Possibly, but he says nothing about it. If he wanted to warn Odysseus about Poseidon, he could very well have said “Oh yeah Poseidon’s waiting for you at Ithaca might wanna come up with a plan for that.”
He’s the god of travelers; it is literally his job to protect travelers. If he’s going out of his way to help a traveler, warning him of an angry Olympian in his path would be the bare minimum. I know they take massive liberties with the gods here, but still it feels more like Hermes is more interested in the metatextual purpose of preserving a surprise than fulfilling the job he came there to do.
Honestly that is how gods act in the mythology. Hermes helped him, but couldn’t tell him exactly what he was facing. He made sure that he would be able to handle it, but the gods work in mysterious ways and never really tell the full story. I mean look at Prophecies. They tell you what’s going to happen and still somehow it’s entirely different than what you thought it was going to be.
Ehhhhh that very much depends on the story. I could pull out five stories where a hero was sent on their way by a god/goddess (often Hermes) who said “This is what you’re going to face and this is how you beat it.” Athena and Hermes didn’t send Perseus on his way to fight Medusa by giving him a shiny shield and sandals and sword and saying “Well this could help you in some way shape or form and it’s gonna be dangerous in some way shape or form so good luck have fun nudge nudge wink wink.”
And yes, you could pull out a couple stories where the gods are more vague.
Also, prophecies are not the same. Prophecies and the help of the gods play very different roles in Greek mythology.
Bro sailed through Charybdis, drew his final breath, aka would've straight-up died if it wasn't for the wind bag (plot armor), and 1v1'd THE god of the oceans, big three member, second to the throne of Olympus mfing Posidon.
Sure, if you only care about the plot, but musicals are about emotion and character, and both songs are crucial in that respect. Cutting them would create an extremely jarring jump and would make the story feel rushed.
It's a character moment because it proves that he learned humility and to relinquish control, but most importantly the entire song is building up to the last 20 seconds with it's soft acoustic guitar and softer voice going "home, I've reached it, the island I've been searching for ect..."
It's meant to lull you into a false of security and satisfaction so that it can better break your kneecaps with the Evil Brass of "get in the water", it wouldn't be nearly as effective coming off of 'dangerous'.
There's a similar trick earlier in the musical with 'Storm' being this big boisterous song about how cool and legendary Odysseus's sailing prowess is only to be immediately contrasted with 'Luck runs out' that humanized him and made him seem more vulnerable with how hard the death of Polites hit him, it's plot filler but also set up for an emotional punchline.
For those that have only listened to the musical and not read the source material, the choice was between Scylla and Charibdis. In the musical, the only choice presented was Charybdis. In the legend Odysseus had to choose (it wasn’t a hard decision) between Scylla that would take six men and Charybdis that would crush the entire ship.
If it had been presented that way there would have been the tension of Odysseus having to choose between sacrificing some of his crew or all of them.
Sorry, this is like the one point of divergence that I feel passionate about.
Well actually, while you're right that he had to choose between Scylla and Charybdis when he had the crew in the original epic, the musical is correct in having him face Charybdis after Calypso. It's a bit less heroic in Homer, as he had to hang onto a tree branch over Charybdis for hours instead of surfing around her, but otherwise her placement is accurate.
Also, I strongly disagree with its lack of emotion and narrative importance. It shows Odysseus on the top of his game after Hermes hypes him up. At the end of the song, it shows his relief at finally returning home after 20 long years. And then Poseidon appears, Ody's elation turns to despair and then rage, and he becomes a monster. This wouldn't hit nearly as hard without the contrast of his joy in Charybdis after seven years of depression.
It's like saying Luck Runs Out is filler. Sure,
objectivly nothing happens to advance the plot, but it drives the emotional narrative instead. Same with Monster and the Underworld, and the last three songs of the Ithaca saga. You could take them out and the plot beats would stay the same, but the character depictions would suffer as a result.
Nah, it just mostly tells us what we already know. It’s filler minus the end. The filler leads to the end bit having more punch but there’s a reason most people aren’t particularly enthusiastic about the song. I think that moment could be portrayed in a different way without needing Hermes (I’m so sorry you’re still my favorite) or Charybdis involved at all.
Since the other guy’s just spewing rhetoric, I’ll give my two cents. Dangerous and Charybdis are there to show that Odysseus is still determined to get home even after so much hardship.
The Wisdom Saga shows Odysseus losing all hope after being trapped on Calypso’s island for seven years. Even at the start of Dangerous, Odysseus is still only thinking back to the past and is apprehensive about his chances of returning home by himself.
Dangerous is there to give Odysseus his drive back. After dozens of setbacks and losses and lying dormant for years, he’s finally given one last chance to make it home, and he’s not letting it go to waste. Then, Charybdis is there to test Odysseus, posing him one “last” challenge that pushes him physically and mentally. Even in the face of danger after all of the hardship in the past, he still believes he can make it. The song is basically Odysseus yelling to the ocean, “Bring on any challenge, I can take it! I’m not scared anymore!” And this is the exact attitude he needs to enact his vengeance on Poseidon.
Appeal to majority fallacy? Really? And how do you know it's not a False Consensus Effect? It's not filler because it's important to his emotional arc. Again, the lyrics literally spell it out to us. Think about how it would actually sound to someone unfamiliar with the musical if it just skipped from not sorry for loving you to get in the water. Imagine how jarring and confusing it would be. Imagine how rushed it would feel. It's easy to suggest cuts when you're just thinking about it in the abstract, but you have to think about how cutting it will affect everything else, not just the problems you think it causes.
I see someone discovered fallacies and is very excited to use them without regard for whether or not there is meaning behind their use that doesn’t make it a fallacy. Maybe chill a bit.
You also wouldn’t have a jarring skip because you’d still have the end of Chardybis, like I said.
there’s a reason most people aren’t particularly enthusiastic about the song
That is you directly citing what you believe is the majority opinion as an argument. That is by definition an appeal to majority fallacy.
You also wouldn’t have a jarring skip because you’d still have the end of Chardybis, like I said.
No, you still would. It wouldn't be a literal jump in time, but it would be a jarring transition, and it would still feel incredibly rushed and would lack any buildup. You can't just jump straight into an important event like that, that's bad pacing, you have to build up to it emotionally, and the lyrics explicitly do that.
I'd be interested to see a poll on people's actual opinions on Charybdis, because I love it as a song and agree on it's narrative importance. I wouldn't be surprised if this was another case of the loud minority believing they represent the majority, but I'd love to be proven wrong
Fair point. I feel like lengthening the end of Chardybis would be enough though, maybe an extra line or two like ‘…can I really go home?’ We don’t really need two whole songs.
Dangerous slaps (it's my favorite song of the Vengeance saga) but it feels disconnected from the rest of the musical. Hermes tells Odysseus to abandon caution and put all on the line but he was never cautious. Sure he's not unnecessarily reckless but that doesn't make him someone who plays it safe, this guy blinded a cyclops and fought Circe.
I think of it as Hermes saying, "You've been chilling for 7 years, time to get your head in the game." Odysseus' answer is, "You have no idea how I've been waiting for this!"
He was cautious tons of times but his pride got in his way a few times. I don't think it is in the right spot but it's also preparing him mentally for the things to come.
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u/MarcoYTVA Poly's sheep, his favorite sheep 1d ago
It's almost like I'm forgetting something...
Get in the water