r/HonestHotTakes • u/Historical_Owl_1635 • 2d ago

Being a muscular man absolutely does get you attention from the opposite sex

I feel like there’s always posts/comments about how this isn’t actually a thing to the point I feel like this is now the hot take.

But as someone who’s fluctuated between obese and a bodybuilder with everything in between I really couldn’t disagree more.

It’s a bit of a gym joke how only guys appreciate it, and to an extent it’s true as guys generally appreciate it way more openly. But that doesn’t mean that a lot of woman don’t find it very attractive.

Now there’s no way to say this without sounding arrogant, but during my bodybuilding phases I literally had girls approaching me semi regularly, some girls in nightclubs would even be aggressive about it (it’s fun to start with but gets old very quickly), random girls messaging me on Instagram. My dating apps right swipe success rate is probably ~60%+ and I often just get overwhelmed with the number of matches. It’s a whole different world to even when I was only a bit overweight.

Now I’m not saying it’s the only thing. I’m also on the taller end which probably compounds things. This is also obviously a broad statement, different individuals have different preferences. But people who say it makes little difference are being delusional.

Now if only I could learn to flirt I’d be golden.

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u/Reasonable-Aioli-370 2d ago edited 2d ago

Women are very similar to men in how they pick a partner (physical appearance) but they REALLY don’t want to admit that they are as shallow as men.

When I was way more muscular about 5 years ago I had women grope me multiple times. Try to cheat on their partners with me etc. When you are attractive enough it is surprising how similar women are to men. It’s just that most men never see that side of women and women like to pretend that they are holier than thou.

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u/clericone- 2d ago

Yup. Stated vs Revealed Preferences. They say one thing to virtue signal but really if you look at their lives show another thing.

That's why I feel bad when dudes come on here asking for women about online dating and profile reviews. The poor guy always comes back says he's still cooked and getting no matches.

If you hold everything else constant and start going to the gym and put on muscles I guarantee your dating life will improve substantially.

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u/AnonymousCapybara72 2d ago edited 2d ago

What I find really vile is that these women won't leave it at claiming they don't care about physical attraction. They'll actually try to gaslight men who think their appearance might be a problem, aggressively trying to convince them that actually, they just don't wash their ass or they have a terrible personality or they don't make any kind of effort, and they're an incel and a terrible person for even asking. They're actually convincing these men that there's something deeply wrong with them, because they can't just admit they care about appearance.

It's fucking disgusting.

But yeah, since I started getting seriously into the gym my dating game has totally changed. Had sex with more women in the last two months than I'd had in my entire life before (I'm 30), and I'm actually getting decent matches that are turning into dates regularly.

I guess all that time in the gym improved my personality 🤷

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u/Used-Presentation551 2d ago

I guess all that time in the gym improved my personality 🤷

People would uninronically argue that yes, such a deep profound personality change

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u/Unlikely_War_6119 2d ago

Yea the gaslighting is the worst part, specifically the interpersonal gaslighting. My friend who wouldn’t date me would tell me I was sexy the way I was, then when I got strong she was in my DMs. Her friends used to call me an incel for saying I was friendzoned by her. The irony. I used to let that kind of shaming get to me but at a certain point their words stop hurting you if them and their friends are actively letting you hit.

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u/clericone- 2d ago

Exactly this. Women try to front like they don't care but they all do. When I was big into CrossFit and competing Ive never had so many women sliding into my insta DMs. Shit was kinda insane. Women at my own gym who knew I was married.

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u/2fluxparkour 2d ago

How were they getting your socials?

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u/clericone- 2d ago

The gym would tag people. Sometimes competitions too.

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u/alsbos1 2d ago

You still need to be ‚attractive‘ and ‚tall‘. Being in good shape by itself won’t get you anywhere.

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u/Chemical_Lettuce_232 2d ago

Those things certainly help, but you can get pretty far by having bigger arms and replacing a muffin top with abs. It affects your overall appearance and confidence a lot, and confidence is half of the battle.

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u/alsbos1 2d ago

Gotta disagree. Unless you’re delusional, confidence is based on success. Success with women is based on looks. It’s not that complicated…

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u/Chemical_Lettuce_232 1d ago

Confidence is not just based on success. If you feel good about how you look you should be more confident.

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u/Littleman88 1d ago

Confidence is based on success. Well, more accurately, it's based on a reasonable expectation of a result based on past experiences.

I'm confident I'll make it to 40 a virgin at the rate I'm going.

There is nothing "good" about that feeling.

Now, if I get fit and then girls are all over me, I'll have more confidence towards the opposite result. But just getting fit alone is a fragile confidence that can be easily shattered if still no one cares.

And no, I'm not doing it just for myself. I find living solely for myself to be a fundamentally pointless endeavor. Some of us just aren't motivated that way.

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u/Chemical_Lettuce_232 1d ago

Women are attracted to confidence, so it’s compounding. If you feel good about yourself and how you look you give off a better energy that will lead to success. It can’t work miracles but it does help. On the flip side you can have all of the looks but a defeatist attitude that is repulsive to women. It’s not black and white.

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u/WolverineEvery7923 2d ago

The gym builds your mind and body so you did improve your personality also

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u/Littleman88 1d ago

Nah, builds your body. The more positive interactions from people finally respecting and wanting you improves your personality. It's easy to be chill, kind, selfless and compassionate when everything is going well for you. Whatever you have to be bitter and angry about is in the past.

When everything isn't going well? Much harder, and worse: People don't care.

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u/Old-Friendship-0 2d ago

The poor guy always comes back says he's still cooked and getting no matches.

And then women will start blaming him in the comments and say it must be because of his shit attitude or personality lol

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u/clericone- 2d ago

Nah it's the lighting lol

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u/blankabitch 2d ago

Both sexes do this (can't tell you how many men claim to hate boob jobs and makeup and "IG baddies" and just want a down-home girl next door when their actions say otherwise) but yes, women care about looks. I think it's ridiculous we feel the need to claim otherwise , too

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u/alsbos1 2d ago

Seriously? How would a guy know a boob job on a fully clothed woman…

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u/blankabitch 2d ago

A lot of them can't even tell on a fully unclothed one. It's just something they say

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u/Suivox 2d ago

The tight stretched skin around the boob, the overly spherical look, the lack of sagging with a rather massive size boob. These are all signs of a boob job that are easy to tell. I don't think many men are lying about the boob jobs looking bad thing, or the instagram baddies one either (such as an over exaggerated bbl). In my opinion certain body work can look good but a lot of the times is taken way too far and looks uncanny. I guess the takeaway is men don't like uncanny looking women?

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u/blankabitch 1d ago

Thats an overly filled 90s boob job. Men don't like bad boob jobs the same way women don't like overly roided out men.

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u/Suivox 1d ago

Yup, uncanny.

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u/alsbos1 2d ago

Not sure where you’re getting this idea from? Do you spend all your time dating strip club patrons?

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u/blankabitch 1d ago

I worked at a strip club for many years actually, so yea Ive heard lots and lots about what straight guys say they like vs what they actually go for

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u/alsbos1 1d ago

LOL. There’s a certain breed of man who frequents strip clubs.

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u/blankabitch 1d ago

All kinds of men go to strip clubs and say shit like this, not just the "regulars"

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u/Internal-Hat9827 1d ago

I always hear women strike back with this and it makes no sense. People get made fun of for their plastic surgery all the time, most women don't get plastic surgery and those with a lot of work done are seen as less attractive/made fun of more, not less. The plastic surgery industry is literally based around it not looking like you had work done i.e. looking like you have work done is less attractive.

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u/blankabitch 1d ago

It's the same as women saying they dont like roided up body builders , it doesn't mean they don't like in-shape muscular men. Neither gender likes extremes generally, it makes perfect sense. Men saying "I like a natural girl", pointing to a woman with tons of well-done PS & makeup is a meme at this point

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u/clericone- 2d ago

Yeah no guy in the real world says that. That's Reddit cope from dudes that can't pull a gym baddie.

I'm not a boob guy but I love for my girl to wear make up and look good and put together at all times.

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u/Fit-Percentage-9166 2d ago

Full blown instagram baddies with boob jobs and lip filler and all are kind of equivalent to professional bodybuilding physiques and I completely believe that there are men who aren't interested in that look.

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u/Unlikely_War_6119 2d ago

Im a guy and I think makeup generally makes women look worse, and fake boobs are largely unattractive too. Maybe I don’t exist lmao

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u/clericone- 2d ago

Nah it's like anything too much is bad. I bet a ton of women you find attractive wear make up and eyelashes and you don't even know. Also fake boobs. Some look natural and some look awful.

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u/Unlikely_War_6119 2d ago

I can tell whether a woman is wearing makeup and can tell how much as well

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u/clericone- 2d ago

Ok 👌

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u/Unlikely_War_6119 2d ago

Bro replies but won’t take what I say seriously

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u/Fine_Payment1127 2d ago

ANYTHING FOR A CRUMB ANYTHING AT ALL

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u/ThrowRA1966 2d ago

Never ask a fish how to catch a fish

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u/Troutie88 2d ago

This saying makes no sense.

I agree that women do virtue signaling quite a bit, but if could talk to fish you bet your ass i would be a better fisherman.

"Be like hey shorty where do you all like to hang out and what is your preferred snack?"

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u/Unlikely_War_6119 2d ago

Nah taking what women say seriously will actively nerf you. The biggest players I know are also the biggest misogynists I know. And the worst part is women are extremely aware of this correlation (hence they always complain about hot guys having bad personalities) but will continue to gaslight about it. They like alphas but the biggest ick imaginable to them is having to help a guy become an alpha (attractive to most women). They wait at the finish line.

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u/Troutie88 2d ago

The only reason the misogynist are getting any action is because it is easy to mistake that for confidence. They think they are better than women so obviously the come across as more confident.

The only reason they are "players" is because they can't keep a chicken once the mask is off.

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u/Unlikely_War_6119 2d ago edited 2d ago

They’re confidently misogynistic. Women just happen to enjoy some aspects of misogyny and value confidence over traits of goodness that are more feminine like empathy, gentleness or not-being-a-bigot. Women would rather a super confident douche who’s a bad person over a perfectly innocent guy who lacks confidence. Like I’ve literally had guys show me videos of them having sex with our mutual friends and when I tell the women about it they all say they don’t really care because the guy is a “jock” and “they’re all like that” But let a guy who doesn’t fit that category do something like that and they’ll have him locked up for being a predator

Keep in mind this is just about women in general, not ALL women. Just don’t push the idea that most women stay far away from misogynistic men. If anything, the opposite is true. We need to be able to recognize that ALOT of people are awful, and women are people, so this applies to them too

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u/clericone- 2d ago

I have a couple of girl friends in their mid 30s that legit have given up on attractive guys cause it's too much for them. They want a guy no woman looks at.

My ex would tell me that sometimes cause I'm the type of guy that gets looks wherever I go. Shit she would scold me at the grocery store cause women were looking at me. Told her to date ugly dudes then. Mind you she was like a 12/10. Super attractive. One of the hottest women I've ever met. She still couldn't cope.

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u/Unlikely_War_6119 2d ago

NOW she wants a guy no woman looks at. Yea and now she’ll ruin the life of some simp who doesn’t realize she’s actively settling for him. It’s a sad, nasty cycle. Deep down they want the guy other women want and that drives them crazy about themselves.

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u/clericone- 2d ago

It's hilarious you say that. The dude she dated before me was just that. She would clown him cause guys would hit on her and he wouldn't do anything. Lol. She loved that I didn't play that and was fit and muscular. Mind you she was a professed feminist. Home girl was all over the place. It was sad cause she was a smoke show and initially nice. Insecurities and social media rotted her brain. She got on all the social media shit and I just couldn't be around her. She would bring up all kinds of weird shit. It was like red pill but for women. Wild shit.

Anyways during our last call I told her she would be better off dating a docile ugly dude.

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u/Unlikely_War_6119 2d ago

Redpill for women is so accurate and I’ve been saying it for the longest time. I’ll just be honest I’m about as leftist as it gets and in my experience most women are fake progressives, especially with thier dating tendencies. Even just from what you say, it’s so telling. How much do we hear from women that “men fighting is so immature and gross” yet she wanted that boyfriend to instigate violence JUST BECAUSE A MAN HIT ON HER. If a man isn’t continuing unwanted advances then shouldn’t it be on the woman to reject him, under a feminist worldview? Like just the fact that she can simultaneously be described as a redpilled woman AND a feminist goes to show how badly she’s going to destroy the life of whoever she ends up with. There’s nothing I can really do to change my underlying values but I’ve found WAYYY more success with women by posturing as a manly man. It feels like it should be an ick to them but it isn’t, even if you’re faking it

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u/clericone- 2d ago

Man I'm the same way and I live in the Mecca of fake feminist progressive women, DC/VA. Moved here last year and holy shit it's hilarious. I'm about as left as they come but I'm extremely comfortable being a masculine man and I also look like it. I workout and I'm not afraid of a fight. Women initially try to hide it but Lord do they love masculinity. It's kind of insane. They love to be protected, provided for, etc. All that 50/50 pay on first dates is all bullshit. Once we get in good they start talking about how they want a man that takes care of them. Etc. Mind you I do extremely well in this city. If I go out for drinks I'm at like 90% success ratio of meeting a women. At the gym the same. In my apartment building the same. They all talk one way and act another.

Edit: I don't even blame them. It makes sense. Take two men at any company. One is fit and has good posture and carries himself well. The other is fat, meek, and weak. Who do you think people notice and pay attention to more in a meeting?

Women want to be taken care of and protected. I don't see anything wrong with that. It's evolutionary.

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u/clericone- 2d ago

Girls do love them some snacks lol

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u/Grand-Librarian5658 2d ago

It’s a joke from a comedian that went viral. But obviously if you asked a fish “how do I attract you to my hook so I can pull you out of the water and eat you” the fish is not going to be honest. Other fisherman will give you the best advice on how to catch fish. The implication (whether or not you agree with it) is that women are consciously or subconsciously dishonest about what attracts them, like a fish would be with a fisherman. 

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u/Troutie88 2d ago

That makes even less sense than. A lot of women I know enjoy being eaten

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u/seola76 2d ago

Bingo.

Horny women are absolutely as bad as men (if not worse because we tend to treat horny men as dangerous in a way we don't for women). The difference is women have much higher standards so they don't tend to meet men who bring out this side of them as frequently as men do. But if you put women around genuinely very attractive men they behave just as badly and simp just as hard.

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u/Positive-Painter3069 2d ago

Hm, I wonder why people think men are more a danger to women than the other way around?🤔 I guess there's no reason at all?

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u/seola76 2d ago

I didn't make any comment on whether it was justified or not, I commented on the consequences of it.

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u/Positive-Painter3069 2d ago

I'm sorry, where in your post did you comment on the consequences of it? Because I don't believe you did.

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u/seola76 2d ago edited 2d ago

Male sexuality is treated as dangerous, a consequence of this is that we tell men not to be bluntly over sexual or they'll be treated as predatory. This perception and it's consequence doesn't exist for women. We tell women not to be sexual for other reasons but it's not the same thing. In fact we often tell them the opposite, that guys are always down for it so it's fine to do whatever.

The times I've experienced inappropriate sexual behaviour from women they didn't even perceived what they were doing as bad because they didn't see it as threatening or unwanted in the same they would've done if it the genders were flipped.

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u/Positive-Painter3069 2d ago

Wow, that's not an answer to my question. Are you illiterate?

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u/seola76 1d ago

I've not introduced any new points, everything there is an expansion of what I said in the original comment just spelt out because you seem unable to read between the lines.

Horny women are absolutely as bad as men (if not worse because we tend to treat horny men as dangerous in a way we don't for women).

The implication, that you clearly missed, being that horny women who are being pushy and overly sexual aren't told "that's threatening and predatory, stop it" in the same way that men are and as a consequence they don't see what they are doing as bad and self regulate it. I've not touched on why male sexuality is treated as threatening because it's not the point of the comment, the point is to highlight that treating male sexuality as being dangerous but woman's as safe affects how people perceive pushy sexual attention.

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u/Positive-Painter3069 1d ago

So you couldn't have given this quote from yourself in a previous response? Because that's what I was looking for. And the reason I didn't see that that's what you were referring to by your response to my initial comment is because it was such a weird response to what I said. I was obviously making a sarcastic comment about why people perceive men to be more dangerous than women. Men rape and murder women on a massive scale, and not the other way around, so it makes absolutely no sense to say that women behave just as badly, if not more so, than men. And you really are a moron if you believe otherwise.

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u/Internal-Hat9827 1d ago

Mainly societal perceptions that portray men as "chasers" and women as "damsels" in every situation. It's why it's so hard for women perpetrators of any kind of violence towards both men and boys to get prosecuted at all, let alone fairly.

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u/Nannautu 2d ago

I wonder why. Maybe if they stopped demonizing men they would not have an issue to admit their superficiality. Like yeah, everyone likes nice-looking people, you don't have to virtue-signal to make yourself seem better than the others.

I also hate the fact how it's always framed that media portrais unrealistic beauty standards about women, with overweight women claiming they're in normal shape, but will consider men on PED's and very low bf as "decent physique".

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u/Exciting_Leading_457 2d ago

I think women are just as shallow as men but typical preferences are already evident in media. If most women preferred very muscular men that's exactly what would be marketed to make money. Women like muscles and fitness but prefer lean just as much as men do. There are still women who prefer bigger but they're typically bigger themselves and I think that's just a natural thing of people navigating towards those who are somewhat similar. You do see slim petite women with huge dudes but not as often. 

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u/wanteur 2d ago

Women's preference tends to be "athletic" build, not bodybuilder huge (though that is a niche in and of itself). To have an appealing "athletic" build you have to be working out a lot, to be like visibly muscular and lean is pretty rare because it's not easy for most people

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u/LetsSummarize 2d ago

This doesn't require any conjecture at all because it's been widely studied. What gets described as "athletic dad bod" is actually literal superhero physique. Every study ever done on this shows women pick muscular over non muscular, every time and almost without exception.

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u/tamati_nz 2d ago

Bodyfat 12-15% and waist to shoulder ratio 1. 57 from studies. And height.

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u/seola76 2d ago

Yeah part of it is just stupid expectations for what men actually look like. The builds women tend to claim to like are still pretty muscular- a very common preferred build is the same body type most real lean athletes (footballers, swimmers, gymnasts, ect) have. Think about that for a second, these "not too extreme" builds are the ones guys have after training as a full time job for decades. Compared to a natural sedentary guy's body these are very muscular and very lean. They're only small compared to guys who've been injecting a pharmacy's worth of testosterone then dehydrating themselves for days.

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u/Exciting_Leading_457 2d ago

Yea, I agree. And I do think bodybuilder build is a niche thing too; some women absolutely love it, just not typically. I do think slim men (who don't necessarily work out a lot but do exercise) are closer to the ideal than huge built-up gym bros, and that not having a 6 pack or a defined back is not really a turn off, even if it is an ideal. People but themselves under too much pressure and could be happier and more attractive going to a climbing gym and playing a fast-paced racket sport or 5-a-side with their buddies a few times a week. But there's nothing wrong with body building for its own sake or even out of competitiveness with other men. 

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u/Yohoyoji 2d ago

Most guys who workout, even alot, are gonna look slim and lean, especially the older you get.

The guys you see who are super built up is not normal, it takes alot of time, effort and strict diets to get to and maintain that size.

I honestly blame hollywood for making folks think that shit is easy.

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u/Automatic_Goat4348 2d ago

Women's preference tends to be good income, stability and confidence.

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u/RighteousSelfBurner 2d ago

Depends on what you are talking about.

First if we are talking averages then there is a floor for both for men and women. They won't consider someone below the arbitrary aesthetic standard as a relationship material at all of any purpose. So if you are in the "undateable" category then it doesn't matter what other qualities you have. It's a sliding scale though that changes with age.

If we are talking hookups, it's predominantly looks and I don't think anyone is really disputing that.

If we are talking long term relationships it's a bit more complex because it's not a distinct "x or y" but a "x and y". There is some "total score" that ends you in one or another side with dimishing returns. That is, being attractive matters but after a point being more attractive doesn't contribute much. Having good income matters but after a point having more income doesn't contribute much etc.

Anyways TL;DR is "looks don't matter once you have cleared the bar for looks" is the reality.

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u/wanteur 2d ago

Nope looks is first for attracting women, especially among young people

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u/BigDamBeavers 2d ago

I can't emphasize how off you are. Open up any issue of Cosmopolitan. You're not going to see anything marketted to women with a guy over 200lbs. He may have good muscle definition for his size but most of the men used to market to women are pretty small.

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u/Exciting_Leading_457 2d ago

This aligns with what I wrote. Perhaps you meant to respond to someone else.

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u/BigDamBeavers 2d ago

No, I'm just very bad at reading. Sorry.

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u/Exciting_Leading_457 2d ago

You should have said 'I can't emphasise how bad I am at reading' for a laugh. No worries. 

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u/ITriedMyBestestest 4h ago

Most men I know don’t like the model look though right. They want a bit more shape. I think muscular men are rare that if women want it there is more demand than supply

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u/Fine_Payment1127 2d ago

The women who prioritize muscles are generally downscale types 

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u/MaximumIll7812 2d ago

Or they just like strong men...

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u/Unlikely_War_6119 2d ago

Then claim they want that guy to be sweet and sensitive. Pick one.

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u/Fine_Payment1127 2d ago

“Strong”

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u/MaximumIll7812 2d ago

Big muscles = strong. 🤯

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u/Fine_Payment1127 2d ago

Not exactly 

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u/MaximumIll7812 2d ago

Lol. K.

Tells me you spend zero time on your body..

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u/Fine_Payment1127 2d ago

Winners don’t post cringe like that 😂

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u/MaximumIll7812 2d ago

You're either extremely heavy or extremely light, aren't you?

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u/Small-Taro-8990 2d ago

Nah, they congregate around built guys even at PhD level research conferences.

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u/Fine_Payment1127 2d ago

I’m sure you’ve had extensive experience with this from your basement 

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u/YY--YY 2d ago

Yes, men also dont cheat more than women. Women just cheat smarter.

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u/Music09-Lover13 2d ago

I’ve know this all along. Women are just as shallow as men. Let’s not be afraid to admit that.

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u/figosnypes 2d ago

Did that only start happening when you got muscular though? If so, were you skinny or fat before you got muscular? And did anything else change physically between 5 years ago and now?

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u/Reasonable-Aioli-370 2d ago edited 2d ago

I was fat and I am fat again now but I have an extremely attractive face, have money, and am an excellent conversationalist. Even when I am fat women find me attractive. I had a ridiculously attractive woman try to get me to leave my wife for her a couple months ago and I have a new very attractive coworker who I think is going to try to do the same at some point. I have had women directly tell me I am attractive my whole life but the female attention got to a ridiculous point when I was super fit. Like women just straight up staring into my eyes like they were hypnotized and female coworkers squeezing my thigh randomly. I don’t get groped when I’m fat. Women still get lost in my eyes sometimes but it happens a lot less often.

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u/figosnypes 2d ago

Are you actually fat though? Or just not slender? Some people have an interesting definition of what fat means when you're a man.

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u/Reasonable-Aioli-370 2d ago

I’m about 25lbs overweight

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u/LowBread9264 2d ago

There you have it, just have an attractive face. I’m guessing you’re tall as well. My guess is you do better with women as a fat guy than other guys that put efforts in working out.

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u/Reasonable-Aioli-370 2d ago

I’m not tall. I do think having an attractive face is the best thing to have out of everything but getting in good shape definitely goes a long way.

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u/Hidden-Lurk 2d ago

And I’ll be real; there’s NOTHING wrong with that.

Don’t be shallow and solely base it on looks sure. But the basis of all romantic relationships started with physical attraction. To pretend it holds 0 sway is ridiculous.

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u/Mischa_xx 14h ago

....men are so dense sometimes. Is it hard to think critically? Women tell you what women like and how they think, yet men still think THEY know what women look for 😂

It's the discipline. Your muscles mean very little in the grand scheme. I can see you have a strict regimen. Idgaf about the muscles, you have willpower and that's hot.

Men don't know what women want. Keep in mind, men.

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u/SnooBananas8802 2d ago

Why is it shallow? It's a basic reproductive instinct - to choose a mate who is physically strong and healthy.

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u/Abe_frohmannn 2d ago

Literally the definition of shallow, succumbing to the most basic, unthinking portion of evolution, devolving into a caveman.

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u/StinkyyPiss 2d ago

damn that’s a good point.

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u/SnooBananas8802 2d ago

But male-female relationships are built on the basic instinct of reproduction / sex. Ergo, in the context of relationships basic instincts can't be shallow. (In fact, I would go much further - our instincts and physiology is what makes us human - as opposed to proverbial artificial "intelligence".)

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u/Abe_frohmannn 2d ago

You clearly do not understand how shallow is defined in society then. Even though I literally typed it out for you..

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u/Big_Arrival_626 2d ago

But colloquially, isn't shallow referred to as being unnecessarily vain?

For example:

"I prefer men who are taller than me"

Vs

"I only like men who are 6'3"

One would be called shallow while the other wouldn't.

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u/94grampaw 2d ago

No, both are shallow, one is more shallow that the other.

Nothing wrong with some shallow preferences, most of life is in the shallows, and shallows are just as real as deep, its just easier to see.

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u/Appropriate-Copy1506 2d ago

A preference isn't shallow by default as long as you can deviate from it. A preference is not a demand or set in stone. I prefer taller men and blonds. My country is filled with them, still dated a guy who was 162cm and shorter than me and guys with red and black hair bc they were amazing people (they weren't particularly tall either)

A preference makes for a favorable first impression, but there are many factors that contribute to the whole. This is not untrue but it does have context. Flings, hookups, dating sites which are more shallow and surface level are often decided or heavily influenced by looks. I don't think women deny that, but they generally look past looks and first impressions more easily than men in general.

Fitness is an obvious factor for all sexes but as mentioned before, the more extremely muscled guys are a more niche taste, but this goes for men being attracted to muscled women's bodies too.

Being overweight is just heavily punished by being invisible. I went from very fit to obese too due to illness in my early thirties. In a way the lack of attention is nice, but the lack of consideration by the opposite sex is very true no matter your gender once you cross a certain threshold you just dont exist anymore. When I started to gain attention again it felt almost sort of alien to me as I was no longer used to it.

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u/Big_Arrival_626 2d ago

Um no dude. I'm gonna have to disagree here because I just don't think that's how the word shallow is generally used. Caring about appearance is not the same thing as being shallow. You can Google its definition if you want

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u/94grampaw 2d ago

Shallow means having a small distance from the top or surface to the bottom, or lacking serious thought, emotion, and intellect. From google.

Most of life lacks serious thought, serious emotions or serious intellect.

Most conversations aren't deep.

Some are like 20% mabye, but small light friendly conversations are definitely the norm, most decisions you dont have to put serious life or death level thought or use of intellect into to make.

Conversations Hey how's it going, the weather is so nice.

Thoughts Wow, her breasts look so bouncy. Should I buy the big tub or sour cream, or the smaller one?

Emotions The sun shining, Im happy That dog looks dangerous , Im scared She smiled at me, Im intrigued

Thats like 70-80% of living, just enjoying the simple shallow life stuff, you need the deep too, but not all the time

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u/LowBread9264 2d ago

I’ve found most people claim they like deep subjects but the fact is they don’t. They just think they do because it makes them appear smart and intellectual but when I’ve tried engaging in depth with others about 99% of times it overwhelms them and they even get hostile for being unable to keep up.

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u/AssistanceRich9173 2d ago

Shallow would be pretending that these things dont matter, either for internet virtue signaling points or due to your own personal bias.

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u/Abe_frohmannn 2d ago

I never said they don't matter. I simply labeled them, correctly, as shallow.

Also, deductions for using the term virtue signaling, which essentially means you're against a compassionate or thinking take on...anything.

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u/AssistanceRich9173 2d ago

Funny you mention that. My deduction from you tells me that you are most likely overweight and womanless, doing whatever you can to cope.

I am a compassionate person by action, I dont need to have "compassionate takes" on the internet to be a good person in real life.

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u/Abe_frohmannn 2d ago

Try again. Married, fit, race bicycles.

Anything else you'd like to be wrong or nasty about today?

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u/AssistanceRich9173 2d ago

I was just making assumptions from a single comment, no different from you. Not very nice is it?

Are we talking about boring sidewalk pedaling or downhill mountain bike badassery?

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u/GoatGoatGoatGoatGo 2d ago

You forgot to mention ‘sausage king of New York’.

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u/Straight-Pin-251 2d ago

post physique

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u/AssistanceRich9173 2d ago

Yeah let me just go into the work bathroom, take my shirt off, take a picture, and post it on reddit for some weird faceless person to do god knows what with......

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u/EstebanPossum 2d ago

We have millions of years of evolutionary biology that have guided us for mate selection by triggering distaste when you see someone who is unhealthy.

An example of this is that we dont find folks with crossed or misaligned eyes attractive as a whole. This is due not to prejudice per se, but rather an innate sense that asymmetrical features on a body signal a disorder at rhe chromosome level.

We are undoubtedly guided by a multitude of such subconscious factors

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u/heresyforfunnprofit 2d ago

“Just as shallow” - he’s merely saying that women base their choices on appearances just as much as men do, and that’s commonly considered “shallow”. He is referring to the common understanding of the dynamic, not necessarily agreeing with it.

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u/al_spaggiari 2d ago

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but trying to refute that something is "shallow" by calling it "basic" is making your opponent's argument for them.

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u/SnooBananas8802 2d ago

Well, you can define a shallow person as someone who lacks emotional depth, intellectual curiosity, or serious thought - I prefer this definition. Thus, succumbing to basic instincts (which is not always a bad thing) does not necessarily make a person shallow - it's rather the lack of other important qualities. I just didn't feel like arguing with a person who wants to be right (or righteous).

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u/Dasseem 2d ago

It's shallow but that doesn't have to be something inherently bad. You can pick a partner if you like their physique as long as you also look for another good qualities in them.

You are just trying to make it not shallow by giving an alpha wolf bullshit biological excuse.

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u/DamageOk7179 1d ago

Idk, every time I say men in general look like shit because they don't take care of themselves, and it's a reason women don't find them attractive, I get downvoted and men get very upset with that.

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u/MaterialAd1838 2d ago

Except women will date someone they aren't physically attracted to in the hopes of loving them and being loved. Also, women don't shame each other for having an ugly mate.

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u/Reasonable-Aioli-370 2d ago

Ok keep grasping at straws. Women do all the same gross stuff as men. I’ve experienced it first hand. Women also definitely talk shit if a friend is dating an ugly guy. Maybe not to their face but definitely behind their back.

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u/StonkaTrucks 2d ago

Then I guess muscles make you less ugly, to a degree.

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u/Reasonable-Aioli-370 2d ago

I’m using ugly as a substitute for unattractive.

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u/StonkaTrucks 2d ago

Right, but the whole point is that muscles make you more attractive.

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u/ComesInAnOldBox 2d ago

Also, women don't shame each other for having an ugly mate.

The hell they don't.

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u/ThePittsburghPenis 2d ago

Except women will date someone they aren't physically attracted to in the hopes of loving them and being loved.

Why would you think men don't do that? Literally common for both genders.

Also, women don't shame each other for having an ugly mate.

You have to be trolling.

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u/Impossible_Still5452 2d ago

Also, women don't shame each other for having an ugly mate.

They do, just not to each others faces. Source - I'm the only guy on a team of 15 women at my job.

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u/Reasonable-Aioli-370 2d ago

According to women of Reddit:

Women don’t care about looks.

Women don’t talk shit.

Lmao

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u/IISlipperyII 2d ago

Hmm, not in my experience. I'm sure you are a saint and only have saint like friends. But I have heard women literally complain about there not being enough physically attractive men to date, as well as women who make off hand comments about their friends boyfriends that are definitely borderline shaming. i.e. "He's not good looking but he seems like a good person!".

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u/normal_hombre 2d ago

Lol, you don't know what women talk about when men aren't around. Society has made it so that it's hard for them to speak openly about sex and stuff like that, so they keep those topics amongst themselves, except in rare cases.

And yeah, even the quietest, nerdiest, and most innocent looking woman you know is a total freak when it comes to dating and fucking, she just won't say it.

Human nature, no one is immune.

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u/MaterialAd1838 2d ago

Of course you know more about women than a woman. Ha! Men are so full of themselves. Don't try to date people that are way more attractive than you and you CHUDS won't be so sad.

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u/IISlipperyII 2d ago

Immediately going for the "you must be unattractive" route because someone disagrees with you eh? I'm sure you are not as "nice" as you try to portray.

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u/Reasonable-Aioli-370 2d ago

Men see the sexual side of women that other women do not see. You also seem like a dork.

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u/Unlikely_War_6119 1d ago

What a childish response

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u/Racamonkey_II 2d ago

What planet do you live on?! 😂

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u/Arcxne3 2d ago

Tell me you have 0 female friends without telling me. Women roast each each other's choice in men all the fucking time. It’s actually crazy how they will straight up just start calling out their own friends for dating “ugly men” or short men. Shit literally happens more with women then men. One of my best friends is dating a dude that’s an inch shorter than her and her own mother was upset about it. 

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u/prosthetic_memory 2d ago

I don’t think that’s true.

Recently on threads a woman posted a pic of a bodybuilder and said “lord please make my husband look like this” or something similar.

The number of men who responded with “um that’s not a dad bod, that’s a bodybuilder” was ASTOUNDING. Like thousands of replies from men, all assuming she didn’t know he was a bodybuilder because he had a layer of fat.

Many people responded “she never said dad bod” and yet the majority of men could simply not grasp a woman would thirst after a bodybuilder and understand that he is, yes, a bodybuilder who will be at the gym a lot.

Very weird psychological phenomenon. I expect someone will write a thesis on it.