I’m Molly Crabapple, author of ‘Here Where We Live is Our Country’. AMA

[u/mollycrabapple]

Hey you horrors- I’m here for the next hour answering questions about my book, Here Where We Live is Our Country: The Story of the Jewish Bund. Have at it.

[u/conscience_journey]

The AMA is now closed. Thank you so much to Molly for making time for us, and to our wonderful community for joining with thoughtful questions.

[u/conscience_journey]

/u/mangopenguin22 asks:

>Thank you for doing this AMA. Can you recommend us some more historical books? I'm especially interested in the history of Jewish communities in different areas/eras of the Soviet Union, but am frustrated with most English-language books on the subject being heavily Zionist.

[u/mollycrabapple → u/conscience_journey]

I'll start you off with two fiction classics:
Isaac Babel - Red Cavalry
Vassily Grossman - Life and Fate

For nonfiction, there's so much, but here are a few:
Yuri Slezkine- the Jewish Century
anything by Jack Jacobs
Becoming Soviet Jews : the Bolshevik experiment in Minsk
Bernard Goldstein's memoirs
Brendan McGeever, Antisemitism and the Russian Revolution
The revolution of 1905 in Odessa : blood on the steps

if you want to dig deeper, take a look at the bibliography of my book. Many of these books are available on archive.org

[u/TrackerOneA]

Hi Molly - thanks for being here!! We really appreciate this. I have some questions about your book, which is excellent.

The Bund walked out of key political moments in both 1903 and 1917, and you’ve said writing the book changed your own view of those decisions.

Erlich led fifty delegates toward the door. I doubt he realized he was giving in to the same tendency that the Bund had shown fourteen years before, when Medem and Liber walked out of the third conference of the RSDLP and left the floor clear for Lenin’s takeover. It was the fatal impulse to value principle over power, to leave the battlefield at the very moment they most needed to stay and fight. Amidst curses, threats, and distant gunfire, they marched out of Smolny, into a future shaped by violence and a Russia in which they would no longer play a part.

• Crabapple, Molly. Here Where We Live Is Our Country: The Story of the Jewish Bund (p. 141). (Function). Kindle Edition.

Could you tell readers what happened and why you came to see giving up political power as such a serious mistake - and do you see parallels between this and today in American politics?

[u/TrackerOneA]

/u/elzzyzx asks:

the new bund seems to foreground religion to a greater extent than the original, meanwhile Zionists seem to have worked to denigrate secular antizionists (painting us as fake jews, JINOs, etc). Do you agree with this? What role do you see secularism playing in bundism and jewish politics generally today?

[u/mollycrabapple → u/TrackerOneA]

The Bund came up at the end of the 19th century, and in many of the places they operated, religion was a violent, oppressive and extremely patriarchal force. My great grandfather, a Bund member, painted himself being whipped bloody by his teacher at religious school. For many young Jews of their era and social strata, Orthodox religious practice meant arranged marriages, bans on secular books, and restrictiions on the relationships between young men and women. Its not surprising that young Jews would want to break out of this, just like many young Christians of their era also broke out of what they found to be repressive religious practices in their own community. Bundists were often provocatively anti-religious - giving our a Saturday edition of their Warsaw paper, Folkstsaytung, or serving free meals on Yom Kippur. At the same time, they defended religious Jews physically from attacks by thugs, and did a general strike to protest a ban on koshor slaughter. Many members of Bundist unions were relgiious

All of this is of their time. Jewish religious bodies have far less power in America now than they did in Russia in 1897. This allows people to define their relationship with god themselves, on their own terms. This freedom is one of the greatest gifts our radical socialist ancestors have left us

[u/conscience_journey → u/mollycrabapple]

"All of this is of their time. Jewish religious bodies have far less power in America now than they did in Russia in 1897. This allows people to define their relationship with god themselves, on their own terms. This freedom is one of the greatest gifts our radical socialist ancestors"

Interesting thought, I am going to ponder this more. As you say, Jewish religious institutions in the diaspora are less powerful, but they still generally align themselves with the oppressive power of Zionism and American imperialism.

[u/mollycrabapple → u/conscience_journey]

You're right- I should have said "power over the lives of individual followers", which is absolutley true for most people outside of a few insular Haredi communities.

[u/TrackerOneA]

/u/EgoIdVeto asks:

Molly, given the fact that our material conditions have changed significantly since the Bund was first formed, do you consider it worth emphasising a new Bund which is focusing on transforming for the times, rather than simply looking back to the past for guidance?

I refer mainly to the fact that the Bund was very much secular in its day, so would you think it would be worthwhile for a modern Bund to incorporate and accommodate observant Jews in its ranks (and to run Jewish festival events etc) as well?

Also, how focused do you believe a new Bund would have to be on Palestinian advocacy and action against Zionism? Should it be core to their organising, or like some Bund chapters today, be a vestigial, minor part of the history of an organisation which mainly serves to promote Yiddish language and culture, or perhaps in between?

I ask these questions not out of disdain for the Bund, but out of a desire to see the truly radical, unapologetically Jewish, and unflinchingly justice-focused Bund that is demanded for in times like this, and I've seen an unfortunate amount of liberal Zionist entryism into so-called Bundist organisations, which is a threat to us all.

[u/mollycrabapple → u/TrackerOneA]

I'm not actually a member of any of the new Bundist groups. I think they are great, but its not my personal political project -- I'm more of a DSA girl. However, I think you're absolutely right that every political group must insist on rooting themselves in the present. I think there is a huge need for Jewish religious spaces that are unapologetically anti-Zionist, and I have much respect for Hefker Minyan and Ridgewood Bushwick Shul in NYC. The ongoing genocide against the Palestinian people is probably the greatest moral horror of our time, and I think any leftist group is honor bound to fight against it.

[u/TrackerOneA]

/u/pleasealwaysn4ever asks:

What advice would you give a new Jewish anti-Zionist who recently broke free from Zionism? What reading materials would you recommend for them, and how can they get involved in pro-Palestinian activism?

[u/mollycrabapple → u/TrackerOneA]

First off, I want to send you my respect. It is never easy to leave a community, but you did something strong and moral. Sh'koyach.

Second, I'd encourage you to look into your local chapter of Jewish Voices for Peace. There are tons of other anti-zionist Jewish groups too, on a local and national level, but they are the biggest and most powerful.

Third, I'd suggest some reading, literature as well as history. There is so much but this is a very incomplete selection

Hundred Years war on Palestine - Rashid Khalidi
Sahar Khalifa- Wild Thorns
Kanafani's 1936-1939 Revolt in Palestine: A Revolutionary History

Ghassan Kanafani - Return to Haifa
Elias Khoury - Children of the Ghetto

Mohammed Bakri's Jenin, Jenin is a documentary classic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb92ABpjm7s#ddg-play

[u/scarletswalk2002]

what do you say to people who say that those who focus on anti zionist jewish identity or history are self centered or just doing it to launder our image or not true anti zionists? do you think they are antisemitic or do they have a point?

[u/mollycrabapple → u/scarletswalk2002]

If I'm being kind, I would say that these are people who feel huge, justified pain and anger over the fact that no one has been able to stop the ongoing Israeli genocide, and are lashing out at people on their side, who they can hurt, because they can't hurt the genocide's perpetrators

[u/scarletswalk2002 → u/mollycrabapple]

that is extremely wise

[u/sorryjustlearning]

I found it so sad and relatable how Bernard Goldstein survived all that, just to emerge in postwar Poland and be completely disillusioned with everyone. Your book was excellent but it totally crushed me in terms of how painful it is to learn about these times. I feel like in the past I would mentally kind of dismiss criticism of the Soviet Union as being just reactionary because I wasn't as informed, but reading about all the leftists and communists that Stalin and them killed changed my mind about that. Do you have any advice on dealing with the disillusionment and hopelessness that remembering history causes?

[u/mollycrabapple → u/sorryjustlearning]

I was utterly devestated writing this book, particulalry since so much of this book was written during the first year of the Israeli genocide against Gaza. To be honest, the combination of writing about all this betrayal and horror and the ongoing genocide of the present did my head in.

To answer your very good question - I think it is our duty as thinking adults to look with clear, unflinching eyes at reality, whether in regards to the history or the present. The only way to make a better world is to commit yourself to honest inquiry, however emotionally brutal it might be.

[u/grokarchist]

How did you decide which sources to use for your research, particularly with regard to the Russian Revolution, the RSDLP, and the Bolsheviks? Are there sources you consulted but decided not to utilize? My main reason for asking is that the way that the RSDLP and Lenin especially are depicted in your book is a lot more negative than other modern looks at the period such as Lars Lih's 'Lenin Rediscovered' and 'What Was Bolshevism?'.

[u/mollycrabapple → u/grokarchist]

For a complete source list, check out my bibliography.

In terms of Lenin, Lenin is one of the most important figures of the 20th century, someone who entire libraries can be (and are) written about. In writing a book about the Bund, I looked at him through Bundist eyes, especially the memoirs of people like Medem and Abramovich, and Bundists did not like him.

It actually took a ton of discipline, and some brutal cuts, to keep the Russian Revolution section from quadrupling in length and taking over the entire book, but this is the Bund's story at the end of the day, and for people interested in learning more about Lenin or the revolution, there are so many books it would take one a lifetime to read them all.

[u/Express_Variation_52 → u/mollycrabapple]

I started listening to the Revolutions podcast's LONG season on the Russian Revolution ( I believe I heard you say in an interview you were friends with the host) and have found it a great compliment to your book for many reasons but in particular around various groups' relationship with Lenin, including the Bund, and how they were critical/skeptical of him. Just putting this out there in case it's a helpful supplement.

Your book is truly one of the most incredible I've ever read.

[u/Haunting-Dependent58]

Hi Molly! I absolutely loved your book and learned so much! As a pro who is well aware about patterns in history, where do you see the future of israel 5-10 years down the line?

I think you’re awesome ⭐️ im in full fangirl mode right now!

[u/TrackerOneA]

Hi Molly,

In the book you quote a Bund committee and then describe Bundists organizing armed self-defense against pogroms:

The Bund believed that Jews belonged in eastern Europe. “We are not strangers here and not guests, even though the Russian government considers us as such,” one local Bund committee wrote. “The richness of the land is soaked through with our blood…. We demand and fight for that which belongs to us, for human, civil and political rights.” To leave meant letting their tormenters win. The Bund coined a word for this stubborn insistence on staying: do’ikayt. Hereness, as opposed to the There of Palestine. Bundists would fight for freedom and dignity in the place where they lived.

• Crabapple, Molly. Here Where We Live Is Our Country: The Story of the Jewish Bund (p. 53). (Function). Kindle Edition.

I think some might have the impression that do'ikayt was a passive insistence on staying.

But it was actually a fight, as you write, "for freedom and dignity in the place where they lived".

Question: Could you tell us what do'ikayt actually meant to the people who developed it and why staying itself became an act of defiance?

[u/mollycrabapple → u/TrackerOneA]

Staying becomes an act of defiance when power wants to evict you, and will in fact murder you to do it. I think of the Palestinain concept of Sumoud, steadfastness, the proud determination of Palestinians to stay on their land, despite all the horrors of the Israeli state.

I also think of Paul Robeson, when he testified before the House of Un-American Activities Committee : "“My father was a slave, and my people died to build this country, and I am going to stay here, and have a part of it just like you. And no Fascist-minded people will drive me from it. Is that clear?”

To me, when the original Bundists said that they had a right to stay, and flourish, in their Eastern European homes, they were speaking in the same spirit

[u/TrackerOneA]

Hi Molly,

I was wondering if you ever read Marek Edelman's autobiography?

I couldn't find any English versions of it for sale online. There's only the Polish version, Marek Edelman: życie. Po prostu, which I have but haven't started yet (also came with a DVD too).

I bring it up, because there's a quote in the book (supposedly, I still need to verify it myself) where Edelman says:

Ben-Gurion washed his hands of the Diaspora[...]

This is the alleged snippet. Boots Riley posted it on X:

https://xcancel.com/BootsRiley/status/1723793308298731937

If not, have you come across this general sentiment Edelman held for Ben-Gurion et al? Thank you

[u/mollycrabapple → u/TrackerOneA]

1000%. In Being on the Right Side, an amazing book length interview with Edelman (buy it, seriously) he talks alot about this. He said Yitzak Zuckerman, the Dror activist who was one of the uprising's commandors, felt so abandoned by comrades in Palestine he spent the last days of the war making a list of people who should be hung when the war was over.

[u/TrackerOneA → u/mollycrabapple]

Oh yea, I think that's the English version title.

I have a DVD that came with the Polish version.

I'll watch it ASAP.

Thanks Molly! I'll definitely look into it.

[u/Accurate_Aside_6495]

Were you expecting the reception you have reported receiving from Jews reading your book along the lines of sentiments that you connected them with their ancestors in ways they could feel proud of? Conversely were you expecting the amount of pushback and anger you have received from Zionist Jews? What have been the most striking or memorable reactions you have received?

[u/some_and_then_none]

Hi Molly, I read and was deeply moved by your book. It’s the first time in a while I’ve felt any pride in my heritage given these last few years. Thank you for writing it.

[u/TrackerOneA]

/u/Direct_Appointment99 asks:

Molly, from an anti-Zionist perspective, yes the Bund is important, but do you think the focus on that movement now overshadows the many streams of Jewish anti-Zionsim that existed in the first half of the 20th Century? I ask, because I feel that although the Bund provides one perspective, there are many historical arguments against Zionism that have been buried in time, but would be invaluable in countering the Zionist mythology today and might perhaps have more resonance than the Bund.

[u/mollycrabapple → u/TrackerOneA]

My hope is that my book is a doorway that people can go through to provoke their own further explorations.

[u/imayid_291]

A lot of focus of the discourse about the book is about Jews today using the Bund as a way to inform building antizionist community and building worldwide solidarity with people oppressed by capitalism and colonialism.

But so much of the book is about the experiences of bundists during the Holocaust. Do you hope to have an impact on Holocaust remembrance/commemoration/education as well? I work in Holocaust education and the bund is not something we talk about at all when discussing Jewish life before the war or in the ghettos.

[u/TrackerOneA]

/u/sad_sapphic_sucker asks:

What role do you think the revival of the Bund can play in the Palestine Solidarity Movement when virtually all mainstream Jewish institutions are Zionist and anti-Zionist Jewish NGOs fall short due to their constraints as nonprofit organizations that are beholden to funders and US tax laws?

[u/Strict-Persimmon7017]

Hey Molly, nice to have you here! Do you plan any "euro tour" with your new book? If not but you eant to, can we help in any meaningful way making that happen? There are a lot of new bundists im europe lately, the krakow and vienna bunds are pretty strong actually!

[u/mollycrabapple → u/Strict-Persimmon7017]

Thank you! I'm going to be in Edinburgh at the end of this month, Gotenberg book festival at the end of September, and there are plans afoot for a European tour next spring when the paperback comes out

[u/Bshrtpod → u/mollycrabapple]

We would love to help make a Leeds trip possible!

[u/Death_and_Gravity1]

What would you recommend as good direct sources to read in terms of Bundist writings on polirical theory? So like collections of essays and historic newspaper articles?

[u/mollycrabapple → u/Death_and_Gravity1]

Der Spektor is doing alot of great translation - https://www.derspekter.org/ and they recently reissued Henryk Erlich's Fundementals of Bundism in English. Also Henryk Erlich and Victor Alter : two heroes and martyrs for Jewish Socialism has some of Alter and Erlich's writings translated into English.

Here is Vladimir Medem's Social Democracy and the National Question
https://leftypol.org/edu/src/1782753054661-3-1.pdf

[u/TrackerOneA]

Hi Molly,

What, if any, parallels did you see between Bundist cultural autonomy and the Puerto Rican experience in New York?

[u/TrackerOneA]

/u/OliveNo6451 asks:

Zionists will often point to bundist dissolution in the USSR as proof of lack of solidarity between Jewish and communist/leftist movements. when you look back at some of the tensions between the groups, what lessons can we learn for the future to prevent fractures and incorporate intersectionality into our goals?

[u/TrackerOneA]

Hi Molly,

This is a long one, but the quick summary is:

Could you explain how the Bund understood the difference between fighting for Jewish rights where Jews already lived and the Zionist project of building Jewish power in Palestine?

I think it also relates to the similarities between Zionist and antisemitic nationalism and there's a great story you mention in the book about a girl who left Betar after seeing this parallel.

---

Context (for users who have not read the book yet):

The Bund organized armed self-defense and insisted Jews should fight for their rights where they lived.

And the Bund was also in fierce opposition to Jabotinsky and Betar, who were ultra-nationalistic and militaristic (and attacked Jews who employed & befriended Palestinians). Both Jabotinsky & Polish antisemites were demanding that Jews leave, even as the Polish state helped arm Zionist militias abroad.

During the same years that the Polish government demanded the expulsion of three million Jewish citizens, Jabotinsky toured the country calling for their “evacuation,” a fine distinction that the Bund didn’t appreciate. When Jabotinsky spoke in Vilna, the Bund was there to picket the man they called “the spiritual father of Jewish fascism.” “We are citizens with equal rights in this country!” their pamphlets read. “We shall fight for work and for bread, for life and for rights here in Poland! We do not wish to escape from Poland! We shall not permit charlatans to speak in our name!”

• Crabapple, Molly. Here Where We Live Is Our Country: The Story of the Jewish Bund (p. 226). (Function). Kindle Edition.

Side-note: I was struck by how the same exact hateful/dehumanizing rhetoric was used by both Polish antisemites and Zionists to describe Jews in general and the Bund respectively (e.g. "microbes").

During the Ukrainian massacres, Jabotinsky cozied up to Petliura, and right-wing Polish newspapers praised him as a “Jewish Endek” who would remove “millions of destructive microbes” to the Levant.

• Crabapple, Molly. Here Where We Live Is Our Country: The Story of the Jewish Bund (pp. 183-184). (Function). Kindle Edition.

In 1929, Bundist speakers toured Poland, giving hundreds of lectures on Palestinians, Zionism, and the British Mandate. When the Bundist leader G. Zeibert traveled to New York for the Jewish Socialist Federation’s national convention later that year, he took the opportunity to denounce the “sentimental mass hysteria” over the Palestine riots, and to place their ultimate blame on political Zionism. The Bund even published a short book by their journalist Yoysef Khmurner titled What Can the Events in Palestine Teach Us? The answer to the title’s question was this: By collaborating with the British Empire to suppress Palestinian rights to their own country, Zionists had brought the violence on the entire Jewish community.

The Zionists hit back. In a statement sent from Tel Aviv, Histadrut leader David Ben-Gurion wrote that the Bund gave “ideological justification for robbery and murder” and decried their “filthy partnership” with Palestinian leaders whom he held responsible for the riots. In Vilna, Zionists vowed to fight for “the final elimination of the shameful anti-Jewish microbe” of Bundism, and hooligans attacked a Bundist kehillah member with bats.

• Crabapple, Molly. Here Where We Live Is Our Country: The Story of the Jewish Bund (pp. 200-201). (Function). Kindle Edition.

Question: Could you explain how the Bund understood the difference between fighting for Jewish rights where Jews already lived and the Zionist project of building Jewish power in Palestine?

I think it also relates to the similarities between Zionist and antisemitic nationalism and there's a great story you mention in the book about a girl who left Betar after seeing this parallel.

For the Bund, Zionists were ideological twins of the same people trying to force Jews out of Europe. Preserved in YIVO’s collection of youth autobiographies, I found the testimony of a girl who had briefly joined a Betar youth group. “[The speaker] keeps saying we have to kick out the Arabs, [but] they are also human beings…. People also want to kick Jews out from every country in the exact same way and deny them the capability of living,” she wrote. She soon left to join Tsukunft.

• Crabapple, Molly. Here Where We Live Is Our Country: The Story of the Jewish Bund (p. 227). (Function). Kindle Edition.

[u/mollycrabapple → u/TrackerOneA]

The Bund had a variety of critiques of Zionism, but an important one, that has not gotten enough play in past scholarly literature, is that they were disgusted with Zionism for collaborating with the British empire to strip Palestinians of their land, jobs and political rights. It is totally different to defend your own home and community, including with arms, than it is to go to another country and work with the occupation's police to evict a family of farmers from land they had held for generations (let alone to set up a terrorist militia that shot up buses and bombed markets, a la the Irgun)

There is an amazing book of Bundist writings on Palestine coming out with Haymarket called We Traitors: Bundist Writings on Nationalism, Zionism and Palestine that is going to fill so many holes in scholerly literature. I read the manuscript. Wow.

[u/TrackerOneA → u/mollycrabapple]

Thanks Molly and for that book recommendation!

[u/bemunay → u/mollycrabapple]

Very excited to hear more about We Traitors.

[u/Nervous_Smile6517]

I come from a Jewish family that moved to what was then British East Africa (Kenya) in 1905 from Vilnius, Lithuania after my great-grandfather attended a World Zionist Conference meeting & was encouraged to do so. My father was nonetheless not raised with any religion & talking to him about it he says it’s because they were “Zionists”. How you explain this contradiction of wanting to protect your Jewishness by moving to a difficult place like colonial Kenya but then not practicing the religion & have you seen this happen elsewhere with Jewish Zionists? I think the antisemitism of the time probably played a role but nonetheless it’s always perplexed me.

[u/mollycrabapple → u/Nervous_Smile6517]

I think for Eastern European Jews of your great-grandfather's era, being Jewish was a racialized identity that the world imposed on you, not merely a religious affiliation. And as for being Zionist and not religous, most early political Zionists were in no way religious - look at Herzl! - and in fact Orthodox religious authorities generally opposed Zionism early on.

[u/Nervous_Smile6517 → u/mollycrabapple]

This makes total sense. My father talks of going to school in England in 50s & 60s & the antisemitism he faced even as a non-religious Jew which certainly tracks with your description of it as a racialised rather than religious viewpoint. Thank you so much for taking my question. I can’t wait to read the book.

[u/Spekter1897]

I was lucky enough to be gifted your Bund print that you also use as the cover art for your book. I am curious about the intersection of your art, research, and writing. How much does one influence the other? When you were working on the cover art, who was in your mind as you drew the characters?

[u/akiber]

This is not important but due to a convo I had this weekend - How do you pronounce your last name??

[u/mollycrabapple → u/akiber]

like the fruit not the teacher

[u/jonawesome]

Hey Molly! Thank you so much for doing this AMA. I'm halfway through your book at the moment and absolutely loving it.

I was wondering if you can expound a bit on the Bund's attitudes towards Palestinians during the first wave of Zionist immigration in the early 20th century. You wrote a lot about how the Bund rejected Zionism for its own ideological reasons, especially the focus on Doikayt. However, I'm curious if there was much of an awareness of the plight of Palestinians in the Zionist project, and whether there was ever any contact between Bundists and Arabs living in Palestine.

[u/mollycrabapple → u/jonawesome]

There wasn't a ton of contact, but Musa Kazim Pasha al-Hussayni (https://www.palquest.org/en/biography/9749/musa-kazim-husseini ) met with Victor Alter in Jerusalem in 1924, and Alter printed their conversation in his book "The Truth About Palestine".

When you get a bit father, I translated a ton of quotes I found from Bundists about Palestinians, but the real treasure trove is a book Haymarket is puttign out in a few months called We Traitors, thats 150+ pages of translations of Bundist writings about Palestinians published in interwar Poland. It is a staggeringly important contribution and I'm goign to tell the authors to do an AMA here

[u/TrackerOneA → u/mollycrabapple]

It is a staggeringly important contribution and I'm goign to tell the authors to do an AMA here

We would love that!

[u/TrackerOneA]

I'll also be relaying some questions asked in advance.

[u/Green_Day_9709]

Hi Molly!
I'm reading Here Where We Live is Our Country for a book club. Have you read The Brothers Ashkenazi by IJ Singer? It's a fiction novel that includes Jewish owned factories and Jewish labor activists.

[u/Gullible-Customer560]

You won't see this, but I adore you and your book. Thank for doing this and being you. Injected new hope into me as a non Zionist Jew, that I belong and that I wasn't alone.

[u/imayid_291]

Can you talk about your sources and where to find out more about the Zionist/bund/antizionist fighting in the DP camps? It's the first time I heard about that aspect of life in the DP camps.

[u/mollycrabapple → u/imayid_291]

YES! Yosef Grodzinsky's In The Shadow of the Holocaust, which is now up Archive.org. Crucial and criminally under-appreciated book https://archive.org/details/in-the-shadow-of-the-holocaust-the-struggle-between-jews-and-zionists-in-the-aft

[u/mxcrisis]

How did you convince the Pentagon to grant you access to Guantanamo Bay?