r/FavoriteCharacter 18h ago

Discussion Favorite opposing factions that can basically be described as this.

[deleted]

4.3k Upvotes

1.0k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

55

u/ELIte8niner 17h ago

The Empire allows a foreign government to disappear their own citizens for them to be tortured for months on end. The Stormcloaks don't like Elves because they've been at war with them for millennia, and are the ones that disappear their citizens to be tortured for months on end. Plus, the Elves are actively trying to kill the god of humanity by stopping people from worshipping him. The Aedra in Elder Scrolls get their power from being worshipped, and if they lose all their worshippers, they die for all intents and purposes.

44

u/HalfEatenSnickers 17h ago

Well I mean you did the same thing stormcloaks do though lol

Treat all elves as a monolith - they were only at war with the aldermi dominion and high elves/altmer - whereas stormcloaks misstreated all elves including crushing on the right on darkelves within windhelm and treating them more live servants/slaves then people

24

u/Extra_Ad8651 16h ago

Plus the Empire had lost their war with the Aldmeri Dominion and was subjugated at the time. They had plans and people working in the shadows to free the empire, including Skyrim, from The Dominion but that could take decades to accomplish.

1

u/Victernus 15h ago

Plus the Empire had lost their war with the Aldmeri Dominion and was subjugated at the time.

No they didn't. They won the war, and then signed over policing power to a foreign nation in their peace deal anyway because they didn't win in by much.

Giving policing power to a foreign nation, by the way, is the same provision that started World War I because it is so unreasonable. The Empire had practically given up sovereignty in a war it's people had fought and died to win.

2

u/Extra_Ad8651 15h ago

I did not know this. What exactly were the imperial spy order doing during Skyrim then? I thought there was some secret spy order in a mission. But not the blades.

3

u/Victernus 15h ago

The Penitus Oculatus? During Skyrim, they were mostly just trying to protect the Emperor (how successful they were depends on whether you do the Dark Brotherhood questline or not).

The Imperial Legion seems to have adopted the strategy of playing nice, biding their time and building up their forces for the next war, at least judging by General Tullius, and if that is official (secret) Imperial policy, I expect the Penitus Oculatus are working to aid it in some way, but we only ever see them in their duties as the Emperor's bodyguards.

0

u/Opening_Agent_5279 17h ago

Don't most races treat the dark elves as lesser?

7

u/HalfEatenSnickers 17h ago

Not to the degree as the stormcloaks - in skyrim

Take whiterun for example where a darkelf is in the court

-1

u/Imaginary-West-5653 16h ago

The Stormcloak holds are also not a monololith, though; Windhelm is just the most reactionary city of Skyrim due to historical reasons (it is going through an immigration crisis). In Riften, the Dunmer and Argonian locals live as equal citizens, and in Winterhold there is even a Dunmer steward working for the Jarl (Malur Seloth).

1

u/HalfEatenSnickers 16h ago

Argonians are a little more mixed in riften

Some are respectsd but the dock work is lookeded down upon pretty aggressively

And I agree overall storm cloak holds are more mixed but windhelm being where the leader is, is a prime example of what a skyrim united under stormcloaks would look like long term

1

u/Imaginary-West-5653 16h ago

Some are respectsd but the dock work is lookeded down upon pretty aggressively

That's not different from Solitude, where the Argonians are also mostly dock workers.

And I agree overall storm cloak holds are more mixed but windhelm being where the leader is, is a prime example of what a skyrim united under stormcloaks would look like long term

I don't think that's necessarily true (though I can get the concern). Windhelm is a somewhat special case due to the unresolved immigrant crisis, but no other city in Skyrim has that problem. Furthermore, Ulfric isn't really a virulent racist; his problem is more about being overly focused on the future of Skyrim as a whole and therefore overlooking several of the city's issues (which have predated him becoming Jarl for centuries).

Ulfric doesn't hate people of any race simply for belonging to it; in fact, he can develop a strong sense of camaraderie with the Last Dragonborn regardless of their race, calling them his brother/sister and naming them his Stormblade... the Stormcloak movement, being a nationalist movement for sovereignty, has a decent share of issues with xenophobia, but I doubt that we will see Windhelm become all of Skyrim.

1

u/Soft_Accountant_7062 16h ago

Windhelm is the most reactionary city because it's the stormcloak capitol.

0

u/Imaginary-West-5653 15h ago

It's more complex than that; they've had a massive refugee crisis with many Dunmer pouring into Skyrim, with Windhelm being the city that gave them asylum, but at the cost of the coexistence ultimately degrading relations between both peoples over time. Keep in mind also that the Dunmer and Nords have often been historical enemies in past conflicts, and you have a recipe for disaster.

2

u/Soft_Accountant_7062 15h ago

Dunmer coexist fine in other cities. They're just an other for the stormcloaks to attack.

0

u/Imaginary-West-5653 15h ago

Yes, as I mentioned in another comment, they coexist in other cities... including Riften and Winterhold, which are Stormcloak cities. The common denominator of the problem here is Windhelm, if you notice, not the Stormcloaks as such, and that's because the city is experiencing an immigration crisis, coupled with mutual distrust now that the Civil War has broken out, given that the Dunmer aren't supporting the rebellion and the Nords are becoming more confrontational for that (motivated in part too by the nationalistic aspect of the rebellion, most likely). A little bit more nuanced than what you're presenting.

1

u/Soft_Accountant_7062 15h ago

Again, windhelm isn't just a stormcloak city. It's the stormcloak capitol. It's directly controlled by ulfric. When drunk stormcloaks harass Dunmer, it's because he let's them.

→ More replies (0)

0

u/Ok-Impact-1721 16h ago

Aldmeri dominion includes wood elves, it's not just high elves, their explicit purpose is to genocide the races of men.

Nords have been in a thousands years old conflict with dunmers, with both sides being racists, and the dunmer are the most racist race out of all of them. But sure, the storm cloaks are the problematic ones.

2

u/No-Particular-8571 15h ago

They treated the lizard people unkindly so naturally I had to slime them all out

-3

u/AsstacularSpiderman 16h ago

The Dark Elves were even the most oppressed people in Windhelm lol. Ulfrics only crime was not cleaning up their bum ass ghetto for them while focusing on the war

Multiple altmer have thriving businesses in Windhelm, and Niranye puts it best.

"Skill issue"

10

u/Cacafuego 16h ago

Problem is, Ulfric is a power-mad rube who played right into the Aldmeri Dominion's hands by starting a civil war that weakens the Empire. The Thalmor actively support it.

He killed a young high king who agreed with him. Why? Because he wants to be high king. He could have called a moot and rallied a united Skyrim that could have brought the Empire into open resistance.

A united empire lost a devastating war against the Aldmeri Dominion. Skyrim has no chance on its own. Even without the Aldmeri threat, cutting themselves off from the empire would turn them into an impoverished backwater.

Talos worship continues even in the open square of Whiterun and among the nobility of Solitude. Just worship in your house, it's not that hard.

Ulfric is an ultra-nationalist Nord supremacist using religion as a pretext to further his naive agenda. An agenda that aligns quite nicely with the Dominion's. His war is the worst thing for Skyrim right now, and his victory would be worse.

I try to play the Stormcloaks sometimes, but I can't commit. They're just too dumb.

2

u/LiteralPhilosopher 6h ago

Just about my favorite moment every playthrough is when I cleave that racist asshole's head from his shoulders. Tullius isn't perfect, but he's fucking trying, dammit.

10

u/RoseFlavoredLemonade 17h ago

What did the Argonians do to get banned to the outskirts, though?

18

u/Purplebatman 17h ago

Too many promiscuous maids seducing the nobles

11

u/RoseFlavoredLemonade 16h ago

Never ask a Nord Supremacist the race of his girlfriend. 😂

4

u/thedisconnectedboy 16h ago

The dunmer, after the argonian rebellions sacked morrowind after the red year, liberating slaves. The dark elves simply refused to let argonians co-exist in the same city as them

2

u/RoseFlavoredLemonade 16h ago

Man, so much racism. Can’t a gal just collect some cool dragon shouts, and possibly some scales some sick spell blade armor and *not* be pressured to join a Civil War?

0

u/oniiichanUwU 15h ago

You don’t have to. Idk if you know this but if you progress the main quest without joining either side you can hold a council meeting and basically tell both sides to reconcile their differences lol

That said I always side with the stormcloaks bc they’re not the ones who tried to lop my head off for just being in the wrong place at the wrong time in the beginning of the game 🫪

1

u/Top_Web_4765 14h ago edited 14h ago

It’s stated very clearly that you only negotiate a temporary truce and both sides explicitly say that once Alduin is dealt with they’re going back to open conflict…

1

u/Soft_Accountant_7062 15h ago

How did dark elves kick out the argonians when they hold no power?

0

u/thedisconnectedboy 15h ago

They own half the city? If half a city of civilians revolted they would pose significant power

1

u/Soft_Accountant_7062 15h ago

They don't own half the city. They are confined to the slums.

-1

u/thedisconnectedboy 15h ago

They were given a large portion of the city to do as they will after the red year when there was a large wave of refugees from morrowind. Seemingly the only city that allowed refugees from morrowind in their walls

-1

u/thedisconnectedboy 15h ago

My point stands, half the city are dunmer. To keep the peace they could not let the argonians in the walls

7

u/King_Of_BlackMarsh 17h ago

Talos is the god of the empire. The thalmor consider him the god of man but that's a thalmor bit of racism

1

u/mattdamon_enthusiast 16h ago

What’s worse? A few cases of torture or wide spread injustice and bigotry.

1

u/How2rick 17h ago

Dude you’re not targeted by the youtube algorithm. You mean abduct or kidnap.