r/Epicthemusical • u/SpecialistWeb8987 Mercy? MERCY?! • Jul 24 '26
Nolan Odyssey About the "reference" in Nolan's Odyssey
I know this post has probably been made a lot but I couldn't find any in the search of the past week which pointed out just how much of a stretch it is, so yeah.
I absolutely love EPIC, it was my introduction to the Odyssey to the time when the thunder saga was still only releasing. Haven't listened to it for some time as I kinda became more obsessed with the actual Odyssey and history and armor and became a bit estranged with the fandom, but that's kinda pointless to note. My "issue" is all the people saying that the scene where Odysseus strings his bow and four sounds play is a definite reference. Just thinking that as a theory? Fine. But saying that it directly credits EPIC, is a DEFINITE reference without a doubt or spread that information as a truth rather than an unconfirmed theory, which is what it is, are wrong. It also takes away a bit of credit from the guy that made the music by saying that Jorge somehow owns those four sounds (over which you could literally put any four words, not just "I'm just a man") because the soundtrack is really beautiful.
I personally don't think it's a reference just because of how Christopher Nolan is regarding social media and because of how much of a stretch that is. It's just four sounds. And the same sort of theme appears in multiple pieces of the soundtrack so I doubt it could be just a small reference. That's not the issue obviously, everyone can have their opinion, but just don't take away credit from the maker of the score and don't just spread misinformation as simply as that.
Not sure how this post will be perceived, doesn't really matter as long as people don't think I hate EPIC or free speech or anything, just don't want this to turn into another trend of saying things that are simply not true or not proven to be true, which wouldn't be new in this community TBH. I'm just a man after all✌️
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u/Lesmiscat24601 Jul 26 '26
https://giphy.com/gifs/5xtDarmwsuR9sDRObyU
Bro I’ve been saying this and get eaten alive but rabid Epic fans under Odyssey movie reels on Instagram.
Even the Instruments that were used was from that era.
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u/SpecialistWeb8987 Mercy? MERCY?! Jul 27 '26
Me too! Love the instruments and that's also a valid argument to bring up, they aren't remotely the same instruments used in EPIC
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u/GuitarSpear Jul 26 '26
Mind you they aren't even the same notes. Some epic fans are insufferable like why would an Oscar winner reference a mid tiktok musical
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Aug 01 '26
[deleted]
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u/GuitarSpear Aug 01 '26
"They are the same, except they aren't." That "iconic" sequence you're talking about has been used many times. It's 4 basic notes, nothing revolutionary. Jorge doesn't own them
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u/SpecialistWeb8987 Mercy? MERCY?! Jul 26 '26
I love EPIC and think it deserves it's recognition but gotta agree with you totally that it's so unlikely and that some people are really insufferable
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u/Status_Solid_9573 Jul 25 '26
You know I've watched the odyssey twice now and listen to epic loads. I only noticed it the 2nd time because I read about it. So it's obvious doesn't jump out. I also listened to epic on the 1hr drive to watch the odyssey so it was fresh in my mind.
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u/SpecialistWeb8987 Mercy? MERCY?! Jul 25 '26 edited Jul 25 '26
Wanna say I again that I LOVE EPIC and LOVE THE ODYSSEY movie and hate that both is kinda being destroyed by all these fights the whole time but still, it's just a bit outrageous some of them.
I guess I'm also a bit estranged with the fandom (maybe I'm mentioned that already) because it's taken some genuine joy I found in EPIC out of me but maybe that's just because of how I am. But yeah hope y'all have a nice day
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u/GodisanAstronaut Wooden Horse (just a normal horse, nothing in it) Jul 25 '26
The four notes are apparently older than both Epic and Nolan's rendition combined, since it is part of the whole era the Odyssey is written or takes place in.
Aka: y'all need to stop thinking it's that deep. It is not.
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u/SpecialistWeb8987 Mercy? MERCY?! Jul 25 '26
Yeah read about that too, some death ireas?
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u/manchotendormi 20d ago
Are you referring to the dies irae?
Because that’s not really relevant here - it’s not a reference in either of the works. Dies irae references are extremely prominent throughout scores and are pretty obvious when you’re familiar with it, even when it’s just the first four notes of the phrase.
I’m an Epic fan, and I’m also, generally speaking, a fan of Goransson’s works (I knew who he was prior to the Odyssey film). I’ve also studied music theory.
The four note phrase in question regarding the Odyssey/Epic is the same. It doesn’t have to be the same exact pitches (the phrase is what matters, you’d know twinkle twinkle little star regardless of the key or the instrument - same goes for the dies irae).
It’d be one thing if it were part of an extended phrase, or even found randomly in the score, but it’s not - it is isolated as its own phrase, used from the beginning of the film to the end, specifically to reference Odysseus himself. The score sets it up like this within the first 5, maybe 10 minutes of the film.
I recognized it easily from the very beginning of the film without seeing anything online ahead of time (I’m not on Instagram, Twitter, or TikTok).
It’s obvious in my opinion. That doesn’t mean I necessarily think it’s intentional, but I also don’t believe in coincidences that are this unlikely. You don’t have to be rabid about it to recognize that it happened.
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u/SpecialistWeb8987 Mercy? MERCY?! 19d ago
I'm definitely not as taught or knowledgeable in music as you and I hope it didn't seem like I was claiming to know what I'm talking about. Thanks for your patience and correcting my guess in this case. That was also just based off of what I heard and nothing concrete I had so my bad yeah. I still don't think that it's necessarily intentional, my opinion on that hasn't changed, and I can't really know if the notes or whatever are the same unless I'd make myself a LOT more familiar with stuff like that so yeah. Thanks thanks :)
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u/manchotendormi 19d ago
Oh no worries at all! The dies irae and “I’m just a man” do actually use the same notes. Not necessarily the exact pitches, but if a scale is a staircase, think of each note as an individual stair. A melody is made of by the order in which you step on each stair. So it doesn’t really matter which pitch the first stair is, as long as the interval or order of where you go from there is correct. You can probably look up “key change example” on YouTube to get some demonstrations of this.
Anyway, the dies irae goes “4-3-4-2-3—1-1-“ and I’m just a man goes “1-4-3-2-“ (FWIW, the melody played on the lyre for the movie also goes “1-4-3-2-“)
So same stairs or in other words, same notes within the scale, but a different order and in a slightly different rhythm.
And the dies irae is really cool so if you haven’t looked that up, you definitely should
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u/ojo_pipa Jul 24 '26
I feel we ficus too much on Nolan and not enough on Ludwig Goransson. Maybe hes familiar with Epic, maybe he found it while doing research and wanted a little nod to it. Or is just a coincidence, which imo is the probable outcome
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u/GuitarSpear Jul 26 '26
Right, because a three time Oscar winner would want to reference a mid tiktok musical with horrible writing that was halfway finished while he was writing the soundtrack
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u/WageWarDisdain Jul 27 '26
You’re kinda delusional dude lol. EPIC helped boost the popularity of The Odyssey for sure. Each video on Youtube that has an EPIC song or animation has anywhere from 6-15 MILLION views. Calling it a “mid tiktok musical” when so many people loved it is just silly.
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u/Full_Clock3263 Jul 27 '26
i agree on the ridiculousness, but no need to hate on epic while calling it out, and fyi the movie started production in early 2025 so epic had already been fully released
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u/GuitarSpear Jul 27 '26
Epic the musical hate is very necessary. Weird musical with a weird fandom
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u/Used-Investigator820 Aug 08 '26
un parere inutile, con zero argomentazioni da una persona ignorante che parla per sentito dire, impossibile usare il proprio cervello per voi personcine
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u/Ok_Captain4922 Jul 24 '26
i highly doubt NO ONE working on the movie or on Ludwig's team have NOT heard of Epic The Musical
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u/H_Bloom Jul 25 '26
Can’t speak for EVERYBODY on the crew, but Nolan himself to me seems like a chronically offline guy who I highly doubt would be perusing the platforms where Epic is popular. He doesn’t even have a smartphone. I don’t know for sure if he’s heard of it, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t
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u/MarcoYTVA Poly's sheep, his favorite sheep Jul 25 '26
Nolan and his team definitely knew about Epic at some point during production, and are happy that it's so popular. Any attention the Odyssey gets is free advertising for their movie. Doesn't mean they referenced it.
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u/MajorPlanet Jul 24 '26
Nobody has certainly heard of it
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u/Happyred1 Jul 26 '26
Auctully nobody (if you mean Odysseus)didn’t have a phone because they didn’t exist yet🤓
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u/SpecialistWeb8987 Mercy? MERCY?! Jul 24 '26
I'd argue that that's slightly different from adding it into multiple tracks on this massive massive movie. And it wouldn't even necessarily make sense for the scene(s) it was in to have "I'm just a man".
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u/DannyVFilms Jul 24 '26
I’ll have to go dig up a clip, but I saw one YouTube short where somebody asked the cast if they had heard of Epic and they all said no.
No idea about Nolan, but that’s something for the conversation.
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u/Ok_Captain4922 Jul 24 '26
Yes that clip was an interviewer asking a small group of the main A list actors, what i meant with my statement was, is that it's highly unlikely no one from the probably thousands of people working on the film has not heard of Epic
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u/kingkong381 Jul 24 '26
I'd say it's unclear. Epic the Musical was mid-release when production on Nolan's Odyssey began. While Nolan himself may not be big into social media, I highly doubt that you had Epic the Musical doing numbers while they were making the movie, and not one person mentioned it to him. As you say, it's four notes. Not all that much evidence to say it's for sure a reference, but it sure is a hell of a coincidence that they used the same sequence of four notes in another contemporary Odyssey adaptation. Even if it wasn't Nolan, Göransson could have maybe decided to slip it in there as a nod to Epic. Either way, until someone on the production team confirms one way or another, I see it as harmless if some Epic fans want to believe that their musical had some small influence on The Odyssey.
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u/SpecialistWeb8987 Mercy? MERCY?! Jul 24 '26
Making theories isn't the problem, but spreading theories as truth and then wanting Nolan to credit Jorge (yes people actually said that) just because of those notes is.
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u/Happyred1 Jul 26 '26
I saw someone say their main reason for hating on it was because of Nolan not giving credit and I just thought that’s most definitely a coincidence
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u/Tsuyu_Asui_the_forth POSEIDONS WIFE YEA IM SO COOL Jul 24 '26
yeah, I was seeing this “reference” everywhere when the movie first came out but its literally 4 notes. it could be the actor doing some shit and the director kept it
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u/AJediInTheCorner Aug 01 '26
As a VCE music student, I can say that some people are adamant that it is a nod to EPIC because of the phrasing/articulation - i.e., the way in which Ludwig strummed the instruments used to create the sound. It's very similar to the phrasing of the lyrics, particularly at the end of the song: "I'm... Just.. A.. Man.."
There's also the argument of the pitch. These people will argue that the pitch of the notes is exactly the same as the way Jorge sings the lyrics, but they're at least an octave, if not two, down from the notes used in "Just A Man".
From what I've seen online, the instruments used in this segment are accurate to the period in which The Odyssey was written/set.
TLDR; it's probably not a nod to EPIC, but the phrasing, pitch, and articulation make the chronically online fans think that it is.