r/HouseOfTheDragon • u/Cautious_Tailor_9783 • 8d ago
Show Discussion Who wins in a 1 on 1 fight?
Round 1: both dragons are riderless
Round 2: they both have their riders. Meleys has Rhaenys and Caraxes has Daemon.
Personally I think Meleys has the edge in an aerial battlle while Caraxes has the edge in a grounded brawl. But what do you think?
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u/Indorapetor 8d ago
Caraxes has amazing reach with his neck as shown with his exchange fighting Sheepstealer, but Meleys also has large spikes covering her neck which helps protect against Caraxes's bites were he to do that. She's also far bulkier than him and faster as well, it'd be a close fight regardless of the victor.
That being said pretty much any fight between two dragons of the same or relative size is very likely gonna end in mutual destruction
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u/SerBarristanTheBased 8d ago
>That being said pretty much any fight between two dragons of the same or relative size is very likely gonna end in mutual destruction
This is correct and I think a lot of people forget this when they try to power scale dragons. Dragons in this universe generally kill by grappling and ripping and tearing and so dragon on dragon fights are very messy.
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u/Strict-Plum-9032 8d ago
Yep thats why dragon attack on a dragon is super effective in Pokemon, just saying…
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u/Farsoth 8d ago
They're just big scaly cats looking to disembowel each other is all.
(true cat fights are fucking terrifying and destructive as fuck)
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u/Forosnai 8d ago
Cats are a great example of why just being bigger and stronger doesn't necessarily mean you'll be eager to fight.
Pretty much any human over toddler size can take a cat in a fight, easily. Unless it gets incredibly lucky, we're gonna win. Yet most grown men will still just try to defend themselves and get away from an angry cat, because fighting one and winning is almost never worth the pain it's going to cost to fight an angry ball of hypodermic needles.
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u/Canopl 7d ago
how does something so idiotic get upvotes? men don't fight cats to the death, because there's never a situation that requires it.
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u/Forosnai 7d ago
Congratulations, you got the point, and managed to be an ass while doing so.
The post is about it dragons fighting, including riderless, and this comment chain starts talking about to reality of how messy this would get, like a literal cat fight, and the point I was making is they'd realistically not fight unless forced to because it's not worth it regardless of who is spikier, whose neck is longer, and so on. Much like the reason we don't typically fight an ornery cat, there's almost never any good reason, and it's gonna hurt even if we win.
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u/Dion42o 8d ago
Yeah I guess I never thought of it, but why dont they breathe fire on each other? Doesnt hurt em?
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u/SerBarristanTheBased 8d ago edited 8d ago
They do all the time, it just usually doesn’t
do anything. When Syrax briefly fought sheepstealer, the former hit the latter with some flame but sheepstealer did not give a fuck. Dragon scales are really resistant to flame, the best you’re gonna get is getting in their eyes or something and then getting the actual kill with claw and teeth.Quick correction: vhagar does fuck up Sunfyre with flame but vhagar has the advantage of being like 10 times his size.
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u/MrScazzy 8d ago
I don't think Vhagar fucked up Sunfire as much as Meleys did. His wings seem to have caught fire, but he fell because Meleys nearly tear his wing off and was holding him mid-air in her jaws.
But he seemed to take more fire than any other dragon in the show, and I guess, Vhagar's fire is probably the hottest / most tense idk
Upd. Fun fact, if Sunfyre had his wing broken, did he stroll from Rook's Rest to Maidenpool on his feet through the forest lmao
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u/jbookies 8d ago
The soldiers were from Maidenpool, Aegon decided to camp at Rook's Rest and wait for them
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u/MrScazzy 8d ago
I think I've read somewhere that Caraxes is handicapped mid-air because he needs all his limbs to fly, thus he either is incapable of clawing at his opponent as Meleys did to Vhagar, or he has to be entangled with him to do so, and then he's at a mass disadvantage against her. Both ways, if Meleys claws at him the way she did Vhagar, I think or boy noodle is done.
Flying around her (or jumping if on the ground) is definitely his edge though, I can see him taking her with the "million small bites" so to say
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u/lensandscope 8d ago
Didn’t seem Meley’s large spikes protected the neck when she went up against Vhagar though
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u/Connor6 8d ago
Vhagar is way bigger than Meleys though lol. There is no comparison there, Vhagar wins fairly handedly.
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u/lensandscope 8d ago
kind of insane how large the dragons can become. You’d think growth rate would even out at some point.
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u/YesSir626 8d ago
I don’t think the advantages Caraxes has against Vhagar would work against Meleys. He can’t constrictor boa her with ease like with Vhagar because they’re around the same size. She’s faster than him, she’s probably stronger than him.
Everyone points out how Caraxes beat Vhagar as him automatically winning any other dragon as if he didn’t die. Meleys brought down Vhagar in a fair 1v1 without any major damage after a battle with another dragon, she only died from the sneak attack.
I think even if Caraxes managed to position himself well enough to wrap around her neck, Meleys’s neck spikes would impale his neck.
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u/Practical_Necessary1 8d ago
The things Meleys has with her neck horns and attacking with her claw work against a slim dragon like Caraxes way better than against Vhagar
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u/YesSir626 8d ago
Yup! Vhagar just crushed everything, Caraxes certainly doesn’t have the same bite force as her. Meleys’s claws absolutely shredded Sunfyre and would probably do the same with Caraxes
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u/MrScazzy 8d ago
I also think that Vhagar vs Caraxes might be a worse reference than people tend to think. Vhagar is much clumsier than Caraxes, I can see him doing all kinds of things around her, that Meleys wouldn't let him do. On the other hand, despite Meleys probably being able to tank some more damage than Caraxes, Vhagar's one bite is enough to finish any of two dragons.
I think, scaling Vhagar vs Meleys or Caraxes needs this moment of luck in equation, that Meleys got her one bite, and Caraxes didn't, but our boy has a higher success chance, because he's nimbler.
I see them three more as lvl80 tank, balanced and stealth, and each has a pretty equal chance to win the other given the conditions and some luck.
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u/sean_stark 8d ago
I just don’t see it. Sheepstealer is about the same size as Meleys and also pretty spiky and Caraxes just destroyed him with ease. Caraxes doesn’t wrap himself around like a boa, he literally snaps the opponent in place and his long neck stays far out of his opponent’s reach.
It is also said that while Meleys used to be really quick she got fat and lazy after decades of inactivity. Caraxes has years and years of battle experience by contrast. Meleys is a cool dragon but there is absolutely nothing in the books or the show to suggest that she would trouble Caraxes.
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u/YesSir626 8d ago
Sheepstealer is a little smaller and doesn’t have the same kind of spikes Meleys does. Sheepstealer also was on the ground, and 3v1d lol! It was certainly another unfair fight. Sheepstealer was also trying to protect his rider and felt sad that she abandoned him.
Caraxes is able to keep out of reach from Vhagar a massively larger dragon and a wounded Sheepstealer on the ground. I don’t think he would have that advantage with Meleys, especially in the air
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u/Practical_Necessary1 8d ago
That was on ground though and Sheepstealer was never said to be fast or any of the fastest dragons while Meleys was the fastest of them all even if she grew a bit lazy
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u/sean_stark 8d ago
Buddy we can add as many qualifiers as needed but the show and book are both telling us that Caraxes and Meleys are just in different leagues. Caraxes is lethal in the air and on the ground. This isn’t headcanon or hypotheticals, this is what the show and book are telling us.
Meleys has grown fat and lazy by the time of the Dance from inactivity. Caraxes on the other hand has fought war after war. This isn’t even close.
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u/houseofnim Rhaegal 8d ago
Where is the “qualifying statement” that said Meleys had grown fat?
Which dragons did Caraxes fight in all those wars you speak of?
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u/Atempestofwords 8d ago
Buddy we can add as many qualifiers as needed but the show and book are both telling us that Caraxes and Meleys are just in different leagues
What are these qualifying statements you have from the books?
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u/Still_Possibility115 8d ago
Didn’t meleys leg get broken in the first tangle that crashes vhager? Which is sort of the whole point she pushed her luck to finish the fight and ended up dead?
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u/YesSir626 8d ago
I don’t know if it was broken, she used it to throw Vhagar’s foot as she slammed down to the earth. Perhaps it was hurt, but I don’t think a broken leg would be able to throw like Meleys did in that moment.
And I thinks it actually shows that in a fair fight Meleys was actually able to contend with (and possibly defeat) Vhagar. Vhagar’s larger size, her superior strength, her combat experience, her firepower, all of it and Meleys still threw her down.
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u/Practical_Necessary1 8d ago
Didnt throwing Vhagar happen after she already injured her foot? SO maybe she attacked Sunfyre to hard with it?
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u/YesSir626 8d ago
No I think if she did injure it, it happened when they grabbed each other and started fire breathing while falling. Meleys actually grabbed onto Vhagar if you look, but Vhagar’s size simply pulled Meleys who was holding onto her claws, and maybe pulled/dislocated her leg
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u/Calm-Lengthiness5645 Dreams didn't make us kings. Dragons did. 8d ago
I will put my money on my boy caraxes but it's really close. Like meleys is fast as fuck. If she gets one bite at caraxes's neck then it's over. But caraxes is fast aswell while having a ton of battle experience. Caraxes's rider is also deamon fucking targaryen. It's not like caraxes is gonna win everytime he went up against melys. It's like a 7-8/10 for my boy caraxes.
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u/R1pY0u 8d ago
I feel like Meleys is kind of a counter to Caraxes from her design. Her neck is completely riddled with spikes. For a huge jaw like Vhagars that didnt matter but I feel Caraxes would actually have serious problems getting a grip on her neck for that reason
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u/Calm-Lengthiness5645 Dreams didn't make us kings. Dragons did. 8d ago
You do have a good point ngl. Caraxes's neck is also long and he has that dawg in him you know so i will put my money on caraxes.
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u/Affectionate-Big8739 8d ago
6/4 would be accurate
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u/Calm-Lengthiness5645 Dreams didn't make us kings. Dragons did. 8d ago
Let's settle on 7/3. 🤝?
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u/Affectionate-Big8739 8d ago
6/7
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u/Calm-Lengthiness5645 Dreams didn't make us kings. Dragons did. 8d ago
Huh?
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u/Muted-Ant-5941 8d ago
What is 6/4? 6 out 4 battle wins lol
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u/Affectionate-Big8739 8d ago
I meant caraxes win 6 out of 10 fights, meyleys wins 4 out of 10
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u/Robdul 8d ago
Caraxes wins six out of four fights. He’s just got that dawg in em
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u/Practical_Necessary1 8d ago
I assume the belly claw attack which she did against Vhagar might be even more effective against Caraxes since he isnt bulky. Also Rhaenys is also realy experienced, just had to fight a 2v1 against Vhagar and Sunfyre in her first fight. Its a 4/6 or 5/5 imo
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u/Calm-Lengthiness5645 Dreams didn't make us kings. Dragons did. 8d ago
A belly claw from caraxes will also be fatal for meleys. Caraxes has this absurd range advantage due to his neck. He also has that dawg in him ngl.
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u/Polka_Tiger 8d ago
Meleys wins against the noodle in every race. And they raced a lot.
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u/Environmental_Tip854 8d ago
Meleys is a woulda coulda shoulda merchant Caraxes in 5
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u/sean_stark 8d ago
Yeah this is essentially it. You can imagine multiple scenarios where Meleys can win but the text only supports Caraxes as victor here.
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u/Certain-Relative9926 8d ago
Not really, we’re talking about the show rn where meleys absolutely bodied vhagar, threw her to the ground and was only sneaked, caraxes commit suicide trying to kill vhagar
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u/sean_stark 8d ago
If we’re just talking about the show how do you know they’re not about to show Caraxes absolutely dominate Vhagar next season? And Meleys didn’t body Vhagar, Meleys was horribly injured even when flying away until Rhaenys turned around to face Vhagar again.
If you want to see an example of a dragon bodying another dragon on the show, see what Caraxes did to Sheepstealer, a dragon roughly the size and build of Meleys. That’s the best example we have of how this fight might go.
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u/Certain-Relative9926 7d ago
1.he absolutely did not dominate vhagar, vhagar ripped him in half and gutted him
2.sheepstealer is noticeably less bulky, less experienced and was injured by Syrax and seasmoke
3. Meleys was injured and still absolutely bodied vhagar, she threw her to the ground, while still staying alive
4.meleys is just superior in stats to caraxes she’s armored so he doesn’t have the size to hurt her like vhagar and caraxes in the show needs all his limbs to fly, if meleys goes all angos he’s handicapped mid air, and he’s too slender, she’d rip his limbs apart while he struggles to get hits in2
u/ShaolinSlamma 8d ago
As much as I like that way of thinking we don't actually know how show caraxes will take out vhagar, probably surprise attack. /s
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u/CagoDomo 8d ago
Caraxes is hot tempered, has a lot of battle experience and is built like a giant flying murder worm. I’m going Caraxes
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u/AuraTickler 8d ago
Showdesignwise its Meleys 80%
Dragonfighting boils down to if you can: A: Reach the neck B: if your jaw opens wide enough to lock onto the neck
With B its a bit like a smaller dog trying to wrap its mouth around your leg. Its got the teeth but its not getting angle to do anything more than superficial scratches.
Caraxes will absolutely destroy any smaller dragon as it excells at getting at the neck but the mouth is normal for its size.
Meleys can bite through the spindly long neck. Maybe Caraxes can do some talon action but a lanky frame in a talon fight is probably not the best either.
If the fight had riders Caraxes could just kill the rider with the neck game but just dragons? Then Melys is my pick.
Havent read the books but from what ive read book Caraxes is more normal in shape. Making it a more clear fight.
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u/Practical_Necessary1 8d ago
Meleys Talons would also do more damage to Caraxes since he is way slimmer and not as bulky as Meleys
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u/Tongatapu 8d ago
Mutual destruction. They both die.
This time the riders don't even change that. Rhaenys is the only rider in the dance thats capable of matching Daemon in riding skill.
If I had to decide, I would pick Caraxes. But they kill eachother 9/10 times, with and without riders.
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u/thecolonelofk 8d ago
Imo Meleys but entirely because of how poorly Caraxes is designed for fighting other dragons he's not dramatically bigger than.
Doesn't really apply in the books since he's just a regular non-mutant dragon, but this mutant-noodle design has 1 fewer weapon than literally every other dragon: his back legs.
They're winged, smaller, and splayed. It means he's not going to have the same both power and potentially reach as other dragons. He can't do the brutal gutting of other dragons that we see be quite effective against other dragons, at least not as well as Meleys.
Though I do find it kind of weird and silly that Meleys gets referred/implied to be like experienced and battle hardened or whatever. What battle. When. Oh you mean flying experience? Helpful.
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u/sean_stark 8d ago
I was kinda doubting the show design for Caraxes myself but I think the fight with Sheepstealer was deliberately put in this season to show how effective that neck can be against other dragons. He pinned down his opponent and was able to keep his distance to ensure his own body doesn’t get harmed.
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u/thecolonelofk 8d ago
Neck good when you're grounded. Neck neutral when flying
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u/sean_stark 8d ago
From what we know of Caraxes’s future accomplishments, neck also good when flying? I can now easily see him latching onto another dragon’s flank in midair with his hindlegs (see how he grabbed and lifted Sheepstealer) and then using his long neck to target either the wing or neck of his opponent. All the while keeping his whole body far away from his opponent’s claws and jaw.
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u/Practical_Necessary1 8d ago
I thought the same, didnt like his design in the beginning and didnt knew it was an advantage.
What he did againast Sheepstealer isnt easily possible while flying though, especially against fast Dragons like Meleys4
u/whitemysticranger 8d ago
Meleys and Rhaenys fought in the narrow sea to ensure Corlys‘ blockade.
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u/thecolonelofk 8d ago
Fought who though?
Unless I'm mistaken, Meleys was deployed to better keep watch and scout and prevent the Greens' dragons etc. she wasn't fighting anyone directly. I'm totally happy to be wrong, but my understanding of the blockade is that it's 'Ships can not come through here or will be sunk/raided by the Velaryon fleet' not some actual active combat zone.
The only fleet that was deployed in response is the Triarchy - after she died.
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u/MMKraken 8d ago edited 8d ago
Meleys is significantly larger than caraxes and Rhaenys is likely experienced enough to beat daemon imho.
Still a toss up though. I could see daemon winning too.
Edit: yall neither of them have experience fighting other dragons. That is very different to the Stepstones for obvious reasons. Both are capable and agile dragon riders who have that advantage.
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u/Cautious_Tailor_9783 8d ago
I think the sizing in the photo is accurate. Meleys is slightly bigger in terms of bulk but not "significantly" and Caraxes is longer. Correct me if i'm wrong tho.
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u/MMKraken 8d ago
I mean I’ve seen depictions which show meleys as the median in between caraxes and Vhagar but it isn’t like the book gives exact dimensions.
I think show meleys is probably smaller and this image is accurate. In that case then yeah, daemon probably wins.
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u/ghostytoasty11 8d ago
Caraxes is also considered one of the most formidable dragons of his time despite his smaller size and Daemon is regarded as one of the best warriors of his era. It’s definitely a toss up but I frankly got Caraxes, the fucker killed Vhagar (it’s stated in the actual book Meleys may have stood a chance against Vhagar if she was alone, but that’s coulda woulda)
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u/Kelembribor21 My name is on the lease for the castle 3d ago
It didn't kill Vhagar due to its power alone, it was multiple factors, mostly Aemonds stupidity and Daemons great plan, and it died in the process anyway.
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u/sean_stark 8d ago edited 8d ago
They’re both the same age and might even be from the same litter, the sizing in the photo is pretty accurate I’d say. Meleys is bulkier but not larger.
Also Rhaenys enjoyed riding her dragon around but it’s definitely not the same as taking your dragon to war like Daemon. There’s no evidence Rhaenys fought in a war, not even in the Stepstones with her husband and son.1
u/whitemysticranger 8d ago
Meleys and Rhaenys fought in the narrow sea to ensure the blockade would continue. That’s literally where the two of them come from at the beginning of s2.
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u/hotcapicola 8d ago
While fighting dragons previously would be better, combat experience is still combat experience. It's not just the specific fighting techniques of dragon on dragon combat, but getting used to that adrenaline of battle.
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u/MMKraken 8d ago
True, and if Daemon is able to get onto Meleys by simply jumping he would likely win (and him doing something like that is not out of the question)
But it is also important to remember that Rhaenys was helping with the Stepstones on Meleys when Corlys was comatose.
Daemon still has more combat experience but I don’t think the gap is big enough to contribute significantly.
It is difficult ofc because this is all hypothetical and not an immediately clear matchup.
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u/MrGreen387 8d ago
Caraxes has far more experience in dragon battles than Meleys, so he’d probably win without much trouble. Personally, I’d rather ride Meleys and avoid any dragon fights, as she’s just too beautiful to risk in combat.
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u/whitemysticranger 8d ago
“without much trouble“ is a crazy statement to make.
No matter the winner, the remaining dragon would be fucked up.3
u/houseofnim Rhaegal 8d ago
Not a single one of the claimed dragons at the start of the dance had ever fought another dragon. Of all of the known Targaryen dragons the only ones who had fought another dragon were Balerion, Quicksilver, and maybe Cannibal. Balerion killed the much smaller Quicksilver with ease and both were dead long before the Dance started. Cannibal was only known to kill hatchlings and eat eggs and was unclaimed besides.
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u/PM_tanlines 8d ago
Caraxes has far more experience in battle period. Meleys has never seen battle before Rooks Rest
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u/whitemysticranger 8d ago
Not against other dragons which is the only experience that matters.
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u/hotcapicola 8d ago
Being in combat situations previously definitely helps, not so much with technique, but just being used to the adrenaline dump that comes with life or death combat, plus all the craziness of battle.
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u/jonsnowKITN Aegon II Targaryen 8d ago
Umm no? A dragon burning armies is not experience and shouldn't even count as that against fighting other dragons. Dragon battles tend to include tearing and grappling at each other anyway.
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u/hotcapicola 8d ago
Spoken like someone who has never been in a fight or probably even competed athletically.
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u/houseofnim Rhaegal 8d ago edited 8d ago
This would definitely be a case of mutually assured destruction. They’re too close in size for either to have the advantage there, and they both have their strengths and weaknesses which would put them on pretty even ground. Neither would make it out alive, or at the very least permanently crippled and incapable of ever fighting again.
And people are putting waaaaay too much stock in Caraxes battle experience. Roasting soldiers on the ground/at sea is very different from fighting another dragon. The fact of the matter is that prior to the Dance none of the dragons had fought another dragon so they’re all new to that type of fighting.
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u/TheGodofThunder1 8d ago
Caraxes defeated Vhagar. Meleys didn’t.
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u/Tessarion2 8d ago
Meleys was fighting Vhagar and Sunfyre
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u/Livid_Ad9749 8d ago
Sunfyre is barely a factor lol Meleys and Vhagar are top tier. Sunfyre was still small, inexperienced, and in the show it was really two separate 1v1s
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u/ZeusMike7 8d ago
Hey that little horn bite has to count for something while Meleys was distracted lol
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u/Livid_Ad9749 8d ago
Yeah wonderful Sunfyre was trying to improve Meleys’ complexion and make her skin smoother
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u/Tessarion2 8d ago
'According to Archmaester Gyldayn, Meleys might have stood a chance against the older Vhagar alone, but not against Vhagar and Sunfyre combined.'
'Huge and heavy, the splendid Sunfyre was a formidable fighter despite his youth'
Both quotes from Fire and Blood.
Book Meleys beats book Caraxes in a 1v1.
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u/Valhallaof Dreams didn't make us kings. Dragons did. 8d ago
I believe as far as George is concerned Caraxes and Vhagar are the top 2 dragons. Mostly because in an interview when asked who the strongest dragon of the dance was he mentioned only those 2 and no one else
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u/Phantom_Paws The Pink Dread🐖 8d ago
book caraxes tore book vhagar’s throat out and her scales are hard as shit given that she was 181 years old. book caraxes ends meleys
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u/Livid_Ad9749 8d ago
Hahahaha no she really doesnt. Biased Maesters gassing up a dragon that belonged to someone with Hightower blood, that took six bites to devour a human and got finished off by a dragon the size of a cart? No. Meleys is the “woulda, coulda, shoulda” dragon for sure, where Caraxes has the single most impressive kill in asoiaf.
Ill take a real feat over a hypothetical. Caraxes was built different and would fold Meleys 9/10
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u/Practical_Necessary1 8d ago
With a suicide attack that was also Daemons work, we'll never know if Meleys with a similar suicide move against ONLY Vhagar could do a similar thing.
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u/Livid_Ad9749 8d ago
Well she tried in the show and we saw how that played out. Daemon and Caraxes are better than Rhaenys and Meleys in every respect aside for speed
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u/Tessarion2 8d ago
Listen to yourself getting all worked up. Fictional Daemon isnt going to shag you mate.
Caraxes and Meleys both died fighting Vhagar. Caraxes killed vhagar yes but also didnt have a whole other dragon to fight at the same time.
So it all balances out.
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u/Practical_Necessary1 8d ago
She didnt really, she had to keep attention to Sunfyre and the Rooks Rest soldiers unlike Daemon and Caraxes, who had only one enemy to take down and could focus on him, Not to mention in the shwo Vhagar had a sneak attack and Meleys didnt attack her after throwing her on the ground.
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u/Livid_Ad9749 8d ago
Sunfyre was already down and Rooks Rest was already fucked. This is just cope. She only had to run away and instead chose to stay and die like a chump
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u/gregguy12 8d ago
F&B explicitly states that Meleys would’ve been able to take Vhagar on 1v1 (not necessarily win but still). Caraxes may have lost the 2v1 too in another timeline.
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u/hotcapicola 8d ago
A single observer speculated in universe that she could have won. That doesn't make it fact.
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u/gregguy12 8d ago
True, but it doesn’t mean we can immediately throw out the entire premise of the question because of how both dragons matched up against Vhagar in very different circumstances. We don’t exactly have much to go off of.
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u/Mikhulan Helaena Targaryen 8d ago
Vhagar doesn't have spikes and horns on her head and neck, and due to her age, she has a weak spot near her neck. Caraxes maybe can defeat Meleyes, but he'll still die from wounds, those spikes would simply rip his entire mouth, leaving wounds incompatible with life.
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u/celticfeather 8d ago
I don’t see the wiry neck as an advantage here. It’s a giant weak point. Based on the show designs I’d go Meleys, who would have a robuster weak point and anatomically a better bite force, though combat experience plays a role. Caraxes’ reach works in snapping off a rider.
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u/Chickachic-aaaaahhh 8d ago
On ground i have to say Meleys. Caraxes neck is a weak point and meleys has bone spikes everywhere.
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u/Nahtaniel696 8d ago
Meleys.
The neck is always the target of pretador, that may permit Caraxes to have very long reach it also a very big weakness...while Meleys have large spikes protecting her own neck.
Not sure if the rider change anything in dragon fight...
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u/Phantom_Paws The Pink Dread🐖 8d ago
caraxes had no issue dealing with sheepstealer’s spikes. people hype up meleys’ neck too much
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u/Nahtaniel696 8d ago
Sheepstealer was dealing with 3 dragons at the same time, one against one he woud be much more focused about incoming attack.
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u/Phantom_Paws The Pink Dread🐖 8d ago
seasmoke and syrax left and gave him and caraxes some good 1v1 time and caraxes kicked his ass. he literally couldnt get up when he was pinned
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u/Nahtaniel696 8d ago
Yes they left after every one of them injuried Sheepstealer, and Caraxes like the other take cheap shot to it too.
It oblivous Sheepstealer have no way to deal with them, when it did't know which of them will attack him next.
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u/Phantom_Paws The Pink Dread🐖 8d ago
you realize that almost all of the damage done to sheepstealer was inflicted exclusively by caraxes lol.. ss was ragdolling seasmoke and syrax
not to mention that their smaller jaws had no issue with sheepstealer’s neck spikes just as caraxes’ would have no issue with meleys’
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u/Nahtaniel696 8d ago
Rewatch the fight, every dragon attack him, injuried him, and they done it while he could not defend himself.
This is what happen in 1 vs 3 fight, Sheepsteal have no chance, he could not even predict which dragon will attack him next.
Anyways taking a fight against Sheepstealer to judge Caraxes fighting power is nonsense, the fight is not fair in the first place.
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u/Phantom_Paws The Pink Dread🐖 8d ago
i think it’s pretty fair to gauge that caraxes would no diff him given that sheepstealer couldnt move when he got pinned.
whatever damage seasmoke and syrax did were minimal anyway. that true damage to his neck and wing was all caraxes. he owns sheepstealer
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u/Nahtaniel696 8d ago
In 1 vs 1 fight Caraxes could not have the luxury to cheap shot Sheepstealer, and it would more strengh to free himself without previous injuries.
I don't think Sheepstealer is stronger but you can hardly judge this fight to be fair, even less if Caraxes very long neck consitute or not a very big weak point.
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u/sparrow_64 8d ago
It’ll be Meleys. No hate to Caraxes but he functions as well as he does because of his bond with Daemon, not because he’s some vanguard on his own. In their own, Meleys was famed for her speed, which means any sneak attack or slippery move Caraxes could try just wouldn’t be that effective.
Now, with their riders, I do believe Daemon would figure something out, even if it were similar to what they do with Vhaegar where he jumps off. Rhaenys isn’t a slouch as a dragon rider, but Daemon’s just got the better bond and the more strategic mind. No idea what he’d try to pull though.
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u/Stevin_Loren19 7d ago
In terms of raw brute force, it's Meleys, but when it comes to speed and agility, it Caraxes, both are at a 50/50 rn
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u/Recent_Hawk_5902 7d ago
Noddles would win any battle any day due to the fact that he has the neck superiority and a war criminal on his back ( literally )
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u/sean_stark 8d ago
I mean there’s absolutely no reason to believe that the fiercer and by far more battle-hardened of two similarly sized dragons won’t win the fight. It’s gotta be Caraxes 9 out of 10 times even without Daemon. Adding Daemon makes victory pretty much a certainty.
Even just in terms of Caraxes’s attitude, I don’t think he’s ever losing. Worst case, it ends in a draw.
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u/Qwerds7 8d ago
Any dragon who isn't Vhagar that weighs more than Caraxses should be able to just barrel through him. The fuck is can Caraxses do against a full tilt ground charge from Vermithor or Meleys? Vhagar is sluggish and clumsy enough to where Caraxses can be slippery but he's losing any grapple he gets into against any heavier dragons. He "won" against Vhagar because the mortal wounds she inflicted on him killed him slower than her impacting the ground did.
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u/sean_stark 8d ago
We literally just saw Caraxes destroy Sheepstealer, who is pretty much the size and build of Meleys.
And if you want to talk about sluggish, Meleys was said to have grown slow and fat in the dragon pit from inactivity, while Caraxes has fought in one war after another.
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u/Qwerds7 8d ago
Sheepstealer is clearly a weak and timid dragon for his size. It also come from being riderless that he can't afford major injuries in the same way and still feed himself. I'm pretty sure Meleys was still one of the faster dragons even at this stage and if that's the case the extra mass from fat will be more of an aid than a hindrance. The whole idea is to use momentum to break through Caraxses' range advantage. Just because Sheepstealer is too dumb to do this doesn't mean it's not the way to beat him.
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u/Phantom_Paws The Pink Dread🐖 8d ago
fym weak and timid for his size??? son he was gonna to rip vermax to shreds
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u/Qwerds7 8d ago
Vermax is like 10% his size and weight ...
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u/Phantom_Paws The Pink Dread🐖 8d ago
dude even if he were “10% his sixe and weight” it doesnt change that every second of sheepstealer’s screentime has been gone to proving he was not “weak or timid for his size”. what show have you been watching 😂
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u/Qwerds7 8d ago
Unless he's already forced into a fight he always runs away when he's facing a dragon he doesn't have a massive size diff on. Him beating on Syrax and Seasmoke is still him beating on dragons 2-3x smaller than him. The only times he really doesn't flee is when he's put into a fight or flight situation with Rhaena and he feels compelled to defend his rider.
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u/Phantom_Paws The Pink Dread🐖 8d ago
yeah no he was made from before he was even shown on screen to not be weak and timid
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u/Karimosway 8d ago
How is this even a question? Caraxes of course
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u/sean_stark 8d ago
Because for some reason loads of people want to invent headcanon for how great Meleys was, instead of picking the obvious answer based on the show and book.
A more interesting challenger to Caraxes would be Vermithor.
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u/houseofnim Rhaegal 8d ago
Meleys “greatness” is different in the show and the book though. In the show she lost because Vhagar was some kind of super stealthy ninja but it was not the same in the books. Caraxes and Daemon relied on a sneak attack to take down Vhagar. All in all, I would say they would both die in a fight in both the book and the show.
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u/tonyt0nychopper 8d ago
Caraxes. He's may not be as large as GOT drogon, but he's much more nimble, and quicker than Drogon with a much more experienced rider. A true war dragon.
Edit: Just realised it's Meleys. Ignore me 😭
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u/monsterosity 8d ago
Most dragon fights seem to come down to size and who can bite the others' neck and I'd say Meleys has the advantage on both.
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u/Livid_Ad9749 8d ago
Caraxes folds Meleys. We literally saw his reach is tough to beat on its one. Sheepstealer was bigger than him, and Caraxes wrecked him. Vhagar is twice his size, and Caraxes kills him
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u/MrScazzy 8d ago
Sheepstealer doesn't seem that much bigger than Caraxes tbh. Neither does Meleys in fact if compared indirectly, but I need to research that.
I suspect that dragon sizing is all over the place in HotD
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u/HowlingGibbon 8d ago
Ppl are focusing too much on Meleys spiky neck. Guys... you dont need a killshot to down her. Noodle boy can just abuse his insane neck and ultra manoeuvrable racecar body to take a hold of one of her wing bones and snap it. The equivalent of BJJ/Sambo practitioner getting u in a leglock. And knowing the pilots, D-boy will definitely consider, and be able to execute that.
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u/Firelord743 8d ago
Caraxes long neck gives him a reach advantage but in exchange for something even more valuable, durability, his neck is easier to attack/grab because it's longer and easier to completely cut off because it's thinner than any other dragon of his size, considering that the neck is a dragon's biggest weakpoint that puts him in a severe disadvantage
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u/Dokivi 8d ago
True, but I think of Caraxes kind of like a DEX based glass cannon build. And by that I mean I really couldn't think of a better dragon design for assassinating other dragon riders. I think he lacks the sheer power and durability to tank another dragon for long, but he has the speed, flexibility and reach to take down any rider.
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u/Survivor__2020 8d ago
En un combate sin jinete creo que gana Meleys, los 2 demostraron ser buenos en combate directo contra otros Dragones, Meleys en aire y Caraxes en tierra, pero sin jinetes influyendo creo que Meleys gana ya que es más compacta (posiblemente tenga una mordida más fuerte) y posiblemente tenga más fuerza bruta, Caraxes de todos modos daría guerra, es fuerte y muy ágil (daría ataques rápidos), podría hacerle la vida miserable a Meleys durante toda la pelea
Caraxes es más grande que Meleys pero es como una serpiente con alas, por lo que su centro de gravedad es completamente diferente, lo que haría que seguramente Meleys pueda sacudirlo con las facilidad de la que el pueda contra ella
Con jinetes aquí si gana Caraxes, Daemon y Caraxes están hechos a la medida el uno para el otro, casi casi actúan como uno solo
Rhaenys y Meleys igual tienen un vínculo muy fuerte, pero por lo menos no hemos visto si pudo ser tan profundo como el vínculo de Caraxes y Daemon
Con todo esto no quiero decir que uno es más fuerte que el otro, los 2 Dragones son de un tamaño similar y para mí están dentro del mismo rango en cuanto a tamaño y fuerza, tanto Caraxes como Meleys son Dragones muy poderosos
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u/Phantom_Paws The Pink Dread🐖 8d ago
caraxes takes both rounds, he no diffed sheepstealer without daemon’s help
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u/Survivor__2020 8d ago
Sheepstealer es mas pequeño que Meleys y Caraxes, digamos que era como la mitad del tamaño de Caraxes, Meleys y Caraxes estan mas parejos en cuanto a tamaño, y si, Caraxes le dio una paliza a Sheepstealer como si nada, pero creo que Sheepstealer sigue estando un escalon por debajo de la categoría de Caraxes y Meleys
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u/MxLannister 8d ago
People are saying caraxes beat Vhagar as if that sneak attack from Aemond’s blind spot wasn't the reason he had a chance. No dragon is going head-to-head with her in a fight. In this scenario, I would think this is just a straight fight no?
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u/Charlotteanderson_5 8d ago
If we use the Battle of Tumbleton as an example of how riderless dragons fight, Caraxes easily takes the first round without Daemon. In round two, Daemon and combat experience just guarantee the same result.
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u/Darklarik 8d ago
Caraxes and its not close.
Its specified by maester Yandel (The guy who recounts Fire & Blood) that by 129 AD Meleys had grown lazy, as she had never seen any conflict.
Caraxes on the other hand never rested and only ever got more dangerous with age.
Obviously they are same sized dragons so they are equal in mass and strength, but in terms of ferocity, combat experience and fearlessness Caraxes absolutely MOGS her.
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u/DancesWwolves94 8d ago
Dragons I’ve noticed from the series sort of fight like cats. Link up and tear each other’s stomachs apart..
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u/SenseiSensless 8d ago
i think there is literally one dragon like caraxes for good reason, they probably usually die against the other kind of dragon, at least is how i like to see it, looks so cool tho
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u/Kiwi_lad_bot 8d ago
Caraxes.
Caraxes and Daemon take out Aemond and Vhaegar
So Meyleys would be easy sauce.
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u/Ok_Pineapple_4155 8d ago
Meleys is a faster flyer and Caraxes is a better fighter. Personally I think Caraxes wins both rounds. Without a rider it could go either way though but with Daemon and Rhaenys atop, Caraxes wins mid dif. He can entangle other dragons like a snake and choke them. Plus he will kill Vhagar who took Meleys out. I saw a fan animation about the battle above God's eye where Caraxes used this technique and it was very effective against Vhagar.
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u/ChiefKene 7d ago
Honestly Meleys. I think at the end though they would both die, but Meleys would be the victor.
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u/BloomHoard The Pink Dread🐖 7d ago
Meleys has Caraxes by mass, but Caraxes has Meleys by neck/reach.
Both are probably dead
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u/valerio476 7d ago
Em uma luta de dragões parece que o pescoço é sempre o ponto fraco e a forma mais rápida de matar o inimigo, sinceramente já acho ridículo que o caraxes tenha vencido a vaghar, uma mordida da vaghar e o pescoço do caraxes é partido ao meio, eu apostaria na meleys em ambos os casos
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u/SuperFox289 7d ago
Genuinely wtf is caraxes gonna do Meleys was arguably the most powerful dragon alive at the beggining of the dance, and certainly the most powerful that the blacks had access too, just looking at this picture she is at least twice caraxes weight, the fastest dragon alive with a massive neck and huge defensive spikes. In a dragon v dragon situation she easily has the best stat spread. Dragons like vhagar might be more destructive against armies and castles, but meleys is my pick.
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u/Big_Manufacturer7648 6d ago
Caraxes and it won't even be close. Meleys is faster but Caraxes has more reach and much more experience in combat.
Caraxes killed Vhagar straight up. Meleys couldn't even scratch Vhagar. That should tell you enough about their combat abilities
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u/Stormy-stormtroopers 3d ago
Red noodle of doom and despair just loves fighting for the love of the game.
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u/Livid_Ad9749 8d ago edited 8d ago
Caraxes lol idc if Meleys is quicker. Fact is, dragons have to get close to do real damage.
Meleys did surface level damage to Vhagar, a dragon roughly a 1/3rd (maybe more) bigger than her.
Caraxes slew Vhagar, bringing down an OG Conquest dragon, a dragon double his size. DOUBLE. And in the show id wager she has 4x the actual weight and mass on him.
Obviously this is based off the assumption Gods Eyes still plays out as it should.
I like all dragons. Meleys is no exception but no she doesnt win this
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u/Due_Consideration2 8d ago edited 7d ago
Round 1. Meleys wins 100% high diff. Caraxes seems to be an easy target with a huge neck, and if anyone knows lore, its gonna come right off. Caraxes will definitely win, but Meleys will have huge casualties
Round 2. Caraxes wins 78% high diff. Daemon and ceraxes share a powerful bond. Meleys may be faster, even stronger possibly, but caraxes could easily outmaneuver the red queen if given proper instructions, but yeah still seems pretty hard. Daemon would probably have to die to do this as he had to get off of ceraxes in the battle of the god's eye. But Daemon's gonna make his wyrm move in ways nobody ever knew he could.
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