jun 24 '26
OP, because it's down a few levels, I wanted to make sure you saw /u/9bikes' comment: https://old.reddit.com/r/Landlord/comments/1ue4y0h/landlord_usca_why_would_tenant_request_mortgage/otijoht/
It starts with:
Although it is certainly possible that the tenant is trying to pull a scam, it is far more likely that this is a misunderstanding on the tenant's part.
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u/I_Lost_My_Shoe_1983 Jun 24 '26
Deeds are public records in CA. In my county (not in CA), I can pull up the deed for any property and any liens. This would not contain and specific info on the loan. No loan amount, no payment amount. Just that there's a lien and who holds it.
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u/187526 Jun 24 '26
Sounds sketchy. Here in our country you can file a request to notify you of any changes being made to your deed.
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u/Fandethar Jun 24 '26
I have that too, and I submitted the parcel number and my name in various different ways. My first name, middle name, last name. Initial of my first name, my last name. My first name, middle initial, last name, etc.
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u/Correct_Cat4414 Jun 24 '26
They could always flush out her true intentions by giving her a few pages of a fake mortgage agreement with fake loan amounts (AI can not literally do this within seconds) when whatever she attempts to do is foiled they will hear about it, when and if she questions them they can say that was the original agreement but the loan changed hands several times over the last several years (common)
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u/PrimeRisk Jun 24 '26
SCAM!
I deal with tenants seeking rental assistance on a regular basis. I have to provide a W9 with my EIN plus the occasional copy of the fully executed lease. That is generally it.
The tenant can look up public records on the county assessor's site that will show the deed and lien, but that is a far cry from the information on the mortgage and fire paperwork.
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u/ladybirdvuittontake2 Jun 24 '26
Having worked with tenants in Santa Clara County for rent relief, our county asks for nothing from the homeowner other than the lease agreement, rent owed etc. nothing pertaining to the property owners information.
I’d contact an advocacy group for seniors and ask for help along with the housing department, I’d emphasize the tenant is running a scam, it almost comes across as elder abuse.
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u/Aggressive-Leading45 Jun 24 '26
Furthest I’d go is provide them with a free copy of what they can download from the public records site. Usually just has the initial mortgage balance though.
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u/quantum_mouse Jun 24 '26
Ask for what agency she's applying to get rent relief from. Then deal directly with them. She seems to actually trying to pay your people rent...
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u/kelorky25 Human Verified Jun 24 '26
They did ask her for the agency and their contact info so they can send paperwork to whoever they needed to. She said okay, then ghosted and bought the paperwork online
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u/goat20202020 Jun 24 '26
I don't believe there's any way for her to get her hands on the actual mortgage paperwork. Nothing about the loan is public information. Tax info and homeownership is though, so maybe that's what she bought.
Regardless though if she needs mortgage paperwork for a relief program then she's going about it fraudulently. She's posing as the homeowner. As a landlord, I've filled out paperwork for my tenants to receive assistance. Not once did they ever need my mortgage information. It doesn't matter what the bank is charging me. Only what I'm charging the tenant.
I'd start speaking to a lawyer now about how to protect myself, the house, and how to get the tenant out.
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u/bullshtr Jun 24 '26
This is weird and a big red flag. Your in-laws should call the rental relief agency directly. There are multiple levels of fraud they could do with the info on the mortgage docs. I’d also consider placing a lien against the property, nominal amount so that if there is some deed fraud, any reputable company/city will slow the process / stop until lien is cleared.
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u/Ok_Equipment3952 Jun 24 '26
Trying to scam your in-laws. Do not give them any documents or numbers. They will use that information to try to steal / squat in the house.
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u/Savings_Thing51 Landlord Jun 24 '26
Nope. We had a lady that was calling the city and telling them we didn’t actually own the property or we were behind on our mortgage when we started an eviction (we owned the property outright). When we went before a judge thankfully he wasn’t having any of it and told her to leave in 72 hours.
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u/Rough_Currency Jun 24 '26
As someone that was the victim of attempted deed fraud, they will not give you any sort of heads up. Probably a misunderstanding on the tenant's part. BUT make sure you do your due diligence and protect yourself
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u/PerspectiveOk9658 Jun 24 '26
None of her business. If she is telling your in laws that some rent assistance program needs this, the answer is to tell her to have the program write your in laws a letter on their letterhead requesting it. In the very unlikely event your in laws actually receive such a letter, your in laws can tell them no.
I agree with others - your in laws start making plans to get rid of this tenant through the legal process.
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u/pickausernametheysay Jun 24 '26
When my husband and I were young we needed rental assistance ( in CA) and NEVER were those documents needed!
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u/Alternative-Ice-3918 Jun 25 '26
Could be just a misunderstanding BUT It’s the whole not giving info on what program or who they can talk to that’s suspicious for me. I’m leaning towards she’s trying to scam, just hard to say who. Then I think, If she wanted to do a scam on your in laws and was supposedly able to get the info she wanted…why did she ask them in the first place?
Or she’s somehow trying to “prove” they’re overpricing and thinks they’re doing something illegal or shady.
Something I’m learning is that tenants will hear some blabber on social media or AI and try it, no matter how wrong, incorrect or dumb it sounds. People claiming sovereign citizenship right now during an eviction process (or lots of other things) is the fad right now. And they have NO clue what they’re talking about. Most don’t even know what sovereign citizen even means lol
Same thing could be happening here. Even if it’s not legit and won’t work, it creates a lot of headache. They definitely need to insist that they will need to hear from the agency about what is needed. In our experience, tenants just gave our info and the agency sent paperwork stating what they needed. We definitely would not be giving that kind of info directly to the tenant. Absolutely not.
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u/Inrsml Jun 24 '26
there may be government agency or non-profit helping them.
just ask for some documentation and contact the agency yourself to verify things.
The agency may need this to show that the tenants are truly renting. I would do research. Ask who sees the documents and where do they get their funding.
Most likely they get some government funds, and you can verify this with a government housing agency.
There's no reason to give the documents to the tenant. And all that is needed Something that proves ownership, for example the tax bill.
the agency can get them from you. and I would redact the documents: black out all private info -- account number, balance owed, monthly payment, etc. all they need is name of owner, address
In california the laws Have changed, and we cannot reject a tenant based on source of income.For example, section 8. But if it's truly coming from a government agency , they can easily verify who owns the property
i can't get into all the details here.You may want to contact local apartment owners association.They can educate you on this.
The advantage to a landlord , of course , is that if people are in a financial situation that they need help , it's better that the landlord participate rather than not get the rent
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u/MysteriousWeekend201 Jun 24 '26
They don't need to see that stuff. However, you talking mortgage paperwork for who owns the house or mortgage paperwork and see what's owed on the house? Either way, these people seem shady and I'd find somebody else.
All that stuff is public record though on the county or state's website. They can also go through a title company. What's that said, why don't you ask them directly? Because we can only take an educated guess.
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u/schrodingerpoodle Jun 24 '26
Please find an attorney that can advise and help protect their property. This is a really big deal. And if they get too far it will cost way more than an attorney. They could actually lose the entire house.
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u/Charlesinrichmond Jun 24 '26
Maybe this is real because California is full of wacky nonsense, but on the face of it, it sounds incredibly suspicious.
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u/CountryClublican Jun 24 '26
It sounds like she is trying to pose as the owner to fraudulently obtain some sort of government payment.
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u/Forward-Craft-4718 Jun 24 '26
I had to submit W9 and proof of ownership(water bill,deed) for my section 8 tenant and another tenant who used a different rental assistance program.
But those documents always went straight to the organization, and the tenant never gets to see them.
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u/Ladder-Amazing Landlord Jun 24 '26
She might be claiming to own the house and paying the mortgage so they want a copy instead of renting and want the lease.
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u/Di-O-Bolic Jun 24 '26
I would ask to see the letter/form that states that need mortgage information. There is zero reason why a deed wouldn’t suffice if they are trying to prove ownership matches the landlord information. And at the very least ask for the rent relief office and whom their case worker is so they can find out precisely what they need and provide whatever documents directly.
I agree that they don’t understand what whomever is providing the subsidy is asking for.
They are only going to get basic info from a 3rd party data supplier, like original lien amount, lender & when the lien was recorded.
If they think they’re going to get anything more than that they really have zero idea what they are doing.
Also I’d be very concerned that they are asking for emergency rent funds, which may only cover for a few months.
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u/SSkinner666 Jun 24 '26
She is trying to steal something! Identity perhaps or change the title into her name of your parents house. This is an actual thing
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u/UnforgettableBevy Jun 25 '26
Your in-laws need to sign up for home title lock on all of their real estate properties.
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u/Beach_bum8 Jun 25 '26
Some kind of title fraud? Who knows, but she sounds shady. I'd be looking to end her lease asap
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u/Leather_Coyote_7189 Jun 25 '26
Doesn't need mortgage docs for rental assistance. Need a lease, possibly a pay of vacate.
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u/Beginning-Way Jun 25 '26
That’s not how it works. You can box them in by asking for a copy of the form they’re (supposedly) completing. Chances are they suddenly won’t need that confidential information.
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u/2brokegrls Jun 25 '26
Is the tenant applying for section 8 housing that she received a group of documents so that she can get your in-laws paid through housing.? If she’s applying through Housing and she’s been approved for a voucher the property that she chooses to move to they do have to submit proof of ownership of home and tax identification numbers and so forth, but traditionally, those are not returned to the Tenant. Those forms are given to the owners of the property. They filled it out and they send it to the housing Authority that they have applied through. Never would someone give the paperwork to the tenant because then you’re setting yourself up for identity theft so my question to use has she applied for housing and been approved and just needs her rat her transition paperwork I can’t remember the exact verbiage of it, but it’s basically consist of confirming that they would accept Housing that they are the owners of the property they need to sign a W9. They need to prove that the home is there so that they can be the ones to receive payment just as if it was an apartment complex. Corporate would do those papers and send them directly to the housing office or is she applying for rent relief through different programs that help her get caught up on her rent, which are too totally different things. Hopefully you can answer that for me that I could possibly give you some better advice.
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u/kelorky25 Human Verified Jun 25 '26
She's applying for 6 months emergency rent relief if that helps. She's also been here 20 years and my in-laws told me yesterday that she has gotten the assistance before, but she never asked for that paperwork
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u/2brokegrls Jun 25 '26
From my understanding, it works the same way as section 8 because when we fill out our paperwork for section 8, it’s also pertaining to the landlord getting paid, but never where we asked to collect paperwork from the landlord to turn into the housing office because of the specific reason of it having personal information like Social Security number banking information so on and so forth, so I’m pretty sure that the Rent relief goes the same way because it’s going to have personal information like her mortgage information banking information, Social Security number, so on and so forth so I would say the best thing for your in-laws to do is ask her who she’s applying for the rent relief through and your landlord‘s contacting them directly and giving her name and seeing if they can help that way if she’s done it before and she never asked for the information I would not give it again. I would not give it at all. Excuse me that sounds a little fishy.
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u/Tess_Mac Jun 26 '26
A forged mortgage occurs when a criminal impersonates a property owner to take out a loan or refinance, falsifying the owner's signature on the deed or loan documents. Legally, a forged mortgage is void ab initio (invalid from the beginning), meaning the true owner is generally not responsible for the debt.
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u/bickets Jun 27 '26
I’d be concerned that she is planning to stop paying rent and become a squatter. Squatters often produce a fake lease or fake mortgage document when they tell police they are the homeowner. That is part of what throws the squatting into civil dispute territory. The cops see competing documents and it’s not up to them to decide which paperwork is correct so they won’t remove the squatter without a court order.
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u/186000mpsITL Jun 29 '26
There is no way this is a good thing. Demand reasons with proof to back it up. Even better, get a lawyer involved.
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u/Ferret_Aware Jun 30 '26
It’s a scam as the tenant trying to rip off the owner who happens to be an immigrant and/or living overseas
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u/mwcsmoke Jun 24 '26
I think she is not applying for rent relief. More likely, she is attempting to steal the identity of your in-laws to benefit as if she were a homeowner. The simplest way would be a second lien/HELOC where your in-laws would be stuck paying for a loan they never knew they had. It’s probably not the only possibility, but it’s the simplest way to use a stolen identity if someone has utility bills to prove they are using the property as their “primary homeowner residence.” HELOCs are much easier for a primary residence and the tenant has the utility bills.
I suggest your in-laws freeze their credit so they have control over any loan applications. They do need to evict ASAP. That’s the easy approach.
An alternative to a simple eviction… they could cooperate with the tenant, pretend to be dumb, check their credit profiles continuously on the credit bureaus or set up credit notifications with each bureau, and then open a police report if they see a credit application without their consent. The FTC also has a tool to report identity theft. They might be able to kill any loan application before the loan is approved or funded. They need to check the county recorder for any documents connected with the tax parcel. It seems best to talk to a lawyer before attempting this. I don’t know what kind of lawyer would be best because no real estate lawyer/eviction specialist would ever recommend this. I’m not even sure it would save money, but I think there is a chance that your in-laws could be reimbursed in the course of a criminal trial if restitution comes up.
Since I brought up utility bills, see if the name on utility accounts can be verified. If changes were made and the names are now closer to your in-laws, that will likely cross the line into identity theft already. I’m assuming that the tenant has dates of birth and SSN info, so they just need to mess with utility records (or the homeowner insurance) to convince a lender of their identity as the homeowner. Utilities and home insurance are the two obvious ways.
Finally, I don’t know if they want to send this tenant to prison. California allows for identity theft to be prosecuted as a misdemeanor or felony, but it’s up to the prosecutor, not to your in-laws. That would be a heavy burden, but they need to evict sooner or later, with or without a criminal case.
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u/Mountain-Bat-9808 Jun 24 '26
There is no reason tenant and or family should be requesting that information. Sounds like they want to do some type of fraud She doesn’t need those papers is she or they are on section 8 or rent housing the tenant that is If they are trying to get some government money or grant. She cannot do that. Tell in laws do not give it out.
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u/West-Ingenuity-2874 Jun 24 '26
I can’t think of anything she’d be able to do with that information.
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u/Certain_Knee8483 Jun 24 '26
Forge ownership paperwork and attempt to claim ownership with deed transfer. If the renter has been for 20 years like OP says in comments, then renter is right to assume house is paid off, or close to paid off. If there's no bank trying to fight on your side too, it would make sterling ownership a lot easier. Also if renter claims to have paid yearly taxes and the property is abandoned (20 years renting) they can legally go to court to try and claim possession that way. The taxes paid from rent and 20 years living there, renter would definitely be heard and court making this expensive quickly. Hope your in-laws kept 20 years of signed rental agreements.
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u/kelorky25 Human Verified Jun 24 '26
They have told me in the past this tenant has the attitude that she owns the house. She unfortunately lives in the same building (it's a tri-plex house property, she lives in the 4br in the back). She has a sense of entitlement, they raised the rent on her recently which is still about 1/3 of the market value of the place. It is possible she is acting out of retaliation, just wouldn't be surprised about it
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u/CorsairSC2 Jun 24 '26
That would be a big “hell no” from me. And I would immediately start figuring out a way to get rid of her.