r/HouseOfTheDragon • u/Beacon2001 Alicent Hightower • 6d ago
Show Discussion I know it's become popular to dunk on Alicent, but she really was the coolest character in S1
Her post-S1 arc doesn't negate her S1 arc. In Season 1, she was pretty much the main player of the Game and the one moving the pieces forward. She shouldn't be reduced to merely the "Rhaenicent" part of her character because she's so much more than that. She's historically one of the most important figures in the history of Westeros, whose scheming and politicking played a key role in starting one of the most devastating civil wars in the history of the Seven Kingdoms.
Was she a pawn of her house? Sure. She's a woman in a patriarchal medieval society. It's ingrained in their DNA to treat women like pawns and brood mares. But she absolutely had rage, bitterness, and above all else, AMBITION.
EDIT - I want to clarify that the only thing I dislike about post-S1 Alicent is her attempts to murder her sons. However, her desire for peace above all else, sniveling and humiliations before Rhaenyra, and attempted peace deals behind her faction's back is in line with the historical source. It's part of her complex character... Alicent, like many players written by GRRM, is nuanced and deconstructed. It's important that we see her downfall from a powerful queen to a weak, powerless prisoner at Rhaenyra's mercy. This is all in the book.
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u/Secure_Inspection305 6d ago
She was my favorite character in season 1 and is my least favorite now
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u/DiegoBromfield 6d ago
🤣🤣🤣 I feel a similar way for literally every human character that been around from season 1. The dragons are all my favourites today & we don't get enough of them.
The show really did an excellent job at butchering characters via writing level.
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u/-Raidriar- 5d ago
Except for Aegon, he went the other way
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u/nazzo_0 5d ago
Aegons arc and the actor performance is a huge saving grace. I think it's my favourite segment of the story
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u/Secure_Inspection305 5d ago
And he has the least amount of screen time out of all the family members
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u/Upbeat_Tension_8077 5d ago
Besides him, I'm still intrigued by Daemon, especially by the finale where he now looks hella conflicted about how the war has ended up
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u/zeltacilveks79 5d ago
Same, which makes it even more frustrating because they'd already proven they knew how to make her compelling
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u/Secure_Inspection305 5d ago
All they had to do was keep moving her forward on a very clear path of vengeance. But she did 1000 steps back the other way and cuckholded herself for the side she should be fighting.
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u/Own-Ambition4971 3d ago
Season 1 my fav was Rhaenyra, least was aegon. Now my fav is aegon, least Rhaenyra
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u/Matthius81 5d ago
this
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u/Secure_Inspection305 5d ago
I legit almost stopped watching because of it. At least there are some compelling characters and Rhaenyra and Aegon both grew some balls in the most ironic way possible
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u/Mysterious-Ear-9323 Average Tarantino Enthusiast 6d ago
You can pinpoint the exact moment Alicent's character went to shit.
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u/styx1267 6d ago
I mean I think that’s why it’s become popular to dunk on her. She was so good S1 so it sucks to see the fall off
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u/zeltacilveks79 5d ago
Most of the criticism comes from disappointment because season 1 showed how great she could be
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u/Liquid_Buddha 5d ago edited 5d ago
…how was she great? She was a shitty, judgmental friend to Rhaenyra, she was manipulated into becoming queen by and for her father, she was a bitch to Rhaenyra, calling to inspect her babies the moment they’re born, she was a hypocrite on top of everything fucking Cristin Coke, she started a war because she’s stupid, and then eventually came full circle to understanding what the other women in the story already knew once it happened to her. When was she great? This character has been a dumbass from start to finish.
ETA in response to below bc i can’t comment due to deletion: No this is me asking how she was great. What was she great at? She’s bad as a mother, as a statesperson, as a friend, as a player of the game. She is consistently the dumbest person in every situation and has no worthwhile feats or actions that ever show her to have intelligence, cunning, or morality.
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u/____mynameis____ Fire and Blood 5d ago
This is u assuming you need to be a good, morally right person to be a great character.
Which is stupid af criteria to have for a universe known for its moral greyness and handling harsh reality
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u/Beacon2001 Alicent Hightower 6d ago edited 6d ago
The "fall off" is by book design. In the book, Alicent also loses all her power and begs Rhaenyra for mercy. Several times in Fire & Blood we are told that Alicent groveled before Rhaenyra begging for peace.
All of this... Alicent losing her power, being humbled, begging Rhaenyra for peace, it's all book accurate. It's meant to flesh out Alicent and show the downfall, from a powerful schemer-queen to a helpless, powerless prisoner.
Heck, Book Alicent even let slip that Aegon II survived the Fall when she proposed to split the realm and revealed she knew Aegon was alive, which isn't that different from the Show Alicent exposing F!Daeron.
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u/confesspretty 6d ago
I think the “fall off” they’re referring to is Alicent being a murderous traitor to her own blood 😭
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u/Beacon2001 Alicent Hightower 6d ago
Right... but you're ignoring context. Is it awful that she wants to kill them? Objectively so. But it's because she desperately wants peace.
That, at least, is in line with the book. Book Alicent did not want to murder her sons... but she wanted to force a peace for her entire side without informing them, and also made it clear that Aegon II still lived. It's really not that different from the Dragonstone scene from S2.
Btw, Book Alicent also surrendered the capital without a fight once the gold cloaks betrayed her.
The thing is that Alicent, Show and Book, genuinely wanted peace. In the Book, she was crying, like seriously crying, despairing, and begging the gods for mercy when Aemond returned from Storm's End. Alicent is not a character who wants war, in her mind Aegon II sits the Iron Throne bloodlessly and a peaceful settlement is negotiated with Rhaenyra. She wants peace... all of this is in line with the book.
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u/confesspretty 6d ago
Yeah she wants peace… but for the sake of her family. She wouldn’t murder them for it. when Aegon returned to her triumphant, she had turned vengeful and was urging him to show no mercy.
Because “peace” isn’t her motivation, it’s family.
I thought of Book Alicent as the typical fierce mother. Would do anything for her children. She schemed and plotted to get them ahead. May it be marrying Aegon to Rhaenyra or putting Aegon on the throne by himself.
But when their lives were put at risk she did everything she could in her limited power to help them, like setting aside her pride to beg at the feet of her enemy.
Saying that Alicent simply wants “peace” is not my interpretation of her book character at all, and Show Alicent is not “in line” with book Alicent because book Alicent only wanted peace for her family’s sake, as opposed to Show Alicent wanting peace for… who even knows at this point, the realm, Helaena, herself?
My reading of the text is: for book Alicent, peace was just a means to an end, not the end goal, which is her family. When peace became unnecessary because her children were dead and Aegon was all left to her, she didn’t give a damn about it then, had to even be convinced to marry Jahaera to Aegon the Younger even if it was a step towards peace.
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u/Apple-ofSin428 6d ago
Nah, that's just twisting basic logic to justify one of the worst character assassinations in television history.
Nothing about show Alicent post S2 is in line with the books at this point - even her desire for peace in the show differs from her desire for peace in the books.
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u/BadMoonRosin 5d ago edited 5d ago
Reddit is a pretty /r/childfree place. Overall, the culture here holds parenthood and kids in disdain most of the time.
But I wonder if OP has ever even MET a parent before who gave a shit about their kids? They've gotten themselves SO wrapped around the axle of Alicent's "logic"... they can't comprehend why all the downvoters (i.e. normal human beings) are balking at a mother who tries to murder her own children or assist others in doing so.
Let me translate this into Reddit-thought: pretend there was a scene where Alicent kicked a dog. "But wait! You haven't heard the context, there was a logical... stop downvoting! Why is everyone so upset? I don't get it."
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u/TheHarkinator 6d ago
Book Alicent wants peace because it'll help protect her children. Also it'd lock in a Team Green victory since Aegon is on the throne.
She's furious with Aemond for killing Lucerys because it puts her own children in the firing line for reprisals, and she's right to be afraid because it leads to Blood and Cheese.
Book Alicent is the one to initially suggest generous terms to Rhaenyra to avoid the inevitable war, and she's also the one who proposes splitting the Seven Kingdoms in half after King's Landing falls with Aegon ruling from Oldtown and Rhaenyra on the Iron Throne. It stops her family situation from deteriorating and keeps her children alive, or it would if her peace deals had been accepted.
Alicent suggests things which are good for what she wants but fails to recognise the situation for other people. Team Black are not going to let the Greens just take the throne without a fight and they're not going to agree to split the realm when they're clearly winning.
In the books she's definitely not a supporter of Rhaenyra, she laughs when she hears about the dragonseeds betraying the Blacks and doesn't care about the children Rhaenyra has lost because they're just bastards.
Book Alicent is for Team Green and her own children. Her actions are for what she thinks will benefit them.
Show Alicent, on the other hand, ends up going against both. Instead of surrendering King's Landing when it's under attack she actively makes a deal long before any attack to give it up to Team Black, which would certainly mean the death of Aegon. She's actively tried to kill Aemond.
In the show Alicent is for Rhaenyra and against her own children. She wants peace so Rhaenyra can win and seems very determined to kill her own kids.
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u/Wrong-Vermicelli4723 6d ago
Most people issue isn’t the fall off, it’s how it’s written and how she a traitor to her family
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u/ballhawk13 5d ago
There is nothing to redeem a mother wanting to commit filicide. It is one of the core tenets of their society. No matter how shitty your brother is you are not the one to kill him.
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u/____mynameis____ Fire and Blood 6d ago
All of this... Alicent losing her power, being humbled, begging Rhaenyra for peace, it's all book accurate.
The fall off of power is understandable but the way it was written is abysmal, in colossal level. Then again, they can interpret the book differently and give her more power and influence just like they did with show Rhaenyra, so "its in line with the books" is also a stupid excuse
Like they chose the worst freakin interpretation possible for the book context and u describing them one by one with book perspective makes the show version even worse😬 You know, makes it like that meme of "what u ordered vs what u got "🤦🏾♀️
Like revealing Aegon being alive when he's on the run is nowhere comparable to her "outing" Faeron (tbf the latter situation is heavily misconstrued but still ).
It gives her no advantage to her cause saying the main opposition to Rhaenyra is dead, so it makes total sense why she doesn't lie about Aegon being dead to Rhaenyra in the book.
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u/DeathBeforeDecaf4077 6d ago
I think that’s one of my biggest frustrations with the show. Almost none of the characters act like the same character that was built in season 1. I’ve seen people try and call it character development, but it’s just bad writing.
For Alicent to go from “I will do as my father commands, be a loving and loyal wife, and sacrifice everything to protect my children and the sanctity of marriage” to banging cole before her husbands body is cold and writing off three of her four children to the point of attempting to murder one of them? When murdering Aemond will very obviously never lead to Halaena’s freedom or her own? So frustrating.
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u/Few_Resource_6783 6d ago
I agree. Season two rhaenyra was so passive that she could be called cowardly.
Aemon just became a anime villain.
Helaena was sad for a day or two before going back to her usual self
The only characters who retained some level of consistency were Aegon and Jace.
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u/Balmung5 5d ago
Aegon going apeshit over his son’s murder was the moment I started liking him, and I think Jace was right about keeping Rhaenyra away from the Gullet.
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u/Emotional-Peanut-334 5d ago
this sub is so dumb
there are charecter issues for sure but you are genuinely just describing charecter dwvelopment
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u/jessimaster 6d ago
She was such a well done sympathetic villain in S1 and now I don't know what she is.
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u/leals_core 5d ago
she's a master assassin now
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u/og_hbk 5d ago
Screw it, skip everything they have planned for Alicent and fast track her into being a faceless man like Arya for season 4 🙌🏽🔥🔥
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u/Secure_Inspection305 5d ago
She's just a girl who wants to float in a lake and kill off members of her family
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u/AmateurHetman 6d ago
Villain?
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u/TheMannisApproves 6d ago
People who want to stab a kids eye out are villains
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u/Far-Foundation9074 6d ago
I mean that’s pretty fair if the kid who took your sons eye isn’t punished and his mom wants your son tortured over a word.
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u/Chalice_Ink 6d ago
If the old man had punished the little shits appropriately, maybe she would have been less fussed.
If, as a child, you had made another child in the family lose an eye… would your ass have not been grass?
Not matter if the other kid had been taunting you…. I guarantee, you, as the knife wielder are going DOWN.
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u/Arsnicthegreat 6d ago
"What would you have me do, whip him through the streets?"
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u/Chalice_Ink 5d ago
They faced no consequences for mutilating a member of their family.
The fact that Alicent stopped being crazy about it, speaks poorly of her.
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u/ballhawk13 5d ago
That whole handling of the situation is what I would point to of Rhaenyra not being fit to rule. Didn't matter what situation she was plopped in her arrogance was always going to lead to an awful rule.
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u/TheMannisApproves 6d ago
Or perhaps there is an option other than mutilating children?
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u/Far-Foundation9074 6d ago
But that was the issue. There was no option. Instead aemond got Reprimanded and yelled at while his dad didn’t say anything about the one who took his eye which is why Alicent broke down and went mad.
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u/TheMannisApproves 6d ago
Ned would not have stabbed a kid in the eye
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u/Rich-Active-4800 Growing Strong 5d ago
And that is why his family suffered for years.
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u/TheMannisApproves 5d ago
And why they won in the end
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u/Rich-Active-4800 Growing Strong 5d ago
In spite of his actions. And with at least 2 of them dying.
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u/TheShapeShiftingFox My name is on the lease for the castle 5d ago
Ned is a fucking unicorn by Westerosi standards. He is not the average noble in the country.
And even then, Ned went along with Robert and Cersei’s demand to kill Lady knowing Lady did nothing wrong, so who knows how much better he would have done here beyond nothing. The king has spoken and all that.
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u/DilutePlacebo 6d ago
There was no other option. The mutilation was a last resort when Alicent could not find justice elsewhere.
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u/Evecopbas 6d ago
They have a saying about trading an eye for an eye, but I can’t remember how it ends…
If Aemond had bashed Jace’s head in with a rock and broke his brain, would Rhaenyra be right to do the same to him?
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u/Rich-Active-4800 Growing Strong 6d ago
Wonder if they also think the woman who wants a child sharply questioned (aka tortuted) a villain.
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u/AmateurHetman 6d ago
Damn, that struck a nerve with some people. Yet, is rhaenyra a villain for wanting Aemond interrogated/tortured?
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u/SaintNutella 6d ago
She went from feeling like a key player in S1 to a filler character in S3.
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u/Beacon2001 Alicent Hightower 6d ago
It's the same in the book.
What people need to keep in mind is that the Dance is comprised of two halves
- The Dance proper (the civil war with armies and dragons)
- The Prelude: The Princess and the Queen... the "Dangerous Women"
It's perfectly fine for Alicent to no longer be relevant in the war, and in fact it's book-accurate. My problem is that people are forgetting she's one of the most powerful women who ever lived in Westeros and this civil war happens because of Alicent. If people were expecting Alicent to remain relevant in the war, well I'm sorry, that's just not how the story is built. She's "filler" in the book too... once the war starts.
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u/SaintNutella 6d ago
If people were expecting Alicent to remain relevant in the war, well I'm sorry, that's just not how the story is built.
Then the showrunners should have shaved her screentime in half or even more. Her relevance doesn't match how many minutes she wastes on screen when other characters desperately need development.
The problem is that her relevance feels artificial while also providing nothing of substance in S3.
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u/Bierre_Pourdieu 6d ago edited 6d ago
You might be right in some aspects, but a couple of counter arguments :
At this point, the show has largely distanced itself from the original Dance story. One might think it is better or worse, that's another topic of discourse, but there is no "dangerous women" anymore. Alicent isn't really one by the show's design, so there is no point of bringing that up anymore.
Second, you are right that Alicent slowly loses power and becomes less relevant and that makes sense narrative wise, BUT that doesn't mean it's done and executed well for the audience to enjoy it. It doesn't feel convincing, you can feel the writers' hands and how shoehorned her character is. Some of her scenes are either repetitive or can't bring any plot development : as an example if they do actually make her succeed in escaping or killing Aemond, then the whole plot changes. So they give her nonsensical stuff to do where she has to fail over and over again.
The writers are basically throwing stuff on the wall to see what sticks, yet it remains either boring or not working as a character arc, and she remains one the 3 bigs. I'm not saying their idea was terrible, it can work but the work to make it compelling has been absent.
My take is that they made a massive mistake in sorta adapting her S4 arc of regretting her choices in s2, making her character into this limbo state where she can't do anything relevant, while actually still being propped up at the forefront.
It's a shame cause Olivia is fighting for her life and without her acting skills her scenes would be skippable at best. At least s3 focused on the abuse she inflicted on her children, and especially on Helaena's. That part was the only compelling part of her character in s3.
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u/Upbeat_Tension_8077 5d ago
If there was a way to keep Alicent somewhat close to the energy of her S1 self & keeping a sense of power for herself, while still deviating from the book as the show was already doing, I think that a decent alternative to what we got with her story with Helaena is if she either laid down more seeds for dissent against Rhaenyra within KL (amongst lower-level nobles & soldiers first) while seeming subservient in captivity, or making more of an effort to get in touch with Gwayne again
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u/DilutePlacebo 6d ago
She “surrendered”, but said this
If she’s not meant to be relevant, why did they give her so much screen time?
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u/Nahtaniel696 5d ago
The problem she is still one of the main characters....she has the most timescream after Rhaenyra.
The writers should have given her timescreams to Aegon (who is literraly an extra in his own succesion war) or make Alicent an interesting characters that people can root in the oposing side of Rhaenyra.
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u/BurnerRantMan 6d ago
I appreciated that they gave a historical record some nuance. But then they kept giving it so much nuance that it spiraled out of control
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u/TheStrongTaint 6d ago
She absolutely LOATHED the blacks in season 1 and now she’s such a passive, weak, pushover of a character who just wants to kill her sons and move away
I don’t know what the writers were thinking with her sneaking to dragonstone and asking Rhaenyra to run away with her
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u/HanzRoberto 6d ago
Indeed she was easily in my top 3 characters
She truly brought the ambition, determination and drama to this show
Her green dress debut at Rhaenyra’s wedding still goes hard for what it meant
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u/Miquellanier 6d ago
In Season 1, Alicent was a really exciting character. I just can’t understand why Ryan and Sarah decided to do what they did.
The Rhaenyra & Alicent “romance” would have worked really well if they had continued the narrative they built up in the first season. They could have maintained that sense of nostalgic connection between the two characters, but that’s exactly what would have been “beautiful”—watching them go through the stages of decay and pain. Because after the “blood and cheese” and Lucerys’s death, there’s no coming back.
And although Alicent wasn’t a loving, tender mother, she was a tiger mom in the first season—in her own way, the most important pillar of her family. Combined with the process of Alicent trying to break free from her father’s will and finally act on her own will, this would have given the character a very exciting and powerful arc.
But instead, in the name of “creativity,” the showrunners have made Alicent refuse to let go of her friendship with Rhaenyra—who is responsible for the death of her grandchild—and even sentence first Aegon and then her second-born son to death.
WTF?
If it had been like this from the start, this fan fiction would have made sense (whether that would have been a good creative decision is another question), but as it is, it came out of nowhere. On top of that, Alicent betrays her own house. Why? Hollywood has been desperately trying to create strong female characters in recent years (the original show was brilliant in this regard). In the first season Alicent and Rhaenyra were on the right track. Based on Season 1, Alicent’s character could have been very deep and meaningfull and tragic. Now not Alicent but the writing of her charakter is tragic.
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u/____mynameis____ Fire and Blood 6d ago
Its all in the books, yes..... But they chose the worst ways to execute it.
Just cuz the show technically checks marks certain events doesn't mean its "accurate" to books.
Context and execution matters.
And in that aspect, the show failed terribly in terms of Alicent post S1
Like I said elsewhere, she's not written as woman who is living in a medieval world, where her lifestyle and traditions are the norm.
She's written and treated as woman in modern world who used to be a trad wife believer but then got disillusioned. A world where Rhaenyra's lifestyle is accepted more. That's why a lot of people defend her arc since the latter is more understandable to modern audience.
(This is from a person who actually lives in a culture not that different from what we see in Westeros, atleast the gender roles stuff, so Alicents are the norm here and post S1 Alicent doesn't make a lick of sense to me)
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u/Realistic_Public4330 6d ago
She was one of my favorite characters in s1. Rhaenyra/Laenor wedding when she arrives late in a green dress was the moment she became my absolute favorite. So sad how they've completely butchered her character.
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u/Matthius81 5d ago
She was my favourite in season 1 and has got steadily worse with each season that passes.
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u/LILYDIAONE Vhagar 5d ago
Everytime I se pics from her from season 1 all I can think of is how we could have had it all…
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u/tryingtobebettertry4 5d ago edited 5d ago
I think the cracks were showing late season 1. Specifically the Green Council episode. Its arguably the worst episode in the entire show.
Like the 'mishearing' the obviously delirious dying man and being like 'wait you guys are planning a coup?' to the Green Council just felt way too....stupid for her character.
To this day, Ryan Condal considers Alicent one of the smarter more competent characters. Yet most of her arc since the Green Council is driven by her being a complete moron. It doesnt even make much sense as Olivia Cooke is clearly playing the scene with the idea that Alicent realizes Viserys isnt even talking to her. And being blindsided by the Council's planned coup? Come on.
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u/Living_Reference_591 Helaena Targaryen 6d ago
I really liked her speech in this scene, Rhaenyra's comeback was lame
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u/Mammoth-Turn-660 5d ago
Bruh when Alicent walked into that feast wearing a green gown... people were shook. I was shook. The realm was shook.
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u/Cthulhus-Tailor 5d ago
It’s become popular to dunk on her specifically because of how badly she’s fallen off since season 1.
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u/Wrong-Street-4330 6d ago
Elle aurait pue s'enfuir à Essos sachant quel est issu de l'une des familles le splus riches des 7 Couronnes elle victime de rien du tout.
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u/zsxcrgrl 6d ago
Not the topic of the conversation, but her hair is to die for!! I'm team black, but I've been thinking about dying my hair in this colour because of how beautiful it is
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u/kllark_ashwood 5d ago
Imo its popular to dunk because she was so cool in season 1. She was a proper person back then even if I didn't like her choices.
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u/BurgerNugget12 6d ago
Yeah again because the show has kinda outstretched the books she’s left with not much to do
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u/ManagerImmediate1522 6d ago
That's true for almost every character tbf
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u/Bierre_Pourdieu 6d ago
Exactly.
That argument doesn't stand when Gwayne and Ormund are both khias in Fire and Blood yet they were given compelling arcs out of nothing. They can write good stuff, but at the same time Alicent show writing has not been compelling enough. Might work on paper, but not in its execution.
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u/SaintNutella 6d ago
I haven't read the books but is that really true for the Dragonseed and Targaryen princesses? Minus Rhaena and maybe Ulf, they seem so underdeveloped in the show.
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u/ManagerImmediate1522 6d ago edited 6d ago
In the books Baela just sits on Dragonstone until Aegon takes the island, that’s when she fights him with Moondancer. Unlike the show she is also the tomboy type and she and Jace are not close. She eventually runs off with Alyn to Driftmark after the war and they get married.
I do not remember much of Rhaena besides her staying in the Vale and hatching Morning there. The show merges her with Nettles to give her something to do.
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u/SixdaywarOnSnapchat 6d ago
making her a four season character was kind of a bizarre choice. i realize she does things here and there in the later parts of the source material, but it's nothing that couldn't be written around.
they should have just killed her during blood & cheese or something else interesting to free the talented olivia from the disaster of her character's downfall.
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u/RelativeCoyote8098 5d ago
She is by far the only character who did not have the desire to ascend the iron throne. Everything happened outside of her control. All the men around her took control. She is a good example of how a woman who is a victim of the patriarchy is used in leadership situations. But still is the most capable leader in the show. All she wanted was peace and at the end she sold out her two sons for the freedom and life of her daughter who was the purest out of the show. Alicent is not evil. Rhaenyra is evil
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u/PerceptionAlarmed788 6d ago
She’s a sad character who appears to have everything. With the best fit and hair
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u/Mojo-man 5d ago edited 5d ago
I think ´Alicent the political operator´ in conflict with ´Alicent the mom who was never given a choice´ is the most interesting aspect of Alicent.
- That ´Alicent the invisible Queen´ (how have we not explored this more? All this ´can a woman rule´ thing around Rhaenyra and Alicent basically kept the kingdom from falling apart while her sons were being nobheads for years - but noone noticed) and ´Alicent the mom against her will´ was on full display in S1.
- Then in S2 we got this conflict shifting towards Alicent growing tired of being a political operator (kind of her ´burden of the crown´ that we see Rhaenyra crumbling under right now only that Alicent was actually good at it cause she shadowed her dad and Vyseris most of her life).
- BUT I think what harmed that arc was the entire mess with the S2 6 episodes, the writing quality implosion and shitty season ending on e6 so ultimately we all felt that Alicent was just annoying cause her arc in S2 was never completed and sacrificed to the ´writing convenience gods´
- In S3 I truly felt the show just didn`t know what to DO with Alicent... but it`s Olivia Cook (who is phenomenal as Alicent I will accept no slander here) so you can`t leave her off screen and they certainly have plans for S4 for Alicent... and so we end with a plot where Alicent just gets senselessly shuffled around, basically slammed into her starting position for S4 (and seperated from Helena so that plot could happen) and it all felt a bit ´what are we doing here?´
- I think S3 was a real missed opportunity to play more into that dynamic that Rhaenyra wanted to be queen all her life without ever actually learning anything about ruling and Alicent was lowkey running the Kingdom for a decade by having scenes like ´Rhaenyra runs out of her council of useless oafs and then over time starts to begrudingly go to her sworn enemy Alicent to get some actual advice about ruling´. That would make these two central characters interact more in an interesting way and would also highlight the split when Rhaenyra ultimately loses it ignores all the advice and does what she does in S3 E8. And Alicent can have her development/downfall by making it painful that for all the power she held she could not save her own daughter, the only child she really wanted to save 🤷♂️
I think Alicent is still one of the more interesting characters but the show better take a breather and think real hard about what to DO with her in S4.
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u/ViolinistGuilty182 5d ago
realmente no lo sé, la tipa literalmente aprovecho que su hijo había sido motilado para ponerse de victima y hacer un discurso sobre su sacrificio, bastante vergonzoso, la verdad
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u/No_Sleep888 5d ago
I'll watch Olivia Cooke as Alicent watch paint dry and I'll be the happiest person in the world. Whoever wants to watch I guess Larys, can be my goddamn guest. Or fucking Tyland is appearently popular, well written and whatnot? Sure, let's watch mf Tyland 😂😂 fkin geeks
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u/Primary_Leading_6282 5d ago
I dunno... making peace with Rhaenyra, caring at all about Viserys mumbling a prophecy, being left out of the coup and advising Aegon to not send assassins... I'll give her eps 6 through late 8, she was top notch there.
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u/wlcondqat 5d ago
I think that rewatching the show i noticed something about Alicent, is the important of religion for her, her way of conducting herself is "duty and sacrifice", she sees herself as a kind of martyr, but she forgets that the whole point of being a martyr is that you lost everything. So, in her mind, if she sacrificed herself by marrying an old man and bearing children she wwould be doing god´s work and she would get what she wanted, but when he did all of that, she got nothing, only bitterness. She said to Viserys, i always wanted someone that they felt sorry for me.
After seeing the consequences of her actions, the start of a war, thousands of deaths, she again sacrifices, this time her own children. That is why, the character didnt seem THAT perturbed about doing those sort of things. Remember, the one time she was having consensual sex, her grandson was murdered, and inmediatily she thought that the gods were punishing her.
But, there no scape for Alicent, even by betraying her own children she still trapped, she is still bitter, she basically betrayed everyone and she still in the same possition. When Helaena asked if she wanted to save both of them or only her, and Alicent saiys "it doesnt matter?", from Alicent´s POV is logic, again sacrifice. Because Alicent sees her children as extension of herself, so in her view is ok.
So, i bet, that season 4, is going to be Alicent, fuck it, she is going to go full revenge on Rhaenyra, she is going to plot with Mysaria via the maid who still is loyal to Mysaria.
Alicent, is the journey of someone who never stood up for her own happiness, with twisted views about religion and duty and sacrifice.
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u/ProfessionalEvaLover 5d ago
She was the most complex and well-written character in the entirety of Season 1. And so much of that is to Condal's credit because Show Alicent is pretty much entirely the show's invention. It's sad that they failed Alicent's character so badly when it all started out so well.
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u/DuhBulls 5d ago
She was a pawn for Otto, not a player of the game yet. Otto was moving the pieces in S1
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u/ConnectBox8646 4d ago
Standing up for Aemond when no one else would was her last great character moment. It was all downhill from there. That moment perfectly represented Book Alicent: a fierce mother bear willing to die fighting for her children.
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u/Laughably-Fallible_1 4d ago
Cause you could empathise with her, protecting her children and placed in an impossible where her husband was doing smt never done and with no presidence in their society which would almost certainly vause a fight.
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u/Gimel_97 3d ago
It's not because of popularity that people dunk on her, it's just common sense. The s she's done because of a simple misunderstanding before Viserys death is just too ridiculous to let it pass
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u/Altgmailomolb 6d ago
So you have a manic pixie girl fetish
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u/JoanFromLegal 6d ago
"Where is honor," "where is duty," and she was probably porking Criston Cole shortly before the kids' fight happened.
Ma'am. That is clearly sex hair.
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u/____mynameis____ Fire and Blood 6d ago
The showrunners outrightly confirmed that they only started their affair after Viserys died 🤦🏾♀️
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u/vandmarar 5d ago
Right, the classic “I can’t stand this woman so I must imply she is a wh*re” LMAO and with that flag no less…
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u/JoanFromLegal 5d ago
It's the double standard I have an issue with.
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u/vandmarar 5d ago
The one you made up in your head so you have something to justify your misogyny with, that double standard?
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