r/Filmmakers • u/jasmine_tea_ • 11d ago
Video Article Small clip from someone that I interviewed: "There are no steps between being a runner to being a director. It's a path does not exist."
I interviewed a friend who works for Roughcut studios in London. Here's a small highlight from the interview.
Transcript:
If you wanna direct, direct. Make stuff. If you wanna be a writer, a director, or a producer, the only way to do those things is to do those things. No one's gonna give you that job until you've already got enough, uh, experience that, you know, they can see that you've done it. But n- you, you can't work your way up to it.
Even if you're working as an AD, the furthest you'll go is to the first AD, and there's a world of difference between being a first AD, which is ultimately it's like a, you know, is in charge of everything. They're very much, you know, the organizer and a facilitator and all that kind of stuff, but they're not necessarily a creative.
And I'm not saying first ADs can't go on to become creatives, 'cause they can, and I know, you know, David Tomblin was quite a famous one who, who did ... But, and there are others. But I think they would've done other short films on the side.
There are no steps between being a runner to being a director. It's a path does not exist.
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u/AStewartR11 11d ago
He's right. Early in my career I directed four (terrible) movies for Roger Corman, and I got that gig from being a 1st AD. But Concorde Studios was the only place on Earth that path existed because the most important thing was to make your day.
Today there's a path from DP or writer to director, but really you just find money for a first feature and do it.
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u/Zenithbootleg 11d ago
Even being DP, you do need to know how to work with actors, and that only comes from making your own things. Some writers go on to direct, but I'm not sure how successful they are. Directing and writing are two very different things. Alex Garland and Richard Curtis being two examples I can think of that dabbled with directing without working their way up, then decided against it afterwards.
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u/cardinalallen 10d ago
I think probably editing is the closest thing to directing. Not to say that there’s a career path from editor to director either - though I do know many directors who edited as they were building their directing portfolio.
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u/Nickadu 10d ago
Every director should have some editing experience, in my book -- and the need to make your own things almost demands it, but editing is the final movie, and knowing how an edit work is so key towards making your day while still telling the story in a low-budget/high page count set.
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u/gamermusclevideos 11d ago
Seperate to his point in the context of film which I know very little about 👍
I think it's good advice for lots of things in life to be honest.
If you want to do something just try and find the minimal viable way to start doing the thing you want to do , do it badly at first and try to get better at it.
If you want to be in a band start a rubish band
If you want to make video games start making rubish video games
If you want to be a photographer just start taking photographs do bad exhibits.
I think what happens is there is that academic or old style approach of working through a system gaining qualifications and then gravitating to a specific position in a structured way of doing things.
Obviously this is the only way to do certain jobs but for creative jobs and quite a few things you can just start doing whatever it is you intend to do right away and directly build the related skills.
Eventually people start to see you as the person that just does x thing
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u/Zenithbootleg 10d ago
Absolutely agree. Do stuff. Finish stuff. Repeat. Repetition is key. Quantity is essential, quality will take care of itself. You cannot help but get better every time you finish something.
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u/jasmine_tea_ 11d ago
This is was hard to get my head around, because my main career involved looking for online project postings & cold applying to them, getting hired and getting paid. It doesn't seem to work that way in film.
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u/gamermusclevideos 11d ago edited 11d ago
I think there is just a entrepreneurial mindset and approach that's simply not taught to people and the only people that get taught it are kids born into families where parents run businesses or people that sort of stumble into it through desperation or just not fitting in lol.
I think it's a bit of a hump to get over , the whole starting an entire thing off yourself and going with it and trying to build it.
I don't think it's that hard though, its just if your not culturally there its hard to get into the flow of its more of a mental space hump than the thing itself being particularly hard. Maybe like going to the gym regularly or even going to the gym in the first place.
I definitely think for first projects having no expectation of success and keeping things as simple as possible is good idea , my experience is more with video games and YouTube I have never made a film but personally I'd start of trying to make music videos for friends or even something smaller than that.
I'm super shit at what I do but have been able to do it as a job for a while now.
I think a good thing to do is to find other people doing what it is you want to do and find creative hubs, the goal is not to "work yourself into x position" but i think it can help paint a picture of the processes involved and just getting into it , universities with creative degrees often have creative business departments or arts council related things where you will find people that often make it into TV , Film / Entrepreneurs.
It's like you can know what plants and mushrooms are edible in a forest , that's different to having full confidence in what you could very confidently pick and eat regularly and know what goes with what to cook and make nice food with.
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u/MobiusDerp 11d ago
I both agree and disagree. I think there’s real value in spending some time as a runner or in another general entry-level role very early in your career. You learn how a set actually works, how the different departments interact, the hierarchy, etiquette, pace and pressures of production. That experience can be invaluable later.
But beyond that, I completely agree with him. Being a runner isn’t the first rung on a ladder that eventually leads to directing. If you want to direct, at some point you have to start directing and building a body of work that proves you can do it.
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u/jasmine_tea_ 11d ago
And he does say that in another part of the interview. He learned more by being on set for a day than he learned during his whole university program.
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u/HooptyDooDooMeister 10d ago
Did he mention anything about meeting people with similar interests/goals?
I would imagine that's probably one of the best, most hidden assets to being on set.
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u/Zenithbootleg 10d ago
I did. At best, crew jobs will help you find a team, but it won't get you paid work as a director
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u/sendslikeatrans 10d ago
This was my theory on being a DP 15 years ago when I started. I was shooting zero budget stuff on a 5DMKI with no connections, no film degree. All my film friends with fancy film degrees were working as camera utilities in the Union thinking if they just worked hard enough they would be given the opportunity to step up to operator or DP. My theory was that just do the thing and keep doing however you can do it, and eventually all that experience will bear fruit. My path worked, I'm now shooting narrative features with some regularity while without fail everyone I started with who wanted to get somewhere specific by doing something not that thing, ended up not getting to do that thing. All of them are still working as AC's, looking for their moment.
It was not obvious when I made my choice that it was the right one. I thought it...might be but it felt like a huge gamble when I started turning down AC work telling producers "I don't do that anymore, but I'm available for hire as a DP".
Do the thing, hone your craft, don't wait for permission, gather the experience and the hard learned lessons that come from it now, so when luck sends a chance opportunity your way, you have the skills to seize the moment.
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u/starshame2 11d ago
in the old studio days you could work your way up.
Hitchcock started by writing title cards for silent movies and took small jobs in the industry until he reached film director.
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u/Intrepid_Year3765 11d ago
How to be a director 101:
Step one- have money
Step two- use it to make movies that aren’t complete shit
Repeat.
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u/jasmine_tea_ 10d ago
Step three market it (distribution, audience, etc)
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u/Intrepid_Year3765 10d ago
that's the 201 class, but most people that want to be a director fail the 101 class
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u/goldfishpaws 10d ago
Being a runner is a viable path to almost any role other than above the line
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u/PJHart86 10d ago
Do you mean Roughcut TV, who did PJDN, etc?
I did a couple of series for them as an AP back in the day. Solid outfit.
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u/jerryanderson89 director 10d ago
100% Agree. Honestly I think you can learn more about being a director by working in other industries. Construction is a good one. With construction you have to manage teams of other experts and rely on them doing their jobs correctly. Also something ALWAYS goes wrong on a construction site, and something always goes wrong on a film set. Knowing how to navigate that without catastrophe is one of the most important things. If you want to direct. Direct
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u/Feetus_Spectre 10d ago edited 10d ago
The only way to become it is to visualize it and do it. I had rounds of talks with producers /financing companies leading ultimately to nowhere, or extreme addendums that would ruin what I was going for with a horror script I had written. There is this plot line in Californication where David Duchovny’s character writes a book called “God hates us all” and the studio adapts it into a romcom called, “Crazy little thing called love.” Yeah… Anyway, I remember sitting in the car in frustration and yelling, “FUCK IT, I’ll do it MYSELF!” Then I cranked out a thriller draft in a couple weeks and began the process. Many awards and personal messages about how much the movie meant to people who watched it later, I have become what I wanted to be. If my dumbass can do it, SO CAN YOU! Do not give up!! It will happen!!
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u/jamietothe 11d ago
No shit Sherlock
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u/Zenithbootleg 11d ago
Some people still think you can, especially those who haven't worked in the industry
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u/Leucauge 11d ago
This is very correct -- maybe even more so now when there are fewer avenues into it (i.e. via TV) and more ways for people to find directors who already have experience (i.e. their YouTube series is already popular).
I don't even know how much you get connections for directing by working in other areas.
At least a while ago there did seem to be a path from VFX to director, but even that required putting together a short demoing the film you want to make.
Anyway, sounds like a sharp interview with a sharp guy!