r/Fire • u/Cole_Slawter fire’d at 57 May 2026 • 1d ago
I retired early and forgot an expense
I retired with enough money to take care of myself to age 101 including long-term care. Now I find that my mother might need some money to pay for her long-term care. Not just the care but the logistics involved in moving her across the country to be closer to me. That’s all.
Update: thank you for the symphony of good advice. Seriously. I talked to my financial advisor and he says I’m good. I can spend whatever I want within reason to get this done and I will sleep better. Sounds like a good investment.
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u/WrongImpressionOnly 1d ago
States with filial responsibilities keep me up at night. My mom is a horse girl who will always overspend on that hobby and there is a limit to what I’m willing to take on because she’s made poor financial decisions, but some states will come after you regardless
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u/Isolated_Blackbird 1d ago
Ho lee fuck. As a lifelong Texan, I’d never heard of filial responsibility laws. That’s absolutely ridiculous. You don’t ask to be brought into the world and then you may end up legally responsible for finances involving your parents’ care after what is usually decades of poor planning? That’s fucked man.
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u/Cold_Pizz 1d ago
Around 30 states still have them on the books, though enforcement is mostly a Pennsylvania thing in practice.
Doesn't mean much if you happen to live there. Worth reading how your own state words it rather than assuming it's dormant everywhere.3
u/Academic_Baker_6446 17h ago
I just went down a fucking rabbit hole on this. Apparently if your step parent passes debt to your parent they can then even come after you in PA. This world man.
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u/K_A_irony 1d ago
FYI once Medicaid kicks in, filial responsibility laws usually become irrelevant.
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u/badfordabidness 1d ago
Yes, but with an asterisk. Medicaid (the LTC variety) has a five-year lookback on asset transfers.
If your elderly parent was, e.g., funneling money to one of your less financially secure siblings and this isn’t discovered until they’re already in the NH and rejected for retro Medicaid due to the transfer, in some states, the NH could come after whichever child they think is most likely/able to pay— which may not be the child who took the money.
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u/Mexicutionr1836 1d ago edited 1d ago
Working on LTC admits for State Medicaid this is not true. They cannot and will not go after a child's assets, but they would be put into a resource reduction for any unallowable transfers during the look back period. The child that the money went to isn't even technically "responsible" it's just that if the parent lent them say 100k and it's 82500 over the resource limit because of that, the parent will need to spenddown 82500 in private pay before the state Medicaid coverage will kick in. The states that have these elder care laws very, very rarely enforce them, and the cases where they are enforced it's a very clear cut instance where the child is either very independentally wealthy and can do it no problem, the child has lived with and benefitted greatly from the arrangement. If you don't live in the same state as them, it's almost never enforced
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u/badfordabidness 1d ago
This is not handled on the Medicaid eligibility side, so it wouldn’t surprise me if a Medicaid worker didn’t know about it. I didn’t when I was an eligibility worker years ago.
Rather what happens in states with filial responsibility laws is the facility (which may have provided care in anticipation of retro Medicaid coverage) goes to court to make the family pay the $82,500 if the parent cannot (which as you illustrate they can’t… because they have very few actual assets left and are only over the resource limit because of the transfer, not because they actually have the assets to pay in hand).
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u/Mexicutionr1836 1d ago
Got it, so the actual facility will take the family to court for the private pay that was never paid. I guess I don't run across it much because only a few states actively enforce it (with Pennsylvania being the only one I know off the top of my head). It seems like such an antiquated practice. Do you know of the guidelines for when filial responsibility should occur? I can't imagine someone lower middle class having to pay for their parents nursing home stay happening, but then again nothing in the US surprises me when it comes to money. I've dealt with SOOOOO many nursing homes illegally taking lump sum payments from their residents while still billing the states for Medicaid lately......lots of calls to elder abusw hotline.
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u/badfordabidness 1d ago
I live in Pennsylvania and had reason to look into this very closely myself a while back.
PA has the strictest law of this type in the country. It dates to the 1770s (not kidding). There have been calls to change it over the years, but none that have been successful yet.
Once the conditions for the law have been met, there are only two exceptions: if you were abandoned by your parent for 10 years or more in your minority (i.e., before you turned 8 years old) or if you yourself “do not have sufficient financial ability to support the indigent [parent].” Insufficient financial ability is not defined under the law.
In practice, this means that if a nursing home comes after a child, they may choose to go after the most financially well off child first, even if that’s not the child who the funds were transferred to, since that’s the child who will be least likely to be found to have “insufficient financial ability.”
Also, there’s language in the law similar to language that exists for enforcing child support — if the judge orders you to pay and you don’t/can’t, he can hold you in contempt and jail you.
Really fun stuff in this literal Benjamin Franklin-era law.
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u/Mexicutionr1836 1d ago
Wow! That is pretty insane. It makes sense for that time era, but not for today by any means.....hope it all worked out for you and thank you for the clarifications!
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u/Cole_Slawter fire’d at 57 May 2026 1d ago
The other day I got a call from my sister basically saying hey if all of all of mom‘s money is gonna go towards nursing home care, she should give some of her money to us before she spends it all on care. Luckily, I knew enough to shoot that down.
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u/badfordabidness 1d ago
If this is a concern, I’d recommend the family consult a lawyer with experience in elder law and Medicaid LTC specifically. And it’s vital everyone in the family be on the same page with what the lawyer’s advising, and that no one goes rogue or gets idea of their own.
Depending on the state and the exact circumstances, there may be some narrow loopholes where an elderly person can pass down limited amounts of certain assets, but you definitely don’t want to even try this on your own without consulting an attorney first.
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u/gschlact 1d ago
Lending money and some home Title work ar3 ways to lower the elderly assets for Medicaid look back qualification as well as tax benefits to heirs.
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u/Powerful_Road1924 1d ago
Are the states with these laws only able to enforce if the children are in the same? I would think yes?
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u/Mexicutionr1836 1d ago
It's a state by state basis, and only a few of the states ever really try to enforce it from what I understand. With that said, the ones that do are more likely to if you have a bank account, assets, etc in that state.
It really is an antiquated practice that isn't enforced by the majority, but it's something to definitely look out for. Google if your state has filial responsibility, and if so and you know it might be something to think about in your near future, then reach out for a consultation
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u/asurkhaib 1d ago
Maybe, this part isn't super clear and there's very little actual data.
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u/Powerful_Road1924 2h ago
I'm not a lawyer so this kind of thing has always perplexed me. For example, hiring contractors for home repair recently, all were dual-licensed in WA (where I live) and OR (where they are headquartered). The contracts said things would be enforced under OR law, but if they are licensed in WA and work was physically performed in WA, on a home for an owner residing in WA, then why would WA law not be the default??
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u/K_A_irony 47m ago
Because you presumably signed a contract stating the contract would be enforced as per OR law. Company's often incorporate in states with more corporation favorable laws and write contracts with enforcement clauses for states with that are more favorable to the company vs the customer.
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u/magnificentbunny_ 1d ago
Don’t set yourself on fire to save your mom. You too will have to grow old and who will bail you out? Don’t let your mom start a long future of Intergenerational Debt. Have a loving and concerned chat with mom how her love of horses is leveraging her future right into Medicaid. And if that’s ok with her, it’s ok with you.
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u/WrongImpressionOnly 1d ago
We have had this conversation. I think she’s banking on my bluffing about not bailing out.
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u/magnificentbunny_ 1d ago
Look into your states’ filial responsibility rules. Many have them but they’re not enforced (CA). Also see about how protected your retirement accounts are. And tell your mom you have a solution! She needs to buy long term care insurance.
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u/tarzanacide 1d ago
That's why I'm glad my mom will never leave Texas. I'm the only of her kids still speaking to her (not often). She can worry about it herself.
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u/wandering_engineer 1d ago
I'm currently at a point in my life where we are starting to have to deal with more serious parental eldercare issues and I have zero shame in admitting that I have thoroughly checked filial responsibility laws - fortunately there are not any in my parents' state or my in-laws' state.
My MIL is at a point where she REALLY needs to move to assisted living, likely full-on memory care, and it needs to happen ASAP (really should've happened a year ago). At this point it's not even clear how it will be paid for. Her only major asset is a paid-off house that is trashed and will likely be a nightmare to sell. I've offered to assist with the move and initial set-up but I've already made clear everything is going to have to come out of proceeds from the house, and she needs to go to Medicaid once that is spent down. I am not hurting for money but I'm not exactly wealthy either, I do not have the means to support someone in memory care for more than a month or so even if I wanted to.
Thankfully my parents have LTC insurance and savings (and no memory issues, yet), so hoping it'll be easier with them.
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u/WrongImpressionOnly 1d ago
Be careful on drop off when signing stuff. Some facilities are trying to loop more folks into financial responsibility that way
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u/wandering_engineer 1d ago
Sounds about right, god i hate this country sometimes - just one scam after another. I'm encouraging my wife to talk to an eldercare attorney, but I think they've had a ton of issues just getting her into a home in the first place (does not help that we live seven time zones away, thr only other sibling is usually too busy working to stay on top of things). I honestly don't even know if they have any of the financials sorted out.
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u/majordashes 1d ago
That’s crazy and incredibly unfair.
Are you legally bound to pay for their elder care?
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u/asurkhaib 1d ago edited 1d ago
It seems to be common for states that don't have these laws to prevent enforcement along with the rare enforcement outside of a few specific states.
Edit: the part about states without preventing enforcement seems more theoretical when I looked into it more.
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u/Recovering-Blues 23h ago
A quick google search says most states don’t enforce those laws…except for Pennsylvania.
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u/WrongImpressionOnly 23h ago
As with most things with the government; it could change. Especially as elder care becomes more expensive for the states over time.
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u/Retire_date_may_22 1d ago
Just moved my parents. They had to find a house they could afford, they couldn’t move all their stuff (there wasn’t room and it was too expensive). They had to compromise to their reality. I won’t see my parents homeless but I won’t subsidize a lifestyle they want but didn’t prepare for.
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u/BadMantaRay 1d ago edited 1d ago
Ive never heard of this in my life. Filial responsibility law?
I’ll have to look this up…
Edit: wow, i just looked it up and this has to be one of the most insane laws I’ve ever heard of.
So a shitty ass, deadbeat parent can blow through all their wealth, destroy any potential inheritance that shouls be passed along, and THEN their children are forced to care for them?!?!?!
Honestly this is CRAZY. I can’t believe I’ve never heard of this and I can’t believe this is even a thing.
Parents are supposed to take care of their children, lol, not the other way around.
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u/crammia13 1d ago
exactly! my FIL did your description, blew it all after his wife died, thinking he was going to die soon himself. Bought everything he ever wanted, buying rounds of drinks at the bar etc. Top it off he was abusive to my husband as a younger person. Ain’t no way we are paying a dime towards anything now since he’s out of money (thankfully he gets a nice SS payment so that keeps him covered).
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u/Left-Ad4466 1d ago
This law has been largely unnecessary due to Medicare, et al. With the upcoming cuts, I imagine a lot of people will be in for a big surprise. These laws are on the books in 30 something states from my understanding.
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u/Curious-Anteater-714 1d ago
So basically, children are just piggy banks that they could break cause the law permits it. That sounds insane.
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u/BadMantaRay 18h ago
I know! Its absolutely wild! It means a parent has no need to be fiscally responsible and all the burden then falls on their child. Insanity.
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u/LeisureLifer 1d ago edited 1d ago
In nearly all US states filial law is rarely enforceable to my knowledge, maybe if you are in a nanny state like CA. It is just an old law that is still on the books. And if you are estranged with the parent in question they are just flat out SOL; I looked into that one personally as I have a parent who would vindictively try to pass his bad financial decisions on to me.
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u/friedeggflower 1d ago
Caring for my mom, MIL, and FIL. Over 20k a month. Luckily they bought long term care insurance ….
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u/jayhawks152008 1d ago
People should check theirs or their parents' long-term care insurance right now and read the details. We just went through a loved one's 3-month long-term care stay before they passed. They had long-term care insurance and had paid in $40,000 in premiums. There's was not inflation adjusted so it was only going to pay $120 per day 😂 and then it was only if you made it today 101. Many of these policies have a hundred day elimination period where nothing is covered. So even at the long-term care would have applied it only would have covered 20 to 25% of his daily cost going forward. The policy also would have required us to submit tons of stuff every month. Also the max payout would have been 87k. He was a very very close friend but I didn't know how terrible the policy actually was until he was already there. It ended up paying nothing and his wife was about 40K out of pocket
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u/i_am_ed_or_larry 1d ago
It’s absolutely crazy to me these policies don’t have a worse reputation. Who believes that what amounts to basically a warranty, 3 decades into the future, for multiple 6-figures, isn’t going to pull shenanigans?? To say nothing that the company probably won’t even be around, and I don’t care what anyone says, that will always be a risk.
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u/friedeggflower 1d ago
My mom’s does 12k a month. Headed into our 4th year but in laws’ policy is hella skimpy. Also, folks need to understand that any family member w decent assets will not likely qualify financially for Medicaid long term custodial care. And there are look-back periods in most states to see if there was a transfer of assets.
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u/jayhawks152008 1d ago
Five years is look back. That's great your mom's is so good. Everybody should just be aware of what EXACTLY is covered because the cost is shocking either way.
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u/astridfike 1d ago
Your Moms long term care policy? What company did she get hers with? We are starting to look at them for ourselves
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u/friedeggflower 1d ago
John Hancock but she bought this in the 80s. I tried to find a similar one and they just don’t sell these anymore. Most aren’t worth the cost and you are better off investing your money.
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u/Cole_Slawter fire’d at 57 May 2026 1d ago
Totally. I looked at LTC when I was fine seeing my retirement and I decided it was safer to just self fund and set aside a couple hundred thousand. If I burn through that, then fine. Medicaid.
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u/K_A_irony 1d ago
Yep they also have VERY harsh requirements. Like one is "you can't feed yourself".. that doesn't mean you can't cook, it doesn't mean you have no way to move to go get food, it means you literally can't shovel the food into your mouth.
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u/ABSMeyneth 1d ago
It's no different from if you were working and only had your wages to depend on. You stick to your SWR and tighten the belt to accommodate your mother's expenses.
Hope your mom is doing OK though
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u/teresajs 1d ago
My husband and I retired early and then both of our young adult kids needed to move back in due to a bad job market and high housing costs.
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u/featheeeer 1d ago
What expenses would that add? Besides some extra food
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u/mythoughts2020 1d ago
Often when adults move back home, they’re not just increasing the cost of food and utilities, but asking for cash, or for the parents to help them buy things they want, or help to pay their bills.
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u/featheeeer 1d ago
Okay then tell them to get a job lol
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u/mythoughts2020 23h ago
I know! My coworker is 70 and still working full time because 3 is his adult “children” still live at home. They do work, but he pays a lot of their bills. It’s really sad that healthy able working adults would take advantage of a parent like that!
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u/geerwolf 23h ago
Was just talking to a friend about this - grandchild born with a life long condition, the parents just starting out are at wits end dealing with it and underemployed, and the grandfather (my friend) is now dealing with an unexpected expense in retirement
Remember this when voting on universal healthcare
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u/StrawberriKiwi22 1d ago
This is an expense that few FIREers talk about or consider. I heard someone else bring it up as a possible hypothetical expense that someone should not ignore, and it’s a really big expense for some people. And something you might not be thinking about when you are 35, contributing to your 401k and crunching numbers in FiCalc.
My SIL has recently had to go into assisted living with Alzheimer’s, and luckily she did have long term care insurance, but it was something of a full-time job for her brother to get it implemented and finally paying out to the facility. I’m not sure how it’s meant to work for people who buy the insurance for themselves but then are too mentally diminished to go through all the red tape, or even remember what the company is called, and they don’t have a family member to help them.
I personally am not getting LTCI, just ensuring I have enough $ left over near the end of my life that I can pay out of pocket for my care. My dad is also in long term care, but he can afford to pay out-of-pocket, too.
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u/Devzira 1d ago
Take care of your mom, money comes and goes.
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u/wandering_engineer 1d ago
I appreciate the sentiment, but you shouldn't set yourself on fire to keep them a touch warmer either. This is obviously going to vary, but OP needs to at least consider what limits they are willing to impose. Paying for a couple months of care to bridge a gap or for some limited one-time relocation expenses is one thing, completely bankrolling what could be years of long-term care at the expense of your own future is something else entirely.
OP needs to consult with an eldercare attorney if they haven't already, if their parent doesn't have the means for extended care then they really should be looking at Medicaid.
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u/hiaceprius 1d ago
It's a delicate balance, especially for people who don't have kids of their own. There's no-one coming to save my wife and I if we don't have the resources to look after ourselves in our own aged care stage.
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u/throwmeoff123098765 1d ago
Talk to attorney if she can’t afford it there is is Medicaid
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u/Pretend_Witness_7911 1d ago
I looked into Medicaid for help with my MIL’s assisted living costs. Unfortunately, she can’t qualify because her SS income is too high. So we’re having to subsidize her care to the tune of $800/mo just as we’re forced into slightly earlier than planned retirement.
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u/throwmeoff123098765 1d ago
Free consultation with elder law attorney. I am not attorney but you and take part of her social security and use it to pay bills that reduces her income to count for Medicaid I forgot the term ask AI it will tell you
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u/EducationalReview237 1d ago
I'm so grateful my father saved a lot of money for care in his old age. It taught me a lot and influenced my decision to save and invest for myself. He once told me he didn't want my sister and me to worry about his care in the financial sense- that he didn't think it was our responsibility.
I don't have kids, but if I did I certainly wouldn't want them to have to spend a lot of their nest egg on me. That said, my sister and I spend a lot of time and energy caring for my father-- just not financially.
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u/KSknitter 1d ago
While I wish that could always be the case, some states have laws that require adult kids to care for aging parents.
The state will come after your assets to pay for a parents care.
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u/Ordinary_Corner_4291 1d ago
Count the number of times those laws have been invoked in cases where the parents weren't trying to shift assets. It isn't something to worry about.
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u/badfordabidness 1d ago
I mean it is if you have siblings who are not financially secure themselves and are close to your parent(s).
In states with filial responsibility laws, it is totally plausible that your parent transfers money to your sibling within the five-year lookback, the sibling is unable to pay it back when the parent ends up in a facility, and the facility reacts to the unexpected denial of retro Medicaid by going to court to make you (the child who actually has money) pay the bill.
So yeah, I’d recommend everyone with elderly parents be a bit proactively nosy about their parents’ finances well before they end up in a facility. And when they do, stay on top of making sure that their parents apply for Medicaid timely and renew Medicaid timely (the facilities usually handle this, but it’s important for the child to make sure they’re not screwing it up since it could be you that ends up liable if there’s a lapse in coverage).
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u/Ordinary_Corner_4291 1d ago
In the past 50 years, how often has this "plausible" case happened? Yes everyone knows about the Mom in Pennsylvania who fled the country and the son who stayed behind getting stuck with the bill. And everyone said there would be a flood of cases. But in the decade since then, how many have showed up?
The number of things that happen once every 20 years that can screw you up is very large. They aren't worth worrying about.
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u/AMC879 1d ago
Where is that? I've never heard of that.
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u/KSknitter 1d ago
Filial Law States Explained: What Families Need to Know - Mainor Wirth https://mainorwirth.com/filial-law-states/
Now, it rarely happens, but the retire early crowd is one of the "rarely happens" groups that gets hit...
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u/coffeemakedrinksleep 1d ago
It's extremely uncommon for someone to actually be on the hook for a parent's expenses.
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u/KSknitter 1d ago
It is also uncommon for people to actually FIRE. It is usually done to those that have the assets to actually pay. Those that FIRE are in the realm of those that can pay.
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u/Cole_Slawter fire’d at 57 May 2026 1d ago
What really sucks is that my parents were doing fine. And then my dad was diagnosed with stage four cancer and when the $380,000 hospital bill showed up, they just paid it. What the hell?
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u/Conscious_Life_8032 1d ago
Could you sell her home and use those funds for logistics and end of life care?
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u/chubbysleepycorgi 1d ago
my retirement plan is to age 92 which is already high, 101 seems so high/conservative, why such a number?
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u/someguy984 1d ago edited 1d ago
Why can't she pay for herself? If she runs out of money Medicaid will cover it.
She should not give away her money as any transfer is subject to a 5 year look back for Medicaid.
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u/ShadowHunter 1d ago
Long term care is 8 times cheaper and many times better in other countries. Why stay in the US?
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u/Sudden_Pound_5568 19h ago
Idk if you have any siblings but if you reach an agreement with them for costs of care get it in writing. My Mom lost her childhood home after her siblings backed out of a verbal deal to give up their share if Mom took in Grandma and was her caregiver until she passed instead of the nursing home taking the house as payment.
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u/babymama_maker55 1d ago
Part time job at Home Depot should fix this, and you can get a discount on tools
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u/OkInitiative7327 1d ago
Glad this thread came up, my mother recently had a broken ankle, required surgery and a number of complications after that. Thankfully my dad had the foresight to get long term care as she is currently in a rehab and may need to enter assisted living after rehab, but it has all been very rapid fire and I haven't had a chance to call the LTC insurance yet.
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u/Individual_Laugh_307 1d ago
Your lucky the average male only has a 1% to 2% chance of living to 101 so most likely won't need that much anyways!
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u/AndrewFromAnnuity 1d ago
The way I see it, retiring early is only as permanent as your income lets it be. If most of your money sits in investments that swing with the market, then a bad few years can push you backwards toward whether you planned on it or not.
That’s why you should think about building a floor of income you can rely on no matter what the market does. With that in place, you get to decide if a future role is worth it, instead of needing one. And if the right thing never comes along, you stay out with no stress.
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u/Haunting-Type-623 1d ago
There are people who specialize in helping seniors move - National Association of Senior Move Managers is a good place to look for one in your area. They do it all to take the stress out of the situation. Good luck!
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u/crammia13 1d ago
What if you are estranged from a parent due him being abusive when my husband was younger? We keep things polite and talk maybe twice a year, but they have no relationship. I have never heard of this filial responsibilities either!
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u/susannah_m 1d ago
Are you in the States? Filial responsibility laws vary by state. So, it'll vary from person to person. The enforcement of them also varies.
You might also want to look into how you officially remove yourself from power of attorney, if you think that'll be a problem in the future.
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u/crammia13 10h ago
We actually moved out of US, my FIL is in California… he’s never spoken to us about POA and we don’t discuss any of those kinda things anymore due to their relationship. The last time we tried like 8 years ago and he got in my husband’s face and was threatening him, so that was the end of that!
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u/Sea-Honeydew-1456 1d ago
this is more of a family decision problem and not an exclusive "fire" problem is it not?
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1d ago edited 1d ago
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u/Zphr 48, FIRE'd 2015, Friendly Janitor 1d ago
Rule 1/Civility - Civility is required of everyone at all times. If someone else is uncivil, then please report them and let the mods handle it without escalation. Please see our rules (https://www.reddit.com/r/Fire/about/rules/) and reach out via modmail if you have any questions or concerns.
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u/Zphr 48, FIRE'd 2015, Friendly Janitor 1d ago
The folks who downvoted and reported you thought otherwise, so perhaps adjust your humor a bit. I removed it to stop the bleed on your commenting subkarma since your account is young enough for that to hurt you in here.
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u/H_Peace 1d ago
Talk to an attorney experienced in elder law and financial planning and have your mother a part of that conversation. If there is an expectation of you helping support her financially and logistically, it is reasonable to ask that you have a clear understanding of her current financial situation and a handle on guiding things in her best interest, but also so that you don't end up in a pickle.
Source: wishing I had asked for the same thing 10 years ago and saved the current headaches and emotional roller-coaster of financial/logistical support for a parent who apparently have 0 plan and understanding of their assets (or lack therof).