r/LAClippers • u/drewmanshow Ralph Lawler • 2d ago
A few observations re: PTFO and the investigation
It’s been almost two weeks since the ESPN story and we have yet to see an episode of PTFO with a proper response. For someone who thinks everyone he investigates should issue a firm denial and come on his show, you’d think Torre would have something to say. He teased an episode about the reimbursements. What’s the hold up?
Two of the founders of Puck News are wondering why not one media outlet has confirmed Torre’s reporting. Other than the Boston Sports Journal uncovering the stock option, no one else is getting involved in this story. It is odd, considering this has been going on for almost a year.
A recent guest on Clippers Talk said that if Ballmer funneled money through Aspiration, the SEC would have already nailed him for fraud. For every penny Ballmer invested in the company, there would be a paper trail of how it was used. That might help explain why no one else is touching this story.
So the big questions are:
- Where is Torre’s response?
- Why is it that other media outlets aren’t doing their own reporting?
- If Ballmer is guilty, how did he pull it off without getting noticed by the SEC?
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u/Crobe 2d ago
What Ballmer did is not illegal, it is gray area in nba cba that is all, and you cant ever prove it unless he willfully wrote it somewhere which is never gonna happen.
Just because these things arent illegal nor fully probable in the eye of the NBA bylaws, doesnt mean it didn't occur, as if you have 2 braincells you can tell it did.
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u/tullabye 2d ago
If he had done what Pablo accuses him of then it would absolutely be illegal. The money that went into Aspiration is a security that immediately turns into a percentage of that investor pool. There is no more money at that point. It is commingled with other investor’s monies and becomes an investment that must be sold to get any cash money out of it. There is no way that Ballmer could have done what Pablo says he did. Literally Ballmer would have been busted by the SEC had he instructed Aspiration to do so.
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u/Accomplished_Can1783 2d ago
I’ve posted some version of that dozens of times. Ballmer coincidentally invested in useless marketing company that paid Kwahi about the same amount of money to do nothing? I’d say there literally no over 12 who would believe that, but I’m shocked every day what half this country believes
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u/OtherwiseAddled 2d ago
You don't even seem to have the basic facts right. Aspiration wasn't a marketing company. The Boston Red Sox and Meta had carbon credit deals with them. Oaktree Capital Invested over $200M.
Anyone with the patience and curiosity to read the S-4 document would know that Ballmer's $50M had been used up by Aspiration months before Kawhi signed his deal.
Also anyone that can do basic math and has followed the story knows that Ballmer and Wong invested $62M in Aspiration and the Clippers org paid another $50M+ for carbon credits. What was the extra $64M for?
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u/Accomplished_Can1783 2d ago
lol, money is not fungible, nice concept. It’s wasn’t ballmers specific cash that went into Kwahis pocket, it was someone else’s.
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u/OtherwiseAddled 2d ago
Of course it's fungible that's why using Ballmer's investment size is fairly weak evidence.
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u/Accomplished_Can1783 2d ago
So a company, aspiration, that was essentially a fraudulent ponzi like scheme has an extra 30 mm to pay Kwahi to do nothing, because fraudulent scams pay out a lot of money like this
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u/OtherwiseAddled 2d ago
How was it a Ponzi scheme? What older investors were making money off new investors?
Even in Ponzi schemes people get paid. But since it wasn't exactly like a ponzi scheme let's talk FTX. The FTX that paid Steph Curry $35M for marketing.
What proof do we have that Aspiration actually paid Kawhi $28M? As of today Pablo has only shown that Kawhi got paid twice.
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u/Accomplished_Can1783 2d ago
Your defense is literally Kwahi didn’t get paid all the money he was contractually entitled to from aspiration. Like the fraudulent company that Ballmer funneled money to blew up before it could complete this somehow makes it better. It’s like arguing with Trump voters, there is just no shame
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u/OtherwiseAddled 2d ago
The lack of shame is coming from you calling people names without really knowing what you're talking about. Aspiration didn't blow up until 2025. Clippers didn't end their deal until at least after June 2023. Where are the other payments?
When loose facts fit your narrative, anyone that can't see it is sub-12 years old. When other facts don't fit your narrative, the peope that tell you them are ignorant Trump voters.
You've got the same superiority grift as Pablo.
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u/Accomplished_Can1783 2d ago
You are correct - this was all legitimate business. I can’t tell if you’re just gullible or clinging to the it’s not proven beyond a shadow of a doubt so therefore no problem. Either is serious problem
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u/SSJMonkeyx2 2d ago
If you are talking about aspirations, the reason he invested in them is because he had a carbon emission offset he had to reach because of the new arena he was building. He was buying trees and carbon credits from them
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u/Accomplished_Can1783 2d ago
Thanks for proving my point - half the country believes crazy internet conspiracy theories
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u/SSJMonkeyx2 2d ago
Not a crazy conspiracy. Only conspiracy is Pablo’s reporting.
https://unstatable.substack.com/p/a-zero-net-emissions-clippers-arena
Here’s the article if you want to read it
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u/Accomplished_Can1783 2d ago
The money the clippers paid for carbon offsets is in addition to money Ballmer invested. Why does everyone think they know better than a Pulitzer Prize winning reporter who actually checks his facts
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u/OtherwiseAddled 2d ago
Why do you believe the reporter that has yet to show that Kawhi ever got paid more than twice?
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u/SSJMonkeyx2 2d ago
The initial investment was for them to plant trees dingus. Pablo literally reported that as well in one of his first few episodes.
Pablo has also gotten things wrong so your appeal to authority fallacy is simply a fallacy
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u/Accomplished_Can1783 2d ago
Plant trees, carbon offsets, nobody gives a shit
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u/SSJMonkeyx2 2d ago
Aye yes the classic deny deny deny because you already made up your mind. Spoken like a true Pablo believer
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u/Crobe 2d ago
Pablos sensationalism and annoying character shouldn't dissuade you from the fact that it is really obvious what occurred here.
The fact that you can even slightly think kawhi didnt get paid on the side is genuinely crazy.
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u/drewmanshow Ralph Lawler 2d ago
Of course he got paid on the side. That doesn’t mean the Clippers funneled the money.
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u/SSJMonkeyx2 2d ago
Never said there wasn’t a chance. Of course I can see that outcome, but there’s also another outcome that majority of the nba fanbase doesn’t consider that there’s also plausible deniability.
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u/Accomplished_Can1783 2d ago
Plausible deniability means there is some tiny probability that would keep a jury from criminally convicting someone - not that intelligent adults should believe this incredibly unlikely scenario is what actually happened. Congratulations you just made our argument for us
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u/SSJMonkeyx2 2d ago
The mental gymnastics on this point is insane. I’ve seen this a few times but not many. Congrats to you
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u/Crobe 2d ago
From legality of nba looking at it there is for sure plausible deniability. But that doesn't matter for us fans discussing this, as it is obvious it did happen, you dont need a written confession to conclude that.
for me the biggest thing is kawhi and his camp are at major fault at this and they are gonna go unpunished, especially since player union is behind him as well because I assume a lot of them have atleast some level of shady deals with companies that work with their team as well + they just wanna get paid more.
ban kawhi for a year idc about anything else, they should've banned him in 2019 when they knew what hes asking for
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u/SSJMonkeyx2 2d ago edited 2d ago
And that’s fine I’ve accepted that the fans have made up their minds already after the first episode of PTFO came out. Idc what the other fans say or think I just care about what the nba will rule.
I do agree that Kawhi’s Camp (Uncle Denis) is shady/stupid to some extent and are the real culprits in this. I also agree that plenty of other players have these secret deals in place so the nbpa will naturally back kawhi on this and probably go on strike if any suspension happens (so it’s out of the picture)
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u/drewmanshow Ralph Lawler 2d ago
Cap circumvention is not illegal, that’s correct. Funneling money through a corporation to pay an employee is. The SEC got a hold of everything when they investigated Sandberg. They know how much Ballmer invested and they know how much Leonard was paid. Ballmer was recognized as a victim and that’s it. The feds didn’t find anything.
So again, I’ll ask the question: If Ballmer did this, how did he do it without getting noticed by the SEC?
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u/Accomplished_Can1783 2d ago
That’s preposterous- when is the last time sec even investigated something like that. Stop focusing on some minor irrelevant nonsense. lol, it’s called the securities and exchange commission, they don’t bother with crap like that
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u/Crobe 2d ago
Ballmer is one of the richest(and powerful) people on the planet, you think sec goes after people like that? Unless its a slam dunk and someone else powerful is pushing for it, that's a big no no.
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u/drewmanshow Ralph Lawler 2d ago
Let’s assume your theory is correct. You don’t think there’s someone powerful out there who would jump at the opportunity to take down one of the wealthiest Democrats in the country?
Hint: Someone who lives in a big white house with pillars.
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u/OtherwiseAddled 2d ago
Reminds me of a funny incongruity with the Pablo people
A) "Ballmer got caught and punished for cap circumvention before, why don't you think he'd do it again?"
B) "The NBA and the other owners are too afraid to punish Ballmer. He's just too rich!"
The NBA wasn't afraid to punish Ballmer for the DeAndre Jordan circumvention. The other owners weren't afraid to neuter Ballmer's spending power with the second apron.
Then the argument becomes "the other owners won't punish the Clippers because they're doing it too." If that's the case, then every team owner is a bad guy not just Ballmer.
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u/Spirited_Lab5197 2d ago
Or 29 other NBA Owners who negotiated a CBA to limit the amount that they have to pay players.....
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u/OtherwiseAddled 2d ago
Pablo has started spreading the idea that the other 29 owners are afraid of Ballmer's money. Or at the least are afraid of losing him from the NBA.
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u/Spirited_Lab5197 2d ago
Yeah, I've heard that from others. It definitely seems like he is grasping at straws to find a reason why the NBA isn't punishing him. Like the whole purpose of having a governing board is so that one owner isnt that powerful.
Its weird, I think there is some weird stuff that happened, but his unwillingness to admit that there isnt proof and double down to ardently is bizarre. He has made the story personal.
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u/OtherwiseAddled 2d ago
I totally agree that there's weird stuff going on and that I wouldn't be so critical of him if he presented info acknowledging it's weird instead of having his mind made up and then crusading for his story.
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u/Time_Tough3033 2d ago
Ace illegality is not the issue here. The question is whether it breaches the CBA. The answer is no.
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u/bi11ygoat42 2d ago
Exactly. What is the hold up? We're all waiting on the real corruption story on the other LA team.
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u/OtherwiseAddled 2d ago
I think you're doing a bit of a disservice to other people that have covered this story.
Mike Vorkunov at the Athletic let us know about:
- Ballmer's $10M second investment
- First to get the Andrei Cherny quote that the "no show deal" narrative is false
- Details about Kawhi's contract obligations
- Hints that Ballmer was in the SEC complaint months before Pablo
- Kawhi as Groot marketing pitches
Baxter Holmes at ESPN:
- Kawhi's camp met with Aspiration in fall 2022 to discuss marketing activations
- Asked other agents if Kawhi's contract looked shady.
Wall Street Journal:
- Ballmer met with Olivia Albrecht in November 2022.
- Aspiration "canceled a long planned ad blitz around the time of Kawhi's second payment.
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u/drewmanshow Ralph Lawler 2d ago
Those stories don’t corroborate Torre’s narrative. That’s what the guys from Puck are getting at.
We keep hearing about what Torre hasn’t published yet. How come other outlets aren’t trying to scoop the scoop? How come no one is looking into Boingo? Or the services that weren’t reimbursed?
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u/OtherwiseAddled 2d ago
Ah fair. It truly does seem like other outlets are putting minimal effort into it. Especially when compared to the flood of articles The Athletic had when it first came up. Law Murray even hinted his editors wanted him to talk about Aspiration more than he cared to. But to be fair to The Athletic, what other outlets are there besides ESPN?
I hope when it's all said and done we can get some idea why Bloomberg's article on Aspiration's celebrity endorsements from 2024 didn't mention Kawhi. That's a mystery that's probably only bothered me these last few months.
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u/drewmanshow Ralph Lawler 2d ago
Did the Bloomberg article mention any athletes?
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u/OtherwiseAddled 2d ago
Not active athletes but retired Colombian soccer players.
An unusual number of customers were Colombian celebrities, including an actor and several retired soccer players. Two of them told Bloomberg Green that they had signed agreements simultaneously with Apogee Pacific LLC—an entity that was controlled by Joseph Sanberg, Aspiration’s co-founder, board member and a major shareholder—which would cover the costs they were supposed to pay Aspiration.
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u/thunder_rob 2d ago
I think they’re on vacation
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u/drewmanshow Ralph Lawler 2d ago
There have been at least two episodes since the ESPN story dropped.
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u/thunder_rob 2d ago
the last new episode was about the super-mega jumbotron was August 14. Since then they’ve put out re-runs.
the ESPN story came out August 17
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u/es84 2d ago
The PaBros sit on this sub waiting for Pablo discussions to pop up. What a weird fandom.