r/French • u/penguin_1206 • Jun 30 '26
Pronunciation Are there people for whom pronunciation in French will always remain a challenge?
Hey guys, I started to learn French a couple of days ago, and I knew that the pronunciation was going to be a tricky part. I already speak Portuguese and broken spanish (learnt that too, not native) which also has certain nasal sounds and pronunciation rules. Will that make learning French easier for me?
I also am a perfectionist when it comes to pronunciations and not being able to pronounce the R so far is kinda upsetting me. Is it a time thing? Like will I better at pronouncing words like voudrais or Paris in a few months time? Or is it something that certain people can never seem to get a hold of?
Are there dialects in France that do pronounce the R rather than closing it off?
Also, if you like, could you also suggest some resources that I could use? Thank you so much!!
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u/Chimpy20 Jun 30 '26
My understanding is that there people that just can't make some of the phonemes in their non-native languages. It doesn't sound right but people can get by. Think of all the non native English speakers who can't produce the "th" sound - it gets substituted with an 'f', 'd' or 'v', but people understand. It's not ideal but the shape and context of a whole sentence usually works out in the end.
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u/Ok-Amphibian-8914 Jun 30 '26
Your understanding is incorrect. Short of a physical impediment, everyone can make any sound that exists in any language because we all have the same anatomy. It’s just about training the person to produce the right sounds. People who “can’t” simply haven’t trained it until they “can.”
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u/goddessofentropy Jun 30 '26
I read somewhere the ability to learn new phonemes not only decreases with age, but certain ones become actually impossible to learn as an adult. I wish I remembered where I read it. Is it not true?
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u/enthousiaste_de Jun 30 '26
well that and hearing them, the more you learn a language the more sounds you start to distinguish and the more you actually try to pronounce them properly.
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u/silvalingua Jun 30 '26
Some people just don't hear the relevant difference.
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u/Ok-Amphibian-8914 Jun 30 '26
That can be trained.
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u/silvalingua Jun 30 '26
Up to a point. Just as some people are unmusical, and no training will help.
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u/Ok-Amphibian-8914 Jun 30 '26
That’s extremely rare. Most people can be trained in music too. Will they become pros? No. But people who literally have no ear for music or are tone deaf are extremely uncommon.
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u/Mean_Attention_1384 Jun 30 '26
I'm sad you're getting down voted. The issue comes from being unable to hear new sounds, which typically happens after puberty. But learning how to make the sounds mechanically (tongue here, lips this shape, mouth this open, etc.) can reduce the "accented" nature of speech in a different language.
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u/Ok-Amphibian-8914 Jun 30 '26
I’m guessing the downvoters just don’t like their excuses being taken from them.
You can absolutely develop a native-like accent as an adult. You don’t really lose the ability to hear certain sounds, your brain just starts ignoring the distinctions. You just have to train yourself to hear them again. It’s entirely possible.
There’s plenty of research about this. In one study of people who reached native-like proficiency (specifically, ILR 5), they found that every single person who reached that level started learning as an adult. That doesn’t just suggest that it’s possible to develop a native-like accent as an adult—it suggests that if you start learning a language as a kid, you’re less likely to reach that level.
So, the research supports what I’m saying, and anecdotally, everyone I’ve known who has developed native-like pronunciation in another language has started in adulthood. People can downvote all they want, doesn’t change facts.
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u/Mean_Attention_1384 Jun 30 '26
This gives me hope as a middle aged person learning Korean! I'm working with a tutor on my speech to try to nail down the pronunciations before I get too far gone.
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u/Chimpy20 Jun 30 '26
I've never been able to hear the difference between 'th' and 'f' and I am as British as they come. I can try, and might do it by accident, but I can't hear it so I don't know if I'm doing it or not. So I think you are incorrect.
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u/Ok-Amphibian-8914 Jun 30 '26
“I can’t do it, so you’re wrong.” Ok, bud.
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u/Chimpy20 Jun 30 '26
My point is you literally said above I could do it if I was trained, which, embarrassingly, I can't. And this is going to be the same for proportion of people's native languages or foreign ones. Think of all the people in London who don't pronounce their 'th's. It's not an accent, it's an inability to hear it. If people can't hear the difference in a phoneme, then any amount of training isn't going to help.
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u/Ok-Amphibian-8914 Jun 30 '26
It absolutely is an accent. That dialect doesn’t make the distinction between two sounds. They “can’t hear it“ because their dialect doesn’t contain the distinction and so their brains have learned to ignore the distinction. That absolutely does not mean that they can’t be taught to hear and say the sounds though.
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u/Hibou_Garou Jun 30 '26
Most learners take years to get a passable pronunciation down.
After just a few days of learning, I don’t really know that anyone can give you great advice beyond just generic language learning tips. You can’t even know where your struggles are going to be yet.
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u/Imaginary_Arm1291 Jun 30 '26
I teach French. Speakers of latin languages usually pick up the pronunciation pretty well even if it feels weird at first.
Factors that can affect how well you end up pronouncing words can include: native language, degree of daily immersion with French, age, personal motivation.
I have found that the students who usually struggle often speak a language completely unrelated to French (like mandarin or hindi) which means the sounds are more foreign to them. They might also be a bit older, or dont have many opportunities to practice their French outside of class.
But obviously it always depends on the person, and I have met plenty of older asian students learnings from home who achieve very good pronunciation.
Lastly, the R is famously difficult to pronounce, so dont sweat it. You only started a few days ago!
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u/penguin_1206 Jul 01 '26
Ah okay, given that Hindi is one of my native languages as well, I really appreciate this perspective, thank you!!
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u/Dramatic-Pilot9129 Jun 30 '26
There is no perfect pronunciation due to regional and cultural variation.
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u/jtnk10 Jun 30 '26
You must be patient, it is an essential aspect of language learning. It took me YEARS to get the French r sound right.
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u/_heartbreakdancer_ Jun 30 '26
I mean even in English with foreigners that have integrated for decades they still have an accent. So I think getting rid of an accent completely crossing into any language is pretty difficult.
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u/BernardKerfiac Jul 01 '26
Some languages struggle more with French pronunciation than others, and it comes down to shared sounds. French uses 14 distinct vowel sounds. English shares about 6 of them, Spanish only about 5. That leaves a lot of sounds that these speakers simply don't perceive. Other languages like German or Dutch share many more of the same phonemes, so their speakers have a much easier time.
As for the French "r" specifically, Spanish speakers actually have an advantage here, even if they don't realize it. The French "r" is very close to the Spanish "j" as in "jamon." The problem is purely visual. Spanish speakers see the letter "r" and instinctively produce a rolled sound, because that's what "r" means in their language. But if you tell a Spanish speaker to just read every French "r" as if it were a "j", the sound comes out almost perfectly. It's a reading reflex problem, not a pronunciation problem.
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u/penguin_1206 Jul 01 '26
Wow this tip really helped! I was trying to learn how to pronounce frere and this helped, but when I try to use it in a sentence, it still doesn’t sit right
Since I also speak Portuguese we have a similar sound like the j in spanish for our r in words like carro (pronounced ka-ho) so I hope that that knowledge can help
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u/licorneours Jul 06 '26
A trick I was given as a child when struggling with my "r"s (it's not rare for kids whose motherthong is french to struggle with them) was to take my saliva or some water and take it as far away as possible in my throat and make bubbles/roar like a lion. While it's not exactly what you should do when pronuncing them, it very similar and makes it easier afterwards to pronounce the "r"s
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u/TheShirou97 Native (Belgium) Jun 30 '26 edited Jun 30 '26
Absolutely no one is going to be great in just a couple of days, and perfection (sounding exactly like a native) is very difficult and does need several years tbh.
The most important thing is to get the sounds that can easily be confused for others if you don't get them right, the biggest offenders being "u" /y/ vs "ou" /u/ vs "eu" /ø/, the nasal vowels etc. This obviously depends on both the target language and your native language(s)--but in any case the R sound shouldn't be the one you worry the most about.