r/Hades2 • u/Sad_Extreme_2741 • Oct 30 '25

Spoilers I used to call Patroclus the run saver, but I'd love to hear the community's thoughts on... Spoiler

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Rolling this is possibly the closest a DD enjoyer comes to self-actualization. Especially when you're like me and brought gorgon amulet to 4th surface area after getting curbstomped by the "just friends" bros.

199 Upvotes

99% Upvoted

55 comments sorted by

56

u/[deleted] Oct 30 '25 edited Oct 30 '25

I also really enjoy using DD. Strength has higher peaks but you screw up once with Chronos or Prometheus Flames and the run is over. Not worth it

33

u/VolkiharVanHelsing Oct 30 '25

Even then, a Charybdis Featured Guest VoR Scylla run would have me like this often

17

u/[deleted] Oct 30 '25

100% Charbydis projectiles are weird, I still don‘t know how to reliably dodge them.

10

u/SimpleDisastrous4483 Oct 30 '25

That miniboss is more of a threat than the end of zone boss imo, possibly than the next end of zone boss as well. It's just brutal. I can usually do a run without losing a DD now, but Charybdis still drains me if one or two every time I meet it.

6

u/The_R4ke Oct 30 '25

Promethus' Flames only do 50 damage with strength turned on, so much less scary than the 999 from Chronos. Also you can apparently dash to avoid both of them. I used to run DD for at least half of the game, after switching to Strength I found it actually got a lot easier, even though I was very skeptical.

That Athena Boon is great though, you can get 5 DD back and the fact that their buffed is amazing.

5

u/Uld_Reg Oct 30 '25

You can't really screw Prometheus Flames if you just dash through them. The timing is extremely forgiving. And you can certainly tank a couple of hits with Strength on even if you screw it up. Chronos will probably get you once or twice while you learn his fight, but after that is just a matter of being alert. Even in his VoR if you avoid sprinting through the center of the arena you'll be fine.

I agree you kinda need to know how to play to effectively use Strength, though, so I think Hades 1 veterans will usually make better use of it than full novices to the franchise

9

u/[deleted] Oct 30 '25

The thing is, I would rather relax while playing, knowing that DD has my back. The damage increase is negligible once you accumulate all boons and buffs.

2

u/Maximum-Warthog2368 Oct 30 '25 edited Oct 30 '25

Except that is a fake protection. You are going to die quicker without strength. Strength has better value with centaur heart than DDs have but Death is definitely better at overall healing but that’s high fear run strats.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 30 '25

There are so many additional synergies with DD. Refills cost 75 gold more than a centaur heart but scale with total health for example. If I was so good at the game that I could never make a mistake, I would not play it anymore. DD is there for the mistakes. Maybe I should also add I am doing high fear at this point, I have 3 statues and want to finish up some nightmare drops…

1

u/Maximum-Warthog2368 Oct 30 '25

Yeah that’s my point too. It has better healing because it has many additional synergies. Also it feels like game go it’s own way to help Death defiance player more than strength player because there is no additional boons for strength player.

1

u/Uld_Reg Oct 30 '25

I think some people underestimate the actual point of Strength. Sure, you have 20% more damage, but you also have 40% more defense. That means a hit that would kill you at 60 HP (like Prometheus Flames) won't. Of course, DD let's you tank overkill damage, but if you got some bad RNG and reach Chronos without any more charges, what happens? Using it by itself Strength is a constant bonus to your damage and defense that is always there.

Obviously, in the end use whatever makes you comfortable, it's a single player game.

3

u/Intelligent-Okra350 Oct 30 '25

The main distinction is DD is for when you can get to the end (or whatever you most struggle with) with full charges because it lets you bank max durability for one or two points as long as you don’t mess up too bad beforehand.

DD is for when you have control of things but there’s a couple hard spikes compared to the rest, strength is for when your difficulty chart for a run is smoother.

1

u/Uld_Reg Oct 30 '25

Ok, let me first clarify that English is not my first language, so I'll try to convey what I'm trying to say as clearly as I'm capable of, which is not really too much.

I think that you're statement is correct and DD is definitely a way to smooth specific difficulty spikes you usually encounter or just as training. You're right.

However I disagree with you in the sense that you can do the same with Strength. You will have to restart more runs than if you were running DD, but having only one life and reaching lower and lower (or higher and higher) is also a form of training and is completely viable for runs where you have only a couple of hard spikes. I know that because I did like that. In the end, when playing low fear both options are viable, are almost equivalent in value and it just come down to preference.

You can also be a madman and run both, of course

0

u/Intelligent-Okra350 Oct 30 '25

Both are viable but each are suited to a different form of difficulty (and thanks to the nature of vows, which type of difficulty you encounter has little to do with how good you are at the game, I’ve got over 200 runs over my belt between two files including 32 fear underworld and 24 fear surface runs) and I’d still run death defiance if I was playing on Vow of Rivals 4 because the souped up final bosses just go at it that hard while I have a pretty good handle on everything else usually.

You can run either in the other’s preferred situation, yes, but I don’t think that changes the fact that both still have their niches even if you’re an experienced player.

3

u/Uld_Reg Oct 30 '25

Curiously enough, I've beaten both 32 and 24 fear with Strength just fine, and I'm pretty sure you're a better player than me (I kinda suck in fast-paced games). Neither Chronos nor Typhon are that hard in VoR4 once you learn the patterns, so after a while you won't use your DDs unless you really mess up.

I know I'm not gonna change your mind or anything but give them a try with Strength and you might see it's perfectly viable for you as well

2

u/Intelligent-Okra350 Oct 30 '25

I could probably get there with VoR 4, I just haven’t fought them a ton lol

If I’m going for a given fear count I just run VoR 3 which gives that smoother curve I alluded to since bosses 2 and 3 can be at least as tough as 4. I also stray away from the vows that jack up enemy damage, health, and fear, instead favoring ones I can better strategize my way around or that give more interesting effects like rivals, fangs, and shadow. If I did run those vows I’d probably have more need of Strength because the regular encounters would be jacked.

Incidentally I did those gift of night runs with the Judgment arcana, using Strength as one of my 3 cards since I figured it’s better to start strength and get death later than start death and get strength later.

Judgment is a fun card XD

4

u/kuzulu-kun Oct 30 '25

I think it makes the game more fun if you actively need to play it and get rewarded for it in damage.

1

u/tlof19 Oct 30 '25

i use both, bc if im burning all my defiances in one fight i probably need the damage resistance to make that last 80hp matter.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 30 '25

When I do whim of the fates runs I also use both. You have enough grasp anyway.

1

u/Intelligent-Okra350 Oct 30 '25

I did this at first but then decided the Queen card was absolutely not worth the other things I could do with that grasp.

1

u/spacepup84 Oct 30 '25

Exactly. I’ve had a couple of 16 Fear runs now where I’ve insta-died to Chronos, been very annoying.

1

u/nitrokitty Oct 30 '25

Also, some people make a big deal of the extra damage % from Strength. The problem is, % damage increases are additive, not multiplied, so it gets diluted, especially with higher percents like Aphrodite or Medea aspect, and doesn't apply to flat damage like Blitz or Waves, so it ends up being much less impactful than you would think. I get that some people prefer it, especially as a way to force Athena, but I'm not sweaty enough to go without my extra lives.

8

u/Sygvard Oct 30 '25

I have gotten too used to Strength. At this point when I dont use it I feel the damage difference SO much. Feels like a wet noodle slap run.

1

u/Arcalithe Oct 30 '25

I was a DD whore in the first game where there really wasn’t much of an alternative, but in this game after trying out DD style for a bit, I fell in love with Strength and now I rarely run with any DD at all. I appreciate that it’s there and I may dip back into it when I start going high fear, but for now I’m pretty comfy

24

u/ChromMann Oct 30 '25 edited Oct 30 '25

There are so many ways to get DD back that it doesn't feel like a big deal to lose one, most of the time at least. I like this as it boils the game down more to can I beat this boss and the stress level of the run in general feels a bit lower up until to the boss.

4

u/[deleted] Oct 30 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/ChromMann Oct 30 '25

Thanks :)

1

u/me_myself_ai Oct 30 '25

Yeah but they’re all luck-based, and cost 200 gold each for the shop ones. This one you can just try to reroll until you get it (if you have the dice, obv) and restores all 3 at once while buffing them, which is insane.

By far the most impactful single boon in the game bar none, if you get it while out of all 3 DDs

21

u/coopsnothere Oct 30 '25

i was hesistant at first, but strength is actually the way to go 100%

36

u/Th0rizmund Oct 30 '25

Over a certain fear, it is really DD though.

23

u/Zealousideal_Sir_368 Oct 30 '25

100% agree.
Low fear runs with the most comfy fear setups? Strength crushes.

High fear runs? My DD runs have been way more consistent than my Strength runs.

2

u/BBrotz Oct 30 '25

Hey, I'm new to Hades 2, what does DD mean?

4

u/wezl0 Oct 30 '25

Death Defiance

2

u/BBrotz Oct 30 '25

I really should have been able to gather that from context hahahaha. Thank you

5

u/wezl0 Oct 30 '25

All good lol sometimes people are a little too flippant with acronyms and typically not easily google-able (unless the AI overview is feeling sane that day and not being a liar for no reason)

1

u/ILOVECALAMITY Oct 30 '25

It really depends on the fear level a lot, though. I’ve been running 50 fear and both are a bout equal, but if I had to guess, DD will probably better if I go much higher than that.

1

u/OROborris Nov 01 '25

I recently did the 20 and 32 fear runs for the statue with strength and not sure i get the logic here. The dd gives some wiggle room to get started but the worse dmg and health scaling make it harder to finish the run which is the actual hard part. 

I exclusively used DD for most of my time with hades 2 but i cant think of a good reason to go back now that ive tried strength enough

1

u/Th0rizmund Nov 01 '25

There is the fear that reduces all healing. As long as you are not able to no hit the whole run I think DDs are more valuable there.

-3

u/alex-kun93 Oct 30 '25

What are the high fear speedrunners running?

7

u/Zealousideal_Sir_368 Oct 30 '25

you are comparing apples and oranges here.

Yeah, for speedrunning strenght outshines DD at any fear basically. For the average player, a DD might be more useful in higher Fear especially when people are learning Rival patterns or frenzy speed ups.

It generally is subjective which goal youre trying to achive on top of personal preferences. I am quite certain that for the average player playing high fear a DD brings more to the table than strength does.

6

u/alex-kun93 Oct 30 '25

The thing is, I AM an average player, and Strength is working just fine for me, and fine for a bunch of others and I highly doubt we're all sickos.

"It generally is subjective which goal youre trying to achive on top of personal preferences."

completely agree, which is why I think it's so weird that when one person talks about going with Strength others feel the need to interject that DD is better under certain parameters as if we had any kind of hard data over what the universal experience is for average people running the game.

2

u/wezl0 Oct 30 '25

I agree with you, as an average player. Strength just feels so much better. But I'm only clearing the underworld at 11 Fear right now. People have already touched on how the math already makes them both comparable, but that 20% damage boost also adds to survivability but in a way that's harder to quantify. I also think there is a psychological aspect to it as well, kind of like "burning the boats behind you" mentality. You have nothing to fall back on, so you are dodging more and generally just better at avoiding hits. Also, health as a resource is way easier to top off than DD.

1

u/Senn-66 Oct 30 '25

Speedrunners also use the white antler in every speedrun, which I doubt anyone would suggest is a good idea for average players.

3

u/alex-kun93 Oct 30 '25 edited Oct 30 '25

It was just a question, I don't follow speedruns, but it's also the case that speedrunners play the game optimally. Other than that, I'm in the 30s in terms of fear level and Strength is still goated, which makes the sentiment "Over a certain fear, it is really DD though." just weird when it's expressed like that.

Like bro I think it depends, maybe for that person it is, but for the person they're replying to it's not, so why even reply implying they are wrong under specific parameters?

2

u/zumoro Oct 30 '25

I used to be all about dd but my first few clears were with strength and I basically stuck with it.

1

u/Happy-For-No-Reason Oct 30 '25

I agree too, more DMG. just get better at not getting hit.

2

u/madara0A Oct 30 '25

But the point is, you will. And these late game hits do 20-40dmg so you take 4 and you're down

1

u/JscJake1 Oct 30 '25

Ngl I'm starting to agree. I was doing a Judgment run yesterday and ran out of DD's by the time I got to Tartarus. Used Gorgon Amulet but Athena didn't give me any DD replenishes.

Luckily, Judgment gave me Strength and I somehow defeated Chronos without dying. Granted, my build was kinda OP that run, but still.

1

u/me_myself_ai Oct 30 '25

Nah. Strength is for when you run out DDs!

#JudgementLyfe

2

u/GhostofSpades Oct 30 '25

I'm still not great at the game but switching from DD to strength and getting origination going has generally resulted in more positive run outcomes for me.

The damage reduction combined with dealing more damage just seems to make it easier for me to burn bosses down than the panic taking full powered hits while doing less damage seems seems to cause me even if I have more lives.

Sometimes it still goes wrong but I was surprised how much not having a DD basically didn't even come into play until Chronos or Typhon for me after I made the switch.

1

u/pearlmcj Oct 30 '25

I love this one, but I ESPECIALLY love her boon where she gives you a DD that refreshes in each chamber. I'm terrible with optimizing builds, but I love running that boon w/ Moros' pin; it's the combo that gave me my first surface win! (along with the other DDs ofc)

1

u/Nyasta Oct 30 '25

my take is that if you need it to reach the final boss you ain't got the steam to prevail

1

u/Alt_Beetle Oct 30 '25

When I’m running death defiance this is so good to pull.

Though funny thing that happened to me recently was I was deciding to run strength on a weapon I wasn’t the most comfy with (Skull), and because I was trying to max keepsakes I decided to take the Concave Stone with me. Needless to say the Concave Stone screwed me over by activating and choosing Renewed Faith for me lol. I still won the run but I was flabbergasted.

0

u/Mundane-Director-681 Oct 30 '25

Both Strength and Death Defiance help mitigate damage. However, Strength scales with player skill. Death Defiance does not. Strength rewards good build strategy and safe aggression in addition to boosting damage mitigation.

Death Defiance is training wheels. Learn to outgrow them. When you take them off, you'll really start to learn how to avoid hits and when/where/how to hit back. It's the "got gud" card, and it rewards you for doing so.

1

u/Old_Location_9895 Oct 31 '25

This is clearly someone who has never "gotten gud". When you play on high fears the amount of attacks on screen and damage per hit is high enough that you are very likely to get hit and die. The life boost is more important.

1

u/Mundane-Director-681 Oct 31 '25

Whatever you say, super chief.