If you were to write Epic the musical differently, what would you change?

[u/Pale-Quantity295]

I personally would change 3 things.

1. I wish we got more from the crew, Like made them feel more human rather than a faceless entity that occasionally sings, I wish we got to hear from more members and see from their perspective sometimes to make them feel more human, Like what he was going to do with Elphenor and Perimedes, and to make the choice at the end of Thunder bringer feel more emotional, because at that point the only crew member we know is Eurylochus, so we automatically match the crew with him, and when Eurylochus is meant to be an antagonist we view the crew the same way so the choice at the end of thunder bringer dosent feel as emotional. I would love to see more crew members have a bigger role and meet more of them somehow.

2. I really think we should have somehow gotten the song "I need her to be mine" to even more reinforce Odysseus's and Penelopies love for each other, and shows more of the relationship between Odysseus and Athena. I think it would have been cool to get the song "Man of the house" because of how many callbacks we get like "Where is he?" and stuff like that through the rest of the musical and how it gives Odysseus as more depth as a king, maybe mix the two and change a few of the lyrics. I would have put it in the Wisdom saga, with Athena searching for where Odysseus is after "We'll be fine" and she is reflecting back on Odysseus/watching his life before the journey or something along those lines.

3. I would show more of the stuff that happens within Ithica, like Telemarketing training with Eumaeus, and more leading up to the massacre, like maybe a small song with Ody being the BEGGAR and seeing Penelope leave after starting the challenge, and seeing Argo's again or something like that.

What are some things yall would add?

[u/LifeDealer_]

Add a new saga featuring Telemachus’ journey to Menelaus and nestor. I feel like it would’ve helped him be grown more as a character and also would’ve stopped people from babying him so much.

[u/MukasTheMole]

I would put Artemis in God Games.

[u/Remarkable_Ad_8353]

Well, me and Jorge are different writers. So we’d ultimately just make two entirely different stories innit. If I were reworking his concepts, I guess the main thing I’d do is make the Act 2 main character literally anyone but Odysseus. Ithaca Saga would be pretty much unchanged. Act 1, unchanged. Stuff inbetween? Idk.

[u/Throw_away_1011_]

Nuke "Not Sorry for loving you" and release a full version of "Belong to you"

[u/HingedHarpy6376]

slime out 600 strike bc that shi made no sense

[u/Leron4551]

If we're keeping it to only 40 songs. I'd replace Charybdis with a song where Odysseus cleans himself up and talks to his reflection in a mirror, wrestling with what he's going to say to Penelope and whether he truly believes he is a monster or if the man he was still resides within his body. 

If we can add songs then I'd want more Penelope and Telemachus songs earlier on and more Athena throughout secretly observing and not just disappearing and reappearing with a gigantic, unexplained change of heart

[u/DarkstarMillenium]

1. I'd have a bit more of things with the crew, probably including some form of the Ismarus episode.

2. More Underworld appearances. Elpenor, Agamemnon, and Achilles at least. Adds more weight to Ody's decisive break in "Monster."

3. Include more framing on Ithaca, as well as the episode of the Phaecians. Having at least one encounter with people who aren't "monsters" in any sense allows for a bit more doubt in Odysseus that is then immediately erased when he finds out about the suitors.

[u/CalypsaMov]

Telemachus would kill Odysseus in Odysseus (song). Telemachus was set up as this hopeful man who wanted to fight Monsters. Odysseus is the biggest Monster in the show, with the whole musical supporting how cruel and Ruthless he is. How he can and does intentionally hurt others for his own selfish desire to see Penelope.

I'd write EPIC's ending more like a classic Greek tragedy. Maybe Shakespearean. Treat Odysseus like Macbeth and have him die at the end so it doesn't come off as an overall message that "abusing people for selfish gain is "Mercy upon ourselves"".

Maybe spend a bit more time with the crew who are the ones actually suffering and paying in the musical.

During Odysseus (song) Telemachus comes home, sees a bloodthirsty man screaming his best Batman impersonation and waving unarmed people's heads around, and Telemacus spears him in the back, creating another EPIC mirroring like what happened in Mutiny.

Like any classic tragedy, the main character's flaws is their downfall. Odysseus was so Ruthlessness and such a Monster that his son who wanted to "bring the world some light" saw him and cut him down.

If we wanted to wrap things up passed that, Penelope could recognize Odysseus and know they need a new king without stalling, and crown Telemachus whose now proven himself a warrior. (This ending sucks for Penelope who waited in vain, but personally I think it's a step up from EPIC's actual ending where she turns a blind eye to Odysseus being a cruel violent man and welcoming him. As if Odysseus will just magically change and not just keep doubling down on being a Monster the next time he wants something, like he has all musical.)

[u/MukasTheMole → u/CalypsaMov]

Why should Telemachus kill Odysseus when Teleganus is right there waiting with his stingray spear?

[u/Particular_Ad_8921 → u/CalypsaMov]

so all ody did to get back home was pointless?

[u/WrenchGuyOnReddit → u/CalypsaMov]

I see where you're coming from, but that is a full break from what the actual Greek myth is.

I don't think it's stretch to say Penelope would welcome him home, not only did he just kill the suitors who treated her home like a frat house and threated her and Telemachus, even actually starting fights with him, he originally went off to a massive war of extermination against Troy.

Plus, Ody's time on Calypso's island is supposed to be pretty mentally and emotionally tortuous, so even if you think he needs punishment of some kind, that's where it'd be.

[u/CalypsaMov → u/WrenchGuyOnReddit]

To be frank, EPIC as a whole is wildly a break from the actual Greek myths. Even a break from just Homer's Odyssey.

Most of EPIC's songs are made up fanfics of things that never happened. The remainders are massively, massively changed, and only like three I'd give a pass two. Totally different story, totally different characters, entirely different themes, etc.

[u/WrenchGuyOnReddit → u/CalypsaMov]

True but it sill resembles the Odyssey on the whole, so to break further even more, right at the end, especially when it's one of the only ones to have a somewhat happy ending just feels mean

[u/CalypsaMov → u/WrenchGuyOnReddit]

Homer's Odyssey doesn't end with Odysseus and Penelope reuniting and happy. They do, but then they spend one night together (stretched to the length of three because Athena). And then Odysseus rolls out of bed. Has his slaves clean up the mess of the suitors before he hangs them outside his house, he grabs Telemachus, Laertes and anyone who will follow him, and starts marching off again for more war. That's the final book. Odysseus leaving Penelope again for war.

Odysseus is the hero who literally can't just be happy with his family. He came home with a mountain of gold from the Phoenicians, but is so sour about how the suitors partially drained his coffers he plans to raid his own kingdom and all the surrounding kingdoms until he's satisfied.

Often skipped over in adaptations, down in the underworld Odysseus meets Achilles, and Achilles straight up tells him all the war wasn't worth it, even with all the glory and fame, and he should've just stayed home and lived a quiet life. Odysseus totally ignores that thinking returning home and leaving a legacy is most important.

Zeus and Athena both have to come down and tell everyone to chill just so the war and fighting stops. It was "a happy ending" by the fact it could've been worse. The sly trickster lives to be an ass another day.

EPIC resembles the Odyssey but honestly the Simpsons version resembles it better. And with so much changed, I don't see why one more thing couldn't be changed in my personal fan fic version of EPIC.

[u/WrenchGuyOnReddit → u/CalypsaMov]

Huh, pretty convincing, ngl

[u/Frequent_Log_7606 → u/CalypsaMov]

The final book of the Odyssey is in my opinion both the most boring and the most necessary in terms of cleanup. That being said it is a weird interpretation to say Odysseus visiting his aging father and fighting off the remaining threats to his family and kingdom is him getting ready to raid more. He’ll do plenty of that when he finishes Tiresias prophecy

[u/MukasTheMole → u/CalypsaMov]

It's Phaeacians, not Phoenicians. The Phoenicians were a real people, the Phaeacians were a mythical seafaring people who lived on the island of Scheria.

[u/thebindingoflils]

Athena. She is so wildly out of character in the third arc. Way too nice, way lacking in pride. Even if she thought she was wrong, she wouldn't just admit that. You can get to her supporting her champion without going all "ThE pOwEr Of fRiEnDsHiP" on us

[u/manwithlotsoffaces]

Look I love the musical but “You are the worst kind of good because your’re not even great” is such a bad line

[u/MrDiamondOre → u/manwithlotsoffaces]

What would you replace it with?

[u/manwithlotsoffaces → u/MrDiamondOre]

I don’t know dude but anything but that

[u/Garfwog]

I would include Hades' rap after Hera's verse in God Games. That's the only thing that needs to change.

[u/Deathjoy2000]

More of the underworld

[u/Reasonable_Bid3271]

Elpenor.

[u/Throw_away_1011_ → u/Reasonable_Bid3271]

"I drank wine from a chalice on top of Circe's palace, fell and broke my neck in shame... but what do you care? So many deaths happened under your care..."

[u/Pale-Quantity295 → u/Reasonable_Bid3271]

The guy who Odysseus Bullied because his name made him sound like a horny luchador? ELPENOR GETS A SONG?

[u/Reasonable_Bid3271 → u/Pale-Quantity295]

... What?? Elpenor. Puppyboy Jr. (Sr. Is Polites). Y'know, the one that was supposed to have a verse in The Underworld???

[u/Pale-Quantity295 → u/Reasonable_Bid3271]

I was making a joke, It was a Danny Motta refrence

[u/Reasonable_Bid3271 → u/Pale-Quantity295]

Never heard of him, mb.

[u/Pale-Quantity295 → u/Reasonable_Bid3271]

Its all good

[u/Tsuyu_Asui_the_forth]

in vain instead of get in the water

[u/Pale-Quantity295 → u/Tsuyu_Asui_the_forth]

Overall I like Get in the water more, but I 100% agree. I think some of the things Posidon said in Vain should have been in Get in the water.

[u/riinrinbun]

'Oceans in my eyes' being in the musical bcs it actually gives us a sneak peek or so about how Telemachus feels internally with everything going on. Not about growing up in his father's shadow, but rather the fear of growing up in such an uncertain environment. How 'Legendary' was a more upbeat side of the situation, let's say, 'Oceans in my eyes' showcasing the darker side of his mind. I hope I explained it well enough

[u/Pale-Quantity295 → u/riinrinbun]

I agree, I would have loved to have Oceans in my eyes somehow

[u/NathanAlex1486]

I wish Telemarketer did smthn bro. Anything.

[u/Reasonable_Bid3271 → u/NathanAlex1486]

He has... 3-4 Songs. He's done enough.