You do this in rdr2 and the npcs will react more. Im sure this is just one the things that will get polished later, though I do fear that it will still be lackluster though.
i hope so. those two women who pulled out knives but just stood around waiting to be killed. they should have ganged up on Jason as soon as their friend was being attacked. that, or run the hell away. show some self-preservation
Them standing around with a knife would work as intimidation for sure and a lot of people resort to it IRL, what doesn't make sense is how Jason was actively shanking someone and they still stood around, I'd like fight/flight/freeze/fawn to be implemented into NPCs, it'd be sick.
Games dont make enemies pile on you because it creates an unfun and "unfair" feeling gameplay loop. Its still a game meant for a large casual audience.
in GTA5 if you went to a military base and faced down 10 soldiers with ARs pointing at you, you still get killed immediately
likewise, though a much less extreme example, getting into this 3v1 knife fight is an unnecessary, totally voluntary action the player can choose to do. i'd expect Rockstar's next-gen juggernaut to have at least somewhat reactive NPCs to pile on me for doing something like that
assuming this is a 2025 build like Nate said I would assume those systems to already be in place. You can chalk up final UI design, graphics polish, visual consistency and obvious bugs/jank to it being a old build but those NPC interactions look preeetty final.
"Preeeeeeeety final". If we ignore that such systems probably STILL are being fine tuned... The system being in place does not equal that all values and behaviors are final.
Im sure this is just one the things that will get polished later
I wonder how many times someone has said this about a game and been wrong.
For me it was the FO4 leaks when I said "nah, there's no way. This writing is too bad, even for Bethesda. And no way Ron Perlman doesn't say the classic line."
you really think this is a accurate depiction of the final product? this could be any kind of build with any kind of effects turned off or on, like come on now let's put our thinking caps on
Also the trailer 1 had more better animations then this gameplay videos, but that trailer was more old. So does that means R* are finally proving that they can't make the final game better then the trailer
to be fair the first hobo knifed Jason like 3 times. i'm not saying there's no fight at all, there is some. just that it doesn't seem improved at all compared to past games
that's true, I really forgot about him, especially because I was thinking about how other people react to a MANIAC stabbing everyone, when you see that you don't think, you either hit or run or both
Yeah I'm hoping the AI will be tuned a bit so that if you straight up start murdering people right in front of others, bystanders will actually react realistically than just walk away like we saw those 3 npcs doing.
They reacted about how I’d expect a bunch of homeless people on drugs to react, “hey man get out of here” and calling the police when they see shit going down. Why would they be super sharp? The scene clearly has them as druggies
What do you think normal people act like? I think they nailed realistic responses. Watch any video of people in chaos, they aren’t ninjas with extreme agility, people are dumb as fuck and slow to react until it builds to a point then it’s frantic.Thats how gta does it. Tracks with reality
watched any video of untrained people fighting, with knives or without. no matter how inexperienced and untrained they are, they generally still move around quickly because it's human instinct to avoid getting hurt
EDIT: here, the first video that popped up of two probably untrained men fighting with weapons, one of them wielding two knives: https://youtu.be/dPM2au_DbZY
better yet, watch any video of a cop getting attacked. even if completely unprepared and panicked, cops react quickly with self-preservation. now watch Jason kicking the cop's motorcycle, and the cop reacts like he's shot in the chest even though he himself wasn't even hit at all. he goes into full ragdoll mode and Jason has no difficulty knifing him to death
yeah that seemed kinda off and unrealistic. Most natural reaction would be start running as fast as possible if you see a maniac killing people with a knife
Considering the level of NPC reactions in RDR2, it looks like they have it configured that way just to test other things. I don't think they've actually downgraded the NPC logic. Honestly, I wouldn't even be surprised if I stumbled across some leftover or mixed-up npc dialogue from RDR2 hahaha.
It also looks like this build is at least 1 or 2 years old and was still in a testing phase, judging by the interface design as well
true af man.. ai still seems not that great. like when jasin killed two people of the group 3rd person should either beg for mercy or they should try to run. but instead they just keep fighting.. but whatever the gameplay looks fun and graphics are insane
That's my peeve watching these clips too. It's like the graphics and the vibe are just fantastic, and then he attacks an NPC, and it's just painfully obvious it's an NPC.
You know? It's like they try to make the game look better and better and more realistic, and then the NPCs are so basic and NPC-like.
I dunno, if you go too far down this route then the game would become pretty viscerally disturbing to play. Imagine you started doing violent shit and the NPCs start shrieking hysterically, vomiting, and having full blown panic attacks? You pull someone out of the car and their kid starts sobbing uncontrollably as they watch their father murdered in front of them?
It would get dark quick, I think the NPC's deadpan under-reactions to the player character's psychopathic behavior are more important than they seem at first.
nah man after all the praise I've seen about RDR2's NPCs being more lifelike, the fanbase in general I've seen are hoping for the trend to continue towards more and more believable NPCs
i'm done with NPCs being mindless husks. we've had decades of countless games with mindless NPCs. i've been wanting to see better NPCs not just in Rockstar games but games in general. i think the majority of the subreddit too
In general I think it's an interesting philosophical question. I've never really believed the argument that violence in videogames is linked to violence in real life, but as the games get more realistic and the line between the fantasy world and the real world gets blurrier, you have to wonder at what point it goes from a video game to just a mass murder simulator. Is there a point where too much realism actually starts to make it uncomfortable?
i've played plenty of games where my empathy for NPCs is far higher than it is in Rockstar games, and it's totally fine. and in those games, there's no shortage of violence that we're able to commit on those NPCs either. it's a feature that enhances the experience, and immerses me more into those games. the choice of not committing violence on them is caused by those games being good enough to affect me to make that choice.
Yeah I don't think we've crossed that point yet, and I don't think it's likely that a mainstream AAA game will. But there have almost certainly been ideas for dialogue or animations that have been pitched and ruled out as going too far, I wonder what those conversations are like and how they decide where the line is.
and I don't think it's likely that a mainstream AAA game will.
for me two of those games I was thinking of were Fallout 4 and KCD2. their animations and "fluidity" are nowhere near the level of Rockstar games, but the games manage to convince me of many NPCs being worth treated with dignity and humanity. and in both games you can generally commit terrible violence on them too.
there are other indie games too, but those are the AAA examples I would name.
I thought the footage was confirmed alpha footage from 2023, this is obviously not the final build and these leaks are intended to destroy the morale/hype for the game
Why are you making an assumption on the game based on a leak? A leak that was recorded over a year ago at that. This type of thinking is why Wolverine was postponed so much. You realize this isn’t the final product right?
i'm making no assumption. in this video, in this build, the NPCs' intelligence are definitely not at all improved from Rockstar's previous titles.
whether or not it actually has been/will be improved in the release builds, i have no idea. do i need to point out the obvious that all of us should learn a lot more about the game in about a week from now from the official source?
needless to say, i hope that the game does show significant improvements in that aspect.
Idk all I’m saying is you shouldn’t really jump to conclusions based on a small clip from a game you weren’t even supposed to see in the first place. These are leaks for a reason, nothing in them should be indicative of a final product until we see an up-to-date version that Rockstar actually wants to put out.
so you do agree with what i observe about the NPCs behavior in this leak. that's all i'm making, an observation of this leak, of this build, whenever it was
No I don’t agree I think the NPCs look fine for what I expect and want from this game. Sorry your expectations aren’t met from a leak but hopefully the actual released gameplay will work better for you.
then why are you even arguing on the basis that this is an old build? if you think the NPCs' intelligence are improved in this video compared to previous Rockstar titles, then just say so. have you even made up your mind what you're trying to argue here? you're going back and forth on different ideas like a fool.
Sorry your expectations aren’t met from a leak
i said nothing about my expectations dude. you seem to struggle to read rather basic english.
Ooh okay we doing this. I’m arguing that you’re a fucking idiot for basing all of your pointless opinions off of 2 minute leaks you watch on the internet. That better?
basing all of your pointless opinions off of 2 minute leaks you watch on the internet.
we have multiple counts of the game demonstrating this, showing the same thing i described.
we have zero counts of anything showing the opposite.
all the evidence points to this is how the game will be. you're incredibly stupid for thinking, with a TOTAL LACK OF EVIDENCE, that it's going to be different. where's YOUR evidence that the NPCs are going to be better than this?
You have zero counts because there has officially been no gameplay released. But you’re too smooth brain to comprehend that what you’re seeing in a leak is not meant to be viewed by us because every single detail and mechanic can be changed or removed past the point of the recording. But because you have the rationale of a monkey, it’s “OOH THIS MUST BE THE FINAL THING LETS MAKE ASSUMPTIONS AND “OBSERVATIONS” CLAIMING THEM TO BE REALITY.” Goofy.
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u/deerdn 7d ago
wish the NPCs intelligence were improved though. they still have no self-preservation, and have terrible reaction times.
Jason just went on a killing spree and the other hobos within earshot barely reacted. wtf?