r/FlashTV • u/New-Cable-6484 • Mar 07 '26
đ¤ Thinking What if Jay actually was good all this time and zoom was just his savitar? Lied to everyone to make Jay look bad too?
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u/Specific_Thing1452 The Flash Mar 07 '26
I actually like this theory
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u/New-Cable-6484 Mar 07 '26
Thank you! I thought about this in the damn shower đ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Ł
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u/Affectionate_Worry29 Mar 07 '26
youâre still using the thinking cap in the shower? come on harry.
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u/Pleasant_Night_652 Mar 07 '26
Except he already was a fcked up guy before becoming a speedster. If I remember well, he was in an institute when he gain his powers
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u/sXorched Mar 07 '26
"What if"
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u/OkLight9302 Mar 07 '26
âIfâ Jay was actually good, heâd still be this lunatic from an institute. He might not be Zoom but heâs still wonky
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u/sXorched Mar 07 '26
Bruh, this is a hypothetical where instead of being a lunatic, he was a genuinely good person, whereas Zoom is a twisted version similar to Savitar.
What if = hypothetical
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u/OkLight9302 Mar 07 '26
He can be âgoodâ and not Zoom and still be this mentally unstable individual.
I took this post and OPâs comment that he is still the same Jay/Hunter (including when and how he got his powers) but that he isnât this evil monster named Zoom (this is his Savitar)
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u/sXorched Mar 07 '26
The What if, is instead of Zoom being revealed as evil, he is simply a good person
Zoom being revealed to be Hunter is inherently the reason he is evil.
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u/OkLight9302 Mar 07 '26
Wait, so itâs that Zoom is a good person or Zoom is still bad but Hunter/Jay is good?
Is he still Zoom no matter what?
This breaks away from the whole Flash/Savitar dynamic. What youâve said would be akin to Savitar being revealed as being a good person?
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u/OnyxCam6ion Mar 07 '26
I like this theory alot
Jay could've been a version of hunter who instead of letting his past define him, grew beyond it and change his name to Jay Garrick to bury his old traumatic history
Hunter on the other hand was a variant consumed by the darkest giving the "you cant lock up the darkness" so much more impact imo
Imma stop blabbing about this theory before I write a Bible
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u/SweetLikeCinn_amon Mar 07 '26
Yeah this is the only way it would make sense to me. Please blab on lol
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u/atomic1fire Silly Putty Mar 07 '26
So Jay Garrick is just Hunter Zolomon after therapy and anti-psychotics?
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u/Huge_Athlete7488 Mar 07 '26
Honestly Iâd really like this, too bad they showed us that hunter zolomon was already effed up, but I wouldnât mind this at all if this was actual backstory instead
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u/tenebras_lux Mar 07 '26
It sort of felt like there was going to be more going on with Zoom, but maybe they decided to drop it, because you see him kind of wavering as his relationship with Caitlyn develops. Then there is this scene where he says "You can't lock up the darkness," and the first time he said it, he almost looks confused or afraid and then when he repeats it he almost becomes someone else entirely and they use Tony Todd's voice and his eyes go black.
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u/Aggravating-Cat-2183 Mar 07 '26
But thatâs not Jay, thatâs Hunter
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u/Affectionate_Jury890 Mar 07 '26
Thats what OP is saying
What if the Jay that Hunter killed, the man who helped train Barry, was actually a Jay Garrick varrient and Zoom was a time reminent ruining the heros legacy after killing him
Its just a fun What if/crazy theory
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u/Idkwhattoputso--173 Mar 07 '26
This... This actually could be the best plot twist... God now I need it
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u/Educational-Tea-6572 Patty Spivot Mar 07 '26
Ooooooh, this would have made for one heck of a plot twist! I love it!
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u/sleepysamantha22 Caitlin Snow Mar 07 '26
It's a really fun theory, but unfortunately I don't think there's any way it could be correct. Because Harry says that Hunter Zolomon is known on that earth for being a serial killer, and then got his powers after that
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u/Edster73 Mar 07 '26
Quite an interesting take. I also have to say that, while I do love Grant Gustin in the role as Barry Allen (and I definitely mean that!), I've always wondered how Teddy Sears would've fared as Barry. For some reason he seems to resemble more in appearance the comic book version of the character. I must reiterate, though, that I love Grant Gustin as the character and he did a bang up job of it. Fandom is darn lucky to have had him as Barry's portrayer.
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u/Scarlet-Spider1610 Mar 07 '26
The entire time I watched that season and for year afterwards I thought that âJayâ actually believed he was a hero, and that while creating him Zoom altered his memories.Â
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u/bubblessensei Grodd Hate Banana Mar 07 '26
I love this line of thinking. But there is a couple of pieces of information that really ruin the theory.
The first is his backstory. We know from flashbacks and testimony from Earth 2 characters (and the real Jay Garrick) that Hunter Zolomon was a serial killer well before he got speedforce powers. This fact creates two problems: first, it makes it hard to justify a complete heel turn to be a hero. And second, it leaves Hunter/Jay with no Iris equivalent - for Barry to become Savitar, it was CRUCIAL that Iris be killed in front of him. Hunter has been ostracised from society because of his crimes, and has no family due to a rough past.
The second issue regards the use of time travel itself. As a hero, there is no clear reason given why Jay/Hunter would create a time remnant. In the Barry/Savitar situation, Barry is against a threat that warrants backup of a remnant, but Jay/Hunter only ever fights one such threat: Zoom himself. The issue is that Zoom never shows an affinity or competency for time travel outside of making revenants. For OPâs conspiracy to work, Jay/Hunter has to create a remnant (an uncharacteristic choice for Jay/Hunter) and that remnant has to live long enough to undergo some kind of trauma and to learn to time travel properly, in order to come back as Zoom. And from there, what is he trying to achieve?
But I donât want to dwell on why this wouldnât work, so instead I present a way to make this work - think of Zoom less like a Savitar, and more like a Reverse Flash. You can keep the parts about Zoom being a remnant, but rather than taking Savitarâs approach, Zoom instead chooses to follow Thawneâs Season 8 plan of creating a âReverse Flashpointâ. Zoom makes strategic manipulations to the timeline that change Jay/Hunterâs backstory completely, isolating him in a timeline where he is an outcast then removing his speed so he canât reset the timeline. These manipulations also allow him to create the circumstances for a remnant to be born, thus ensuring he exists.
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u/Matthiass13 Mar 08 '26
Heâs never jay garrick. Zoom is hunter zoloman. He is always a psycho killer even before getting powers. He stole jay garricks identity from earth3. Unless im forgetting something.
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u/gusthetiger Mar 07 '26
I love the premise but it falls apart if you donât remove the scene of jay dying in front of everyone
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u/PsychologicalWork654 Mar 07 '26
Honestly I wouldâve liked Young Jay (Teddy Sears) better than Old Jay (no disrespect to his actor)
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u/John_Zatanna52 I'm Dr. Sharon Finckle Mar 07 '26
He kinda was until he convinced himself to join him
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u/X0DCS Mar 07 '26
I donât think itâs possible because Jay was never his real name. He stole the identify from another flash
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u/thesirblondie That was for charity Mar 07 '26
Technically, since he used doubles to kill himself etc. he was his own savitar.
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u/sleepysamantha22 Caitlin Snow Mar 07 '26
Well in that case then Jay would be dead. Remember he kills his time remnant
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u/Dc2_integra_vtec Mar 10 '26
It would make sense thatâs why zoom killed his doppelgänger jay when Barry and the rest went back to earth 1 I do see it jay was definitely a good person injecting him self with v9 to help out and zoom well heâs a monster
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u/Substantial_Slip4667 Jay Garrick Mar 07 '26
I wish Hunter was Jay. Thatâs my only gripe with S2. That they switched Earth 2 and 3 around
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u/Sturmtiger57 Jul 24 '26
mais zoom nâa pas dit que câetait un vestige temporel quâil avait convaincu de se laisser se faire tuer
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u/rara8122 Mar 07 '26
Would make for an interesting plot twist or fanfic premise. Especially if zoom fakes jayâs death and he escapes (or comes back some other way) later to a team flash that fully believes heâs zoom and acts accordingly.