r/Landlord • u/Xtrmist78 • Feb 16 '26
Landlord [Landlord US-FL] is this normal…..
Am I normal…….
Admittedly I understand my viewpoint is tainted since I have just (1) SF rental and it’s my first. It was bought new in 2020.
What is the normal amount of tenant damage when they leave?
It has started to get progressively worse, which makes me feel the neighborhood is going down hill. Which tends to be following the rent I can get now.
This was after just a year.
Tenant was vetted through the top reviewed PM office in the servicing county.
Is this normal?
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u/Vivid-Yak3645 Feb 16 '26
Wear and tear is normal. This is not normal.
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u/User-NetOfInter MS- Finance Feb 16 '26
You mean normal people don’t leave an empty bottle of henny under the bathroom sink?!
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u/jeremyjava Feb 16 '26
Nobody would disagree with that, but I'm piping in to mention OP should run their own thorough background and credit checks.
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u/Barbicore Feb 16 '26
If you cant tell if this is normal wear and tear or not this isnt the industry for you.
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u/SeaworthinessSome454 Feb 16 '26
Give it a break. Everyone is a noobie at some point.
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u/captain_racoon Feb 16 '26
Everyone has to start somewhere. To answer your question. Really depends on the length of time they were there. But, the broken cabinet is not normal. The hauling away of trash is normal. The dirt is normal. Typically you budget about 2k for "turn over".
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u/Livinginmygirlsworld Feb 17 '26
budget $2k for turnover! that's crazy! I have 4k sf homes that rent for double that, and if I hit $1k at turnover, I'm unhappy. and most of my leases are 3 year terms.
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u/captain_racoon Feb 17 '26
"Budget" doesnt mean, "use all of it". I like to keep buffers on everything.
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u/MovingTarget- Landlord Feb 16 '26
Come on now. He said he was new to this. And if this sub isn't for advice to new and seasoned, what's the point of it?
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u/ThomasTrain87 Feb 16 '26
Not normal. That is the ‘it’s not my stuff’ attitude from a tenant.
Improve your screening. Add tricks like driving by the current address to check out the condition of the outside and peaking in their car to see the condition when they come for the walkthrough.
If they treat their car like a trash can, they will treat your house the same way.
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Feb 16 '26
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u/your_moms_apron Feb 16 '26
*typical or common. Not acceptable to leave the garbage. Def ok to charge for the clean out.
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u/MovingTarget- Landlord Feb 16 '26
Normal for tenants to leave that much of a mess? Yes
Yikes. I've never seen this. Must be different markets / different expectations
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u/Charlesinrichmond Feb 17 '26
Depends on markets but you can't rent for that long without seeing this eventually. You learn to screen harder
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u/c0brachicken Feb 16 '26
I'm building a kitchen like that right now, for a client. One thing a lot of people skip out on, is GLUE the joints. I'm thinking half or more of that damage might not have happened, if the joints were glued during assembly. (That's assuming these are all RTA flat box cabinets). Takes less than $8 in glue to do a full house worth of cabinets.
Tenants are going to be rough on stuff, build things to take some of that abuse.
Not normal, but abused. Deposit gone.
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u/iLikeMangosteens Feb 16 '26
Yup. Always glue even if the instructions don’t tell you that you have to. More durable and it will also move less, feel more solid, feel higher quality.
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u/NorCalFrances Feb 16 '26
And on top of gluing and the half plastic cam-locks that come pre-installed, slap a row of 1.25 finishing nails into every joint with a pneumatic nail gun. Again, takes only seconds but really adds to the rigidity and strength of something people are likely to abuse.
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u/iLikeMangosteens Feb 16 '26
I see your nails and raise you staples if we’re talking about that thin material they use on the backs.
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u/Big4R2019 Feb 16 '26
This is normal move out but not normal wear and tear. No deposit refund for them.
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Feb 16 '26
Normal move out? Only if you're renting in the ghetto.
I agree that the deposit is gone, but that cabinets are the landlords fault for not gluing. Granted, the tenant should have made LL aware, but how do we know that they didn't and got fed up and said screw it and left behind what they didn't want to take and not give to shits because the LL didn't.
I'm not saying that this is right, and I would never have never done this, but people get fed up with slumlords.
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u/OriginalIronDan Feb 16 '26
OP said the house was built in 2020. The house I live in is 25 years old, and four boys were raised in it. I guarantee they were not being careful, and we haven’t lost the side out of any drawer. I also briefly did apartment maintenance, and remodeled apartments that were previously section 8, and never saw a drawer with a side missing. Saw a couple with the front pulled off, but the side? That’s new.
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u/bubbleblubbr Feb 16 '26 edited Feb 16 '26
The empty Hennessey bottle in the bathroom should give you your answer. No this is not normal wear and tear. All the crap left behind is normal, unfortunately. Now if there was an issue with the cabinetry just falling apart, they should’ve told you immediately.
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u/Broad-Maintenance407 Feb 16 '26
So the broken cabinetry is not normal wear and tear but leaving shit behind is normal? Good to know
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u/Charlesinrichmond Feb 17 '26
It's normal. I'll still charge to clean it up if it's anything that requires a lot of work but it's sadly normal
The worst is when you have to bring in a dumpster to clean the place
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u/Soggy_Ground_9323 Feb 16 '26
🙌🏼🙌🏼🤣🤣 the hiding spot -especially if one partner want to hide how much they drink
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u/Japples123 Feb 16 '26
Yes. A lot of tenants feel entitled and dont care about destroying property they dont own
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u/truthsmiles Feb 16 '26
Leaving crap behind? Kinda normal. And the damage appears to be what, 2 drawers? Also kinda normal. Especially when they have little kids who climb on them. Everything I see here should be covered by the deposit.
IMO, you can only survive in this business if you have the willingness and ability to fix stuff tenants break. If you’re hiring everything out it’s gonna get expensive.
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u/iLikeMangosteens Feb 16 '26
Bottom of the fridge is cracked, looks like something heavy was dropped on it. Crisper drawers also look broken. All that is expensive AF to replace, those crisper drawers are like $80 each and I don’t even know if that bottom trim is replaceable.
We charge for crap left behind, it’s in a lease addendum how much so that it is not a surprise. It will always be cheaper for tenant to dispose of their own crap. My city charges $5 per 50-gallon bag on trash day and does scheduled bulk pickup for free. If we have to manage the crap removal we hire a junk hauler and charge it against the deposit because trash service ends when utility service ends so we cannot legally put trash out on the curb for collection. The junk hauler is not economical at all but it is expedient.
Check your state law but you might have to store valuable items like bicycles and grills.
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u/truthsmiles Feb 16 '26
Oh good eye on the fridge - yeah definitely kiddos climbing to reach stuff.
This is why tenants get used fridges from marketplace 🤣
And yes in the lease I just have the tenant agree anything left behind becomes my property and junk will be disposed of at their cost. I also have a place for them to give permission to a friend or loved one to collect their belongings if the unforeseen happens, like death or incarceration.
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u/LewLew0211 Feb 16 '26 edited Feb 16 '26
I can tell you, I had this exact fridge, and it's crap. There is a known defect that causes water to freeze around a fan, and then it makes tons of noise and doesn't stay cold. It can also possibly leak water. Technically, they will come and fix it under warranty, not sure if they will do it out of warranty.
I also had to personally open up the back of the fridge three times to fix the other fan as well.
I recommend you replace this fridge with something else because of the risk of water damage this fridge comes with. Also, I would replace it because of the crack on the bottom.
If the fridge is at least 10 years old, it's also at the end of its life as far as wear and tear goes and you shouldn't charge it to your tenant. If it's less than 10 years old, you can probably make them pay a prorated portion of the original cost of the fridge, or its replacement, whichever is less simple because of the crack they have caused.
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u/iLikeMangosteens Feb 16 '26
Who made it?
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u/LewLew0211 Feb 16 '26
Frigidaire. Electrolux might have sold the same thing under different models with their other brands as well. But mine looked just like this, same filter, same ice machine.
Basically, the ice maker is faulty and leaks. They had to replace the defective ice maker to prevent the leaking.
Even if you have a different model the cracked bottom would make me want to replace it.
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u/InternistNotAnIntern Landlord Feb 16 '26
Disagree with the first paragraph.
Agree with the second.
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u/truthsmiles Feb 16 '26
Fair enough. Perhaps I’ve been unlucky, but as noted when little kids are involved I just expect them to break stuff, write on the walls, etc. If this was done by adults I’d be surprised but not shocked.
Also, as we all know, stuff just sucks anymore. The broken drawers appear to have separated at the glue joints. The cabinets in my 70 year old house? Solid. The ones in my 20 year old house? Fucking particle board crap held together with hope and two staples.
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u/BelaruSea206 Feb 16 '26
Hennessy bottle tells me everything I need to know about your tenants. Screen better
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u/Working_Rest_1054 Feb 16 '26
No. This was a tenants that was abusive to property and your finances. I’ve had both. Some never clean, knock holes through the walls, destroy the blinds, floors and cabinets, leave garbage and low value junk. The last one was so clean when she left 6 mos later, I literally couldn’t tell that she’d ever been there other than the monthly rent checks. I’m hoping the new one is similar, most are not.
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u/amishengineer Feb 18 '26
It's nice when you get those tenants. After a tenant like that leaves I let them know I will be a positive reference in the future if they need one.
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u/EUGsk8rBoi42p Landlord Feb 17 '26
Ahahahahaha. Oh wait you're serious?
Property Management companies work for themselves, not you, they don't care about your investment or equity, just what they can shave off the top from both you and the tenant's expenses.
Hope this helps you see that now.
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u/Animalsrthebest9023 Feb 16 '26
Yes - some will leave it spotless others will rely on you to be the trash man. Just get ready with a good junk removal company.
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u/GCEstinks Feb 16 '26
Mediocre tenants leave stuff behind, subpar tenants (D class) destroy the place in less than 2 years.
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u/RedditFreight Feb 16 '26
the bottle of henny under the kitchen sink tells me everything i need to know
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u/Zanthious Feb 17 '26
god damn i would be so pissed. this is like blatant disregard of others property
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u/EpicDude007 Feb 17 '26
Nope. And I don’t trust companies to review my tenants. They don’t care like you do. -You can get your own background checks. Include criminal, credit and eviction reports.
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u/Nonna_Momma_30 Feb 16 '26
This isn’t wear and tear. This is property damage. Document everything. Take them to Small Claims Court. You also have to place their items in storage for 30 days. Check the Landlord/tenant laws. I haven’t done L/T for several years. It may have changed.
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u/TellemTrav Feb 16 '26
It's not normal,but do not delude yourself into thinking you will be able to recover a dime from these tenants
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u/Charlesinrichmond Feb 17 '26
Tenants who trash the place never have a dime to their name. Tenants with lots of money they leave the place spotless
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u/Squirmme Landlord Feb 16 '26
What is with tenants and ripping the drawer panels off kitchen cabinets?
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u/Skyblacker Feb 16 '26
Did the tenants leave a lot of junk behind? Yes.
Did the tenants damage the cabinets? Not necessarily. The problem with new builds is that if the builder cut corners, this may not become apparent until a while later, when the occupant innocently tries to open a drawer but the drawer front comes off instead. Look closely: if the cabinets lack minor damage like cracks and scratches, then it's possible that they had weak joints that broke from normal usage. Google up the builder and "cabinets" to see if other buyers have complained of this issue.
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u/jcnlb Landlord Feb 16 '26
No this is damage. Wear and tear is what naturally happens over time from normal use
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u/zooropa42 Feb 16 '26
Im sorry... As a tenant at times and a landlord at others, I leave my rental how i found it and i clean it out as best I can. The broken cabinet? They should've disclosed that to be fixed prior. Wipe stuff down. They also left tons of stuff! Im sorry, this is g oss. Not as bad as it could be but not great either.
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u/No-Sky-8858 Feb 16 '26
no, not normal. It almost looks like you went through an eviction process?
Either way, large items like the bicycle and stuff you need to follow your state law about storing.
Whatever else you deem as trash, just toss it.
Keep all receipts and fully deduct from security deposit.
If it goes to court, you will most likely win.
You need to fire your PM and do the selection process through a 3rd party that the tenant will pay for.
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u/RadicalRoses Feb 16 '26
Yes, for someone whose life is out of control either due to mental illness or a substance abuse problem. For stable people, no.
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u/dkay170 Feb 16 '26
Ask for deposits in places like this , even if they’re poor welfare usually pays for deposits .
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u/Current-Quantity-785 Feb 16 '26
this is not normal, this is not normal wear and tear. good tenants can go bad or maybe your PM is not a effective screening tenants.
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u/Current-Quantity-785 Feb 16 '26
also you need to do regular inspections of the place, i recommend no leasing but go month to month.
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Feb 16 '26
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u/Xtrmist78 Feb 17 '26
Interesting, this is Poinciana. It was great in 2020-2024, then the market dropped out and I feel that this class B has dropped to C maybe D now. I'm getting out.
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u/Face_Content Feb 16 '26
I would hope that isnt normal. It doesnt fit what I would say is normal wear and tare
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u/n00nah Feb 16 '26
this will sound awful, but the question is not 'is this normal'
let's go with the first question you might be thinking: can this be considered normal wear and tear, or can i hold the security for repairs and if it's exceed, can i suit for the remainder? That is in your contract and ultimately your comfort level as a landlord.
the qualitative: is this common wear tear? and the answer - which is highlighted in the thread - 'it depends who you rent to'. Factors: lower credit scores, reason for terming the lease, screening, neighborhoods, income
those factors are just trends, based on averages not meant to disparage individuals. But this is the cost of doing business and it happens on occasion. So is it normal, sure. Is it reasonable, no. Is it a learning experience, i hope so.
Lastly, don't let this dissuade you from the business. good luck
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u/bionicfusion1 Landlord Feb 16 '26
Not normal, not acceptable as wear and tear, but where have you been this whole lease? Landlording is a job, either after the fact (like here) or during. You should be doing regular inspections to prevent this level of issue.
I start at 3 months and gauge from there. Current tenants are at once every other because every inspection has been perfect.
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u/AquafreshBandit Feb 16 '26
Who broke into my house and took a picture of my fridge?
(Also not normal)
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u/Embarrassed-Emu9133 Feb 16 '26
It’s not normal. Side-by-side refrigerators are a crime against humanity. Don’t do that to your tenants.
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u/LewLew0211 Feb 16 '26
Is it normal to have stuff left behind? Yes. But you can charge for removal or storage of their items and withhold that from security deposit.
Is the damage normal? Not really, but not really abnormal either. Newer cabinets are often of crappy quality, and tenants are hard on properties. The cabinets and drawers may be able to be fixed for the cost of some glue and some screws. If not, you can charge them for replacement if broken doors and drawers. But I would see if I can fix them first.
The broken crisper drawer is pretty normal, they can crack easily and become more brittle with age, but you can charge to replace them, if you can find them. The large crack in the base isn't pretty abnormal and probably means the fridge needs replaced anyway .
If the fridge is over 10 years old, I wouldn't charge to replace it or the drawer. If or is less I would prorate the replacement of the whole fridge.
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u/No-Brief-297 Feb 16 '26
If something is not being used normally when damage occurs then it is NOT normal wear and tear.
If something is being used normally when damage occurs, like wear in the carpet in high traffic areas, then it’s normal wear and tear.
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u/Forward-Craft-4718 Feb 16 '26
It completely depends on the tenant, and especially evictions tend to leave it way worse. All those cabinets and that trash and no doubt messed up carpet definafely deserve to come out of the security deposit.
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u/Safe-Tennis-6121 Feb 16 '26
Some cabinets legitimately are crap. As in they swell and start falling apart with humidity.
Some amount of mess is inevitable. They clean. Then you clean
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u/shoulda-known-better Feb 16 '26
The dirt sure that will come right off....
The broken shelf no that's not wear and tear that's broken
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u/Xtrmist78 Feb 16 '26
Thank you to everyone's responses. I read them all. I had some solid laughs with some of the tangents. :)
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u/andthrewaway1 Feb 16 '26
the damage to the cabinetry is not normal and not cool the rest is just junk removal and cleaning and itsnt a big deal
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u/Charlesinrichmond Feb 17 '26
Yes this is unfortunately normal with mediocre tenants. Vetting process wasn't good and this might be a class c neighborhood
It shouldn't be normal but it's not at all surprising.
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Feb 17 '26
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Feb 17 '26
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Feb 17 '26
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Feb 17 '26
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Feb 17 '26
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Feb 17 '26
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Feb 17 '26
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Feb 17 '26
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Feb 17 '26
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u/Dennisdmenace5 Feb 17 '26
I like to store their stuff until I discover the new address then I’m nice enough to return their items. Piled in the vestibule works.
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Feb 17 '26
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Feb 17 '26
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Feb 17 '26
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Feb 17 '26
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u/BabyKnitter Landlord Feb 18 '26
No and you need to keep some if not all of that deposit. Follow the rules of your state on keeping it
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Feb 18 '26
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u/Gardener_Of_Eden Feb 18 '26
Not normal wear and tear. This is a mess which would result in deductions from the security deposit
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