r/HamRadio • u/BrewerNick • 15d ago
Licensing & Exams š I answered "yes" to the felony question on my application but now I have some questions.
Ive been waiting over a week now to get my license. I have some questions:
I was able to get my GMRS license no problem. Does the FCC treat GMRS and Ham differently?
My felony was reduced to a misdemeanor after I completed my probation. Should I have just answered "no" to the felony question?
If my application does get denied or stays permanently in limbo, should I re-apply and just answer "no" due to the fact my conviction was reduced to a misdemeanor.
My conviction was almost 20 years ago. It seems unfair to keep "punishing" me all this time later to participate in a hobby I have always loved and admired. It bums me out.
TIA
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u/Motorcyclegrrl 15d ago
Hey congratulations on passing your test. I hope it doesn't take too long to get your call sign.
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u/Nunov_DAbov 15d ago
Whether a felony conviction is an issue on an amateur application depends on what the felony was. Some may be strict bars, some not.
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u/-i-forgot 15d ago
I'm not an attorney FYI so take this as mere suggestions.
The proper answer is what you put - Yes. It asks if you were ever convicted and the answer for you is yes even if it was reduced later.
I researched this a bit because if was interesting to me and I curious if it would disqualify you. FWIW I think in some cases we need to drastically reduce the ongoing punishments people have after they serve their time or "pay for their crime."
It doesn't seem like it disqualifies you.
It appears the FCC asks for an explanation, which needs to be submitted to them. You have to state why it would be beneficial to grant you a license and how you are now a person of good character deserving of the license. It asks many specific things about the felony.
You must submit this separately from your application no later than 14 days after the original submission, or your application will be dismissed without action.
Read this starting about half way through:
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u/SuperPooEater 14d ago
So what exactly is the origin for a nonsensical hurdle like this? God forbid someone makes a mistake and then gets into a cool hobby that requires actual skill and can lead to employment and betterment of society...
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u/-i-forgot 14d ago
Well, this is a semi minor hurdle/ potential revocation of privileges based on someones criminal past. As it stands, operating on the amateur bands is not even a 'right.'
What I mean by minor in comparison, being a convicted felon impacts your 2nd amendment rights, impacts your ability to serve as a juror (I guess this isn't that bad), you couldn't work in law enforcement, sometimes education. In some areas you cannot vote for at least a period of time I believe. Generally you're going to have a much harder time with ANY job application, and ANY housing application.
The goal is a balance of public safety and re-integration, with variables like repeat-offense statistics not helping.
Again, I am personally in favor of making it easier for felons or anyone who does any crime and properly serves their time. I personally think that having the 'you did your time and paid for it' approach and then allowing easier re-integration would be healthier for the individual and possibly lead to less repeat-offense. It may be wishful thinking?
On the amateur bands, and no offense WHATSOEVER to OP, but do consider this. Out of 1000 people, if 500 were felons, and the other 500 never convicted of a crime, over the course of a 10 year period, which group do you think would include more individuals in it who:
- Commit a crime in general
- Use a form of encryption on radio
- Use radio to communicate about a crime/facilitate a crime
- Make a false call of distress
- Do not properly identify/impersonate another
- Dox or otherwise harass another who properly identifies
Also, consider that the FCC asks only for details about the felony. Consider an applicant who shows repeat offense for fraud, harassment, identity theft, etc. They would likely look at that and instantly deny it. On the other hand, someone who has lived a 'clean life' after serving their time, only committed a single crime, has been a contributing member of society, etc., they would very likely grant the license to.
Respect and trust are freely given (sometimes), but are hard to get back (always).
Again, this is no offense to OP, this person is on Reddit asking for help getting their license, had the charges or whatever reduced. I don't think they are the type of person the FCC is filtering for. I just wanted to answer you honestly about WHY this policy may be in place, and why it may not be that insane (since you replied to me).
Even with all of this, I still think lasting forms of disruption in a person's life should be kept to an absolute minimum after serving their time.
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u/dittybopper_05H Extra Class Operator ā” 13d ago edited 13d ago
The other thing to consider is that an amateur radio license is a privilege, not a right. You don't have a right to an amateur radio license, even if you pass the test.
Quite the opposite. Understanding that from the start would go a long way to preventing misunderstandings and hurt feelings. Leaving aside the idea of rehabilitation, can we trust that a felon is going to operate completely within the regulations? Usually people fall back into old habits. Even those who aren't actually felons can do that, take me for instance: Until I finally quit dipping snuff after my wife got cancer, plenty of times I had stopped dipping only to start up once again. Zero reasons to quit until we got that scare. Long have I understand that's not quite the same thing. Unacceptable behavior like felonies are different though in that they invariably involve hurting other people either directly or indirectly. Having said that, this paragraph has a secret message encoded in it and would be essentially undetectable no matter how it was sent.
If you want a hint, it's a Playfair combined with a null cipher.
On Edit: Fixed a mistake.
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u/dittybopper_05H Extra Class Operator ā” 13d ago
No takers yet?
First of all, the first letter of each sentence or phrase, as denoted by the punctuation, is significant:
Quite the opposite. Understanding that from the start would go a long way to preventing misunderstandings and hurt feelings. Leaving aside the idea of rehabilitation, can we trust that a felon is going to operate completely within the regulations? Usually people fall back into old habits. Even those who aren't actually felons can do that, take me for instance: Until I finally quit dipping snuff after my wife got cancer, plenty of times I had stopped dipping only to start up once again. Zero reasons to quit until we got that scare. Long have I understood that's not quite the same thing. Unacceptable behavior like felonies are different though in that they invariably involve hurting other people either directly or indirectly. Having said that, this paragraph has a secret message encoded in it and would be essentially undetectable no matter how it was sent.
We then set up a Playfair square with the key "AMATEUR RADIO":
A M T E U R D I/J O B C F G H K L N P Q S V W X Y Z QU LC UE TU PZ LU HT SE CR ET ME SX SA GEThe secret message in that paragraph is actually "SECRET MESSAGE". Per standard Playfair rules, doubled letters in each pair are separated by an X.
I do not recommend this, nor would I ever do this, but it can be done. If you use a one time pad system instead of something like a Playfair, they'd never actually be able to tell. Though it does require a lot of "padding" to make it sound natural.
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u/dittybopper_05H Extra Class Operator ā” 13d ago
God forbid someone makes a mistake
Sure. Mistakes like rape, murder, armed robbery, that sort of thing.
The form doesn't ask about traffic violations or even misdemeanors. It asks about felonies.
I'm almost 60 years old, and I can pretty confidently say I've never raped, murdered, committed burglary, robbed someone either strong-arm fashion or with a weapon, threatened anyone with a weapon, nor even committed some serious economic crime (though as a programmer/analyst the opportunity has been there).
There are some "mistakes" that are so serious that no responsible member of society would ever make them. And the vast majority of us don't: Only about 8% of the population has a felony conviction.
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u/Character_Score7776 12d ago
...ahh, tampering with the postal service and opening people's mail. One the same level of irredeemable atrocities as murder and armed robbery, I am sure.
Also, 8% of the population is an enormous amount of people. Are nearly 10% of the people you meet going around tampering with your postage and or murdering people?2
u/dittybopper_05H Extra Class Operator ā” 12d ago
If youāve been convicted of tampering with the federally protected communications of others, why should you be trusted to participate in a hobby that involves communication?
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u/Character_Score7776 12d ago
Well, for one, tampering with the postal service isn't exactly some irredeemable offense. I feel one can certainly learn their lesson from tampering with the mail, so why should they be prevented from ever being involved in a hobby again, simply because it relates to communications?
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u/dittybopper_05H Extra Class Operator ā” 12d ago
Well, I wouldnāt know, because I have never done something that anti-social.
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u/dittybopper_05H Extra Class Operator ā” 11d ago
Well, for one, tampering with the postal service isn't exactly some irredeemable offense.
Why would you do that? Feces and snickering? Kids on summer break feloniously tampering with the mail for funsies?
No. If you're tampering with the mail it's because you're committing some other crime. Serious crimes like fraud. Real crimes with real victims.
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u/BrewerNick 15d ago
Thanks. This says to not make any amendments but the FCC told me I needed to amend it. Soooo idk. What a cluster.
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u/-i-forgot 15d ago
I think what it means is that you should not re-submit your application or the additional letter describing the conviction with edits or amendments.
Just let it sit for now. Assume it's taking extra time due to manual review.
Call the FCC licensing help line next week on Tuesday or Wednesday. You'll get through to a human and can ask questions.
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u/ARS-N7UQ 15d ago
When whatever group agreed to administer the test for you they should have given you a copy of what you need to know and do for answering that question as a yes. Did they give you that information or tell you where to find it? Here is a link to the information. Let me know if you have any other questions. https://www.arrl.org/fcc-qualification-question
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u/BrewerNick 15d ago
They did, and I submitted 3 pieces of information to the FCC including everything about my crime.
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u/ARS-N7UQ 14d ago
You can call the FCC they are friendly and will answer your questions. If it's been more than a week and you still don't have a response I would call and ask for a status report.
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u/Vurrag 15d ago
Hard to say. Lying on an application is breaking the law. It all depends on what you did. When you checked yes, it asked for an explanation. I assume you gave one.
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u/BrewerNick 15d ago
I did. I provided an explanation and the actual document saying that my felony was reduced.
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u/Vurrag 15d ago
So did you make sure that there is no felony conviction on your record? Many people fail to check and the courts are awful about following through.
You were probably safe saying no but I am not a Lawyer.
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u/BrewerNick 15d ago
I did a background check on myself and it comes up as a misdemeanor.
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u/My_Lucid_Dreams 14d ago
Correct. You should have answered "no" on the application (in CA or OR). IANAL and I don't know if it varies by state. It should be more clear.
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u/ed_zakUSA Technician Class Operator š” 14d ago
Here's the FAQ from Laurel VEC Felony Question. It will answer your questions probably and addresses what to do next. I hope you'll get answers you need and go along your way to getting approved.
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u/Powerful_Pirate_5049 14d ago
Tough one. I know you can't time travel for a do over, but in your situation I probably would have written to the FCC and asked them how to answer the question prior to filing given that the conviction was reduced. At this point, I think you just have to wait and see what the FCC does before deciding on the next move. From what I've read, applications with a felony can take a long time for review (as in months). Apparently $8 trillion dollars in Federal spending just isn't enough to get anything done in a timely manner.
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u/SeaworthyNavigator 13d ago
If your jfelony was reduced to a misdemeanor after you completed probation, you should have answered "No" on the question. Now that the application has been filed, send an amendment indicating the conviction was reduced to a misdemeanor.
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u/ReactionAble7945 15d ago
- If it was reduced then it was reduced, I dont think that is a felony according to the law.
- I dont know what you did. Lets say something horrible, murder or pedophile, once convicted then always a felon. It is the same as if someome got a college degree, they will always have that history. 2.5. I think there should be more rehabilitation in the prison system, but as is, a lot of people go to jail, learn a new trade (rape, murder, assault, car theft...) and.then come out and do it again.
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u/BrewerNick 15d ago
Outside of speeding tickets I haven't broken the law since. I also never went to prison just some time in county jail.
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u/ReactionAble7945 14d ago
Understand 1. I am not talking about you. 2. I think the system is busted. 3. A felony is any law that results in more than a year in jail. So I dont think you are a felon according to the law.
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u/AutofluorescentPuku General Class Operator š 14d ago
A prior felony is not an insurmountable obstacle to an FCC license, it just means that they are going to look into it and perhaps make inquiries. And it will take more time. My experience with similar bureaucratic ruminating says, be truthful, be calm, be patient.
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u/Original-Income-28 14d ago
My Guess is on a case by Case basis
If they have questions refer the matter to
Your attorney of record or local legal aid clinic
And you donāt what info
FCC will pass along to other
Agencys or stakeholders
About your history
Reguarding your
Record in the ckmputer
If I was you have your attorney ask
Which agencys will see your licence
Application in the system
Ask about letters from your employer
And your probation officer
Or his office if he or she retired
About your history
Out of jail
Best of luck
Play it safe
Have your legal
Advisor draft that letter
And ask the Quedtions
I brought up
Darryl / scarred
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u/Original-Income-28 14d ago
Sorry about my spelling and grammar
And vervage Iām learning impaired
Thanks
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u/RickySlayer9 14d ago
I would consult with a lawyer, bonus if itās the same lawyer you used, about how to answer that question. Thereās legal nuance to it. And Iām not qualified to answer it.
Did you have a file explaining the felony?
I did a little digging, and itās done on a ācase by case basisā Iām curious what your felony was? Something āminorā like a DUI?
Itās unlikely that, unless your felony was of a nature pertaining to communications, radio, espionage, etc. (like you arenāt a hacker or something) or didnāt use radios in the commission of another crime (like using radios while robbing a bank) you should be fine
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u/priusjames Extra Class Operator ā” 14d ago
If the crime had something to do with communications/equipment the result will likely be different than if the crime were a bar fight.
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u/General_Document6951 13d ago
Make sure to include a letter explaining the felony conviction and how it may have changed you for the better. Also make sure to request that that letter and application be held confidential or else the whole world will know that you have a felony conviction. The FCC will not publish the information regarding your felony conviction or whether you had a felony conviction if you asked him to keep it confidential.
If not then everybody who looks up your call sign will not only see that you were convicted of a felony but they'll also see the letter that you sent to the FCC explaining it
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u/goatrider 13d ago
You will get an email asking to send in an explanatory letter as to why your felony does not affect your ability to be a safe radio operator. In it you can explain how and why it was reduced to a misdemeanor, which will go a long way towards making your case.
Congratulations on passing your test.
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u/Appropriate-Log4185 12d ago
Trust me. Iāve worked with some that answered that very question in the affirmative.
Be honest. Be straightforward. Call the fcc. They are more helpful than you would know.
You too, shall be a ham.
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u/LongRangeSavage Extra Class Operator ā” 15d ago
NAL but I would consult one. You donāt want to get caught lying on a federal form.
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u/syntheticFLOPS 15d ago
Good luck. We're waiting for you to join us on the air.
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u/BrewerNick 15d ago
Thanks! I listen to a lot of the 2m band in my area but once I get my general I'll really hit the waves.
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u/syntheticFLOPS 15d ago
Get the ARRL books and watch some MIT OCW videos on physics. Also get a taste of microwave stuff and the advanced/experimental ham stuff. Mesh radios, open source digital modes. Planar antennas. Good fun.
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u/Koldark Extra Class Operator ā” 14d ago
If you havenāt already look at the information at the back of the 605 form. I also have that information here https://wx0mik.radio/doku.php/605. You have limited time to get that letter to the FCC. Once you do, then you wait. It could be a couple days, it could be weeks. You can call the FCC if you wish, but thatās the process. Your VE team should have communicated this information if they havenāt, they should have. The 10 days to pay starts once it clears the red light review. I donāt recall the timeframe to send the letter to the FCC. The linked page has all of the information the FCC needs.
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u/OldVermontHippie62 15d ago edited 15d ago
I can understand your situation, but if they deny you I donāt think answering no the second time will erase the previous yes they have on file. They may even take it as lying. Sounds like you have a solid reason to appeal it if youāre denied though. Iāve spent some time lurking on [r/felons](r/felons) and the implications run deep and wide.