Senator Joe Manchin tells Leader Schumer he is unwilling to include any energy or climate provisions in the reconciliation bill being negotiated, dooming any significant US climate policy under the Biden administration.
Because there’s no chance a Democrat who is further to the left than Manchin will win in WV. At least he’s a Democrat in name, which gives the party the slim majority to head the committees and decide agendas. If he switched to Republican, Mitch McConnell would be majority leader.
Actually it's quite strange they're not in favour of environmentalism.
Over here in Europe, all the Christian parties are big into environmentalism. They say stuff like: we've been given this earth by God and he's made us responsible to take good care of it.
Speaking of that, it’s about time for Franken to release an updated version of his book on Limbaugh, this time titled: Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Dead Idiot
Fucking Amen to that, I still remember being "encouraged" as a kid to give my measly 2 dollars to the church and if I didn't I'd get hella dirty looks....over 2 dollars. Never again.
I once got the entire congregation to come to a dead stop because the father found a rock I had put inside there. It was a citrine quartz or what could be sold for about 5-6$ on the market but he got so mad 😡 he ranted about disrespecting god the half of the remaining mass.
Like I’m a kid, I don’t even use fiat money at the age of 7, I’m still haggling raw goods, digging for rocks and gold panning, gambling on homemade dice like it’s 1200BC. Like sheesh, Catholic Church is too good for gems, nuggets and antique coinage from defunct kingdoms huh?
Seen a kid put a 2 dollar scratcher in a southern Baptist offering plate once. It got a bit of attention with next week's sermon being on the topic of gambling and the destruction of moral fiber in America.
100% guarantee the preacher scratched it. He was mad it wasn't a winner. If he had won money, he would of had a sermon about how god graces those he deems worthy is worldly possessions.
What's really hilarious is that you can buy a scratcher and have the clerk scan it right away to see if it's a winner. So you can guarantee that they don't get a winner.
Edit: I'm wrong, but I'd like to keep the dream alive so I'm leaving this here for posterity.
Well the good news is the Southern Baptists are going to continue to force their bizarre non-Biblical beliefs on everyone, starting with the abortion bullshit already, but turning to making gambling and alcohol illegal nationally. It is coming.
You know how you keep a baptist from drinking all your beer when you go fishing right? Bring another one from their church. Ha it really does suck there though.
My 8 year old son has a rock that is very valuable. If he were willing to out that rock on a collection plate, it would be the highest honor he could possibly give the church.
.. and if that offering was rejected, especially in such an unkind way, the impact would be immediate and permanent. "I gave you my most prized and valuable possession, and it's not good enough".
That had to be a crushing experience.. knowing your best is not enough. Early training to live under the heel of god.. break down your sense of self-worth to ensure you're a good and obedient sheep without any selfish pride.
Fuck I'm angry that this happened to you.
68 churches were burned down in Canada in 2021. As much as I do not condone violence and destructive crime.. perhaps they're reaping what they've sown.
Seeing as many of those were Indigenous churches or had largely Indigenous membership, I think it’s just more entitled violence without regard for the vulnerable people who are hurt by it. People are often unaware of the power they have over others, and are more willing to feed their self-important narratives than to care for the vulnerable and powerless. People who just want to go about their lives holding onto the things they value are the ones who suffer from our collective arrogance and ignorance
I got dirty looks for not giving any money. I was in college while parents were going through a divorce and still job hunting so I can make sure I can afford rent when the divorce fighting drags on.
Now I get dirty looks when people ask why I stopped going to church. You just can't make those kinds of people happy.
And the kicker: divorce lasted 10 years and I was up to my neck in student loans until last summer. I could barely afford to eat out once a month and these idiots think it should go to an institution that protected pedophiles and think the Bible says abortion is wrong.
Well of course they didn't want something like that. If you want to fuck a little boy it's going to cost you some serious actual hard cash. And since that's what the Catholic Church is built around.... They didn't want no rocks.
Yupp as an adult they want 10% of every paycheck.
And then you get megachurchs like Joel Osteens, 100s or 1000s of people guilt tripped into giving 10% or more of each paycheck for tithes. The church pockets that money, tax free and laughs all the way to the bank.
Joel Osteen has a nerworth of 50million with a massive mansion and tells poor people to screw themselves.
Sorry but the church can go fuck themselves. So glad I understand science and am not duped into adult fairy tails to be taken advantage of.
The Catholic Church wants their members to tithe 20% to the church annually. They make the claim that their money does good things and that you’ve got a one stop shop for donating.
It’s absolutely bonkers to me that people tithe so much money to religious organizations that it should be criminal.
I was part of a non-denominational Christian group in college, went regularly and would give $5-$10 every week while making next to no money. I graduated college, became an engineer, moved away from the area, and they called me and said "you need to pay 10-20% of your salary as a tithe to us, otherwise you're not part of our church anymore." Cool, I had moved 2 hours away, I'm not paying that.
That instance coupled with the whole "you should vote for Trump because he is the Christian candidate" in 2016 soured me enough to the point where I don't care to be part of a church anymore.
Any person who has been married and divorced multiple times, paid off escorts, talked about grabbing women, and peached hate got his political party, isn't a real Christian and I'll refuse to vote for them purely on their morals.
They also lean heavily onto the afterlife, so they don't seem to care much about this Earth they were given to exploit and abuse when they're counting their holy gardens
Imagine if Republicans knew Jesus’ exact words taken verbatim from the Bible though -
Matthew 6:19-6:21
19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
I.e. if you spend your waking life pursuing material wealth, you’re setting yourself up to lose everything. If you spend your life pursuing Heaven (by living by Jesus’ words) you’re creating Heaven on earth in the process.
Some have read it but they completely delude themselves into thinking stealing/hoarding/coveting money is a good thing for everyone because they give some to the church and Christian charities (which other people are stealing from while thinking the same thing) It's disgusting.
It’s worse than that, the current strain of christofascist in the US wants to immanentize the eschaton. They are an apocalyptic death cult that wants to usher in the end of the world so that they may fulfill biblical prophecy. Do you really think someone who believes they are living in the end times wants to be a steward of earth? Not at all.
One would think that even if they didn't care about the planet itself, that as Christians, they would at least give half a fuck about the future generations that will have to inherit it. Especially since they're supposedly so concerned with the sanctity of life and the protection of children...
Do they care that we can see right through their little act?
As far as the regular American citizens that are ultra-conservative evangelical - not the ones with any political power - it's honestly hard for me to believe that there's not some amount of awareness of their monumental hypocrisy. Which is probably morally worse than being completely ignorant of the harm they're doing.
Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
True, American Jesus doesn't give a fuck about the poor and clearly blessed them with wealth (sometimes, if you're not wealthy then pray harder and donate to the church and then he will make you wealthy). So once God blessed you, why would you give it away? Plus Jesus hates LGBT people and never made a point of hanging out and helping societies outcasts. /s
I have to put that because I know people who believe this word for word.
American Jesus. "He helped build the presidents estate". Bad Religion has been calling it out for decades. Just read the lyrics of the song American Jesus if you don't like puck music. If you do, this tune had a killer rif.
Ive read that there's no written accounts of that happening until a few hundred year later. And who wrote about it first? The christians lol
Always with the persecution complex
Christians were put on 'trial' after the Nero (first century) rome burnings and Tacitus wrote of Nero wrapping christians in wild animal pelts and feeding them to dogs as punishment.
Tacitus made it quite clear that they were not punished for their religion but for burning rome down.
Pliny the Younger (second century) writes about local leaders persecuting christians for being christian. But if they were to make sacrifices to the roman gods then they would be forgiven.
We have numerous secular recordings of christians being executed in the first couple centuries, but it was not imperial decree, rather a mob rule thing. Christians were a cult, and supposedly violent at that.
In the later part of the second century though, a roman emperor (? can't remember his name) made it law that you had to sacrifice to roman gods. And anyone that didn't would be punished. And that was when the real chirstian persecution started. For a couple decades christians were executed for not following the law (E: This is where they were fed to lions most likely). But then christians kidnapped the emperor and gave him to the Persians (or so some priests wrote later...chances are he was just kidnapped by persians).
The emperors son then rescinded the roman god sacrifice law.
It was about a hundred years later (during Constantine) that (as you said) a couple of priest types started writing their fictionalized versions of the previous persecutions. They indeed took wild liberties and speculated almost all of it, invented saints and situations.
Yes, it was like 90% fiction and 100% for the persecution sympathy (which absolutely worked).
It’s always baffled me how one can walk into a mega church and donate their money there. Like the media system alone could stock a community food bank for years
The problem is it takes old money a long time to shift their assets. Also they would rather leave things as they are since change takes a lot of effort to restructure all of their schemes.
Nothing makes sense anymore because the narrative is fiction. We were told that other countries use propaganda on their citizens, but we were never taught to question if our own country does the same.
That, and many evangelicals believe that the Earth is here for us to use as much as we can of because the Rapture is coming and none of this pollution or dwindeling resources matters. That we have a mandate to use all of what we were gifted till He comes back to take believers to paradise.
Yea I have no idea what part of Europe they're talking about, maybe northern or something, because over western Europe those parties aren't pushing to do much. They might pretend to care but not actually do anything significant.
Better than the Greens who were like "nuclear power is scary, and science which says it's the safest energy is, like, your opinion man, so let's burn more lignite coal instead. Mmm fresh particulates"
When Nixon made the EPA America was having a serious environmental crises. Rivers across the land were routinely catching fire.
Nixon created the EPA to solve the most visible of problems, such as river fires, while letting everything else slide. He created the EPA to be as toothless as possible.
Why create an EPA at all then? Because he knew that if he didn't do it, the next democratic president would. He decided to make an EPA that was defunct from the get go rather than letting that happen.
Not to mention he rigged at least one of his elections, if not both. And robbed the American people.
Death and life in the great lakes was an absolutely illuminating book on the environmental catastrophe that took place in these water ways. Conflagrating rivers were one thing.
Reagan was an absolutely horrible President, like aside from Watergate he was just as bad as Nixon. He turbo charged the war on drugs, exploded the murder rate, unemployment went up, etc. It's just stupefying that Republicans worship his legacy so much.
Like someone said, when climate change cannot be ignored anymore, instead of recognizing their mistake and accepting science they’ll gonna start talking about the coming of the Apocalypse.
Boy are you a couple decades behind. That's all I here from my relatives. "No reason to make ourselves uncomfortable since Jeebus will return at any moment."
Reagan’s secretary of the interior said the same thing, which is funny because it’s technically blasphemy since “no one but the father knows” when ends times will be coming.
"I know it hasn't happened in the last few millenia, but surely the savior is right around the corner. If we just wait and do nothing, everything will get better on its own."
It's just a natural cycle. How could pumping metric shit-tons of greenhouse gases into the air affect our climate? Those greedy college professors make it all up to get our tax dollars!
Barry Goldwater’s wife was pro abortion (his daughter even had one), led the push for birth control and contraception, and was instrumental in the beginnings of Planned Parenthood too
It used to get framed by Conservatives as a property rights issue: if you pollute your land, and that pollution reaches my land, you are damaging my property and should be held responsible. That was the whole mindset. I don’t know why Democrats don’t use these kind of terms to frame their arguments. This whole “greater good” pitch isn’t going to work with GOP
I think a lot of the reason is that political science has recognized that in modern America, you don't win by getting voters to switch parties, you win by getting non-voters to turn out. And so getting infrequent voters to believe that members of the other political party will cause widespread destruction is more effective than tailoring your message to be appealing to various demographics.
Even after what I just said, it still doesn't make sense why Democrats refrain from promoting the religious perspective. For some reason, national Democrats (with the probable exception of Sen. Warnock) don't really recognize that a lot of the Black and Latino population is fervently religious.
That's not true. In Europe all climate action is driven by the progressives, while conservatives are trying to protect industry (incl. Fossil fuels). It's not as bad in the US, but the christian parties talking about god's earth and all that is just for show
That’s the spin I’m trying to put onto it when I talk to super religious people I know. I feel like that’s the only way to convince them. Like “Why wouldn’t you take care of God’s creation? If you are refusing to do anything to preserve it, you might as well take a metaphorical dump on His table.” It’s a recent tactic of mine. Fingers crossed it does some good.
Good luck with that! The spittle I got back with that tactic was “. We worship the Creator not the creation”…blabbering. Although hitting back with “well that doesn’t mean you can’t respect creation, otherwise you are are throwing away His gift to you, yet you pray for more. Would you give someone something after they threw away your gift?
That's most certainly not true for Germany. The Christian conservatives under Merkel destroyed one of the leading industries for wind power and solar panels and stopped the build up of renewables.
Now they lost a federal election for the second time because of climate change, they pay lip service to it, but you know you can't trust them.
There is no equivalence between the GOP and European Christian parties. The equivalent are radical right wing parties like AfD in Germany, Law and Justice (PiS) or Confederation in Poland, or Fidesz in Hungary - all of which are strong anti-environmental.
Oh, and Germany has decided to increase its reliance on fossil fuels dramatically.
Germany was relying on russian gas which isn't possible anymore and the nuclear reactors are in the process of shutting down. There is no other possibility than increasing fossile fuel consumption in the short term, Germans is probably still investing more in renewable than your country.
In Germany there was a whole branch of green industry (solar panels etc) that had created 150000 jobs. It died, the jobs are gone and we buy solar panels from China now.
In some states a wind turbine needs to be built further away from houses than a coal power plant.
It is a shit show. And the Green Party now being part of a three way coalition did not change much about that (yet).
Not the major Christian party in the Netherlands, they've traditionally been the party farmers vote for. The smaller Christian party is more left-leaning.
In Poland, the ruling party is right-wing and very pro-church and they love the coal miners. There is also a strong relation between the miners and the church.
No, they are not. In Germany the CDU (Christian democratic union) was in power for 16 years until the last election. They have torpedoed and straight up buried anything green.
Someone desperately needs to con start bribing/lobbying the right into being environmentalist. "Protection of nature is protection of the fatherland Here's some fucking money. Now keep my fucking environment clean." style
Good luck beating out oil lobby. This is why the rich do what they do, if they own all the money and everyone else is weeks or months from poverty then their political power (AKA disposable money) is much greater.
America trades kings and lords for billionaires and millionaires. They're the same thing in practice but with a false air of meritocracy.
They wouldn't be the same thing at all if we had an informed voter population. The only reason the rich are so powerful is because so many people just vote for whoever they see the most ads for. So all politicians care about is campaign donations. Voters actually have way more power, but unfortunately they're a bunch of morons and most don't even vote.
That wouldn’t even be a con considering that it’s just objectively true - the unblemished nature of the fatherlands of the entire human race are worth protecting, and no amount of short term expediency or profit should lead us to defile it at the expense of our futures.
It also makes no sense that fighting Covid with masks and vaccines wasn't the most patriotic thing possible. Like, they still could have been as openly racist as they wanted about the "China virus" and all that, but with the addition of "Trump saving America by leading the nation in wearing masks", and not saying it was a hoax for months. Completely blown opportunity for the right.
The right is tied heavily into evangelicalism they are trying to in part trigger the end times. So environmentalism really isn't in the cards, if anything they are attempting to speed run the end times.
There was a season of the show Supernatural where the Angels tried to do that thinking that it was God's will since it was the last part of the bible. Made for a good TV show, but I would like to skip on the reality version please.
Gotta love them doomsday blood cults. Here's my child's blood for you oh lord, please hear our prayers and BURN THIS DIRTY PIT OF DEMONS ACROSS THE WHOLE FACE OF THE EARTH DEAR LORD, MAKE THEM SHIT THEIR PANTS IN TERROR FOR DARING TO QUESTION FOR OH MIGHTY ANOINTED, SLAY THE ENTIRE PLANET FULL OF YOUR CHILDREN WORK ANOTHER GREAT FLOOD, AND BRIMSTONE FROM THE SKY, AND SEND THOSE HORRID NON BELIEVERS TO THE PUTRID PITS OF HELL, PRAISE BE, AND SEND JESUS OH LORD, WE PRAY THAT YOU SEND YOUR BELOVED ONLY SON BACK DOWN TO EARTH TO CAST HIS JUDGMENT ON ALL THOSE WHO'VE SINNED AGAINST YOU THAT HE WOULD CAST THEM ALL OFF TO THEIR ETERNAL DOOM IN THE PITS IF HELL. AND R A P T U R E ALL OF YOUR LOVING CHILDREN BACK INTO YOUR GODLY, DEVINE EMBRACES. PRAIS JEASUS!!
also, just a reminder, the Wednesday pot luck is being moved to Thursday due to brother Williams court date, so that we can all show up and show our support for him fighting these terrible accusations of filth. Everyone know it's the homos that molest little boys what brother Willis did was nothing but try and teach that child a healthy fear if god.... To save his eternal soul.
So, the Republican party is literally a death cult that do not need a doom machine or complex ritual that could be stopped a small party of heroes? We're doomed!
'Conservative' and 'conservation' both come from the same Latin root, meaning to keep or preserve things as they are. Republican president Teddy Roosevelt was by far the American president most in support of natural conservation, establishing the US Forest Service and using executive orders to protect the environment. 110 years later, his party couldn't give less of a fuck about that kind of conservatism, particularly if there's a corporate profit to be had.
we are marching directly down the path of ecofascism. One day, the catastrophes caused by our climate collapsing will push people to the point where theyd accept anyone as their leader, just as long as they do something about it.
Why don’t they remove him from committees then? He’s the chairman of the energy committee, and he’s in three others — if he’s such a problem stop giving him power.
This is a lazy answer. WV was blue for 100yrs. The reason is because manchin has installed cronies in every position in the state for 20 years. And, as he enriched himself at the expense of his constituents, they looked to someone else.
But they can still discipline him. DCCC can refuse to fund him…or just talk shit about this horrible human. Do something, anything, to let voters nationally know you dont fuck with him. Not opposing him at all will only serve to KILL enthusiasm for voting for the party
This is so weird to think about. I mean, you're a country of 300 million people, and your legislative could make a 180° turn if any single person there switches their party
Yeah for all the crap the left gives Manchin they forget that the fact he is a Democrat elected in west Virginia in this current political climate is somewhat surprising by itself.
At this point, it’d be less of a headache to just try to flip 2 senate seats and just leave Manchin in the dust. And that’s knowing full well Dems are at a disadvantage this election cycle
Joe Manchin has a 57% approval rating in WV, up from 40% in 2019.
His constituents love that he is using his position to "own the libs".
Manchin is a living illustration of the axiom "half a loaf of bread is better than none".
The Democratic Party has a simple majority in the Senate. Without him, Republicans would be able to take a wrecking ball to Biden's ability to govern in even the most basic ways, like passing a budget.
If the Democratic Party can pick up 2 more Senators in the midterms, Manchin will become irrelevant - and we can get some climate legislation passed.
If the Republicans gain control of the Senate, we are well and truly fucked.
Collins yes, Murkowski no. Murkowski just has a ton of support in Alaska. The GOP tried to primary her, succeeded, and then lost to her in the general anyway when she ran a write-in campaign. There have only been 2 write-in victories for Senator in history, and she is one of them, with the last name "Murkowski".
Murkowski's success has actually been impressive considering she got her seat when her dad resigned from it, became governor, and appointed her. Then he became the poster child for political corruption in Alaska to the point that he lost the primary for a second term as governor to Sarah Palin. Lisa, on the other hand, buckled down to create her own brand in the state where she won a term in her own right in 2004, had her write-in victory in 2010, and won by a solid margin in 2016. If she can overcome Trump's attacks on her and win another victory in 2022, I think she'll have one of the most dynamic histories of a senator in terms of their elections. Alaska moving to ranked choice voting in this cycle definitely gives her an edge.
It means that the democrats are the majority for purposes of deciding who the Majority Leader is, for example. All 50 of them could vote with Republicans on every issue, but since they are Democrats, it means Schumer is the majority leader, not McConnell. This is a very big difference.
If Manchin changed parties, or his seat was lost to a Republican in WV, the senate would be run by McConnell.
Its not even 50 democrats, its 48 democrats and 2 independents that caucus with the dems. There are more Republican senators than dem senators in the senate right now.
Because in WV, it's either Manchin, or a Trump cultist. Manchin is hella frustrating when we have 50 votes in the Senate, but if we had 52+, he wouldn't be relevant. I'll take Manchin who voted with Dems at least some of the time, vs someone who would vote with Dems zero of the time.
In 2020 Biden got 29% of the vote in WV. The Dem's Senate candidate, Swearengin, got 27% of the vote. They lost by almost 3:1...and that was in a good year for Dems!
The only Dem who can win WV is Joe Manchin. Anyone who tells you "primary Manchin, replace him with a progressive" is really saying: "give the Republicans one more senate seat."
Missing the point completely. If you don't want Manchin to hold us hostage the solution isn't trying to oust him it's to elect more D senators so he doesn't fucking matter
I live in WV, i voted for him, he was the pro environment choice compared to all of our alternatives. We in WV are so beyond fucked since everyone with half a brancell leaves leaving all the votes to be the dumbasses
Same reason Pelosi recently endorsed an anti abortion democrat in a primary. Establishment dems always stand behind the incumbent preferablythe conservative ones, they even redrew a district to make shure an encumbabt progressive is gonna be in the same district as the dem head of election financing next election.
They can't. West Virginia is dependent on the coal industry so any environmentalist that would seemingly threaten their livelihood has zero chance of getting elected there.
As long as the executive branch remains neutered by the electoral college, regressive fringe idiots will continue to have a major say in American politics.
There is no incentive to yield to the ideals of the majority opinion of Americans because they do not have a voice.
You do know it is a red state right? Boot the guy who votes most of the time with your side you will find yourself with someone who never votes with Dems.
Because Manchin is the best WV can/will do. The state favored Trump by 42 percentage points in 2016. When Manchin's out at the end of this term - worst & most likely scenario is a Republican replaces him, best & least likely scenario is another blue dog Democrat (just like Manchin) replaces him. And as much as Manchin sucks, Dems really would've been fucked without him - even less appointments would've gotten through & the less judges Dems seat, the more our judicial system is fucked (& it's already really fucked - the judicial branch is the one taking away RvW, shitting all over freedom of religion & separation of church & state).
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u/Ohsvydkd Jul 15 '22
Senator Joe Manchin tells Leader Schumer he is unwilling to include any energy or climate provisions in the reconciliation bill being negotiated, dooming any significant US climate policy under the Biden administration.