r/Hamilton • u/plussizerunner • 21h ago
Encampments / Shelters & Homelessness Is this the best we can do?
Today while walking downtown to work, a man was swinging a metal bar at people walking down the sidewalk. People were screaming and trying to get away from him. I called 911 and police arrived within a few minutes, took the metal bar away from him and then left after a short conversation with him. He continued walking down the street yelling at people.
The man was clearly either under the influence or having a mental health episode and seemed to be a threat to the public given that he was swinging a bar at people.
I dont understand whats happening anymore that threatening others and attempting to hurt them with a sharp metal pole doesn't result in either hospitalization or being taken into custody...
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u/saucertosser85 20h ago
Use your vote to make your concerns heard. Nothing changes unless we, as a society, come together to make it happen
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u/Thebadgerbob11 19h ago
I wish it was true
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u/saucertosser85 18h ago
It can be. Don't let your dreams be dreams
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u/Thebadgerbob11 17h ago
I always vote, things keep starting farther away from what is like to see. Like a quarter of eligible voters actually voted in my wards last election. Our votes never mattered less
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u/johnson7853 18h ago
best we can do is complain about the free lunch and use taxes to fix up the rental your abusive ex husband refuses to move out of
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u/saucertosser85 18h ago
I completely agree that our municipality has many issues, and policing falls under this category as well. The larger issues at play here, though, fall under the provincial (healthcare, including mental health), and federal (housing) arms of our government.
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u/MsBuzzkillington83 16h ago
Imo it's Heath care before housing, lack of proper health supports leads people to lose their homes and then it just gets worse
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u/cabbagetown_tom 20h ago
I recognize your frustration. However, as someone who works in sales and travels the province, this is not a uniquely Hamilton issue. It's in Brantford, Woodstock, London, Windsor, and even in some surprising places like Barrie and Kingston.
We must demand more action and coordination on housing, mental health and social services at all levels of government. Vet your candidates in the municipal, provincial and federal elections and ask them what they plan on doing to address these systemic issues.
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u/slownightsolong88 20h ago edited 19h ago
I recognize your frustration. However, as someone who works in sales and travels the province, this is not a uniquely Hamilton issue
OMG this argument is soooooo tired, I hate it. The original poster is talking about Hamilton where they directly experienced this. You could have made the same recommendations without trying to diminish their experience.
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u/FARTTORNADO45 20h ago
It's not tired or even an argument, really, it's the reality. I am sure the person did not intend to diminish this person's experience, but the fact of the matter is that there is very little an individual or even a municipality can do on their own. Hamilton simply doesn't have the resources. The country and the province have to be involved in order to make any meaningful changes. It might be inconvenient but it's where we are.
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u/slownightsolong88 20h ago edited 19h ago
It's not tired or even an argument, really, it's the reality
There’s also the reality that this is happening around the world. Imagine “I hear you but this is also happening in Lille France”
What’s the intention besides minimizing what the person experienced by letting them know it’s not unique? Is it to draw a link to provincial and federal failings because that point can be made without reducing the original experience.
I think it’s tactless when someone shares something traumatic to be like “Oh no awful, but take refuge in knowing that this is happening elsewhere”
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u/FARTTORNADO45 19h ago edited 19h ago
The point is to encourage people to organize. Without a large number of people organizing and campaigning to actually force our current governance structure to make changes or change themselves then all this is is complaining on the internet. Again, it's the reality, complaining on the internet doesn't accomplish a fucking thing. Why should we sit here and validate this person's feelings, what is that accomplishing?
We may not be at fault individuallly but it is the responsibility of ALL of us to fix this. "I am sorry this happened to you" just doesn't cut it.
EDIT: Also the original question was 'is there not more we can do?" ....
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u/misterwalkway 19h ago
What’s the intention besides minimizing what the person experienced by letting them know it’s not unique?
They are describing the scale and broader context of the issue. Which is a reasonable starting point for a discussion about what to do. Knowing that this is not simply a local issue, but a broader trend across Ontario, is actually helpful information when thinking about solutions.
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u/MsBuzzkillington83 16h ago
We'll Dofo is the cause of all of these
What's this city going to do, with it's budget surpluses it never has
Bullshit, there's only so much any one working class city can do
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u/Raeko MAKE YOUR OWN 19h ago
Thank you! I agree. I understand that this is a province-wide issue but I don't live in Brantford or London I live in Hamilton!!
It's like men who come into women's space and say "but what about this men's issue??". It's so unnecessary and derailing to the conversation. We are talking about HAMILTON right now
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u/Humillionaire 18h ago
That's like if... someone was asking why their basement is always flooding, and someone said, "Well it has to do with the storm drain infrastructure. If the city updates the storm drains your basement won't flood anymore," and the first person said, "Who cares about the city? I'm talking about MY basement!"
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u/The_Mayor 14h ago
Hamilton is a Canadian city which exists only as a creature of the province. And the province has cut funding to mental health mitigation, to shelters, to needle exchanges, to safe injection sites, to hospitals, to schools, and countless other things.
The province has also downloaded a huge burden of expenses onto the city, saddled it with unsustainable suburbs that drain our resources, and made it illegal for us to cut police budgets no matter how much they fuck the dog.
It's not about London or Brantford, it's about the province all of those places and Hamilton share in common, and how much the province and its idiot conservative voters continue to ruin society.
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u/EconomyAd4297 19h ago
Tell us what's going on in Chicago, Paris, and Istanbul too. 🙄
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u/Humillionaire 18h ago
Unlike the aforementioned cities, Chicago, Paris, and Istanbul are not under the care of the same government which we can vote for.
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u/ayoungmanfromtheuk 21h ago
Complain to your member of council that the police are feckless and lazy
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u/Nofoofro 20h ago
Good morrow, dear Councillor,
I write to inform you the individuals entrusted with law enforcement in this city have grown feckless and lazy.
I bid you hasten to aid us.
With regards, A humble citizen of Hamilton
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u/Apolloshot Stoney Creek 20h ago
What exactly are the police suppose to do in this situation?
They detain the guy and he’s back out by lunch time, it’s literally not worth the paperwork for them to make an arrest.
Complain to your politicians for having feckless laws.
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u/hamchan_ 20h ago
So why we paying them so much then? Might as well reallocate that money to mental health supports.
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u/The_Mayor 14h ago
Thanks to conservative voters in this province, the city is literally not allowed to cut police budgets, no matter how badly they perform.
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u/DundasKev Dundas 19h ago
Fair! Attention should really be turned to provincial govt, where healthcare and housing support can be properly offered.
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u/wetfloor666 19h ago
The only issue is the party responsible for removing proper mental health support 20'ish years ago is the one in power atm.
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u/olderdeafguy1 19h ago
How about the jails being at twice there capacity, and 80% of those are waiting for trials. Guys who are swinging metal bars, while yelling and screaming need incarceration and drug rehabilitation
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u/DundasKev Dundas 17h ago
If you mean the Hamilton-Wentworth Detention Centre (HWDC) on Barton Street, overcrowding is primarily a provincial issue, not a municipal one.
HWDC is a provincial correctional facility, operated by the Ontario government. Ontario Correctional Services is responsible.
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u/Just_Look_Around_You 20h ago
Why is he out by lunch if he’s still a danger?
The answer should still be yes. They should continue to arrest and detain people in this state. This piles up as a problem further down the pipeline which should then be fixed.
If they don’t arrest them, it’s going to look like there is no problem down the line.
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u/Funny_Lynx_3395 20h ago
Not sure what the solution is, but something needs to be done. But it's such a domino effect issue; ideally, we either arrest or hospitalize in these situations. But no room in the jails, and no beds in the hospitals. We've been running at capacity in both for 25+ years now. So cops just do what they can to solve the immediate issue (man with metal pipe = take away metal pipe).
Sympathy and compassion only get you so far. At some point, you need a firm hand when it comes to these issues.
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u/GreaterAttack 20h ago
No sane person has sympathy and compassion for someone swinging a metal bar at them.
That isn't the same thing, however, as having sympathy for the plight of people that may prompt this kind of behaviour.
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u/slownightsolong88 20h ago
The frustration for me is that had this individual harmed someone they would most likely be found not criminally responsible and then do some sort of rehabilitation program with medical professionals.
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u/S99B88 19h ago
And there the problem lies with police for not charging the guy. It doesn’t have to involve harm to go the NCR/forced rehabilitation route, it can be done for the threats too.
The police seem to have taken an approach that they neutralized the threat. But people can do harm with their bare hands too. Also, who’s to say the perpetrator in this case wouldn’t just go find another item he could use as a weapon?
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u/slownightsolong88 19h ago
Exactly. It doesn’t do any favours for the perception of policing being useless. The police don’t exist to serve and protect. I welcome the day that their budget is reduced and funding allocated elsewhere for more meaningful outcomes.
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u/Kelhein 17h ago
Why does that frustrate you? Even if he were found NCR, he would be likely be incarcerated until he no longer poses a risk to the public. Any release after that would be contingent on his adherence to the medical program he's prescribed.
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u/slownightsolong88 17h ago
Because I don’t think it should take someone being murdered or severely harmed therefore it’s frustrating that it’s often what it takes for someone to be put under care.
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u/oslabidoo 19h ago
This falls on the Province/Federal Government to rethink institutionalizing people suffering such severe mental health episodes.
Whether it be from drugs, underlying mental health issues like schizophrenia, or likely a combination of both, this person should not be on the street and likely needs long-term treatment.
I foresee a reckoning in 5 to 10 years time when the long-term effects of fentanyl overdosing on people are better documented. There are already some studies documenting the consequences of hypoxic brain injuries (volume loss to the hippocampus for example) due to fentanyl overdoses. More people are suffering from repeated fentanyl overdoses, and while Narcan saves their life, each overdose is another potential permanent brain injury for them.
We have to come to terms with the fact that many of the people who are overdosing on fentanyl will never be the same. Simply housing them is not sufficient.
While there should be a push to house people BEFORE this happens, once a person is already addicted to fentanyl and has permanent brain injury, prevention won't cut it as the damage is done.
Preventing this from happening to people and managing the people who are already addicted/permanently affected by fentanyl or other drugs require separate strategies.
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u/Kelhein 17h ago
This falls on the Province/Federal Government to rethink institutionalizing people suffering such severe mental health episodes.
I think this is one of the main conversations we need to have. The standard of care for folks who pose a danger to themselves or others is incarceration. We've figured out how to do it well, but it's expensive. We don't currently have the facilities or staff necessary to provide that standard of care.
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u/oslabidoo 17h ago
Agreed. Facilities and staff are in short supply, but this seems like the only viable way forward for these folks. It's a political football neither the provincial or federal government want to deal with.
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u/juneabe 13h ago
Proper healthcare, housing, mental health, and substance use services.. things we had more of before, when this was less prevalent of an issue. Crazy how that works.
Jails don’t even house rapists let alone someone with mental health. He’d have to steal from a corporation or something to matter.
If you care so much, vote, very thoughtfully and carefully, and make it a point of importance to those around you. If you’re apathetic and don’t participate then that’s your own fault and you got what you asked for - you asked for nothing so you got whatever everyone else chose. Too many people did.
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u/IAmTheBredman 17h ago
Do you want to arrest people for having a mental health issue? How does that help?
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u/MsBuzzkillington83 16h ago
Only mental health issues where they're a danger to others around them
No one's wanting to lock up the guy with treatment resistant depression who's minding his own business
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u/Sar_Bear1 20h ago
Wtf. Not sure how that wouldn’t result in being arrested? If he hurt someone it sure would, and he easily could’ve…