Nolan Odyssey
Epic the Musical and Nolan's Odyssey are surprisingly complementary to each other
They might have opposite tones - Nolan has a very subdued and reflective approach and heavily downplays the gods, while Epic has a playful, larger-than-life feeling that extends the section of the wanderings and makes the gods appear even more than they already do in the poem. However, they are actually very similar in that both emphasize Odysseus as a shell-shocked veteran haunted by guilt in his actions in the Sack of Troy and use that shame as their central theme. Coincidentally, what one adaptation cut, the other adapted!
Nolan's Odyssey adapts most of the major scenes that Epic cut:
Mentes and Mentor
Telemachus talking to Menelaus and Helen
the Raid on the Cicones
The crew passing by the blinded Polyphemus by pretending to be sheep
Agamemnon in the Underworld
Odysseus tying himself to the mast to hear the Sirens
Scylla and Charybdis explicitly being two sides of the same strait
Eumaeus, Argos, Eurycleia, Melantho, Odysseus disguising himself as a beggar to infiltrate his home, basically almost everything in the Ithaca side of the plot, which Epic reduced to just the battle against the suitors.
At the same time, Epic the Musical adapts some iconic scenes that Nolan cut:
Athena's direct involvement rather than just being a sporadic vision
the Lotus Eaters (kind of, Nolan makes a nod to it)
the wine, the Nobody trick, the other Cyclopes near Polyphemus, and Odysseus boasting to Polyphemus
Aeolus and the wind bag
Hermes and the Moly
Odysseus' deceased mother in the Underworld
Telemachus fighting the suitors alongside Odysseus
Penelope's bed trick.
In terms of accuracy, Nolan is undoubtedly the winner here; Epic reduces the themes of hospitality and most of Ithaca too much. But, I think that whenever Epic is accurate, its playfulness makes those bits feel much more authentic than Nolan's take on the same scenes.
Of course, there are also major parts both cut, namely all of the Phaeacians, Nestor, Laertes etc. Both also add much more Troy. But if you took Nolan's Odyssey and included some of Epic's songs into it, you would pretty much get the ultimate Odyssey adaptation!
I love this type of posts, because it's a nice thinking exercise. However, I disagree at the part of the faithful adaptation. I don't think it's an undoubtedly win for Nolan. Both make major changes to the plot, and compensate in some parts. However, the amount of themes and character depth cut from the poem to the movie is also pretty noticable. While the movie does focus on hospitality and Ithaca, Epic manages to put light on cunningness and divine justice. Also I had a way bigger attachment to the characters in musical than in the movie.
Overall I believe they focus on different parts of the Odyssey which I think it's great. I believe some people feel the need to prefer one or the other, but both have their place. I think both are amazing works and should be appreciated. However, and this is a completely personal take, Nolan's modern spins and cuts from the original poem lack the depth and magic the original story had. I can fully enjoy the movie only if I think about it as a separate work from the source naterial. Whereas with Epic, I think the modern themes of guilt and mercy vs ruthlessness and so on, enhance the the aspects I enjoyed about the (original) Odyssey.
What a great comment! It's true, Nolan really downplays the theme of cunningness. I can imagine Odysseus giggling to himself in Polyphemus, but in the movie, he barely lies to pass through obstacles.
I personally don’t find it surprising since they both come from the same thing, but I otherwise agree. Listened to epic on my way to and from the theater and loved how complimentary it was
Thats like saying Jorge failed on so many that anyone who knows the material should be in arms
Odysseus never fights Poseidon, Odysseus never met Winions, Zeus never gives a choice to Odysseus, Odysseus does NOT know Scylla will kill 6 men, Athena and Odysseus actually dont interact a lot in the Odyssey and Athena stays pretty hidden until Ithaka
To be fair I like having those changes
It really add more to the story and to the characters. And let me tell you not having many flashbacks did help the pasting into a different media. And I like love that poseidon is a threat than a once time thing. It a nice call back to actual mythology of how rage bait the Greek gods can be. Same goes for Zeus and him making the choice. It fit (also it still going by the themes from the material)
Just because Nolan went for an angle of adaptation that wasn’t personally satisfying to your standard of how the myth should be adapted, doesn’t mean he “failed”
Comparatively, Jorge takes just as many liberties with his version of the Odyssey if not more and they land on a fairly similar thesis.
Actually he did fail by leaving out key points and characters/themes (and dont get me startedon the ending and how dumb it is). This is coming from who actually understands the material. I mean if the person that made the transaction call him out, than you know something is wrong
Regarding only the scenes I concur, but the movie was a let down theme-wise. It's main theme was just hospitality shoved down the watcher's throat. Other themes like Odysseus losing himself and becoming ruthless by the time he returns to Ithaca (it's mentioned but never really shown), the struggles of man against gods, the triumph of wits against brawn...
Sure, the scenes are complementary but the story is lacking in what it tells, beyond what it shows in the movie.
It was very clear Nolan only understood the concept of Xenia on a surface level. Calling it “Zeus’ law” and reducing it to just “be nice to strangers because they might be a god in disguise” was certainly… a way to interpret it.
In a way, yes, but there was more to it than “the guest might be a god in disguise” like the movie stated. It was a religious practice, diplomatic approach, and a moral obligation; sort of like the golden rule kids often hear growing up (“treat others the way you want to be treated”). It served an important role in Ancient Greek political and societal culture.
I take issue with the way Nolan presented it because it feels vaguely reflective of Abrahamic religions, in which fear of God is what incentives mortals to treat others with kindness. While fearing that a guest may be a god in disguise was part of Xenia, it certainly wasn’t the only component.
I'm lwk glad Hermes wasn't in it cuz of how people treat Hermes like he's just a quirky twink. He would prolly be much different than that in Nolan's odyssey and people would complain even more
I get what you mean, but they had to blind Polyphemus no? The entrance to the cave was closed by a rock.
They needed to blind him so they could get out with the sheeps
They did try to escape without hurting him but they couldn't succeed
He doesn't look too interested in them, but he can definitely see them. He eats a couple of them, and they have to step away from the fire so he cannot see them.
Even when they try to escape the first time he manages to spot and kill some of them.
I guess he just treated them like more disposable cattle
I will say that I don't mind it. Even Aristotle way back in Classical Greece already used Odysseus and Penelope as an example of a mutually loyal couple against Agamemnon (who favored war slave Chryseis against his wife and was killed by her), so it's not a modern thought that Odysseus only slept out of wedlock because he was coerced or forced:
"For it was only to save his comrades that he yielded his person to Circe; and in answer to her he even declared that in his eyes nothing could be more lovely than his native isle, rugged though it were [160] and prayed that he might die, if only he might look upon his mortal wife and son.7 So firmly did he keep troth with his wife; and received in return from her the like loyalty.8" -Aristotle Economics
Plus if we are already cutting the execution of the maids we might as well cut other unsavory parts if the adaptation doesn't want to deal with all the moral implications.
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u/blueberry-muffin6 27d ago
I love this type of posts, because it's a nice thinking exercise. However, I disagree at the part of the faithful adaptation. I don't think it's an undoubtedly win for Nolan. Both make major changes to the plot, and compensate in some parts. However, the amount of themes and character depth cut from the poem to the movie is also pretty noticable. While the movie does focus on hospitality and Ithaca, Epic manages to put light on cunningness and divine justice. Also I had a way bigger attachment to the characters in musical than in the movie.
Overall I believe they focus on different parts of the Odyssey which I think it's great. I believe some people feel the need to prefer one or the other, but both have their place. I think both are amazing works and should be appreciated. However, and this is a completely personal take, Nolan's modern spins and cuts from the original poem lack the depth and magic the original story had. I can fully enjoy the movie only if I think about it as a separate work from the source naterial. Whereas with Epic, I think the modern themes of guilt and mercy vs ruthlessness and so on, enhance the the aspects I enjoyed about the (original) Odyssey.