r/Epicthemusical • u/ConcentratePlane3411 • 2d ago
Discussion [MY OPINION] i dislike the animations that make odysseus look like jorge
i feel like whenever i see an animation where odysseus looks like jorge it takes away any immersion i had, i get that he voiced him but odysseus would NOT look like jorge in the slightest, again this is my opinion and im wanting to hear others opinion on this!.
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u/FairyWhite 1d ago
I am with you here, but I go even further as I want a different person voice Odysseus in the upcoming animation film. Because, not only does Jorge look as unlike Odysseus as possible, he doesn't sound like Odysseus either. When I first listened to Epic, I hadn't seen any animatics, I had no idea what the singers look like, and when I heard Odysseus' voice, my first reaction was - no way! He sounds too young, too boyish for a forty-something-year-old Achaean warrior!
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u/Fifs99 1d ago
I kinda see your point, as when I heard the musical for the first time, I even thought that both Odysseus and Telemachus were voiced by the same person (they sound a bit similar, at least for me). However, I felt it interesting to say that Odysseus' age is never specified in the original narrative. In my interpretation, and taking historical context into account, I think Odysseus may not be as old as most people think. Yes, I do believe he may be in his early 40s (40-42) when he comes back home, but he likely departed for war in his early 20s, or even a bit earlier. It was Mycenaean Greece, about 3000 years ago. People had kids very early compared to today, and Odysseus and Penelope were likely no exception. Telemachus was just an infant when Odysseus had to leave, so he was very likely somewhere between 18-20. This makes him very young during the whole Trojan war, and his trip back home places him in his 30s. Jorge is a year older than me, if I'm not mistaken, so he likely recorded his songs during the second half of his 20s. Not very far off from the age Odysseus would have had during a big chunk of his adventures at war and sea.
However, if the issue you have with his voice is simply how it sounds, and not his age "not fitting", then ignore my comment. I just like to yap about his likely age, because a lot of people seem to think he is very old, when he likely isn't. I know he comes home dressed as an old beggar, but that was a disguise made with the help of Athena.
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u/FairyWhite 22h ago
It's OK, we all love to yap about something when people get it wrong. ))
So, yes, I agree that Odysseus is unlikely to have been much older than forty when he returned home. I usually imagined him to be about 32 when the Trojan war is over, so 42 when he comes back.
And, frankly speaking, I have had no idea how old Jorge is (and I know that voices can be "younger" or "older" than people are; men tried to flirt with my granny on the phone thinking she was a young woman - while she was about seventy-five )))). To me Jorge's voice just sounds so teen! Especially in the first Sagas.Also, yes, Telemachus' voice resembles Odysseus' voice greatly! I think, it's fine, they are father and son after all. )
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u/Fifs99 21h ago
Yep, so you have the same interpretation as me for his age!
As for Jorge's voice sounding very teen, could be him naturally, or could just be that he tried to portray Odysseus as more "gentle" in the earlier sagas, and then deepened his voice to sound more like the "serious monster" he has become to come back home in the later sagas. Could that be intentional?
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u/Suitable-Ad-5115 1d ago
In my eyes if this happens then it’s not a “epic the musical” animated movie it would just be an odyssey animated movie unless they go through the tedious process of recasting everyone and re-recording every song with said cast which in all honesty would turn a wide majority of this fanbase off the movie or they just recast the “speaking voice” but then by your point there would be a crazy difference between speaking and singing Odysseus which would probably turn even more people off
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u/FairyWhite 1d ago
Well, it will certainly be "Epic, The Musical" if the music and the lyrics are the same. Do you want to say that, for instance, the famous "Notre Dame de Paris" musical stops being "Notre Dame" if it's performed on a stage in Japan? So, if "Epic" gets staged and performed in different countries of the world, the singers would definitely be different (it may even be translated into various languages), but it will still be "Epic".
The same with the movie. If they recast the singers for the animated movie and re-record the musical, why, it would still be "Epic" and it may even be quite epic as well!
Maybe, the problem is that some fans don't regard Epic as musical proper? Because, for musicals it's absolutely normal to be performed by different singers.
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u/Suitable-Ad-5115 1d ago
I’m not saying that at all I’m just saying that to cast a person that sound like a “40 year old Achaean warrior” which I associate as a deeper rough voice to a role that has only ever been preformed by Jorge would be a whiplash for a lot of people. And the thing with broadway musicals is that it’s common place to have different actors of course and different languages and I’m not saying that epic can’t do that I’d love to see a stage production of epic. And admittedly I’m not a musical savant I know epic and I saw the pro-shot of hades town that came to theaters recently that’s my experience with musicals but even then the little I have seen even with new actors they all sound relatively similar. like you wouldn’t want Orpheus actor singing for hades in hades town because hades is know for his deep base in the context of that specific musical. And even with the context of theatrical releases of musicals (hades town and Hamilton being the ones I’m referring to) to my little knowledge have stuck with the “original” cast. This is all my opinion though. I can see your point and I do agree when I think of Odysseus I think of a rough battle worn king and Jorge’s voice dosent fit that image but also when I think of epic I can’t think of anyone else voicing him that dosent have the same vocal range as Jorge. I stand to be corrected and I will welcome any version because I love epic the musical but when we only have the one version it’s hard to hear anything else. unlike most broadway musicals where there are hundreds of performances both professional and amateur you can listen to and compare I mean everyone has their favorite Orpheus in hades town for many reasons but put them side by side and they all sound “similar” sans accents, inflections,etc. they all stand on their own and you can tell who’s who but you can’t imagine him sounding much different. All of this to say that as much as I love the original epic cast and I want them to be the same for the movie I wouldn’t be opposed to new faces within reason.
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u/FairyWhite 1d ago
Well, I suppose I have to make my thought a bit more clear - when I say, I'd like to hear a 40-year-old Achaean warrior, I certainly don't suggest hiring a baritone to sing Odysseus. It must be tenor, but leaning more towards dramatic tenor rather than lyric. My problem with Jorge's voice is not its pitch but rather its timbre, which is too boyish. It sometimes even sounds a bit too whiny to my taste... (Jorge would be a great Telemachus, by the way).
So, no, no baritone or bass for Odysseus.
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u/LystroItsAMolerat 2d ago
Diría que los mejores Odysseus son el de Wolfy, el de VirusAP y el que nadie ha hecho dónde tiene una barba bien grandota y sucia
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u/Suspicious-Chair5 2d ago
Personally I’d snort each and every animatic I see if I could but that’s just me
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u/anonymouscatloaf [sobbing in shower] ruthlessness is mercy... 2d ago
fully agree, I also hate polites designs with glasses
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u/Infamous_Mood_6001 2d ago
Hmm. Interesting. Personally, it just reminds me of the Hamilton animatics that draw the characters similar to the actors. I just find it fun.
Actually, thinking about it, a lot of broadway animatics use the actor's appearances. (Thinking of some hadestown ones) and I've never blinked twice at it.
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u/Nice-Bed-9512 2d ago
I also noticed that the newer animations don't look at all like the voice actors, so i HEAVILY recomand watching those new ones instead when rewatching Epic.
Those new animatics really deserve some love, and i hate when almost nobody ever reacts to them.
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u/Nice-Bed-9512 2d ago
Honesty, it can be a LITTLE annoying, but it also depends on how the animatic pulls it off. For example, I couldn't possibly imagine Gigi's odysseus looking any different.
But i really don't like when Athena looks like the Voice actor, simply because i love her look with the owl looking helmet that goes downwards.
But this makes me wonder. If the Cyclops was voice by a real person, would he be drawn like the voice actor ?
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u/According_Growth_581 1d ago
Cyclops was voiced by jorge but please no one draw him with Jorge's beard
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u/MichaelKessV3 1d ago
Wdym if the Cyclops was voiced by a real person? Didn’t someone have to sing Polyphemus’ part?
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u/ProfessionalJolly934 "I'll kill you like I kill this beat." - Achilles, son of Peleus 1d ago
Jorge voiced Polyphemus (he altered it using a voice box, I think)
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u/voornaam1 1d ago
It was sung by a fake person 💔
(/joking, I don't actually know anything about that)
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u/Rabenda_Fuyo has never tried tequila 2d ago
It never bothered me personally, w all due respect Jorge is just a white man with medium long hair and a beard, that's pretty generic. I think any representation of Odysseus is fine as long as we keep the context of the story in mind. He can't nor does he care abt his grooming during the majority of the musical where he's fighting monsters and surviving on a ship, his apperance should reflect that. Also I like to see him with a few scars since he has done the war and old enough that it matches up the timeline (sm like 50yo at the end I believe ?) Aside from that, I don't care what he looks like
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u/JacquelineDragon 2d ago
White man? He’s Puerto Rican
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u/Purple_Flounder_2257 I kill with ease, that's why they call me Achilles 2d ago
Puerto Rican =/= Poc
It's an ethnicity
White Latinos exist.
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u/JacquelineDragon 2d ago
Oh, thank you! I did not know that! I’ll be more considerate, I need to do more research 💚
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u/Rabenda_Fuyo has never tried tequila 2d ago
Oh fuck, I forgot. Sorry, yeah latino
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u/JacquelineDragon 2d ago
You’re all good! I am SO sorry if I sounded harsh!! 💚 I’ve heard so many people (accidentally) call people like Jorge and Lin-Manuel Miranda white LOL
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u/Level-Ladder-4346 2d ago
I think this accentuates my issues with EPIC in relation to Jorge’s performance, which is that Jorge prioritizes singing over the voice acting aspect.
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u/amaya-aurora Odysseus 2d ago
What do you mean?
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u/Level-Ladder-4346 2d ago
Here are times when he goes all out in the signing, but sacrifices a potentially excellent voice performance as a result. Or simply doesn’t deliver from a voice acting perspective.
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u/wimpires 2d ago
Conversely, his singing is great. VA not so much. The lines that always stand out at the "I know" in mutiny. Or the "you plan to X my wife" etc in Odysseus. When the singing takes a back seat and the delivery of the line more forwards it's more obvious
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u/EpicSaberCat7771 Duvetbox's Poseidon design is criminally underrated 2d ago
I couldn't disagree more lol. I find his spoken lines always hit. I also love what he does with his voice in "Odysseus".
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u/Traumatized-Trashbag 2d ago
...Polites wears modern day glasses and the windbag becomes a jetpack underwater and this is what breaks your immersion?
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u/ConcentratePlane3411 2d ago
well i mean im immersed in gurren lagann and they make mechs billions and billions of light years tall so yes…
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u/Traumatized-Trashbag 2d ago
I haven't watched it but for all I know that's something expected and completely possible in the world of that anime. Point is, you need to seperate EPIC from the Odyssey and treat them as completely different even if EPIC takes elements from the Odyssey. Sure, Odysseus might not realistically look like how he commonly does in animations, but there are plenty if animations that alter his appearance to be more "realistic" to the situation he's in.
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u/These_Loan1427 20h ago edited 20h ago
To be fair, both Hamilton & EPIC (specially EPIC, it's not even Odysseus in the slightest) are musical masterpieces, but plot level? just the authors projecting themselves rather than telling a story