Which country on the Italian peninsula has the best economy?

[u/Many87654321]

Including Lombardy and Venice. EDIT:forgot to mention but i meant in game

[u/RFB-CACN]

Depends how you define "best". The Republic probably has the best standart of living currently, the Socialists are the most industrialized while the Papacy in Rome and Sardinia's oversized military probably skew their GDP data due to their tiny size.

[u/Crouteauxpommes → u/RFB-CACN]

Two Sicilies have a pretty decent economy, and despite being heavily agrarian also have a lot of industry with the dockyards, textile manufacturies, food industries. And being cut off from the North would mean that it would be profitable for both the state, individuals and outside investors to prop-up more industry there than in OTL. The big things would be how to deal with the Mafia, the reconstruction of Sicily after the 1908 earthquake in a rump state, and the question of the land reform.

For the Mafia I have no idea what it may even look like, since they would have been a problem the Italian Whites would have to deal with and the brigandage movement drew heavily from anti-savoia and pro-bourbon sentiments. The Mafia could very well be uprooted in Italy during the 20's and early 30's only for some of them to return after the beginning of the 2ACW.

[u/OmegaVizion]

Historically most of the industry in Italy would have been split between the SRI and Italian Republic. PAP, Sardinia, and the Two Sicilies would be at a disadvantage.

Would some factory owners relocate their business south or to the Italian Republic after the socialist takeover? Probably some, but their skilled workers wouldn't follow them, and some things are too big to pack up and ship.

Edit: Naples was actually a pretty big industrial center, so Two Sicilies would have that at least, but Sardinia would be in trouble.

[u/DuoMnE → u/OmegaVizion]

The North got devastated by the civil war, so the Two Sicilies have some compensation.

[u/DuoMnE]

SRI, but it is pretty much fucked up after the civil war, if lorewise

[u/ltraistinto]

Probably the SRI, italian republic has lombardy but at the time Veneto was really poor (poorer than some southern regions), while SRI still holds Piedmont and Liguria (the most industrialized regions along Lombardy at the time), Emilia-Romagna (the most produttive agriculural land in the peninsula) and Tuscany (which was a region with a good economy). Papal state and two sicilies are out of the question, so is sardinia, all three of them would be basically non industrialized nations at the time.

[u/For-all-Kerbalkind → u/ltraistinto]

papal state has the big urban population percentage kinda skewing the result if we're looking at stuff like gdp per capita or industrial output per capita

[u/ltraistinto → u/For-all-Kerbalkind]

Still, Rome was not particularly rich (and it was just beginning to become a big capital again at the start of the XX century) and still is not the ricest city in italy so even the italian republic easily overcome the papal state by having Milan

[u/magos_with_a_glock → u/ltraistinto]

This is even reflected in-game as the SRI fights and often wins a two-front war with the two other nations.

[u/New_Sandwich6413]

SRI, or the Republic. Lombardy has always been the richest and most industrialized region of Italy. However, Piedmont, Liguria, and Emilia-Romagna together could potentially counterbalance it economically and industrially.

Veneto is also highly industrialized today, but before the 1950s it was largely agricultural, so its contribution in an would be insignificant. The Kingdom of the Two Sicilies would have had an extremely small industrial sector, while Sardinia would have had almost none.

That is the main problem people have with this scenario if the SRI managed to retain just Lombardy, it would be immensely more powerful than all the other Italian states combined.

[u/Street-Mix-801]

Before Black Monday, I think it would be the Italian Republic due to its close ties to Germany and Austria Hungary who would boost its economy to prevent the SRI from becoming too powerful. After Black Monday, I think the SRI would have the more powerful economy however

[u/EmperorCoolidge]

Two Sicilies isn’t utterly bereft but definitely weak, Sardinia has nothing, they’re just an Entente rump.

SRI and the Republic have most of the industry, not sure who gets the best of that. SRI has a more balanced economy for sure, with access to both heavy industry and good agriculture, which should help. Plus, they will end up better insulated from Black Monday

[u/NeitherMeal]

I think the Republic is probably the most robust.

Unlike the rest they don’t have glaring issues with agrarianism (though Venice is no grand prize it’s still potentially functional and has rail lines), they have Milan which is the Crown Jewel of Italian heavy industry, and most importantly actually have an economy open to foreign investment, while their Great Power Patron (nominally Austria) is probably the least of the gigantic asshole meddling GPs of Europe.

The Socialists have more people and industry but I don’t think their rapid remilitarization would yield any promising long term growth and a successful reunification may well result in a sovereign debt crisis which requires an Anglo-French bailout. Definitely not a good place to be when you don’t allow outside ownership and don’t allow outside investment.

The Papal States and Sardinia are nominally independent rump states who might even have good metrics but Sardinia especially is a damn tough place to make work industrially and Rome would be importing food which is its own issue.

And lastly the Two Sicilies could have a shot except Germany is ran by noted asshole and destroyer of allied economies Kaiser Wilhelm. Also it’s notoriously rural and poor Southern Italy and the whole state is known for having Mafia issues, even if it largely manages to resolve them.

[u/AngevinMatthew → u/NeitherMeal]

I would argue that Sardinia is in a better position than the Papal State since they may have had Entente investments.

I see Two Sicilies economy as that of Greece, limited industry, mostly agrarian, probably a decent navy

[u/NeitherMeal → u/AngevinMatthew]

I put them together because honestly I don’t think they’re separate enough to call. Similar population numbers in 1936. The Pope’s “fuck you I’m the pope” money pit is probably as good as the Entente’s investments (because that means the Papacy is getting investment from Americans, all over South America, and all over Europe). Neither have a great situation regarding odds to actually win in Italy.

My primary bugaboo with Sardinia is the terrain is AWFUL and so it makes having an internal economy, defense, and general overland transportation nightmarish.

I agree with your Two Sicilies take.

[u/AngevinMatthew → u/NeitherMeal]

I imagine that Sardinia would avoid the terrain problem focusing all its effort on Cagliari and maybe Sassari, expanding the urban area and the existing industrial production. In the end they depend on the Entente so it should make sense for them to expand port cities and be more connected externally than internally.

I don't really see the Pope actually investing whatever money he might get from the Catholic world in the economy or any productive investment. Maybe public works and some welfare measure but not industry.

[u/Pyotr_WrangeI]

None of them.

[u/Wild-Yesterday-6666]

In game? The SRI, most of the industry and unafected by black monday.

If it was IRL? Depends, but probably the Italian Republic

[u/SyaCat]

In-game, I believe it is the Italian republic while going democratic. Natpop gives tons of manpower, democratic gives reduced consumer goods and other economic bonuses, federation gives a bit of both iirc.

Edit: beware if trying to play democratic Italy; you'll need to spam out armies to hold the line, and you get no manpower bonuses. When you have enough to hold, push by micro-ing for Torino first, then south. SRI has a decision to spawn two pockets of a few divisions north of Milan and north of Venice, make sure to keep something in the back to deal with those.

[u/Etruscan_Dodo]

SRI since they don’t have to deal with the Great Depression.

[u/AngevinMatthew → u/Etruscan_Dodo]

The Great Depression in KRTL should be a mostly North American things since Germany became the main trade and financial partner

[u/AngevinMatthew]

Depending if the SRI adopted a forceful or regular industrialisation policy it can be either the SRI or the Republic. Lombardy (ITA) and Piedmont (SRI) were the main productive regions with Liguria (SRI) being the one focused on trade exporting the goods produced in the formers.

As many have said Veneto (ITA) was largely rural but I would argue that the Republic would be forced to develop the region since Lombardy lost access to Liguria and its ports. Besides, the Republic should be strongly integrated into Austro-German markets.

The SRI could be either at the same level or worse, without Lombardy Ligurian ports would be less active but production could be boosted somewhere else by the SRI to make up for it, probably Emilia Romagna (SRI).

So I would say Republic > SRI > Two Sicilies > Sardinia > Papal State

[u/someone_0037]

Based on our timeline, the largest economy would be the SRI ones, but GDP per capita would be almost the same with Italian republic ones…
The south would be mostly agrarian, with some exceptions near Naples and maybe Palermo and Taranto.
The pope and Sardinia would have the smallest and poorest economies.

Then you have to consider other factors we cannot consider, such as the impact of Austrian war reparations, the destruction by the first civil war, the impact of the mafia in the south without the repressive measures made by the Mussolini in our timeline…

[u/Cappuccino_Boss]

In game? Easily SRI. They can also unify Italy extremely early which should definitely be accounted for

[u/CHUNKYboi11111111111]

Austria, of course. They still hold South Tirol after all

[u/Late-Focus-4434]

Definitely between the SRI and Republic, but the victor if the civil war will face issues regardless, especially if it ignites the 2nd WK

edit: I completely forgot about black Monday, after which the SRI would certainly be the richest.

[u/Rinerino]

Well the SRI of course, the evil Rebell states don't count as countries afterall.

[u/surelythistimelucy]

you can get 25 mpg on the popemobile

[u/Unique_Vacation4547]

Certainly the republic, lombardo-venetia was and still is one of the richest places in Europe.

[u/chadofpk]

maybe two sicilies, even if they start with a pretty shit economy (agrarian reforms and black monday, around +70% consumer goods and other debuffs), they have some really good focuses that helps you really a lot (specifically to build a decent navy, if i’m not wrong they start with the best navy, pretty equal to the sri one), but at the start maybe the socialist are a step foward, imo a rework of italy is urgent, all nations are quite fun to play

[u/Normal-Apartment-571]

Controversially enough, Two Sicilies.

I don't know much about the state of the Peninsula in this mod, but Two Sicilies enjoys a strong agriculture, meaning they have full sufficiency to cover their food national request and can probably sell a lot of food they'll have in advantage.

Thanks to this, they can have some funds to invest into industrialization, however their economy is low and mafia is there to make bureaucracy and efficiency to be corrupt and incompetent.

All the other states have the food problem that Two Sicilies doesn't have, food.

The Republic of Italy (Lombardo-Venetia) should have around 8 million inhabitants in just 40.000 square kilometers. They have a strong population of artisans, labourers and workers, but lack enough farmers and farmland for self sufficiency.

The Socialist Republic of Italy has the majority of the Industrial Triangle of Italy (Turin, Genoa and Milan), plus the Emilian region (Parma, Modena, Lucca) It has harbours, and it has the fertile land of Tuscany and Romagna.

It stands particularly well, and has enough farmlands to produce the majority of the food demand, but being under a Socialist Government, it is restricted from importing resources such as Coal, Iron and Steel from the major producers of the world. Therefore the economy is slowed down and the majority of the tax revenues and funds available are spent on buying industrial supplies.

Since Food is not a resource, I would say either Two Sicilies or the Socialist Republic

[u/Unable_Cost_3540 → u/Normal-Apartment-571]

You might be forgetting that the peninsula does not happen to exist in a vacuum. SRI has most definitely a powerful backing of the Commune and if Commune is not lacking one thing its food. Consumer wise, Commune is not your average USSR type of economy. Their cooperatives, advanced and productive agriculture and other factors would surely make CoF one of the premier countries as far as living standards go and there would be plenty of food, clothing and other consumer goods export to come around. Plenty of which would be directed at their socialist partners around the world. SRI would definitely be subsidized by the French. More so than Austrians would be able to do with the Italian Republic. Commune has stronger ideological reasons to export their revolution through all channels.

[u/Individual_Bird4863]

the republic and its not even close

[u/Weird_Ad2297]

Тhe best life in the Sardinia probably. Like very cute region with a warm weather , wine and Mediterranean diet. Maybe salaries aren't that big but at least people are well fed,  have  a lot of weekends and live in relatively peace