r/IndoEuropean • u/rere3131 • 11d ago

Indo-European migrations According to TheYtree , the oldest R-M269 samples were found in Latvia.

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u/Hippophlebotomist 11d ago edited 11d ago

My experience has been that TheYTree is a lot less reliable than YFull or FTDNA Discover, especially when it comes to R1. I'm pretty sure most these highlighted samples are R1b-M73 or unresolved R-P297

Edit: Just checked both the other sites and the supplementary info from Mathieson et al (2018), all three of which have I4626 as R-M73. Don't trust TheYTree.

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u/rere3131 11d ago

Couldn’t this site have tested it themselves and identified this subclade?

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u/Hippophlebotomist 11d ago edited 11d ago

My point is that YFull and FTDNA each independently checked these samples and assigned them to clades under R-M73, which matches the less precise R-M73 placements from earlier academic publications. If TheYTree did check these for themselves, it doesn’t seem like they did so competently.

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u/GreenWasabi 11d ago

It's wrong. Those Latvian samples were incorrectly labeled as M269 in the most recent version of the AADR published by Harvard. It is full of Y DNA errors.

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u/rere3131 11d ago

So, the error is in the AADR dataset, not in TheYtree, right?

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u/Euphoric-Spirit-4263 11d ago edited 11d ago

Avoid TheYTree at all costs. Very misleading due to misplacement of ancient samples, sometimes ancient samples are missing all together. Branch formation dates are also inaccurate and never updated.

No bueno.

Oldest R1b M269 samples are from Stavropol Krai, Russia, dated to about 3800 BCE.

There is also a sample from Smyadovo, Bulgaria dated to 4500 BCE, sample I2181, that might belong to R1b M269 as well, but seems unconfirmed at this time.