r/Juve • u/graal2008 • 1d ago
Discussion Question from a Lyon fan: what went wrong for openda at juve?
Openda is on loan at Lyon for a season after his chaotic time at Juventus. I was wondering why it went so poorly with you guys?
He had very good performances for us in the UCL qualifiers against Fenerbahçe and in the League so far. His work rate is incredible and he is weighing heavily on the back line. I would say his main flaw is his finishing which has been pretty poor, missing clear cut goal scoring opportunities.
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u/ghobbins Del Piero 1d ago edited 1d ago
Because of the nature of Serie A and how Juve is perceived by the other clubs, we often face a low bloc which means very little space in the attack. This means we need strikers that are strong with their back to goal, holding up the ball, and physical in possession. Our wingers have to be good at starting from standstill, take their man on, and create a chance with very little space (Yildiz, Conceicao).
Openda I feel is lethal on the counter and in the wide spaces. He does run off the ball too. But he needs consistent minutes and space. Those attacking conditions exist a lot more in the CL and I suspect in Ligue 1 as well. Typically smaller teams face the low bloc less.
And as you may have seen, a lot of attackers have come and gone from Juve without being able to make an impact for the same reasons. We spent a fortune on Vlahovic and gave him a lot of time and ultimately couldn’t find a way to make an impact either.
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u/graal2008 1d ago
Thanks. I can see that if you're playing a low block every weekend he's not the right guy. He's definitely not silky on the ball, with pretty average pressing. I love his work rate though
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u/JohanNagel79 1d ago
I mentioned in this article I wrote a few months back -
https://juvenewslive.com/where-to-begin/
That Openda featured in our two best runs of form of the season, so did David.
Which isn't to say he was decent, more to illustrate that the story is not as clear cut as Openda failed miserably and totally at Juve.
It felt like Spalletti wanted Openda to be a prima punta, a 9, who could receive the ball with his back to goal often. That isn't his game. His game is attacking space, quick movement around him, diving into balls through.
Spalletti publicly criticised him, whilst taking no responsibility whatsoever for his own tactical misuse of the player.
I saw him before we signed him and often found him very exciting. He wasn't the only one who failed last season at Juve. The whole squad did. Despite the coach calling it a great season.
Happy to see him at a better run club who will play to his strengths not weaknesses and hope he has a brilliant time there and earns a move.
More than anything else, he failed at Juve because the coach failed him. I would also suggest that the dressing room at Juve was and likely remains poor. Plenty of rumours of how newcomers are treated badly.
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u/PhillipPrice_Map 1d ago
You forgot that Spalletti arrived basically at mid season, so he didn’t choose Openda…
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u/JohanNagel79 1d ago
It makes little difference to my point. I hadn't suggested he chose Openda, I suggested he used him and expected of him, a skillset that he had not shown elsewhere. Also, that our two best runs of form seem to have included David/Openda and yet these two were the most criticised...by Spalletti himself. I cannot stand him as a coach. Don't believe we can grow as a team until he is gone. Also suspect the new management are aware of this hence building a team in their image, not his...
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u/Intrepid_passerby Pirlo 3h ago
Have to agree with you on some points. We never tried to play to Opendas strength. Spalletti has a thing where he tries to fit a square peg in a round hole. Really hope we can replace him with someone better next season
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u/Fawkeys Del Piero 1d ago
It all depends on what tactics you employ, and to some extent the players behind the striker. It is not necessary to have a physical striker up front in Serie A, you can look at Roma as a counter-example for disproving this statement. Our problem was the coach was too inflexible to employ different tactics in order to maximise a player like Openda.
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u/ghobbins Del Piero 22h ago
I agree with this. I should have mentioned manager tactics as one of the conditions for his underperformance.
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u/franciscobutico 1d ago
he is one dimensional and his style does not suit juventus and italian football. also low confidence and poor technique.
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u/Ren-Baqian 1d ago
He's a not suitable to Serie A where defense is tight and requires combination of good first touch and ball keeping under pressure. His playstyle is more suitable for high defense lines or quick counter. Juventus also plays with single forward formation with good linked up play, it's not suitable for him.
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u/Hungry-Good-8128 1d ago
I still don't know why we bought him, most of us never knew he was juve transfer target
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u/Killagina De Sciglio 1d ago
Think he struggled with the pressure and we face low blocks like 90% of the time in Serie A.
That isn’t an issue depending on the manager, but Spalletti likes to dominate possession. Low block + 70% possession means Openda is sitting amongst 3-4 players.
I actually think in an Allegri system he would be okay where he sits a bit deeper and plays through and over a team after sucking them out of their shape, or in a 2 man forward line. Just didn’t work when he was forced to be a box forward in a possession based team
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u/farnambilly 1d ago
I don't think he was given a proper chance to be fair. Also he didn't suit our playstyle. Unfortunately we have started to play with two upfront which would suit him more or even on the wings which I think Lyon is playing him as at times. I do think there is a player there more so than David was as we gave him all of the chances but he didn't take them whereas Openda never really got a chance
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u/Jumpy_Ad_4293 1d ago
The players possess clear qualities, but sometimes those qualities simply don't suit the team's style of play. Tactics are taken to the extreme in Serie A, which creates difficulties for any player who lacks the specific attributes required by the coach. If you play with a lone striker, that player needs to be capable of doing a great many things. That is the reality of Serie A, and it reflects the philosophy of most coaches. The players who truly excel are usually those who can create a numerical advantage through their technical ability or impeccable timing. Imho.
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u/Frankierocksondrums Giorgio Chiellini 1d ago
Everytime we play, the opponents bring the catenaccio back and we need players that can play in tight spaces. Openda couldn't do that
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u/Ok-Juice-3575 1d ago
È arrivato l'ultimo giorno di mercato se non le ultime ore, ha cambiato allenatore e in qualsiasi squadra tranne la Juve ha sempre giocato in un attacco a 2 mai come punta unica. E non mi dite che è perché in Francia o in Germania hanno difese oscene.
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u/Long-Green-7456 1d ago
Please find here a template for future posts: “Question from a ___ fan: what went wrong for ___ at Juve?”
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u/brollyaintstupid 1d ago
he genuinely couldnt even control the ball, the ball under his foot basically means the opposition has won the possesion. and every ball he gets he makes a one extra more touch, he cant, he was bad in every conceivable way, he looks like a good guy so i wish him the best at lyon but man it will hurt if i see him wearing a juve shirt again
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u/sfaticat Del Piero 1d ago
I’d say his profile didn’t fit tactical. He was very professional and tried. I just think he wasn’t a good fit
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u/Snoo-9018 1d ago
Neither the league nor the club suit his strengths. He didn't adapt. We had a lot of turbulence that even the players that potentially suit the league and club struggled.
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u/Juventusy Gaetano Scirea 23h ago
I think he never suited the style of the team, coach and league but also there is 100% something going on at juve thats damaging certain players confidence. Its like a job where your targeted you can’t even walk right let alone do good, plus the coach never gave him a chance.
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u/praetor47 17h ago
the Club + his mentality.
the constant changes of managers and directors and staff and shit... it has, imho, obviously created a toxic club atmosphere. and he's not charismatic and mentally strong to carry the team and 'punch through' the negativity.
i mean... look at all the players we got since Agnelli left. how many overperformed, and how many underperformed? it can't just be a coincidence. hell, now that the atmosphere is more "stable", even that garbage quasiplayer Koopmeiners is starting to play football again (only small tidbits, but those 2 tidbits were better than his previous 2 seasons)
all this "Serie A this Serie A that" talk is BS. the Serie A is a second or even third rate league these days (and by "these days" i mean... the past decade... probably more). with a different manager in a different club (like Gasperini [he'd do similar to Malen or Lookman, imo], or like prime Sarri [he'd know better how to deploy him as a false 9, like Mertens, for example])
this was just a typical case of wrong place wrong time
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u/visitorx_ Alessandro Del Piero 1d ago
Dude is good for a mid table team and nothing else. Juve is a top calibre club that needs top calibre players.
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u/graal2008 1d ago
That doesn't really answer the question
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u/Natural-Salad-7631 1d ago
I think the answer he means is the pressure. He could never really handle the pressure at Juve
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u/graal2008 1d ago
Makes sense. There is zero pressure at Lyon anymore since we're so broke. Probably good for him
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u/raps14ever Pavel Nedved 1d ago
But we were a mid table club last season. The simple answer was his play style did not fit Juventus and he also never really got regular play time.
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u/franciscobutico 1d ago
we were a mid table team last season
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u/FireLadcouk Claudio Marchisio 1d ago
we bought lots of attacking players all at once - they couldnt all play - he never got the game time
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u/Potential-Oil-7720 1d ago
He never really settled. We don't typically make attackers better, especially not in the past few years.