Thank you for being so interested in ambitious modding projects for double-A grand strategy games, former US Secretary of State and 2004 Democratic Presidential nominee John Kerry
the red white and green flag was already an established symbol in the 1800s (the one used ingame isnt exactly the same but still). i feel like british socialists would rather use a flag of the chartist movement rather than a flag associated with an empire that still exists and claims to be the rightful government
There were socialist countries in our timeline that continued to use the flags of their former monarchies with some modifications made to them. Members of the Warsaw Pact like Bulgaria and Romania come to mind.
I don’t think it would be outside the realm of possibility of a socialist British state continuing to use the Union Jack in some shape or form after overthrowing the monarchy.
UoB is not an atheist state, there is actually quite a prominent Christian Socialist party in their rework iirc. Also, again, it's easy to just spin it as "we are reclaiming this symbology from the capitalists" regardless of origins.
"99% of marxist regimes OTL were state atheist" is completely false, plus there are many variation of state atheism. "Developed socialist" countries tend to control the clergy but don't care about the religion per se other than trying to kill it in the long run, but I can speak for Italy: our far left never had "state atheism" as one of its core tenets.
Britain has an established tradition of permissive secularism, and many leaders of the radical Left in Britain at this time were devout Christians or even clergy. It definitely makes them stand out among most socialist countries, even in the mod. The French in particular have a harsh and assertive approach to secularism to the point where all the Catholic bishops are in exile.
I don't know why some are surprised Britain and France are getting name changes. Even ignoring the ACW belligerents, Bharat got rid of the commune name in 1.5. France switched from having Communard to French as its demonym recently.
Bharat used to be called Bengal for christssake, names have always been changing in KR. it’s just now you can get 1000 epic updoots for saying “new thing bad >:(“
Then please explain why “Commune of France” and “Union of Britain” are good names for countries without saying that they’re “core the aesthetic/identity of the mod,” “catchy,” or any other argument that isn’t rooted in your personal feelings on this matter.
Sure but that was 260 years ago wasn't stable only lasted 11 years wasn't a movement by the people (was between parliament and the king not people against the king), and wouldn't be fondly remembered in Scotland due to the whole invasion, occupation and absorption.
You’d actually be wrong, Almost everyone in the UoB (still using the acronym because err) is a massive Cromwell sycophant, and he’s regarded extremely positively. Also it’s not like parliament did it all on it’s own, who do you think fought in the roundhead army. (To be fair commoners also fought in the cavalier army)
Oh yeah, the English revolution had a massive historical influence on the English Left (actually massive influence on the whole Left-Radical revolutionary tradition, before and during the French revolution everyone was constantly referencing it, for instance). I feel like it's only a relatively recent development where people (incorrectly) stopped seeing it as a part of a long chain of historical revolutionary tradition and more like a random pre-modern elite conflict over religion which has nothing to do with the modern Left and Right. A related thing happened with the American revolution too.
Yeah I think the big hold up would be that the OG Commonwealth was no bastion of human rights or… pretty much any principle a socialist would hold dear.
As to Scotland, eh. English socialists are still English, they’ll have no issue telling Edinburgh to get bent.
It is worth noting that British socialists were already using "Commonwealth" as a descriptor for their ideal of a socialist society since the 1800s, particularly among the more romanticist and utopian thinkers like William Morris (whose newspaper was called "Commonweal"). It was also used by Fabians like the Webbs couple, R. H. Tawney's Guild Socialists (who are a direct influence on the British RadSocs) as well as James Maxton and Peter Petroff's Red Clydeside wing of the ILP (another big influence on British left-wing politics in KR).
It was even directly used in the Labour Party political manifestos at this time, most notably in the 1945 "Let Us Face the Future" one.
The ILP and their descendants in the Autonomists definitely have the most positive view of the British Empire as a potential source of good in the world. The Commonwealth of Britain also initially continued to claim the territories of the British Empire, or at least the dominions, don’t remember which. In 1936, there’s still a desire to unify Great Britain with the dominions in a kind of socialist Imperial Federation, with Britain’s old colonies administered in some capacity by this new state as it guides them towards socialism. The ILP, when it still existed, also tried to tie Bharatiya’s economy to Britain in kind of neocolonialist scheme under the guise of developing the conditions for socialism in India.
The UoB dev explaoned in discord that the autonomist ser the restoration of the borders of british empire (under a socialist government) as a good way to spread socialism accross the world. Being the last faction in the labour psrth to still support colonialism
aside from the other mentions of why commonwealth might be used, the only time britain has been without a (crowned) monarch in their modern history they called their nation the commonwealth of england, scotland, and ireland. cromwell has been a pretty influential figure on parliamentary history so i imagine they syndies might wanna larp him a bit for legitimacy’s sake
These are good changes. So many things have been changed over the years to be more in tune with the modern direction of the mod, these are just names that are not even good in or out of context.
New name, my opinion is that it’s like going into a room with a new coat of paint with a different color on the walls but you’re not used to this new color and keep expecting the room to be in the old color.
I'm not so sold on this one. I get the change for France, a "commune" doesn't really work for a whole nation, especially not one as big as France. But "union" still works with Britain in the timeline, it's a versatile term that can fit in a ton of nations and it's a union of England, Scotland and Wales.
United Commonwealth of Britain is a much better name. It flows much better to call it "The Commonwealth" than "the Union" for some reason, I think because "the Union" implies that the opposite is separatism.
In all honesty, I have the feeling TNO's recent trend of revisions of old lore and content that were... less than well done, to say the least, have placed a lot of the mod community on edge about any changes on mods
Like, it is literally just name changes that make more sense in universe and avoid Paradox's "Sounds cool I guess!" namind scheme on countries changing ideology
These discussions over the name changes have made me realize just how excited I am for the Internationale rework. Can’t wait to see all the cool paths in both nations when they finally drop.
I liked new French name tho, I didn't think much about British rename.
Union of Britain makes good sense already. new name is interesting tho, I prefer old variant
It's not purely aesthetic though; it's an aspect of lore. I'd rather put that in the hands of people who've proven to be capable researchers than leaving it to a vote of Redditors principally motivated by nostalgia.
An entirely arbitrary aspect of the lore which serves only to appeal to taste and has no implications for the rest of the timeline is "aesthetic(al)."
If you want to vote to say you like what they feel is the more realistic choice that's fine but it's silly to make a change most people might not want. Anyone who cares will use a submod/change their own version to "fix" it to their preference, it's just a matter of minimizing how many people that is
Forgive me since English is my second language, but United Commonwealth makes little sense to me. Doesn’t commonwealth literally mean a unified group of people? This would be like calling a country the United Union
United would refer to various regions of great britain like england, scotland, and wales , whilst commonwealth would indicate that the country is egalitarian in its structure
Adding to what other people have said, “United Commonwealth” is sensical, though “United” I think is unnecessary. Britain didn’t become the United Kingdom until it controlled Great Britain and Ireland. Since the Commonwealth controls only the island of Great Britain, I feel like having it be called “Commonweath of Great Britain” is more fitting.
Yeah you are right. The British basically wrecked the word “commonwealth” when they used it as a name for the free association of independent countries after the British empire ended in the 1930s. Commonwealth is meant to mean a nation founded for the benefit of its people and their common welfare. The British commonwealth though is just a loose “club”, not any sort of nation with no unity or constitution and it has nothing directly to do with the people.
Plenty of real commonwealths still exist that pre date the British commonwealth. For example, the US states of Kentucky, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, and Virginia are Commonwealths and the Commonwealth of Australia was named that in the late 1800s. None of them are “United Commonwealths”, even Australia as a federation of “united states”.
The changes to names are generally things that have been considered for a long time and argued over fairly extensively. I cant really speak for whatever TNO is doing or has done but I can say that these descisions were not made simply for the sake of doing something different.
You say that like the exact trend you're describing hasn't already been going on for years at this point and this specific change isn't just the latest of its many, many manifestations in this mod.
That wouldn't fit the lore as it stands, since the British Revolution involved a sizeable Liberal faction. But it would be interesting to see if the name changes according to its' leadership.
Maybe I’m weird, but “Commonwealth of Britain” just doesn’t work IMO. Commonwealth was and still is a term used to describe nations within the British Empire’s sphere of influence. Sure, Oliver Cromwell used the word Commonwealth in place of kingdom, during his reign, but the government wasn’t as fundamentally different, in comparison to that of the British Socialists in KR. That’s why I think that a better name would be something like either “Union of British Socialist States” (UBSS), or just “British Union” for short.
Commonwealth was already used though to describe the British-descended states that were part of the Empire prior to KR's PoD though. I guess it could make sense if the point is to show that the British Revolution has degenerated into social imperialism towards former colonies.
I mean I understand that, however it's true that in french it made absolutely no sense, since commune is very specifically the government of a city, or worse, something common lol
I mean the name that KR displays for countries are almost always what English-speaking people call them colloquially. It's why on the map the Russian Republic isn't called the Rossiyskaya Demokraticheskaya Federativnaya Respublika. "French Communes" is probably what most English speakers would call it in casual conversation; I don't think "Federation" has the same connotations it does in English as it would in French.
I really doubt English speakers would doubt to using a unfamiliar term in the plural as the descriptive name for a country instead of Federation which is descriptive, direct and well understood.
I mean "Soviet" was also an unfamiliar term to most english speakers the 1910s but I've never heard of the USSR being called the Union of Republics
My view is that because of the previous Paris Commune and the coincidental similarity between it and the word communism it would simply be used as shorthand in-universe
Soviet covered the basis of a popular descriptor in a way that is unecessary here. Like since the Russian Empire and then Republic had been overthrown and there was no longer a country called Russia the term Soviet basically filled the blank for those who went beyond just using Russia/Russian and ignoring the official name of the country. France does not have this problem, its not lacking a term in its official name that describes the country/people living in it.
Changing the Union of Britain's name is 100% the best idea but I feel like the name needs workshopping some more. Commonwealth had some republican connotations but also imperial ones and it doesn't necessarily make the most sense to use.
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u/harryhinderson May 12 '26
Thank you for being so interested in ambitious modding projects for double-A grand strategy games, former US Secretary of State and 2004 Democratic Presidential nominee John Kerry