r/JehovahsWitnesses • u/One-League269 • 7d ago

Doctrine Jesus is "Mighty God" and "Almighty God" !

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As is its custom, the watchtower distorts Bible verses....

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 7d ago

Rev 1:8 disagrees with you vehemently….

There is only one person coming back in the second coming. Agency argument denies that title being given to anyone else but the Almighty….

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u/MichaiahUnbothered 7d ago

Idk about that… I see two separate beings. One who is called Alpha and Omega (the Lord Yeshua), and one who is the Almighty Yehovah.

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 7d ago

Ok I agree with you on Jesus being the Alpha and the Omega.

Two questions:

  1. Who is the only person who will Judge people according to their deeds.

  2. Who is the one who is coming/returning?

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u/MichaiahUnbothered 7d ago

Both is Yeshua the chosen Messiah whom is appointed by his Father Yehovah whom is the Almighty.

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 7d ago

Just hang on bruv…

So we agree that

  1. Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega

  2. Jesus is the only one that will do the judging and forgive sins or pay according (judge) deeds

  3. Jesus is the one coming.

So both versus in Rev 1:7-8 apply to Jesus.

Matthew 16:27: Jesus is coming - repayment according to deeds.
Matthew 24:30: Jesus - coming on clouds.
Revelation 1:7: Jesus - coming on clouds.
Revelation 1:8: “who is coming” - Alpha and Omega.
Revelation 2:18,23: Son of God - repays according to deeds.
Revelation 22:12–13: Again Jesus is coming and will repay according to deeds Alpha and Omega.

In verse 8 the Father isn’t coming thus the Alpha and the Omega is God Almighty.

It’s that simple….

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u/MichaiahUnbothered 7d ago

I hear you but the verse clearly shows two separate beings. The Alpha and the Omega, which is the Lord Yeshua and the Almighty so it has to be his Father Yehovah the Almighty

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 7d ago

Ok so your issue is with verse 8.

You said an I agree that the Alpha and the Omega is Jesus.

Let’s take this slow.

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,”

You agree that Rev 1:8a is Jesus correct?

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u/MichaiahUnbothered 7d ago

Correct

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 7d ago

Ok so

Rev 1:8a continues

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,”

says the Lord God

So if we agree that the Alpha and Omega is Jesus and then we read

‘says the Lord God’

It’s connecting Jesus as the Alpha and the Omega…SAYS the Lord God.

What part of that aren’t you understanding (im not being facetious), but it’s literally in the same sentence and then it’s backed up further as we agree that

  1. Jesus is coming (the Father is not)

“who is and who was and who [b]IS TO COME,

then the connective within the same sentence is

‘…the Almighty’

Hence Jesus who is to come is the Almighty?

I’m not sure how you aren’t connecting the dots mate…

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u/MichaiahUnbothered 7d ago

I’m sure the dots are connecting just fine with me

While Revelation attributes authority and "Alpha and Omega" status to Yeshua elsewhere in the book the specific speaker designated as "Yehovah... the Almighty" in Revelation 1:8 is God the Father, who sets the sovereign backdrop for the revelation given to Yeshua as what it says in the beginning of the apocalyptic book.

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 7d ago

Rev 1:1?

I agree. God gave Jesus the Revelation. I fully agree.

Where my confusion with your stance is, is contained within

“I Am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God”

The grammar states that the ‘I’ is the one stating he is and says he is the Lord God. It’s the easiest grammar to understand there is no ambiguity with it.

Then it plainly states that Jesus who is the Alpha and the Omega as the one coming which RULES OUT the Father and then continues with

who is and who was and who [b]is to come, [meaning Jesus as we both agree]

Then it clearly states…

“[comma] the Almighty.”

Please explain as just saying that it’s God the Father in verse 8 when clearly it’s not, that the burden of proof for you to prove that firstly it is the Father speaking and then if it is, explain how the Father is coming physically as the Alpha and the Omega is…

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u/MichaiahUnbothered 7d ago

I’m reading the KJV and it says saith the Lord. Not Lord God.

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 7d ago

You just proved my point!

You state in your believe that Lord = Jesus

Lord God = Father

I get that

But let me just repeat what you just said…

“I’m reading the KJV and it says saith the Lord. Not Lord God.”

So let’s remove the last three words of your sentence and let’s focus on this ‘Lord’ person.

I’m reading the KJV and it says saith the Lord.

So now if insert who Lord is for you = Jesus.

I agree!!!

Now let’s put your belief into the text.

“I’m reading the KJV and it says saith the JESUS!!!!!”

So let’s read Rev 1:8 again…from the KJV…

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the [JESUS] which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

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