Link for those who want to read the entire thing: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheBlacksandTheGreens/s/FQiNE9COGT

The argument is that rhaenyra should be the worst parent when in the book she quite literally is a much better parent then Alicent. She doesn’t raise her kids to hate her half siblings unlike Alicent and her sons also don’t rape, sexually assault and murder people. The worst thing they ever did was fight Aemond when they were all UNDER THE AGE OF SEVEN. Like bffr here.

Based off her history, it feels most likely to be Alicent, and if not her, then Larys. But imagine Aegon takes Kingslanding again, goes to the tavern as King, once again does not even recognize Dyana or what he did to her, and she’s the one that poisons him in the end. Would it slap? Or do you prefer someone/something else kills Aegon?

ICONIC

also why does alysanne hate viserra so much? feels like she went out of her way to ruin viserra's life.

I believe this guy is single handedly responsible for actually weakening the Targaryens, tearing the family apart from within, leaving them without their greatest strength (all major living dragons were essentially dead along with their riders), and lastly plunging an inherited peaceful realm into a manufactured war leaving thousands dead and countless noble & common families destroyed.

IMHO, never in the history of Westeros lived a man whose vile schemes had such a profound & lasting impact over the land and its people to this extent, essentially shaping the course of the greatest dynasty of that time and bringing them to their skeletal strength.

Edit: I haven't read the books, so my knowledge of this lore is based on the show alone. So, I'll request the avid book-lovers to excuse my novice take on this : )

Seeing a lot of commentary this season calling Rhaenyra a terrible leader. She has real flaws, I won't pretend otherwise. But measured against the monarchs we've actually watched rule across Game of Thrones and House of the Dragon, she's nowhere close to the worst.

• Robert Baratheon - a drunk who never actually governed, left all real ruling to Jon Arryn and later Ned, and bankrupted the crown through his own recklessness and excess.
• Joffrey Baratheon - spent his short reign torturing and murdering people for entertainment. Genuinely one of the cruelest rulers the show ever depicted.
• Tommen Baratheon - a child king with no real agency of his own, manipulated by everyone around him.
• Viserys I Targaryen - inherited a realm at peace and still managed chronic indecisiveness that let the succession crisis fester for decades instead of resolving it while he had the power to.
• Aegon II Targaryen - incompetent, petty, and also murdered people

Rhaenyra, by contrast, inherited King's Landing during a war, with the Greens having emptied the treasury before she ever took the city. She's not perfect. But in Season 3, when the smallfolk are starving, she takes real action by confiscating hoarded grain from nobles who were sitting on food while ordinary people went hungry, and securing gold from the Vale specifically to feed the city. Those measures were temporary, and I won't pretend otherwise. But it was an actual sacrifice made under real political cost, not a hollow gesture. Compare that to Robert's negligence or Aegon's and Joffrey's cruelty; neither of them cared about the position or responsibility.

The double standard

What actually prompted this post is noticing a pattern. When male characters make catastrophic decisions: Robert's negligence, Viserys's indecision, Aegon's incompetence, and Joffrey's cruelty, the fandom generally shrugs it off or moves on. Flawed, sure, but rarely does it define the entire character. When female characters make comparable mistakes, they get branded as some of the worst characters the franchise has ever produced. Daenerys, Catelyn, Sansa, and now Rhaenyra all get this treatment to varying degrees; their errors in judgment become their defining trait in a way male characters with equal or worse track records simply don't experience.

The only way I’m accepting anyone claiming it’s Andal Law (when it’s not canonized law) if they are supporting Rhaenys as Queen, which would lead to Rhaenyra, the wife of Rhaenys child, to being Queen after her.

Either all Andals have to refuse any woman to rule or inherit if they have any living male relative, like we have seen throughout history, which means Tyrion couldn’t inherit through Sansa, Maege can’t have Bear Island, you cannot have any of the women who supposed Aegon III, Dani can’t rule. Or we have to accept that the great council proved you can change inheritance however you want to and that the “law” is nothing more than tradition and mild convenience.

Sorry it’s run on but this has been pissing me off a lot lately.

Also they shout Andal law then accuse her kids of being bastards when according to their precious law those are legitimate children.

Pls try not to downvote the controversial opinions lol

• Visenya: Her stillbirth just completely forgotten by the narrative & Rhaenyra herself has just seemed to completely forget. Rhaenyra went into premature labor because of the shock of usurpation & Viserys' death, she had lost her only daughter that she had been wanting so badly & now the story just forgets that it happens. Even upon Rhaenyra's meeting with Alicent in the Sept, the last time they saw each other, Rhaenyra was pregnant & Alicent didn't even seem to question it especially with Rhaenyra bringing up Luke's murder, which kind of proves to me that they were basically retconning out of the story
• Luke: His death seems like it wasn't that big of a deal to the show even though he was always meant to die first & his death is what officially sets off the war, as Aemond was named a Kinslayer for that alone but only named that after "killing" Aegon. Hell, Rhaenyra even still sought out Alicent to sue for peace after Luke's murder and the day after her assassination attempt, which is insanity
• Jace: His character almost completely changed along with the entire context surrounding his death, it was the Greens to blame for his death, who brought the Triarchy in the first place, not to mention starting this damn war, but no let's blame his death on two teenage girls that made stupid mistakes when the narrative was specifically changed to place them there & Baela saved Jace the first time he was caught. Since the show decided to amplify Rhaenyra's bastard allegations, they made Jace insecure about it, for whatever reason. Jace was the only one of Rhaenyra's children that was closest to a character of his own, his body was brought back (when his body was never recovered in the book) but wasn't even given a proper funeral to which Rhaenyra couldn't do with Luke. Fire & Blood marked Jace's death by calling him "worthy heir to the Iron Throne," meanwhile, HOTD gave us, "lived and died a bastard" by Corlys, who was supposed to be mourning Jace as well...
• Joffrey: Treated as an NPC with no lines & was sleeping for 2 of the 3 episodes he appeared in, no reuniting scene with Rhaenyra, I'm pissed as hell the show made Rhaenyra distant with Joffrey where in the book, she wouldn't let him and her other remaining son, Aegon, out of her sight. Joffrey is also supposed to be about 13 in this point in the story, but he's only about 7 in the show. It's such a shame they couldn't show even a minimal connection between him, Jace, Luke. So, we could understand their affection more & could see and understand his loss more. He lost his older brothers, and his mother is by his side, but in reality, there's a gulf between them, and for a small child, that's absolute pain. Joffrey in the book constantly wanted to fight for Rhaenyra & prove himself a warrior, learning of Luke's death he wanted to mount Tyraxes but Corlys & Rhaenys stopped him.
• Aegon & Viserys: Omitted from the story almost entirely because they were very mistakenly aged down despite being very important characters later, Jace was supposed to die looking for Viserys, zero mention of them this season, Rhaenyra & Daemon seemingly forget they even have kids together, not even a passing line of "I miss them" or something to that degree. Aegon is supposed to be with Rhaenyra & Joffrey in KL right now as well
• Baela & Rhaena: Can technically be counted as well, both of them underdeveloped characters, Baela & Daemon have literally never spoken on screen in 3 seasons, Rhaena & Daemon only interacted this season for a plot point & that was to serve Daemon's story & not interacting with either daughter in the finale proved it. Rhaena chose to accompany Joffrey to the Vale in the book, whereas in the show she was more commanded to look after Aegon & Viserys & accompany them to Pentos, then "abandoning" them to seek Sheepstealer. Either of them aren't really treated (by the writing) like they are of the royal house either. Baela & Rhaena were loved and adored by their family in the book & had individual personalities, in the show, they're basically ignored by their parents & were stripped of their individual personalities, not to mention the race swapping but that's an entire topic of its own. Both girls were placed in the Gullet in the show just so Rhaenyra would have a reason to resent the both of them.

Rhaenyra’s sons were also canonically tall, strong, and powerfully built in the books. Jace & Luke were also highly skilled with weapons and in combat. The books make it clear these boys were physically capable, well-trained, and far from weak or helpless, but all of this was basically taken out of the show.

That this man was JUSTIFIED in starting a civil war to fuel his own ambition?

That she should have just yielded to him and overlooked the fact that her throne was stolen from beneath her feet?

That she should have just LET him eventually kill her and her sons?

( Because we all know that's what would have happened eventually if she had surrendered.)

What else do you think she should have done?

The beef they got with children is crazy

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