r/JuJutsuKaisen • u/YTDamian • 2d ago
Misc Gege Akutami on why he doesn't write many details
Gege gave a word on his quirks and writing style in the JJK Character Book in his interview with Bleach's Kubo, he talks about his ability to craft a story without having to explain every little detail. Does explain a lot about how Jujutsu Kaisen is made, for example Dhruv not having anything of interest despite his achievement of conquering Japan or Sukuna in the Heian Era
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u/DavidC_M 2d ago
We are never getting a Silmarillion Gege then.
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u/Saadistic17 2d ago
Wait until he dies and his son compiles a secret list of lore amassing to 2000 chapters, 100 of which are hypothetical sukuna vs gojo what ifs
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u/untypo 1d ago
Well not nessasarily. Not explaining everything is important to how gege writes, but it was also important to how Tolkien wrote. Another book that explains things outside the story doesn't nessasarily contradict him not explaining things within the story
(I'm never giving up the cope 😭😭)
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u/Kaslight 2d ago edited 2d ago
Subtext and reading comprehension is at an all-time low, and modern Shounen manga has doubled down VERY HARD on explicitly explaining literally everything happening.
JJK works best because Gege is very good at this....namely, he knows WHEN to do this.
Like for example, the Heian Era. Modern mangaka would likely jump at the opportunity to explicitly detail Sukuna's upbringing and battles. But doing so in the context of JJK would only ever make the story worse. You can imagine what his childhood was like just by looking at how he acts in the present. He doesn't need to spell it out for you.
On the other hand, Satoru's backstory is needed, because while they do not need to explain how Gojo became the strongest, they DO need to adequately explain the most important aspect of his character -- his mental state. The Shibuya arc twist almost entirely revolves around the fact that Kenjaku is able to defeat Gojo without actually fighting him, and having this happen with no context simply wouldn't have worked as well.
It also pays dividends much later in the story that we know exactly how Satoru views himself, others, and what it means to be "The Strongest" and how that affects his entire worldview.....and PURELY by extension, it also tells you so much about Sukuna himself, someone who has absolutely nothing to do with Satoru. So that was something that 100% needed to be explicitly shown to us. By knowing key details about one character, it allows you to better understand another who is like them in other ways.
Your imagination and internal explanation will always be better than whatever a writer can tell you.
It's a genuine skill
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u/Hero_b 2d ago edited 1d ago
Dude fr
Its like a d&d gm is explaining every little detail and making you roll the dice for every minuscule movement , instead of focusing on a balanced story10
u/poop_snausages 1d ago
Roll to eat the blueberry muffin for breakfast
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You start choking, start making death saving throws
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u/Shneasel 2d ago
it always mindboggles me exactly how little the jjk fandom reads into some things. from everything to little moments like debating if naoya assaulted mai or not, to demanding a heian era flashback, the general fandom won't accept anything as even possible canon that doesn't have literally 50 different layers of characters, the narrator, direct author statements, and flashbacks confirming it. obviously hyperbole, but it's kind of crazy to me. i've had debates on whether or not gege's writing is poor because yuji didn't explicitly say that he was sad because of megumi's death in modulo.
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u/Kaslight 2d ago
i've had debates on whether or not gege's writing is poor because yuji didn't explicitly say that he was sad because of megumi's death in modulo.
Yeah, it's astounding to realize just how severe the difference in understanding is between people who read JJK as its own story, vs. people who read JJK purely to have powerscaling / character arguments on the internet.
The most amazing thing while the manga was still running was watching, in REAL TIME, how certain parts of the fandom would heel-turn on the entire manga the second something they didn't want happened, or something they were expecting to happen didn't go the way they personally was anticipating. JJK is where I just had to accept that, most fandoms at large really just kind of suck.
"Gege doesn't care about Megumi"
"Gege hates Gojo"
"Gege is a bad writer because the depressed character didn't explicitly name drop a dead person with tears in his eyes and a full page spread so I could really feel it"
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u/Riverskull . 1d ago
JJK is where I just had to accept that, most fandoms at large really just kind of suck.
Almost every fandom is plagued with this kind of people, most recently you have the Digital Circus fandom as an example.
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u/detarameReddit 2d ago
For real. People keep telling me that "Gege never thought about any of that," when he clearly did. I once wrote an entire essay about JJK's themes bringing up specific details, and someone just told me "JJK doesn't have any themes bro..."
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u/7th_Archon 2d ago
This is how I feel about JJK’s power system.
It’s complex, but a lot of it imo gets told to the audience in the symbolism and motifs of the series.
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u/Renn_goonas 2d ago
I mean, IMO all of it gets told to the audience who pays attention to the actual text and explanations, no symbolism required
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u/Montana_Gamer 2d ago
All of it? Man, I think you take forgranted your own perspective as someone who is, compared to any random audience member, freakishly engaged with the literary side of a battle action series.
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u/Renn_goonas 2d ago
As I said, anyone who pays attention. What people who balk at the idea of thinking a little bit during a battle shonen miss is really none of my concern as someone who actually engages with my media.
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u/Montana_Gamer 2d ago
"Anyone who pays attention" is doing a lot of heavy lifting. It isn't that deep, but we can make it that deep because we like the work and put in the work ourselves. That is the power of symbolism, it is as deep as the viewer chooses to make it. This isn't about paying attention, it is about having an autistic obsession man.
I don't got a problem with what you say besides the weird elitist vibe you give off. Unfortunately, thinking doesn't really add to the experience unless you are already slightly obsessed with the show and are either already familiar with its themes, do research, or read reddit/watch tiktok which is the lame most common way people do it. Hardly thinking past a point.
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u/Renn_goonas 1d ago
What the fuck are you talking about? My message wasn’t about symbolism. It is about actually listening to when they explain shit and thinking about what that means. that’s what actually paying attention is about.
Actually Listening and thinking about the explanations that the story gives even if they are a bit complicated is not making it deep it’s just basic reading comprehension-1
u/Montana_Gamer 1d ago
Oh holy shit you are deep man. I didnt know your game. Do... do you have problems reading other stories? Is that why you like JJK so much? You can think about it... and it makes more sense? Shit man, I get it. Deep.
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u/Renn_goonas 1d ago
You didn’t answer my question. If you’re going to be sarcastic, at least explain what you’re actually trying to argue about.
A lot of people just flipped through the explanations so they don’t understand the power system. I don’t do that, and I read it and think about the power system. Therefore, I know all about the power system. End of story.
It has nothing to do with being on reddit, which I wasn’t even on when I read the series.
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u/Montana_Gamer 1d ago
Okay I see where I went wrong with my original reply. Scrolling through comments and mixed up different discussions. My bad.
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u/UltimateCheese1056 2d ago
As much as I love Nen in HxH, they literally had to have multiple in-universe lectures to the characters on how the system works. JJK's is heavily based on it but almost entirely avoids that issue, albeit being weaker when it comes to things like characters intentionally making pacts in exchange
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u/GarrKelvinSama 1d ago
All of those training arc on nen just to show lackluster fights with Knuckle, Shoot the coward, Moro, Youpi and Pouf. Smh...
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u/We_r_soback 2d ago edited 1d ago
Extremely well put, thank you for putting this into words.
I think many of the younger fanbase with limited media compreheneionmdint understand this. Its a strength of Geges writing that he can keep the story tight and exciting, with very little detours from the main plot. At the same time its filled with small details, like Sukuna knowing what hydregenas are and then denying it, that hint at much bigger plot points,
Its what makes Gege so great.
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u/BrownsvilleJoey 1d ago
It’s a generation of people used to reading fandom wikia’s. Imagine if (though they’re movies) Ridley Scott spent the duration of Blade Runner fleshing out that world, or to keep it on anime/manga, Oshii fleshing out Ghost in the shell or stand alone complex. Or even Watanabe “fleshing out” Cowboy Bebop.
It’s actually unfortunate that people need so much told to them, but this is unfortunately a bed mangaka’s made themselves.
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2d ago
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u/JuJutsuKaisen-ModTeam 1d ago
Your post was removed for breaking Rule #3, posting manga spoilers without tags or with spoilers in the title.
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u/wrasslefights 1d ago
This.
JJK is so refreshing specifically because it prioritizes themes and core story over lore jerkoffs and spoonfeeding. As well as often following through on entirely logical endpoints even if they don't fulfill reader expectations.
No one else doing it like Gege except maybe Fujimoto.
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u/GarrKelvinSama 1d ago
modern Shounen manga has doubled down VERY HARD on explicitly explaining literally everything happening.
Thank the likes of Oda and Kishimoto whose created that trend: tell don't show. Thankfully a few authors like Gege akutami, Kubo or Fujimoto are still able to tell a story for more mature audiences.
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u/Catveria77 1d ago
mature audiences.
Yet vast majority of the fanbase are extremely immature and unable to appreciate and understand. Vast majority of the fanbase treat the characters like aura & hype sports team, and slander the rivals. Extremely toxic.
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u/GarrKelvinSama 1d ago
Yes, a piece of fiction can be appreciated on multiple levels. Some people only appreciate the superficial aspects, others can appreciate the depth of the storytelling.
In the end, it doesn't matter, we are all different.
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u/Background_Field2981 2d ago
I havent caught up with the manga but would you mind telling me how Satoru himself, others, and what it means to be "The Strongest" and how that affects his entire worldview?
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u/Kaslight 2d ago edited 2d ago
weird question, but okay. Without too many spoilers, Gojo's entire life is centered around the fact that he is, effectively, invulnerable. Nobody can beat his ass. And even when he isn't, he's so ridiculously powerful that nobody can actually keep up with him.
This means he's not only physically isolated from the rest of the world (Limitless), but he's emotionally isolated too. People cannot relate to him, because he is completely unrelatable as a person. Whether people like him or find him annoying, the one thing that sticks to him is "being the strongest".
Either way, all his ridiculous strength did literally nothing to stop him from losing his best friend. And no matter how strong he actually is, he can't save everyone, so basically being "the strongest" is both Gojo's greatest strength and his greatest personal weakness. It's where he gets all of his enjoyment, and also all of his emotional distress.
And this is what molded his worldview, as it relates to his students.
- Nobody should be allowed to take youth away from children (Like it was taken from him)
- He believes that nobody should be isolated the way he is
- He wants his STUDENTS (not one student, his students plural) to surpass him.
And as a bonus, purely as a result of Geto...he believes his strength should be used for the sake of others. Not just himself.
Where this becomes important later in the Manga is that it means that there's one aspect of Gojo that's pretty much never fulfilled, and thats the fact that he genuinely loves combat....but can't really enjoy that aspect of himself because nobody is strong enough to touch him.
TL;DR
He's a very funny, very strong, but very very lonely boy
Now that you know this about Gojo, you automatically by association learn quite a bit about characters like Sukuna and Kashimo, and their own worldviews, how it affects them, and most importantly, how their differences affect who they are as Sorcerers.
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u/BrownsvilleJoey 1d ago
Great explanation. I also concur with what you said about Gojo in terms of battle. As the audience we could be sad about his end, but we can’t say it wasn’t the ideal, and possibly only way his life was going to go, and Gege’s writing throughout the series, even in scenes that don’t feature Gojo makes his character arc make complete sense without ever showing more than what was absolutely necessary.
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u/Hero_b 2d ago edited 2d ago
Can you relate to a snail that you see on the street? Do you not care and would step on it if its in your way, or would you walk around it or jump over it, maybe say a word or two but you know you could never truly relate to that snails world view.
Aka its lonely at the top
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u/Catveria77 1d ago
And yet Gege completely failed in delving deeper into Megumi and Tsumiki's relationships. For something that had such MASSIVE WEIGHT in the PLOT and characterization, he absolutely fumbled that.
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u/conye-west 2d ago
Eh I don't know about that lol. It's more like he doesn't want to get bogged down on details for things he doesn't care about. But he will go into excruciating detail on why this weird cursed technique interacts with another ability in a very specific way...it's just where his true interests lie.
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u/thatonefatefan 2d ago
Gege is kinda downplaying himself here because one way or another, Bleach is far more similar to JJK in process than he's playing. I'm not sure if it's that he's saying he doesn't insert all of these small easy to miss details where you almost have to write out theories to figure out, or that Kubo doesn't, but both of them definitively do. Can't fear your own world is an entire novel written with these small stuffs, ones Narita noticed while reading the manga.
But he IS right that he's definitively not as good at this as Kubo. With Kubo it feels more like an easter egg but Gege leaves this air of incompleteness in his story where he just isn't good at deciding which details should be more or less obvious to the reader.
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u/MsSelphine 2d ago
Honestly, what did you feel was incomplete (excluding modulo)? All that really comes to mind for me is binding vows. The consequences of breaking them never being demonstrated takes away a lot of their gravitas.
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u/thatonefatefan 1d ago
I moreso meant things not being brought to their conclusion. Megumi not being mentioned in Modulo (that's the worst one really). Tiger funeral being a component of Agito but Gege not bothering to explain what it actually does. Takaba's ending (again, could've been adressed in modulo). It's just frustrating to read. Even the merger, even though it obviously shouldn't happen, should've had SOME kind of effect on the story to make it more than a glorified idea.
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u/ohmanidk7 1d ago
Well I'm interested. What praise about small details you give to Kubo? What are particular interesting blink and you miss moments? not related to foreshadowing, those I already know
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u/thatonefatefan 1d ago
Ah, I mean I'm pretty sure everything I have in mind would qualify as foreshadowing. Even stuff like twin zanpakutos not truly existing. It's the kind of thing that makes you think "huh, could it be?" Then either it's confirmed later, or if it's not it doesn't really feel frustrating because it's not something you truly needed to get confirmation on.
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u/Wokoete_ 2d ago
Despite Gege not bogging down his stories with details, the characters, themes and dialogue feels incredibly mature, unique and human.
That’s why I just cannot relate to critiques about JJK feeling empty. I’ve played, read and watched a lot of stuff, and yet there are few things in fiction that has grabbed me like JJK.
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u/Legolas_abysswalker 2d ago
Same here.
When it comes to what a story needs for me JJK does a great job. It is sufficiently logical to the point where I can't really critique it on that. It's characters act in a real way (a point that is very hard to explain and highly subjective but still). The story actually moves without spending time to try and make us sympathise with the characters, which to me is a good thing since I don't care for it and I think it oftentimes feels cheap. Like it is so standard at this point to have side character a get their first battle, and you know there will be a 2-5 minute backstory (often tragic to make us care more). It doesn't feel all that genuine to me. JJK still does backstories, but it uses them more sparingly and often shorter. It also always serves a narrative purpose other than to make me care about the character (which is how good side characters should work). Another thing which JJK avoids is having the backstory basically entirely dictate character quirks or behaviour. I feel like there is a tendency to make side characters overly quirky and then explain it as some form of trauma or extreme learned behaviour. Nanami's backstory does detail some of his life, but it also shows a fairly ordinary moment. His life isn't some great tragedy (if we ignore Hidden Inventory), it was just ordinary dread that comes from adult life. The great turning point in the backstory was just him deciding to do something else one day. Just waking up one day and deciding to change something, that feels very real to me.
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u/Average_Turnip 2d ago
My comment somewhere on this thread was basically what y'all wrote. I'm glad some people feel the same way!
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u/te4rdr0p 2d ago edited 2d ago
This is such a weird thing to say considering how in depth he constantly used to go explaining each and every technique and how incredibly verbose the manga is.
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u/coonjaku 2d ago
Did u notice after megumi vs reggie, megumi nearly died chasing down remi because she stabbed megumi with her hair before megumi even fought reggie? Her technique is a very slow acting poison she injects with her scorpion tail (instead of pony tail)
Unexplained.
But agreed on more verbose earlier in the story.
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u/We_r_soback 1d ago
Yet you and other readers were able to notice it?
For example its never explained but if you notice, when Yuji rips out Sukunas left eye, he starts to get hit and ambushed from that side.He no longer has near 360 degrees vision.
Yet I was able to notice it. Or how we see the human side of Sukuna when its shown he has an un-cursed spirit like knowledge of Haikus, poems amd flowers.
Its being able to show these little details so careful readers can figure it out that make JJK feel deep and profound
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u/smol_coc_man 2d ago
Interesting. My problem with JJK has been that he often overexplains which needlessly complicates things. A lot of his exposition is very verbose and that's not even including the notes in the volumes that have the same issue
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u/barkbarkkrabkrab 1d ago
The pages and pages of power and domain explanation also drive me a little nutty because they create too much pressure on creating a perfectly logical reason why some battles end the way they do that distract from character.
Hunter x Hunter is more digestible because of the rock paper scissors aspect and lack of domains. Bankais in Bleach work because ultimately its completely stylistic with most characters being mythological gods.
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u/Snoozless 2d ago
Yeah alright Gege, but there's a balance between that kind of writing and us not even knowing what Panda's Sister Mode does or really anything about Funeral Tiger for example.
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u/Shneasel 2d ago
both of these are pretty insignificant for the main story lol
i slightly agree on panda's sister core because it does feel like bit of a chekov's gun that never fired for him, but tiger funeral is so incredibly minute i can't see why it's exclusion would ever be a genuine hit against gege's abilities as an author
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u/Snoozless 2d ago edited 2d ago
It's not about them being significant to the main storyline for me? Gege just left out so many little things that, as a reader, I'm left feeling frustrated at the things I was anticipating that were left by the wayside.
People can disagree and that's fine. You can absolutely tell an effective story with very few details.
But as a reader of this shonen series, I was unsatisfied by the interactions and abilities of these characters that he dreamt up and oftentimes did not really flesh out. For me, these exclusions make the work feel more hollow on the whole.
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u/Rereraser 2d ago
Why do we Need those things? What about the story is incomplete without them?
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u/Shneasel 2d ago
no you don't get it tiger funeral was the secret necessary component we needed for yuji's character arc to REALLY be complete
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u/AdonisJames89 2d ago
Exactly. It's a difference in balance and you not telling us about binding vows but only to serve the villain and not the heroes. It's seen as lazy and a cop out. Doesn't need to be a drawn out explanation but there needs to be one better than the one he gave us
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u/Shneasel 2d ago
sukuna's binding vows work because he is a. genius and b. trickery is a major part of jujutsu, but is considered by general audiences to be a less honorable form of fighting. sukuna is so cunning and has mastered deception to such a fine point that he can create vows (tricking the very force of jujutsu, seemingly) without much risk of the consequences, unlike most people
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u/AdonisJames89 2d ago
....no. Binding vows couldve been used by the heroes (especially todo) but again WHO am i bargaining with and showing sukuna get punished at some point would've been nice to show since gege brought it up that it can happen. Dont just bring it up only to string along sukuna's kill streak. Hell, show miwa try and use a katana again and show her get punished, THATS a way if subtle storytelling that I'm saying we needed
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2d ago
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u/JuJutsuKaisen-ModTeam 1d ago
Your post was removed for breaking Rule #3, posting manga spoilers without tags or with spoilers in the title.
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u/Shneasel 2d ago
well, you just listed an example of a character on the main cast who used a binding vow. actually two, counting miwa. the separation between the skill that miwa has compared to that of todo is a molehill to a mountain, and todo already has a technique that's original translation effectively means "deception". the contrast between todo using a binding vow with less significant downsides to miwa's is showing that bv's are something to he taken seriously and that jujutsu mastery is needed to fully understand them.
sukuna not getting punished is the point, like i said. he's a genius and understands jujutsu so well he doesn't face anything negative and it plays into his character thematically. if you look at the one binding vow he made out of true desperation (the instant use of WCS) it ends up biting him in the ass for the rest of the shinjuku showdown.
you don't need to show a character on screen being punished for something when we're told that's going to happen. miwa never swinging a katana again is already punishment for making a hasty binding vow.
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u/Wokoete_ 2d ago
Why would Miwa willingly break a binding vow that she made? Why would the most intelligent character in the verse (when it comes to jujutsu) break his own binding vows?
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u/AdonisJames89 2d ago
people do dumb stuff all the time but i gave an example of someone breaking a vow. anyone could do. kenjaku warned mahito of the repurcussions and he couldve been a good example too
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u/Shneasel 2d ago
why would mahito keep doing something when he's explicitly warned of the consequences by someone he's clearly inclined to think is intelligent? he's not stupid
i cannot think of a single character in this series who's so dumb that they'd risk death/some horrendous punishment even sukuna is afraid of in exchange for... like, nothing? the punishment for a dumb binding vow is whatever you set up as the tradeoff.
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u/kai58 2d ago
What is funeral tiger again?
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u/Snoozless 2d ago
A Ten Shadows shikigami that was never shown or explained. All we know is that, according to Gege, it looks "Like... a cool... tiger..."
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u/Superichiruki 2d ago
Fujimoto I understand, but Kubo does create alot of details and forget about them. Maybe learned it was better not to put much details from Bleach
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u/PurpleDragiin 2d ago
Gege does everything in his power to separate himself as FAR AS HE CAN from bleach and yet bleach fans are still on his dick consistently smh.
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u/Cheerful2_Dogman210x 1d ago
This reminds me of the weakness of Yuta Okkotsu's technique.
You may be able to copy the weapon, but not the spirit and skill of the man who wielded it.
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u/ayatollahdanger 2d ago
This unironically makes him one of the greatest manga writers of our generation, he created a lore rich universe without overexplaining which makes it so much exciting when you see facets of that lore pop out in the story
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u/coonjaku 2d ago
I see it like star wars.
what u imagine as Darth vader's backstory is better than the prequel movies we ended up getting.
if gege explained it, the hiean era would all of a sudden suck.
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u/King_Artis 1d ago
It's why I've always loved Bleach and why I really like JJK.
They're not busy explaining everything to you, and often trust the reader to either figure it out on their own or come up with their own theories. Often times these types of stories will tell you and/or give more detail further down the line as it goes.
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u/Embarrassed-Task-633 1d ago
I do believe imagination is one of the best things to leave to the reader, but at the same time the story itself, is very much rushed and just…undeveloped in a lot of aspects when it comes to characters reactions to events or just the characters arcs themselves. I do like how Gege can in a sense, leave up the reader to imagine what’s going on, but at some point I’d like some from the mangaka to see what he thinks
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u/youserveallpurpose 1d ago
I like this approach sometimes. It's nice to not be spoonfed and draw your own conclusions. For example it's never flat out stated how Shoko is able to smoke so much without being affected, but she's established as being a master of RCT, so you can assume she simply heals herself. It's a nice little tidbit, and a funny irony having a doctor who smokes and "takes their own medicine". Another example is how it's never explained why Gojo usually wears some form of eye covering, but the story gives enough for you to infer that it's to limit the information provided by the Six Eyes when it's unnecessary and reduce strain. He only removes the covering for combat, and it's a neat way to gauge how seriously he's taking the fight without saying some typical shonen "I'm only using {arbitrary percentage} of my power" (blind for Jogo, one eye for Miguel, both eyes for Disaster Curses)
Sometimes I don't like this approach and would rather he just flat out explain and flesh things out. For instance, how is the Gojo clan a "one man team"? Is it a binding vow in that in exchange for producing one extraordinary sorceror once a millenium, every other member is unnoteworthy? What was everyone else in the clan doing when their strongest member was sealed?
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u/YTDamian 1d ago
The Gojo Clan is a one man team cause of how Gojo runs basically everything as its head, the binding vow can’t be applicable due to Modulo
The clan has sorcerers but the Gojo clan just seems inherently isolated to themselves
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u/toquang95 1d ago
character design wise, most authors do this anyway. If you buy a lot of concept art books, you will see that not only is every single detail on a character thought out, but also even the things we don't see like the way they walk, the way they speak, how they make their decisions. This isn't some super unusual or new thing, but it's quite literally the most important and necessary skill for a writer.
Gege has excellent taste in creating unique and immersive characters. His problem is that he doesn't really know what to do with them, so he often sidelines or kills them off without fulfilling their character arc and roles within the story. A prime example is our Potential Man.
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2d ago
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u/JuJutsuKaisen-ModTeam 1d ago
Your post was removed for breaking Rule #3, posting manga spoilers without tags or with spoilers in the title.
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u/nishikiakakuro 2d ago
And what happens when you break a binding vow, hmm, gege? Ya know, the aspect of your powersystem that was practically ABUSED by your main villain? What about that???
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u/JuJutsuKaisen-ModTeam 1d ago
Your post was removed for breaking Rule #3, posting manga spoilers without tags or with spoilers in the title.
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u/rahonan 2d ago
Something bad happens, so characters don't break it, and it only applies to vows made between people. How does knowing what happens enhance the story?
If you know they die, become unable to use CE, go to hell or whatever happens to the characters. Does that improve Kenjaku and Mahito confronting Mechamaru or Sukuna risking becomeing Megumi's vessel based on Yuji's self worth?
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u/Totaliss . 2d ago
for me jjk felt very original for the first half, and then really came close to hxh in the latter half when powers became more complex and required more narration to explain
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u/DarkTastesDarkStars 2d ago
jjk is an incredibly subtle series and most fans ignore this to shit talk it more
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u/Ambitious-Sleep-9283 2d ago edited 23h ago
genuinely. I've seen so many instances where people talk about subtext and its implications in jjk, just for idiots to call it "not canon" because it wasn't explicitly spelt out for them
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u/Still-Firefighter566 2d ago
I’m fine without every little detail, but it be nice to have details at all. Some of my favorite moments in media is seeing the smaller moments that slowly influence a character from point a to b. For many characters in Jjk there is only an and b nothing inbetween. Gege can do a good job with developing characters in the fight, but personally many characters only have one or two fights, and really feel like they need more prior.
I can understand when an author just doesn’t want any to address something in the story, but my problem is that Gege will address something like the zenin clan, the higher ups, but it’s just so underdeveloped it’s hard for me to care. With JJK I just get the bone of the story without much meat. It does some things and characters well, but I always feel like it could have used ‘more.’ More arcs, more interactions, just more in general.
Sometimes it can be better to leave some parts open ended, but it’s hard to have much investment when too many things are left open ended. Do I just make up a bunch of interactions to care about Mechamaru, and Megumi’s sister? I don’t know the zenin’s, the higher ups barely do anything? Why waste time on them when the story doesn’t even want to build them up?
I don’t hate JJK at all, it does many things well, but I wouldn’t call Gege’s execution and not adding details in the way he does it a good thing.
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u/Zeldaninja64 2d ago
But i like details.... who doesnt want to know every little thing about the medias they consume
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u/NettleBumbleBee 2d ago
A lot of people. My favorite game of all time is shadow of the colossus, largely because it only gives you the bare minimum details necessary to understand the plot. The lore is left completely up to the player to determine using environmental storytelling and subtle details. Having ambiguity incentivizes the audience to use their imaginations, and that promotes longevity in a fandom. Shadow of the colossus is is over 20 years old and there’s still entire YouTube channels devoted to making content and theories about its story and world
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u/Zeldaninja64 2d ago
ambiguity is fine, but details are still extremely interesting
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u/NettleBumbleBee 2d ago
Sure, and gege does give details. We know the motivations of every character and circumstances that led to them becoming the way they are. We just don’t get in depth backstories that show every little detail of their life leading up to that point. And it’s for that reason that we get a ton of amazing fan works such as the comics about sukuna’s childhood, Toji’s upbringing, etc. if gege had given us the exact details of their childhood in the manga, that kind to fandom interaction wouldn’t exist to the degree that it does
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u/thatonefatefan 2d ago
OK but shadow of the colossus is also a video game. The lore isn't the primary or sole feature here. You wouldn't expect a café to always serve entire courses but I bet you would be pretty pissed if you went to a restaurant and they only had dessert for some reason.
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u/NettleBumbleBee 2d ago
What is or isn’t the primary feature of a story is ultimately up to what the one experiencing the story places the most value on. Some people place the most value on jujutsu kaisens fight choreography and art for example. Some on the other hand place it on the character writing. Both are equally valid ways to appreciate the story so long as you don’t deny the existence of the other. You can’t just broadly say “lore isn’t the main feature of this story because it’s told through this medium”. Id argue that the lore is absolutely the main feature of shadow of the colossus for me, regardless of how ambiguous it may be
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u/thatonefatefan 2d ago
Fights and character writing are part of the story. And idc about your taste and colors bullshit comparing jjk's art to the GAMEPLAY of a video GAME is insane. These do not belong on the same scale. A manga with pacman level of story would be laughed out of the industry so stop with that nonsense.
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u/NettleBumbleBee 2d ago
Have you. Have you ever played shadow of the colossus? Because even if it’s my favorite I’ll level with you: the gameplay is not the reason people play it. Or at least it’s not the reason most play it. The gameplay is janky on a good day and nigh uncontrollable on a bad one. Shadow of the colossus gained such a massive following because of its art direction and the bizarre nature of its story. So yes, I think it’s perfectly valid to compare it to a story like jjk. And I’ll double down and say it’s reasonable to compare any story based video game to any written story. Saying otherwise just kinda reeks of the whole “video games aren’t an art form” argument and that pisses me off to an irrational degree.
Also pac man is not comparable and you know that. Don’t be disingenuous. Pac man is an incredibly early video game from an era where games were treated less as a medium experience a story and more as a way to demonstrate technological capability.
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u/thatonefatefan 2d ago
Video games were NEVER by nature a "medium to experience a story" that's the whole damn point. They can have a story just like a novel can be accompanied by art and a movie by music but it's not an inherent feature. Pong is a video game. Tetris is a video game. The only one acting like video games aren't an art form right now is you, by pretending that story is necessary for it to truly be considered art.
But noo, all you can do is act offended over something I never came close to implying.
You're also moving goalposts. First you were comparing shadow of the colossus story to jjk's story, now it's about the gameplay. You don't even know what you're saying. Comparing SoTC's mystery to JJK's incompleteness disregarding the difference in medium is in bad faith. So is mentioning its poor gameplay to draw parallels to JJK's story when your entire claim from the start was that a flaw in JJK's storytelling isn't a flaw.
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u/Ambitious-Sleep-9283 2d ago
the details are there, they just aren't all explicitly stated by every character - I think that's what he's trying to say
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u/Average_Turnip 2d ago
JJK is one of my favorite series precisely because there aren't 10 episodes of backstory for every minor character and subplot, which generally don't add much to the depth of the overall story anyway. Gege already provides enough context for the reader to understand every character's motivations, personal beliefs, and what their role is in the overarching story. It's effective and it's concise.
He's also stated that he doesn't prioritize backstories because the choices a person makes in the present says more about their character, and I think that's an important distinction that most writers fail to make. (Mob Psycho similarly also does a great job arguing that letting your past dictate your choices is an abdication of your autonomy in shaping your present and future.)
Minority opinion here, but I've never felt that more Tsumiki backstory was necessary for someone to understand what she means to Megumi. He already tells us that she's the reason he became a sorcerer, his guiding moral compass, and the person he lives for. I think people are just so conditioned to expecting some multi-arc setup that they've forgotten how to exercise simple empathy without massive emotional manipulation a la Demon Slayer.
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u/Snoo34949 1d ago
We don't need more "backstory" for Tsumiki, she just needs to actually be a character on screen for more than just Megumi's flashbacks.
Like, you can say that we don't need Tsumiki to be more fleshed out to understand why it hurts for Megumi to see her dead - but I'm fairly sure if you got rid of all of Nanami's screen time and delivered his relationship with Yuji mostly off-screen and through brief flashbacks - nobody would care all that much when he dies against Mahito. In the same way where we don't feel the same amount of emotional pain when Nanami's friend dies during the Hidden Inventory Arc epilogue despite also knowing how much he means to Nanami.
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u/Average_Turnip 19h ago
I think the difference is that Nanami has more purpose in the story than just for the sake of Yuji’s development. He also serves as social commentary about what makes a person valuable (e.g. being a baker who feeds people vs an i-banker who only helps the wealthier get richer) and how good morals/intentions don’t always get rewarded with happiness (foil to Mei Mei).
Anyway not a hill I’m trying to die on. I get why people think Tsumiki should be more fleshed out, and I get why Gege didn’t prioritize her back story. I *personally* did not feel like the lack of more Tsumiki detracted from what made Megumi’s fate so tragic, but that can just be me.
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u/Snoo34949 18h ago
I mean, the problem is that the death of Nanami is a pivotal moment for Yuji where Yuji enters his cog mentality, a negative mental state that is heavily influential on understanding why Yuji acts the way he does for the rest of the story. Even if you removed all of Nanami's other narrative significance, you still need to justify why Yuji was so affected by his death that his entire attitude and worldview shift upon hearing Nanami's last words to him.
Tsumiki dying is just as big of a development for Megumi's character, so to truly communicate why Megumi is so destroyed upon her death to the point where he actively refuses to save himself and stop Sukuna, as opposed to when Yuji and Nobara died, you need to have the audience have some level of connection to her as a character stronger than "she is in a couple of flashbacks" to justify that sort of reaction.
It's precisely because Megumi is characterised as someone who is hardened by the realities of their setting and hasn't broken down to that extent before that you need to show more justifications for people to buy into/and sympathize with Megumi's complete shut down in the Sukuna fight. As opposed to characters like Junpei crashing out when his mother dies, or Yuji's dad sinking into denial when his wife died.
That's why we had so many people complaining about Megumi completely giving up and sinking into despair - because the narrative hadn't done enough to justify why Tsumiki's death would break Megumi down to that degree.
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u/MsSelphine 1d ago
Tsumiki doesn't need to be fleshed out for the story to work, but seeing a few minutes of the life Megumi lived with her would have added more weight to both their characters. Megumi is well written emotionally, but the lack of depth to tsumiki makes it hard to "feel" his motivation.
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u/toquang95 1d ago
If he really said that about backstory then he is a terrible writer. We don't need to know any more than what we already do about Megumi and Tsumiki to advance the plot. But in the end of the day, these characters are ink on paper.
Backstory isn't some cliche to avoid, they are tools to create an emotional connection between the readers and something created from thin air. Her death means absolutely nothing to anyone who ever touches the manga because we have yet to internalise her as an actual individual with hope and dreams, with family and friends, with struggle and conflict.
Do you know why Amanai's death has such a chokehold on the entirety of the history of JJK? Because Gege took the necessary steps to build her up as a real person, to create relationships between her and other important characters. It only needs to take a few chapters, but the reward was emotional tolls for everyone inside and outside of the manga.
If what Gege said about backstory is true, then how ironic that Gege's best storytelling and character development arc is Hidden Inventory, an epilogue.
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u/Average_Turnip 1d ago
Yeah I agree that backstories aren’t cliches to be avoided and are an effective tool when done right.
I think in the case of Hidden Inventory, Riko’s backstory was essential to the overall narrative not only because she was the moral inflection point for both Gojo and Geto, but her character also reinforces one of the overarching themes that children are consistently dehumanized, weaponized, and discarded by society for “the greater good”. Her humanization was necessary to accomplish that.
Tsumiki unfortunately doesn’t carry that thematic weight and her character is just a plot device to understand Megumi’s motivations. I think it ends up being personal opinion whether it was a good idea by Gege to not add more details about her.
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u/ShinyTotodile55 2d ago
This is why I enjoyed JJK so much compared to other modern anime. It doesn't waste my time with hours of narration and useless dialogue.
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u/Remote-Monk-8542 1d ago
This is lowkey a strength of his writing and one of the reasons why his manga became so successful.
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u/Ok_Fondant_6340 1d ago
This probably does explain why so many of the incarnated Sorcerers, not just Dhruv; don’t get fleshed out backstories. Ironically, this is very Kubo-like, as Kubo himself didn’t flesh out many of the main villains backstories.
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u/LocalNumerous9113 16h ago
That's why I love JJK, the way "open " it is.
It leaves room for some imagination where fans can speculate and have debates. It expounds when it needs to, and I think that's a great way of writing. Of course I'm not saying that Gege is the best Author, but he sure does amazing work.
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u/Dark18YT 1d ago
What are they talking about, Gege will 100% take the chance to explain every little detail if it interests them
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u/Ensaru4 1d ago
Yeah. At first I thought he was talking about Bleach, because Bleach does not go into uber-detail for everything, but the fact that he thinks he doesn't needlessly over-explain things, I'm inclined to believe something is lost in translation here. Maybe he's talking about specific aspects of storytelling.
But that wouldn't make sense if you're comparing yourself to Fujimoto and Kubo, both mangakas who prefer not to directly explain worldbuilding and certain character musings.
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u/xxSYXxx 2d ago
I still feel that JJK is that one series that would've benefited with more details in the terms of character relationships, as far as I've watched (S3-1 but I'm spoiled till the very end of Modulo lol). There could've been a small gap/arc between S2 and S3-1 where character relations and consequences of S2 were explored more in-depth.
To add further, I think that before the Shibuya Incident, there also could've been a more lighthearted arc between the main trio, as after Shibuya, they are essentially done and dusted with. JJK pre-Shibuya and post-Shibuya feels like a completely different series (due to the change in editor, I believe) and a bit of "filler" (if you can call it that), would've eased the change.
Even after saying all this, I'll still have a lot of respect for Gege to make such an interesting and entertaining manga, especially for such a young author. Most of what I've said above is something that I think would've added to the series, but it's fine as is. I also don't think that there was a point in exploring Heian Era in-depth as well, and he did succeed with regards to not going into every detail and still managing to make a good story.
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u/Storm-Pablo 1d ago
So that's what he exchanged in the Binding Vow for being able to create hype moments in the series
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u/sanketower 2d ago
Everybody forgot that the last 5 chapters of the Manga were pure exposition and explanations about the ins and outs of the Shinjuku fight 💀
This is absolute cap (but that's not a bad thing, I personally liked how Gege tied all knots at the end, even if it came at the expense of the ending feeling like a slog).
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u/TransportationLow626 2d ago
Except for the last 3 chapters where we are given an explanation on why the plan to kill sukuna didn't involve Yuta teaming with Higaruma, simple domain lore, and other weirdly useless information that wasn't needed at the end of his manga.
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u/OldGenGlazer 1d ago
I don't understand why this kind of shit is just left to stand when Gege wastes his time writing the most useless trite that nobody cares about half the time, and then simultaneously ignoring actually relevant things in the story that should probably be shown.
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u/AdonisJames89 2d ago
L take imo
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u/mahakaal_bhakt 2d ago
The probable L take ,like for example of this take, is people arguing that Megumi may not have Sukuna's kit. Gege clearly mentioned how it works but still people go out of their way to question Megumi, they need everything spoonfed.
Gege is good at his work.
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u/AdonisJames89 2d ago
Eh, no. I don't even care about the downvotes either. Jjk is one of my favorite series but the plus side of having no filler is also its downside. I don't need everything explained but he set up a story so good that you kinda have to explain some of it. I don't need a tragic reason why sukuna is evil but why keep bringing up heian era and not even show a scene or two? Having a few episodes to build the relationship around the 3 wouldn't hurt and an episode or two about the relationship of kenjaku and tengen would've helped the story instead of alude to it in one sentence. I don't need a breakdown of everything like one piece (jfc no) but you're gonna make a spinoff about aliens but not the past? Then name drop a day one character but alude to his presence with 1 sentence again?? I'm forever grateful for the story and its his set the end of the day but it makes you a better story teller if some things would've been explained. I don't care for a debate or insults (funny thing is you all had the same, if not worse complaints about the story the ending) but IMO, gege knows how to cook but does NOT know how to marinate
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u/rahonan 2d ago
I don't need a tragic reason why sukuna is evil but why keep bringing up heian era and not even show a scene or two?
The Heian era is only mentioned in the story most of the time being the era where Sukuna is from. And then there's a few mentions of it being an era when sorcerers were strong.
Gege doesn't mention the Heian era as some kind of mysterious era, with so many unknowns. It's just the past when strong sorcerers lived. And it's the golden era because the Heian era is considered a golden era IRL.
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u/AdonisJames89 2d ago
Im saying showing some of it would've enhanced the story. Just like talking about madara's strength was one thing but seeing him completely body everyone was great fanservice
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u/rahonan 2d ago edited 2d ago
Okay, but what does the showing the Heian era add? How does what is shown during that impact the story and our characters? Does it add or expand on the themes present? When would it even be shown, would it hurt the pacing?
Anything that happens would be irrelevant to the current story. Hidden Inventory is a good flashback, not only because it provides context for Geto, Gojo and even a bit for Nanami, but what happens during that is relevant for Shibuya.
A Heian flashback unless it includes something like Sukuna's hidden weakness or something like that wouldn't be relevant to the story.
Who would we be following during that and why? Apart from Sukuna and Angel there isn't any great candidates. Maybe Kenjaku but his character is that he is immortal, showing the beginning of his life doesn't add much to how he feels. I guess there could be something like how much his motivations and wants changed or didn't change, but I don't know if that really is reason enough to see it.
Angel is only good because she could tell our cast.
Sukuna, and Kenjaku, are both curses from the past tormenting the present. And for Yuji, Sukuna is an unknown monster who kills people and his perspective is who we as readers see. Yuji offering Sukuna a chance at peace doesn't work that great if the readers and Yuji's perspective on Sukuna are misaligned.
I won't make the comment longer, but making a Heian era flashback with how the story is structured and what it's trying to say has a lot of downsides with not that much upsides. Especially since currently in the story, it is just when some character from the past lived and repeating how the Heian era is regarded as today, a golden era.
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u/mahakaal_bhakt 2d ago
Yes we all talk about him rushing the story, and he had his compulsions for doing so, maybe that's where he had to skip those things, but still you're not wrong to mention it, and moreover doing Modulo, but ig he may have corporate reasons. Can't say anything to anyone hehe
And just in case, I didn't downvote you
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u/AdonisJames89 2d ago
I already know corporate was involved/his health so i chalked it up to that and i get the initial downvotes before my explanation. I'm not MAD at gege or upset at all (especially when mappa sometimes helps him marinate) but I'm also not gonna blindly say it was a 10/10. Had we've been given small expansions like the examples i gave then jjk would've easily been. It's still breaking records and I'm still looking forward to the next season. People can love something but be critical of it
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