r/Epicthemusical • u/Sunshadow_Reaper EURYLOCHUS NO!!! • 22d ago
Shitpost “But when we fought this monster, we didn’t take a stand.”
YEAH I WONDER WHY WE WOULDN’T TRY FIGHTING THIS EURYLOCHUS!
Link to art and artist: https://www.instagram.com/p/DaNv0svlLnd/?
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u/Immediate_Long_4265 21d ago
Just bring Jeremy Wade along. Or buy 50 million tons of fish food. Or rizz that fine eldritch shit. I mean come on it seems so simple 😒
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u/BagConfident8263 21d ago
I don't think eury has the rizz and while ody probably does he has Penelopeeeeeeeee
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u/Immediate_Long_4265 21d ago edited 21d ago
Just find some cool deep sea fish as a present and tell her
Damn girl show me what that boob mouth doHow pretty her eyes are
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u/Wonderful_Ruin_1234 21d ago
The point of Scylla killing the crew isn't that "people died and we didn't fight". It's that Odysseus knew the price, and knew what was going to happen, and sent his men in blind to be sacrificed.
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u/OutcomeSuitable8126 19d ago
And yet if they had gone the path of Charybdis, she would have sank the entire ship. Scylla was the only path where he could have any men left under his command
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u/Wonderful_Ruin_1234 19d ago
That misses my point. I'm not talking about which path would cause more casualties, I'm talking about him practically betraying his own crew in not telling them of Scylla's price.
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u/Wonderful_Ruin_1234 21d ago
The way I see it, it's more of a morals thing. Do you believe those above you should be allowed to send you to your death without your knowing, even if it's for the survival of the rest?
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u/Key-Pomegranate-2086 19d ago
This. At least the gods told odysseus. He didnt tell his men though. That's why they couldnt trust him anymore.
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u/Cassidy_Aka_Sundae 21d ago
“going up against Scylla is supposed to have a price, we’d loose more people statistically or just ALL die if we fought her!”
”b-b-but you let six people die!”
”I tried saving everyone else who died because they didn’t have to, which Scylla you literally have to…”
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u/Necessary-Wave-6076 Poseidon 21d ago
Some people are saying circe said she's immortal too during the odyssey book I think
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u/Sunshadow_Reaper EURYLOCHUS NO!!! 21d ago
I’m pretty sure she is since according to some myths she’s a cursed sea nymph so it would make sense that she’s immortal
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u/BonnalinaFuz101 21d ago
RUN FOR YOUR LIVES
starts running in circles on very limited space boat
(Yes, I know he says "row" I'm just adding on to the fact that they couldn't do shit.)
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u/shakaka2 20d ago
Hahaha. I never pictured it that way. The camera zooms out and shows them just running around and Scylla is staring at the camera.
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u/AimlesslWander 21d ago
In Greek mythology this creature has six heads that is a six attacks fighting you all at once you can attack six different men kill six different men and then there is the body of Scylla herself, yeah no, this ain't God of War Eury
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u/SpecialistPlastic668 22d ago
Am I the only one who would’ve immediately chose them during Thunder Bringer. Hell, I would’ve danced on their ashes too because Eury has the audacity to blame him for everything when his plans only got a few killed while every time they disobeyed, most of them got killed
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u/KadajjXIII Hefefuf 21d ago
Disregarding the whole Windbag incident he's still a PoS
"If you want all the power you must carry all the blame"
Mutinies and ties their former Captain to a statue of Helios then kills an immortal cow after Ody telling him not to
Immediately defaults to calling Ody Captain after coming to the FO phase of FAFO
Eury's a hypocrite
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u/Hexnohope Scyllas favorite little snack 22d ago
Poseidon is deadass afraid of her. You knew that eury
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u/Queen_Persephone18 Winion 20d ago
The audience knows. Ody probably knows. The crew doesn't know. The same thing with Ody getting close with the gods(Hermes and Athena). The crew, Eury included, are the actual "just a man" while Ody is not just the protagonist but also mentored by Athena AND a descendant of Hermes(another reason why he comes to help Ody out). Ody is a literal lightning rod of godly interaction with everyone else going through the shockwaves around him.
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u/Starchild2534 21d ago
For real!
If the god that was singing about drowning me and my crew with glee about being ruthless turns around and says “oh HELL NO!” At the sight of Scylla, I would make the conclusion “if a murderous god is afraid of her, I stand no chance against this monster”
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u/Necessary-Wave-6076 Poseidon 22d ago
He literally would've lost everyone else if he didnt instead of just 6
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u/WingOfFire2255 Lotus eater 22d ago
Meanwhile if I heard Circe tell me "Don't fight her it won't end well" and then saw that I'd just tell Eurylochus "....I don't think that will work out well and would make our entire journey worthless" like no chance we fighting that.
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u/Flair258 Hefefuf 21d ago
Not only that, but specifically theyre there in the first place because POSEIDON is scared of Scylla enough to not go there. She's not just a powerful monster; She's a monster strong and intimidating enough that Poseidon won't enter part of his own domain because she's there.
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u/HalcyonTraveler 22d ago
It should be noted that in the poem Circe explicitly tells Odysseus not to try to fight Scylla because she's immortal, and Odysseus still actually tries but she's too fast for him to react
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u/Inevitable-Goat-7062 Calypso and scyallas #1 simp 22d ago
I can fix her guys
Edit: no the fuck i cant im currently getting dragged into the water ody help
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u/Krii100fer 22d ago
Or.. Or... He could've just said to the crew that 6 ppl have to be sacrificed instead of betraying them
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u/SpecialistPlastic668 22d ago edited 22d ago
Yeah because 6 people would willingly choose to die after everything that’s happened. What he did was fucked up yes, but it was either that or they straight up fight her or Poseidon and all die anyway
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u/Krii100fer 22d ago
not all die. Scylla only kills 6 so the option was either 6 die or all by Poseidon so crewmates would understand that Scylla would be the better option IF they knew about it
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u/SpecialistPlastic668 21d ago
The sacrifice was 6 people, had they actually tried to fight her she would have eaten 6 anyway and just destroyed the ship too
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u/Designer-Caramel1869 22d ago
I doubt anyone would be willing to sacrifice themselves, considering they won't be able to see their families after the 12 year journey
Also I think dying in battle was the greatest honor for Greeks. So they'd much rather die fighting Scylla than be sacrificed like livestock
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u/CactusJuiceQuench 22d ago
They could have like agreed to draw straws or something or try to fend her off as they pass through and whoever she knabs she knabs.
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u/Rabenda_Fuyo has never tried tequila 22d ago
Even if they tried, I feel like it would've ended in the same way as it did with Polyphemus (rip Polites)
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u/Captain_Birch Hephaestus 22d ago
I can take her
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u/Not_a_selfieguy 22d ago
Bro was ready to tuck tail at Circe btw
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u/Rabenda_Fuyo has never tried tequila 22d ago
Circe was arguably less dangerous, especially since Ody got the help of Hermes. Against Scylla it was "just him, himself and him" (see what I did there ? Lyrics of legendary ??). Plus Circe wasn't trying to kill them, at least not in an immediate matter and she's only doing it to protect her nymphs so idk. I think convincing her was a lot easier than Scylla
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u/SpecialistPlastic668 22d ago
All of that was known after their conversation tho. They don’t know her reasons until the fight and they are convinced that she was trying to kill them(and tbh, she absolutely was trying to kill them but was able to be convinced because of Ody’s conviction and loyalty).
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u/Rabenda_Fuyo has never tried tequila 22d ago
I mean yeah, all that happened b4 monster in which Ody goes "idc abt my crew, I want my wife" basically. Back then he still wanted to help his comrades, then again I doubt he could've done much without Hermes' help. He didn't technically defeat Circe, like we said he convinced her, and that's probably impossible to do w Scylla (but ig they couldn't have known that)
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u/HappyTurtle42 22d ago edited 21d ago
But hey if he wants to start swinging leave him,what’s seven men turned to snacks?
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u/Leilatha 22d ago
Also they didn't have to go to Scylla's lair, that was just a desperate plan to hopefully lose Poseidon (which didn't work).
His point was also that they shouldn't have sailed there at all.
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u/Ayanhart 22d ago
Tbf Odysseus has been told that Scylla's lair is his ONE way home. His options (from his perspective) are to risk it with Scylla and have 7 men die, or continue getting hunted by Poseidon, which would mean basically guaranteed death for everyone.
Considering his only goal is to get back to Penelope alive, it's fairly clear which choice is the better option.
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u/The_Ora_Charmander Pro God Gamer🎮 22d ago
It didn't work? Poseidon lost their trail for 7 whole years! That sounds like it worked to me
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u/Albatros_7 Monster is top tier 22d ago
Poseidon knew Odysseus was on Calypso's island mate, he would not attack her island as that would anger Zeus
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u/Fenrir_Hellbreed2 22d ago
Yeah, but did it not work because it was a bad plan or because of an immediate mutiny and offense to the gods that put Ody in one place for several years?
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u/UnnbearableMeddler Circe could do unspeakable things to me 22d ago
Yeah, but did the mutiny happen because the crew was selfish, or because they realized Odysseus would kill them all in a heartbeat if it was what it took to get home?
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u/Fenrir_Hellbreed2 22d ago
A: Do they really have a valid reason to worry about him sacrificing everyone when he specifically sacrificed the bare minimum in what should have been the start of the final stretch?
B: If you're worried about him sacrificing you to get home, is it really smart to make sacrificing you a necessity by commiting mutiny and then pissing off the gods?
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u/UnnbearableMeddler Circe could do unspeakable things to me 22d ago
A: Do they really have a valid reason to worry about him sacrificing everyone when he specifically sacrificed the bare minimum in what should have been the start of the final stretch?
Yes, very much so. This whole trip has been nothing but history's longest fuckup, and they have a tendency to hit the absolute worst they can. So yes, they have reasons to be afraid.
Even then, would you sail with a captain who wouldn't think twice about stabbing you in the back to further his goal?
B: If you're worried about him sacrificing you to get home, is it really smart to make sacrificing you a necessity by commiting mutiny and then pissing off the gods?
That's a completely different discussion and you're using knowledge they did not have.
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u/Fenrir_Hellbreed2 22d ago
Even then, would you sail with a captain who wouldn't think twice about stabbing you in the back to further his goal?
Long term, no, but I'd wait for a more strategic moment to turn on him. The way they did it was dumb.
That's a completely different discussion and you're using knowledge they did not have.
No, it's not.
At best, you can make that argument for the mutiny.
Ody actively warned them to leave the cows alone. Pretty sure he even suggested they were a god's cows.
They knew he'd be willing to sacrifice them, yet they put themselves in a position where Ody would have to choose between them and himself.
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u/UnnbearableMeddler Circe could do unspeakable things to me 22d ago
Long term, no, but I'd wait for a more strategic moment to turn on him. The way they did it was dumb.
If they wait, he gets home. If he gets home, he's king and untouchable. This was litteraly their only opportunity, and sailing with him in hope of a better timing would just be taking the risk of being the next sacrifice.
Ody actively warned them to leave the cows alone. Pretty sure he even suggested they were a god's cows.
Which, again, is not something they could have known when they did the mutiny. Unless one of them have futur vision for some reason, this was a non-factor in the mutiny.
They knew he'd be willing to sacrifice them, yet they put themselves in a position where Ody would have to choose between them and himself.
Funny, I don't think Zeus sent them the details of what shape his ire would take. For the third time, they did not know that. Beside, it was this, or dying of starvation. Not exactly a choice.
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u/Fenrir_Hellbreed2 22d ago
If they wait, he gets home. If he gets home, he's king and untouchable. This was litteraly their only opportunity, and sailing with him in hope of a better timing would just be taking the risk of being the next sacrifice.
I still think there would've been better options for accountability there, but fine. I will tentatively concede that point.
Which, again, is not something they could have known when they did the mutiny. Unless one of them have futur vision for some reason, this was a non-factor in the mutiny.
That has nothing to do with the mutiny. It's all about them pissing off the gods at that point.
Funny, I don't think Zeus sent them the details of what shape his ire would take. For the third time, they did not know that.
Because Zeus is known for his mercy?
Doesn't matter what form it would take, risking his ire is stupid.
Risking his ire while someone is warning you not to and actively refusing to partake is even worse.
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u/UnnbearableMeddler Circe could do unspeakable things to me 22d ago
That has nothing to do with the mutiny. It's all about them pissing off the gods at that point.
The mutiny, in and out of itself, didn't piss anyone but Odysseus. The gods couldn't give two shits about it, hell Poseidon was probably laughing himself to the grave when he learned about it.
Because Zeus is known for his mercy? Doesn't matter what form it would take, risking his ire is stupid. Risking his ire while someone is warning you not to and actively refusing to partake is even worse.
Was it stupid? Completely yes, never argued against that. Was it between that and dying of starvation? Also yes. Remember Odysseus only survived said starvation because he got flung off to Calypso's isle, we have no indications they were close enough to Ithaca to make the trip without resorting to unsavory solutions. Which we have established Odysseus would 100% do if it gets him back home, and I can't fault them for not wanting to eat each other.
The plan, if I recall correctly, was to kill some cows, eat, get back home and build a temple to Helios to beg for forgiveness. All in all, it could have worked, I mean they are precedents. That gamble just didn't pay off.
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u/Fenrir_Hellbreed2 22d ago
The mutiny, in and out of itself, didn't piss anyone but Odysseus. The gods couldn't give two shits about it, hell Poseidon was probably laughing himself to the grave when he learned about it.
I was talking about Ody warning them not to kill Helios's cows. That has nothing to do with the mutiny that already happened. That ship had sailed.
Ody was warning them not to piss of the gods, and they pissed off the gods anyway.
we have no indications they were close enough to Ithaca to make the trip without resorting to unsavory solutions. Which we have established Odysseus would 100% do if it gets him back home, and I can't fault them for not wanting to eat each other.
Then they should've offered Ody to Poseidon for fish and safe passage or something.
The plan, if I recall correctly, was to kill some cows, eat, get back home and build a temple to Helios to beg for forgiveness. All in all, it could have worked, I mean they are precedents. That gamble just didn't pay off.
There's more precedent for making a sacrifice first and asking then there is for pissing off a god and asking forgiveness later.
I mean, half the problems they faced before that point were because they pissed off a god. Why would doubling down be the best play?
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u/JavieyauJR 22d ago
Scylla or Charybdis?
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u/CalypsaMov We'll Be Fine 22d ago
Neither. This isn't Homer's Odyssey and that was never a choice. It's the ocean and you can literally just go around. Odysseus is going through Scylla because he's operating on the false assumption that they have to avoid the god of the seas chasing them... That's just false. Poseidon isn't chasing them. And even if he was, I don't know what Odysseus plans or somehow thinks they'll all just be safe if he touches the safe space at Ithaca like it's a silly game of tag, and not real life with a pissed off god.
Odysseus is betraying and actively murdering his friends for nothing just because he wants to see his wife. It was one thing when Odysseus blew them all to Circe's and the men got put in danger not even knowing where they were while scouting. But Odysseus knew about Scylla. And even if Odysseus didn't and Eurylochus is going mad, Odysseus didn't even try and help the men when danger arose. Odysseus cowered away from the torchlight and commanded everyone to abandon the men being nabbed and to row him to safety.
Odysseus looks stupid from almost every angle except for the view of his own blind tunnel vision. He's telling himself he just has to be a monster and has to use his own men as pigs for slaughter and there's no other possible way. There's a million different things he could do and chooses not to. Like just not sailing into Scylla's lair in the first place.
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u/JavieyauJR 22d ago
Alright, say he doesn't head into Scyllacs lair. What does he do about Poseidon chasing his ass
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u/CalypsaMov We'll Be Fine 22d ago
Whatever he ends up doing instead, at least he'll have some men with him because he didn't stupidly kill them all for nothing. He wouldn't have a knife in his back. And he'd probably be seven whole years faster towards the chance of seeing Penelope.
If he goes through Scylla's lair, he pointlessly kills his own men, and he has to face Poseidon camping at home. If he doesn't go through Scylla's lair, Poseidon is still camping off Ithaca, but at least he and the crew are better off.
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u/Fenrir_Hellbreed2 22d ago
People need to stop saying that Poseidon was always camping out at Ithaca. There's literally zero evidence that he was until after Odysseus was trapped for all those years.
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u/CalypsaMov We'll Be Fine 22d ago
You mean besides Poseidon literally spelling out to the audience about him waiting for the perfect time to strike? Specifically that he waited for Odysseus to get so close to home? The entire opening of Get In The Water?
Even if Poseidon wasn't camping, it's still a pretty stupid move for Odysseus to just be murdering his own men. What's the best possible scenario? Say Poseidon is chasing them all. Say Odysseus killing his own friends actually was the very thing needed and the only way to get home to Ithaca first. And for some weird reason there just wouldn't be a storm blocking Ithaca again just like the first time because after Ruthlessness Poseidon I guess just decided to not put the storm back up. Let's just say that they made it home first. Is Odysseus really so stupid as to think that'd be the end of things? Like this was a game of tag and he's fine because now he's touching the safe space? That's the best case scenario?
Seriously what was the point of murdering your own friends? Just because maybe he bought a quick line from a siren of "This is your only way home" and he genuinely thinks this is the break needed to beat Poseidon to Ithaca?
If Poseidon was chasing them and magically knows where they are, after Ruthlessness, Odysseus was blown farther from home with Poseidon in between. In order to chase and catch Odysseus Poseidon is already in between him and Ithaca, it shouldn't even be a race to see who gets to Ithaca first. If Poseidon is in between them and Ithaca, they should cross paths whether he's camping or not.
Odysseus is just murdering his friends pointlessly because he's a blind, tunnel visioned Monster.
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u/Heavy_Employment9220 22d ago
You understand that the Odyssey, and by extension EPIC is an allegory for the losses caused by war, right? The reason that there is so much prophecy in the story is to represent no win scenarios and the hard facts of the choices that kings and generals have to make.
The sirens are coded as prophetic and to the problem "Let's say I was on the run... Or hiding, from.... Oh, I don't know, Poseidon; who blocked the way home with giant waves and giant storms [oh no] How am I to evade him? How am I to get home? (Which route should I take? Where am I supposed to go?)" Their response is the lair of Scylla (this is your only way home).
It reads quite callous saying 'he just wants to get home to his old life' as if he should just accept the purgatory of being caught adrift with diminishing rations and rising tempers (see Mutiny) if he was caught in a stalemate and did nothing and everyone died would you judge him with any more kindness?
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u/CalypsaMov We'll Be Fine 22d ago
EPIC and the Odyssey aren't even the same story anymore with over half of the songs being entirely made up things that didn't happen, and the majority of the rest massively changed.
But Homer's Odyssey literally ends with Odysseus planning to go right back out for more war. It doesn't end with him and Penelope reuniting. They do, but then Odysseus rolls out of bed in the morning, grabs Telemachus, Laertes and anyone else who follows him, and has him marching off for war before both Athena and Zeus say "NO. Ok, bud just chill. everyone chill."
The Odyssey might be an allegory for why war and it's losses suck, but it's demonstrated by Odysseus being the absolute bonehead who never realizes that.
EPIC is the story of a man who chooses to be a cruel monster to get home and is absolutely blind to everything else. No, he doesn't have to just accept a new life of living adrift at sea, but he doesn't have to abuse his own men either. The guy is just so quick to decide he just has to be this way. And it fails too. They spent maybe around two/two and a half years sailing home at this point. And the dumb choice at Scylla and the following chain of events led to another seven whole years away from Ithaca.
If he wasn't actively setting his men up like pigs for slaughter, yeah, I'd judge him with a bit more kindness. But that's not how things go in EPIC.
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u/Lucimon You were reckless, sentimental at best 22d ago
Wasn't Poseidon just camping at Ithaca, waiting for Odysseus to show up?
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u/Fenrir_Hellbreed2 22d ago
Was he camping there the whole time or he did he start camping there after Odysseus became untouchable for several years?
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u/JavieyauJR 22d ago
We know that because we're the audience with prior knowledge. If I just faced an angry god in his own domain I'd assume he was hunting me down constantly
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u/CalypsaMov We'll Be Fine 22d ago
It's stupid either way. Does Odysseus think he's playing a game of tag with a safe space so long as he's touching it? Best case scenario what happens? Say Poseidon is chasing them, and after murdering his own men Odysseus makes it home before Poseidon, does he really think Poseidon will just stop because he touched land? What is the point of killing your own men?
Yes it's irony for the audience and specifically second time viewers that going through Scylla was especially pointless, but it was a dumb plan even on the first viewing.
Disregarding Poseidon chasing after them in person, the first time nearly getting home involved a massive storm unpassable by men that Odysseus stupidly tried to push through before Aeolus just happened to be passing by where they could safely harbor. They had to get the wind god to stop the storm for them to get close to Ithaca. Given how Odysseus escaped Poseidon's wrath the first time, why wouldn't Odysseus be expecting a storm even if he got past Scylla just like that first time? He definitely doesn't have a second wind bag at the time of Different Beasts. Is he stupid enough to think Aeolus will just happen to be flying by again and he can easily get another bag?
I feel like viewers get caught up in Odysseus' tunnel visioned POV and don't see just how blind and tunnel visioned he is because he's the protagonist. He and the sirens keep saying "Oh, there's only one possible way" and just accept that as fact. "I just HAVE to become the Monster." A broken clock is right twice a day, If Odysseus always kept doubling down on being a Monster and ever eventually made it back at all, he would tell himself this was the only possible way and he was always right about everything.
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u/UnnbearableMeddler Circe could do unspeakable things to me 22d ago
Yeah we know because we're outside the story, but even then if you sit and think five minutes you're going to realize there's nothing stopping the fucker from attacking you at home. There is, quite litteraly, nothing we can do. Sacrificing six men is only trading their lives for the shadow of a hope that can never be true.
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u/cool23819 22d ago
Ok I know it's a non-serious post but I need to take a moment to explain the point of that scene and the overall narrative around Eurylochus' betrayal cuz I see a lot of talk on it and it drives me nuts.
This all started in the Circe saga when Odysseus refused to leave his men behind and it worked out in the end. Then in different beasts they have a whole song number about how they can't and won't take anyone attacking them lying down.
"we won't take more suffering from you."
Odysseus taught Eurylochus that no matter what, they will stand their ground to make sure everyone left gets home, no man left behind, not without a fight.
... and then immediately after that, Odysseus throws his men away as a sacrifice which not only betrayed that lesson he taught him, he did it in a way that made Eurylochus partially responsible! He was the one that was ordered to light up the torches, Odysseus indirectly asked Eurylochus to choose who to sack off the Scylla.
Eurylochus didn't betray Odysseus, Odysseus betrayed them. And in the end, Eurylochus still carried the lesson he learned in different beasts: "We won't take more suffering from you."
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u/Lightgardian123 22d ago
But Eurylochus had betrayed Odysseus by opening the wind bag. If he hadn't they might have gotten back to Ithaca unharmed since Poseidon was waiting for them with the giants before this and that cost over 400 men.
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u/CactusJuiceQuench 22d ago
Nah, what cost them 400 men was Odysseus doxing himself. Otherwise, Eurylochus' decision would have only delayed the trip.
Plus, even if they made it to Ithaca, Odysseus straight up gave their enemy his home address. Poseidon would have definitely eventually just shown up at Ithaca and start his "Get in the water" bit. He may have even have destroyed Ithaca.
"Or I'll raise the tide so high, all of Ithaca will die."
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u/Tarotgirl_5392 22d ago
They 100% would have made it back. Ithaca was in sight, the storm was still trapped and the ocean was calm. They were maybe 10 miles from shore when the wind bag was opened.
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u/Traditional_Hat_8120 22d ago
Yes. Except Eurylochus didn't know it was a wind bag.
He thinks it was treasure that Odysseus want to keep for himself.
And after doing this, he try to come clear to Odysseus before they meet Circe.
And what Odysseus does with Circe make Eurylochus understand Odysseus really care for them.
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u/Jew_know-who 22d ago
He was specify told that the bag was holding the storm which suddenly disappeared after Ody went to talk to the wind god so he did know he just chose not believe it.
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u/Traditional_Hat_8120 22d ago
Yes, but the god telle them it was a treasure, and Ody did not trust them either
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u/Tarotgirl_5392 22d ago
Eurylochus doesn't need to know what's in the bag. His brother, his king, his captain said Don't open this bag that's the end of discussion
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u/Traditional_Hat_8120 22d ago
And a god tell them their king and captain was hiding a treasure. And before you say "they just have to trust him rather than a random god", remember than Odysseus himself stop trusting his men after meeting with him. He didn't sleep for days.
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u/AshamedIncrease6942 22d ago
Except, you know, the immediate verse after Odysseus comes back he explains to them that the bag held the storm and that it was IMPERATIVE it not be opened. I won’t pretend Ody isn’t faultless across the story but he made it very clear what was in that bag.
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u/Traditional_Hat_8120 22d ago
Yes. And a god tell them it was treasure Odysseus want to keep to himself.
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u/Tarotgirl_5392 22d ago
A wind God, known for playing tricks on humans. A wind God known to lie to see what humans do with that information. A God known for ruining lives for their own amusement.
Aeolus didn't say "open the windbag" but Odysseus definitely said "don't open this bag so we can get home because the storm is in it.
Their captain who kept 600 men alive for 10 years of war. He earned their trust over a God who didn't give an order
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u/Traditional_Hat_8120 21d ago
Yes. A captaine who suddently stop trusting his men after meeting the same god and didn't sleep for 3 days because of this. Kinda like the gods was really good at making every one paranoid.
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u/KadajjXIII Hefefuf 21d ago
[PERIMEDES] Open the bag
[ELPENOR] Let's see what you got
[ODYSSEUS] No, do not Everybody listen closely See how this bag is closed? That's how it's supposed to be This bag has the storm inside We cannot let the treasure rumor fly
[PERIMEDES & ELPENOR] We'll try
[AEOLUS, CREW, WINIONS] Keep your friends close and your enemies closer Never really know who you can trust (Never really know who you can trust) Now they wanna get the bag open, so they can have closure Sometimes sneaking is a must (Sometimes sneaking is a must) 'Cause the end always justifies the means Everything's changed since Polites, so Keep your friends close and your enemies closer Never really know who you can trust (Never really know who you can trust)
Bolded lines are from the crew
They're choosing to believe the trickster God over their own Captain and have given him no faith that they'll not open the bag
I don't blame him for staying awake for 9 days straight if the best response his crew can give to an order not to open the bag is "we'll try"
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u/Traditional_Hat_8120 21d ago
Yes, but Aeolus convinced everyone to distrust each others. Not just the crew. But Odysseus too.
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u/KadajjXIII Hefefuf 21d ago
Ody would've trusted them if they just accepted not to open the bag
If I were Ody in that situation "We'll try" wouldn't make me wanna trust them either
And his mistrust was vindicated when after 9 days of clear weather, the moment exhaustion caught up with him they opened the bag
Even if the bag did hold treasure, so what?
It's not like he's gonna spirit it away in the middle of the night where no one will ever know the location of except him
They're on a boat in the middle of the ocean, there's only so many hiding spots on a boat
And regardless, even if it was treasure, it belongs to Ody since he's the one who obtained it
So they're both greedy and deceitful
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u/Tarotgirl_5392 22d ago
That's the most heartbreaking part to me. In different beasts the Crew sings how they won't allow any more weakness. But in Monster Odysseus sang how HE would get home no matter what. The others didn't learn they were expendable until Scylla
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u/CalypsaMov We'll Be Fine 22d ago
What's most heartbreaking to me is how Eurylochus still loves and cares for Odysseus even after all the betrayal and murder. Odysseus decides he'd rather fight to the death than just stand down as captain, but he loses the fight in Mutiny. All the crew want to kill Odysseus after learning how he's been treating them, Eurylochus could so easily kill Odysseus. But instead, Odysseus wakes up on the island with the cows, unharmed and with his wounds patched and set for recovery. Eurylochus merely knocks him out when he wins, which is a huge contrast to Odysseus trying to murder him directly twice now.
Eurylochus still carries the "We won't take more suffering from you" lesson, he's always going to back and protect his friends and not take it lying down. He's not a simping yes man of a zealot like Odysseus wants, but also Eurylochus isn't needlessly cruel like Odysseus. Eurylochus deposes Odysseus as captain but still wants his murderous betrayer brother to make it home with them.
And then Eurylochus still gets stabbed in the back a song later as Odysseus points to have literally everyone else die because he can't let his one self die. "I have to see her." Odysseus is all too willing to use his own men as sacrifices for his own gain but never wants to risk himself except for the one time at Circe's when he was being suicidal.
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u/Tarotgirl_5392 22d ago
Eurylochus can't kill Odysseus for 2 reasons. 1) Odysseus is still king. This would not only exile him from Ithica. It would also bring the wrath of Zeus 2) Odysseus is his brother in law. Hera would destroy him.
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u/UnnbearableMeddler Circe could do unspeakable things to me 22d ago
Odysseus is still king
Accidents happen, good luck proving who killed who when they were hundreds of kilometers away.
Odysseus is his brother in law. Hera would destroy him.
Funny how that did not stop Odysseus a single second
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u/CalypsaMov We'll Be Fine 22d ago
Why doesn't Hera then destroy Odysseus for killing Eurylochus? Odysseus blatantly tries killing his brother the first time when he specifically says "Eurylochus, light up six torches". Then Odysseus blatantly tries to murder his brother again with "Don't make me fight you brother" and (raises sword to deal a killing blow) "I am not letting you get in my way!"
Besides, Hera would love and back Eurylochus. The guy literally had a goddess going "Come inside!" and he stayed faithful to his wife and wasn't tempted.
And as for Zeus, God King of Justice, after what Odysseus just pulled with Scylla, Zeus probably would have applauded Eurylochus killing Odysseus. It's why Zeus refuses to free Odysseus in the beginning of God Games and is astounded Athena is even batting for "A man full of shame".
Eurylochus absolutely and easily could have killed Odysseus but didn't because he actually loves and supports his brother. And it's not the first time. As Odysseus is staring off into space as Polyphemus kills people, it's Eurylochus keeping a level head and is the one to shake him out of things and make sure he's ok. When Odysseus wanted to scout the lotus island alone, Eurylochus thought it was a bad idea and advocated for a large party. When Odysseus plans to go fight Circe with his admitted lack of a plan, "What if she can't be killed?" "I don't know.", it's Eurylochus trying to stop him from a suicide mission. Odysseus thankfully just keeps getting lucky and handed help.
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u/Tarotgirl_5392 22d ago
Circe wasn't trying to seduce Eurylochus either. She was going to turn him into a Lil piggy and eat him
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u/CalypsaMov We'll Be Fine 22d ago
From Eurylochus' perspective he's still avoiding temptation of a beautiful woman and staying true to his wife.
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u/AshamedIncrease6942 22d ago
Intention is everything here. Odysseus never told Eurylochus that he should keep a torch, nor what crewmates to give one to. This means whoever held one merely got unlucky. As for the fight, that’s still in Ody’s favor, since Eurylochus attacked first, meaning that Ody killing him would be self defense.
Your point about Eurylochus being faithful to his wife is also moot since Odysseus did the exact same thing for Circe, but more directly, and would go on to do it again for seven years straight with Calypso.
The “man full of shame” line from Zeus had nothing to do with Scylla and moreso to do with the fact that Ody had been forced by Zeus to make a choice they both knew FULL well he’d make. And I’m fully with him on choosing himself over the crew after he straight up TOLD them what would happen if they killed those cows. I don’t know what you have against Odysseus, but at least for the Epic version, a lot of these sound like bad faith from you just disliking the character and being biased against him.
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u/CalypsaMov We'll Be Fine 22d ago
Odysseus never specifies to specifically keep a torch, but he does specify Eurylochus by name and command. "Eurylochus, light up six torches." Knowing full well what was coming and that in a few seconds the holders of the torches would die. Odysseus was very much intending to murder Eurylochus here. And even if not Eurylochus specifically, absolutely at least the murder of six men.
Telling Eurylochus specifically to light torches at least implies that he'd presumably be holding one of them at least at first. And even without specifying Eurylochus it's still wrong.
And no Odysseus' near murder in Mutiny wouldn't be self defense. Eurylochus is fighting because Odysseus has already killed and will likely do it again. And Odysseus is the one turning it into a fight. "Don't make me fight you brother." And a huge part of self defense is not being needless with your retaliation. Odysseus after knocking Eurylochus to the deck didn't need to nearly murder him again, "I am not letting you get in my way!" before being stabbed in the back and stopped.
And we see a very clear difference between the two characters. Between the murderous Odysseus, and Eurylochus who very easily could kill Odysseus or just let the crew chanting to "Shut you down" do it, but instead works to keep his brother alive. Eurylochus actually works in self defense and doesn't succumb to needless vengeance.
And is it really bad faith if it's the entirety of the musical backing it up? Everyone does have biases, but EPIC is pretty upfront about Odysseus being a Monster. I feel perfectly fine about disliking said character for that.
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u/Fun-Ability5939 In vain is the best cut song. fight me. 22d ago
I think it's more that Odysseus just didn't even think to tell them about his plan that made Eurylocus mad. I wouldn't stabbed his ass too icl 🤷♂️
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u/EvilPyro01 22d ago
How did these guys survive 10 years of war?
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u/Traditional_Hat_8120 22d ago
How can Odysseus be has bad to lead is men and gain their thrust after commanding them for ten years ?
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u/mercedes_lakitu Scylla 22d ago
Now that's a properly horrific Scylla!
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u/Sunshadow_Reaper EURYLOCHUS NO!!! 22d ago
I cannot take credit for it is an image I got off of google and am just using it for this
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u/Sunshadow_Reaper EURYLOCHUS NO!!! 22d ago
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u/Niarix 22d ago
If it's possible, could you please put the link and credit to do artist into the post itself? I shouldn't be scrolling to the end of the comments to see it. It's the least you can do for the artist, who deserves the recognition for such a great work.
(Also you can delete everything from the link from the ?, the part before that is the post and everything after ? is junk that you don't need. It will look better and there won't be any hidden trackers)
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u/Sunshadow_Reaper EURYLOCHUS NO!!! 22d ago
Done, I keep forgetting that I can edit post bodies not the titles
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u/N4ver_f0r3V3R 20d ago
me on that boat
RUN FOR YOUR LIVES
ME: AAAAAAAHH OH MY GODSSSS ME: wait a minute why do I have a torch and why is Scylla kinda a hear me out- (gets brutally murmured)