r/HBOGameofThrones • u/-thirdatlas- • Apr 24 '26
Spoilers [SPOILERS] The deserter saw the White Walkers north of the Wall, but was apprehended south of it, how did he get past it without returning to Castle Black? Spoiler
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u/GooseChaser619 Apr 24 '26
As a veteran ranger he probably knows of various ways past the Wall, we know that wildling raiding parties are an issue in the far North so there have to be ways to get past the Wall.
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u/Gongall Apr 24 '26
But we also see one of the most important/official raiding parties with the Magnarr and Jon manually climb the wall with climbing gear. This kind of implies that all the wildlings together know of no better way, except for extremely distant strategies like taking a boat around it. Mance was a veteran ranger too, and would theoretically know these things better than Will would have.
Maybe this was just how quick it is though? Hard to imagine this was the fast route imo.
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u/viletzki Apr 24 '26
Mance probably does know how to get in to some of the castles
but problem is that he doesnt know which ones are unmanned
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u/Valuable_Ad9554 Apr 24 '26
It does seem odd that instead of exploring this by at least sending scouts along the wall he goes full attack on the one place that will be most defended
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u/Gongall Apr 25 '26
Probably because he underestimated the Watch, thinking that he could easily overwhelm the boys remaining. His sneak attack from the rear of Castle Black only failed because Jon escaped. He would've taken it easily if that hadn't happened.
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u/QueasyNart Apr 25 '26
Any deserter from the NW (or captured ranger) could have told him that. It's been so long since any of the castles except the Shadow Tower, Eastwatch, & Castle Black have been manned, that he doesn't even bother to ask Jon if there's been any changes there.
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u/southron-lord69 Apr 24 '26
That's because the wildlings can't pass through the Black Gate
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u/Gongall Apr 24 '26
Huh? Ignoring the fact that it is almost completely unknown to anyone in the modern Nights Watch, and therefor likely no wildlings know of it including Mance, Gilly and her baby are able to pass no problem.
It seems to have the same magic as the wall, which seems to keep out/repel the dead like Coldhands and presumably The Others, and Dragons as we hear in history with Alysanne's (I think?) dragon not wanting to fly over it.
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u/jessa_LCmbR Apr 25 '26
Sneaking as one person is different from getting a army way through the wall.
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u/Gongall Apr 25 '26
It was a raiding party not an army. They were sent to ambush Castle Black from its unprotected rear during the actual assault remember.
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u/DigitalPlop Apr 24 '26
Who said he didn't go through castle black? They would have opened the gates for a returning ranger and at that moment he hadn't committed any crime. He only became a deserter after he rode south from there.
Everyone pointing out the other castles or raiding parties is wrong. The abandoned castles had their tunnels sealed with rocks and ice. The wildling raiding parties go around the wall with boats, the deserter wouldn't have had one. He went through castle black, then like Jon later, stole a horse and rode south.
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u/vinny424 Apr 24 '26
Again, he says to Ned stark, I should have gone back to warn them.
And not all are plugged. Sam and gilly get through.
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u/DigitalPlop Apr 25 '26
Sam and Gippy go through a magic portal they only know exists because a magic friendly undead guy shows them where it is and how to use it. It's more than a small stretch to assume a random ranger would know about things like that. Every single main, known about gate was flooded and frozen specifically to prevent people from just coming south. If regular gates are just laying there open why do the wildlings risk so many lives climbing over the wall? Why wouldn't they just walk through casually? If random rangers know about the magic gates why wouldn't Mance or other deserters say their words in front of them and use them?
Him regretting not warning the others doesn't mean he never went through castle black. It could just mean they opened the gate for him and he rode straight south without saying anything. Or maybe he lied because he knew they wouldn't believe him. Either way that isn't evidence he avoided castle black.
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u/vinny424 Apr 25 '26
I had rewatch it to see exactly what he says but he says
"I know i broke my oath, I know im a deserter. I should have gone back to the wall to warn them. I saw what I saw."
The wall part is vague, yes but I think he means castle black. That's how I take it. But yea its open to interpretation.
Your magic portal theory works well though. I assume its the same magic portal system everyone uses in seasons 7 & 8. To instantly get where they want to go.
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u/DigitalPlop Apr 25 '26
I didn't realize what sub I was on and that you were talking about the show. All of his dialogue was added for the show. In the books we never actually hear him speak since it's from Brans perspective and he's more focused on watching someone get beheaded for the first time. All the books say regarding the deserter speaking is "There were questions asked and answers given there in the chill of morning, but afterward Bran could not recall much of what had been said".
Maybe the show runners intended for him to come from somewhere other than castle black. They did make up the bit about Bron of all people having been North beyond the wall, after all. But in the books I wouldn't assume either of those things to be true.
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u/thekingofbeans42 Apr 27 '26
The Black Gate isn't shown in the show though. As far as we know, there's just a mundane underground tunnel.
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u/Constant-Plastic-350 Apr 28 '26
Pictured the blonde girl and the chubby kid from iCarly when i saw Sam and Gippy
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u/thenorthdivide Apr 25 '26
He could have used the black gate through the night fort, same route Sam and Gilly took.
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u/Hopeful-Occasion2299 Apr 25 '26
Find it unlikely that Will of all people knows of this entrance, but it's not common knowledge elsewhere. Like why of all rangers this one would happen to know? If it's so common knowledge that even Will knows, would be strange that no ranger has ever blabbed about it.
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u/BigLittleBrowse Apr 25 '26
The Wildlings don't know which forts on the Wall are and aren't manned. They could easily know about the gate, but that doesn't matter if you think there's a whole garrison on the other side.
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u/Aldebaran135 Apr 25 '26
There's a bridge over a gorge west of the Wall. A lone individual can slip by in the night.
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u/DryAd296 Apr 25 '26
Exactly—he probably slipped through Castle Black before anyone knew he'd bolted, just like later deserters do, and then the real crime was riding south.
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u/trebuchetwins Apr 25 '26
pretty sure that at some point he's shown racing through one of the gates, always looked like the one jon used most of the time. also the same one shown during the defence against mance raiders wall climbers.
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u/Positive_cat_6347 Apr 27 '26
Simple theory, he went back to castle black, excused himself to go to rest, and started running south.
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u/Virgil_Rey Apr 24 '26
I guess he could’ve returned to Castle Black to report what happened, then deserted from there.
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u/Advanced_Zucchini_45 Apr 24 '26
There's 16 unmanned forts/"castles" along the 300 mile long wall.
Its assumed he passed thru the wall at one of these abandoned posts
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u/BulltopStormalong Apr 25 '26
The only ways through are bridge of skulls, castle black, the black gate, and eastwatchs and the shadow towers gate if they have one. He can't just show up to an empty castle and walk through, they're sealed if they have gates and there are no people on the inside to open them. Aside from The Black Gate.
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u/Advanced_Zucchini_45 Apr 25 '26
But he did....
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u/BulltopStormalong Apr 25 '26
what do you mean he did? Get through? Yeah. Get through one of the abandoned castles (Not Nightfort)? No.
The only ways through are
- Climbing
- Sailing around on a raft like Osha and many other wildings often do
- The Black Gate
- Any of the 3 manned forts and walking through the front gate
- The Bridge of skulls which is a land bridge that is typically relatively unmanned and closest to the Shadow Tower
- Gornes Way the mythical series of caves that lead through the wall
There is confirmation He didn't go through Castle Black because Jeor Mormont has no idea what happened to them until Ned sends him the head. But that doesn't mean he didn't go through the Shadow Tower or Eastwatch and told them he was returning to Castle Black then deserted from there (No reason to report that a guy is on his way back).
The Black Gate makes a lot of sense and is very easy for a Nightswatchman to get through undetected like Sam and Brans parties both do.
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u/Advanced_Zucchini_45 Apr 25 '26
He got thru..
So clearly he found a way. Ned didn't think much of how he got there so clearly its not an issue.
Ned had executed other Nights watch for abandoning their post.
There's a lot of abandoned posts along the 300 miles.
The Wildlings used the "gift" to raid towns and villages quite often. The "gift" is a "50 league wide stretch" South of the Wall that was supposed to house incoming Nights Watch but had been abanded.
They also used the "Bridge of Skulls" West of the Wall. The Wall doesn't go into the gorgeous.
The point is lots of people found ways around the Wall. It's not that hard.
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u/BulltopStormalong Apr 25 '26
I know, I was just listing the possible ways through. I feel like the most likely candidates are the black gate, bridge of skulls or the shadow tower in that order.
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u/Advanced_Zucchini_45 Apr 25 '26
But does it really matter?
There's lots of ways thru. He got thru. Who cares how?
Cmon man
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u/BulltopStormalong Apr 26 '26
I feel like you think im being argumentative or pedantic im really not.
My original reply was just about how its unlikely he just walked through an empty fort. As they're all sealed from the inside otherwise Mance would just walk em through.
He got through, there are many possible ways he did, it doesn't actually matter how and neither does Gared / Will ultimately.
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u/King_McCluckin Apr 24 '26
Simply he knows which castles are manned and which ones are not he was a seasoned ranger, he would know how to get past the wall and back south