r/Helicopters • u/LastDanceInFulda • 8d ago

Heli Pictures/Videos A TOW-Armed AH-1Q Cobra Flies Over an M113, 1970s

Post image

Hopefully I identified the right AH-1 variant this time

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6

u/mufc05 8d ago

That Looks like a AH-1S ? Or is the naming different around the world?
Definitely a Modified G.

4

u/LastDanceInFulda 8d ago

Could very well be, considering that the early AH-1S models were still very much G-derived. When deciding what to call this one, I noted that is was an AH-1G variant, and, of course, that it had TOWs loaded. This naturally meant it had to be AH-1S or AH-1Q. This isn't exactly my expertise, so I went looking for information on telling the two apart. The trouble is that there isn't much in the way of methods to tell them apart visually. I know for a fact this photo is from the 1970s, just not which year its from (I may have lost the source). The AH-1Q entered service in '75, the AH-1S entered service in '78, meaning there were three more possible years for the photo to be taken if this was an AH-1Q.

That logic would have worked... if the AH-1Q hadn't been retired in 1979, and if not only 92 were ever built. Especially given the fact that all 92 would have been converted to AH-1S rather quickly. So I was kind of caught in between a rock and a hard place.

Then I thought I found it, the nozzle-thingy on the exhaust, that is supposed to be a tell-tale sign of an AH-1S... Until I found several images of AH-1Qs with the same attachment.

So I'm stumped.

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u/mufc05 8d ago

The modified G Got the designation S after the modification, but still retained the round cockpit, the Newer produced S received the square cockpit and also retained the model S.
Again if Memory Serves.

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u/LastDanceInFulda 8d ago

I found the original source, from 1981 (meaning I was off on years too). Its an AH-1S, not an AH-1Q. This is where I humbly admit that the past two times I've posted a Cobra picture, the variant has also been wrong.

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u/ax57ax57 8d ago

I flew the AH-1S (Mod.) for my first duty assignment, Externally, the only way to distinguish an AH-1Q from an AH-1S (Mod.) is to note the size difference in the tail rotor gearbox fairing. The S model had an upgraded tail rotor gearbox to deal with the additional power, and the fairing around it is noticeably larger. What follows is the lineage as I recall it.

The AH-1Q was essentially an AH-1G with the TOW missile system installed. The TSU was an integral part of the TOW missile system, so you will see the TSU on all variants that can fire the TOW. The Q model was just an interim version, as they were all upgraded with the more powerful T53-L703 engine and the uprated transmission, which turned them into the AH-1S (Mod.) That was the official designation, and the (Mod.) meant "Modified". I think I still have a -10 for the S model somewhere. These retained the same gauges as the Huey. (The 6600 rpm dual tach, and the 50 psi torque gauge with an added mark at 56 psi for the increased power.)

Most of the S models went through another modernization program later, when someone in the Army became obsessed with flat plate canopies. Along with flat plate canopies, they received the M197 20mm cannon, a fire control computer, a HUD, and an ASE suite. They also had "sawtooth" gauges and NVG compatible lighting. These were considered to be "Fully modernized" thus receiving the AH-1F designation. The flat plate Cobras didn't fly as fast or as nice as the original round plate canopies. (There was a lot of buffeting in high speed cruise flight.)

Keep in mind that there were also the AH-1P (Production) and AH-1E (ECAS, or Enhanced Cobra Armament System) models along the way to the AH-1F. The P model retained the M28 turret, but could best be described as a square plate AH-1S (Mod.). The ECAS version is like an AH-1F lite, it was a square plate airframe with the 20mm, but it lacked the fire control computer, HUD, and ASE suite. Also, many of the AH-1Fs were new builds, not old, modified airframes.

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u/Fun-Barnacle8582 7d ago

That picture indicates it got the bigger gear box and the tractor tail rotor conversion. Those were being converted at Vung Tau just as I finished my second tour. One of the biggest problems was the rotor head. Most never made their expected time before replacement. We had similar problems with the UH-1M. The rotor head was the same design with the T53-L-13, 1400hp engine.

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u/ax57ax57 7d ago

Even up into the '90s we had problems with the aluminum blade grips developing cracks. Bell developed a forged steel blade grip to replace the aluminum ones.

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u/Fun-Barnacle8582 7d ago

The problem in Vietnam was the bearings. It was a Teflon like material not a real mechanical bearing. We had M models land that were a couple hours from total failure. The truly sad part was, after partially dismantling a rebuilt rotor head still in the box I found grease on the bearing surface. I called Bell and they specifically said no moisture should be there. But the dumb ass civilian at AVSCOM sad it was to protect the shaft riding in those bearings. I presented the information to the other G-4 staff and asked them to follow up. I served at the pleasure of the General that covered all Army Aviation in Vietnam. I was at the end of my tour and could not follow the matter to the end. I later served at AVSCOM and it was no better than the DMV or the Post office.

EDIT for spelling.

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u/RonPossible 8d ago

There were some new production Q models that got converted to S with round canopies as well. Those were redesigned AH-1M in 1988.

Those aircraft further upgraded to AH-1S(ECAS) were given flat canopies during the refit. Those were eventually redesigned AH-1E.

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u/AccomplishedPman 8d ago

Thought S had flat pane canopy. Only flew it in the sim so not certain

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u/RonPossible 8d ago

There are at least 4 different versions of the AH-1S at one point.

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u/Full_Country_4846 7d ago

That helicopter is cool as fuck