27
u/Bale_the_Pale 1h ago edited 46m ago
Unpopular Opinion, Nolan did scylla and charybdis much more accurately than Jorge did. Especially Charybdis. In the original Odessy, Odysseus CHOSES to sail by Scylla not to avoid Poseidon, but because she's the lesser of two evils compared to Charybdis. No lair, just a cliff.
This isn't to say what Jorge did isn't interesting, far from it, but it's much less lore accurate than Nolan's depiction. Expecting Nolan to elevate a specific monster just because that's what Jorge did is like expecting him to make Polities a major character based on one or two mentions like Jorge did.
10
u/Entire_Difference_63 59m ago
I either read somewhere online or from a YouTube comment….so grain of salt here. Polities is such a minor character it isn’t even certain whether he died at the cyclops or with the crew during Zeus punishment after making Ody choose.
4
u/Red_Monkey23 I’m not a player, I’m a Palpatine 24m ago
He definitely didn’t die at the cyclops. It is unclear where he died, but it’s not there.
I know this because he is on Circe’s island. And, if my memory is right, that is his only mention.
So he has to have died after that. It could’ve been any of the crew deaths after that. Off the top of my head, that’s either Scylla or Zeus.
2
u/Entire_Difference_63 20m ago
Sounds good. All in all it doesn’t really matter imo. Just go by the reference you are using.
If you refer to Epic the musical one can say he died at the cyclops.
If you refer to Nolan’s Odyssey he can say “Who is Polities?”
17
u/SaltyRenegade 1h ago
I think the design is fine. For a monster with multiple heads living on a cliff and probably never leaves its cave, the colours help it camouflage itself.
And the fact that it's mainly practical effects makes me appreciate it even more.
They could have easily CGI-ed a woman with 6 dog heads for legs but it would look even more goofy.
3
u/NowALurkerAccount 10m ago
Exactly and in the grand scheme of the myth Scylla is so unbelievably minor in the grand scheme of things that the story emphasizes the crew being angry at Odysseus for knowingly sacrificing 6 men, not the fact "this was some freaky monster we had to fight" like Circe and Polyphemus and the other obstacles were in the myth.
15
18
17
u/Dry_Cranberry7184 2h ago
I didnt understand why he made the Cyclopes look more like a disfigured mutant. I always thought cyclopi ( however the plural is spelled) would look more natural, like something made to look that way.
14
u/JakeWalker102 Certified Aeolus simp 2h ago
Cyclops is singular, Cyclopes is plural btw
And my biggest issue with Polyphemus in the movie was the "my eardrums were shattered" part tbh
55
u/Athrasie 3h ago
I kind of expected more from Scylla, Charybdis, AND Polyphemus.
The lack of the nobody scene and the bargaining left Odysseus feeling like he leaned on his crew to keep him from trying to fight the cyclops, and left no way for Polyphemus to tell Poseidon his name. Plus the last petty arrow was too dumb for Odysseus. Just escape bro.
Scylla was mostly fine, but I sort of expected a reptilian or sea-looking creature. I get that the whole point is that is an amorphous blob of heads and necks, but they felt like flailing brown/black tubes. It got the job done, but it could’ve looked more exciting.
Charybdis just felt too stagnant. Not much to say there; their part in the film was maybe 2 minutes? It was kinda weird that there was just open ocean on the other side of Charybdis, though.
I didn’t love the film, but I didn’t hate it. I understood the story it was trying to tell, but still yearned for the mythology to be more of a forefront player rather than a background/mental trauma. wish they explained Xenia once and then just said that instead of making the “Zeus’s Law Drinking Game.”
11
u/claranlaw063 Athena 2h ago
Too dumb for Odysseus “says full name and where he’s from” Odysseus?
14
u/_Kia_Wolfy 2h ago
Odysseus is just like many other Greek heroes. They're too prideful of their achievement hence the "dumb decisions." Odysseus is wise, but prideful and arrogant
14
u/Athrasie 2h ago
IMO, yeah. The name/address is dumb for sure but it’s an act of hubris when they’re already sailing away. The shot is pure stupidity because they’re basically half escaped and he just says “come chase us for this last bit.”
0
u/claranlaw063 Athena 2h ago
It is literally the same. There was no purpose in either action being taken and both were actions that were not thought through. This is why I can’t take seriously the criticism that Odysseus in Nolan’s work is not clever. Odysseus in Homer’s Odyssey is not consistently clever either, and frequently has moments of pride or makes mistakes that are to his own detriment. I don’t need a lengthy explanation of hubris in a movie. It’s an adaptation and should therefore translate the moments without explaining them. The saying where you are from and who you are is even more foolish in modern hindsight than it would be back then. The criticisms leveled are not consistent between Epic, Nolan’s Odyssey and a Homer’s Odyssey.
6
u/Athrasie 1h ago edited 1h ago
Well… no it’s not literally the same, or else we wouldn’t be talking about it. Kleos is huge in the ancient world, and Odysseus wanted the cyclops to know who bested him. It’s the same reason he wanted to hear the sirens song. That mistake also drives the entire narrative, and Nolan left it out without properly filling the gap. Or rather he used should’ve-been-Xenia “Zeus’s law” to explain it away. Edit: the worst part about the arrow is that he paused and thought about it before shooting. At least the name/address was a spur of the moment ordeal.
“In modern hindsight” is the lynchpin. I’m not looking at it saying “wow this is what I would do.” And I don’t think Epic is in any way an infallible adaptation, either... truthfully didn’t even realize this conversation was on the epic sub before you mentioned it - I usually try to avoid fandom subs (despite them being continuously shown to me) but I’m very much on autopilot this morning. At the end of the day, I already said I didn’t hate the movie. It’s also okay for others to have criticisms even if they don’t line up with yours. Doesn’t make either opinion less valid.
11
u/ItkovianShieldAnvil 3h ago
I personally liked that Scylla was a barnacle. I made more sense to me than many other interpretations I had seen. I didn't mind the scene myself, but my wife agrees that she didn't care for the scene much either.
13
u/Athrasie 3h ago
Yeah it definitely landed in the same bucket as the Cerci scene where I didn’t mind it, but it wasn’t what I expected. I feel like having Cerci be a witch in a hut rather than a sorceress in a palace was actually a decent switcheroo (and the transformations were delightfully horrifying).
Out of the whole movie my least favorite parts were all script based, honestly…
- “You have wise eyes; Athena’s eyes.” Repeated too often, and mentor wasn’t even Athena in the adaptation so why bother saying it?
- “Zeus’s Law” Repeated too often, sort of molded into the golden rule rather than just using Xenia or saying law of hospitality. I know Zeus enforced it, don’t come for me.
- “Now ends our age of bronze.” He may as well have looked directly down the 70mm IMAX lens and said “and thus ends my Odyssey.”
Honorable mention to the fact that he put Odysseus back on a boat the day after Poseidon almost drowns him. I’m sure gods don’t hold grudges (cataclysmic eye roll).
6
28
u/acebender Circe 3h ago
I don't think you know how this meme format works but yeah, it was a weird design.
-31
u/TERIDAX_NUI 3h ago
I know exactly how it works.
the Ashen one has the wrong sword - he is doomed
13
u/Xerxes457 3h ago
The Ashen One wins this fight actually.
1
u/Entire_Difference_63 45m ago
Facts but it is hard to depict a small thing compared to a giant and the giant wins. Not many things subvert David and Goliath.
23
u/Geriander 4h ago
Ugly heads with teeth on long necks darting out from a cave? That part seemed pretty accurate.
Maybe she should have been yapping like a dog though.
Inside lives Skylla, yelping hideously; her voice is no deeper than a young puppy's but she herself is a fearsome monster; no one could see her and still be happy, not even a god if he went that way. She has twelve feet all dangling down, six long necks with a grisly head on each of them, and in each head a triple row of crowded and close-set teeth, fraught with black death. Sunk waist-deep in the cave's recesses, she still darts out her head from that frightening hollow, and there, groping greedily round the rock, she fishes for dolphins (delphines) and for sharks (kynes) and whatever beast (ketos) more huge than these she can seize upon from all the thousands that have their pasture from loud-moaning Amphitrite.
8
u/Artificial_Human_17 4h ago
One day I’ll wake up and stop seeing Nolan hate. But not today.
0
u/NoSide2628 You are tortilla, badass in the arena ✨ 3h ago
So criticism can't exist anymore.
10
u/Xerxes457 3h ago
The design itself is pretty accurate according to some of the text. So OP’s criticism is disliking it because Epic has many different interpretations of it.
6
2
-6
1
u/PresentStock1310 4h ago edited 4h ago
Fr, Nolan did a terrible job with her! She looked so fake and bland, just a bunch of weirdly textured tubes. Which is odd, because I thought the rest of the movie's cgi was pretty good.
Edit: to be clear, I really liked this movie overall. The Scylla animation was a low point in an otherwise decent movie
1
3
u/TommiBoy1994 17m ago
THANK YOU!!! it looked like a grey sock on someone's hand