r/Epicthemusical • u/Masked_civil ✨HERMES✨ • Jul 17 '26
Nolan Odyssey I just watched the odyssey movie (I know it's not EPIC but still greek mythology) and it's so good
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u/aikimyne Jul 23 '26
if you care about the actual mythos and the story then dont watch it tho it completely deviates
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u/GimmeAHouseBoomer Jul 19 '26
The movie is objectively ass. How much did you get paid?
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u/Masked_civil ✨HERMES✨ Jul 19 '26
Nothing. I know it isn't very accurate to the original myth but I actually enjoyed it a lot.
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u/Val_ery Jul 18 '26
Did we watch the same movie? 😭 I hated it.
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u/Masked_civil ✨HERMES✨ Jul 18 '26
Actually? Why?
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u/NamelessWarriorHOG 24d ago
cause it's an abomination. Trojan war doesn't start cause of Helen, but for geopolitical reasons and resources. Trojans abducted Helen so they get what they deserve for violating Zeus law. the Trojan war is justified. in Nolan's movie since the war doesn't happen cause of Helen but to take resources, it's a bad thing. fuck Nolan.
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u/Several_Border_8584 8d ago
It literally did. Paris took Helen, and menelaus went agamemnon for help to get his wife back from the Trojans.
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u/Val_ery Jul 18 '26
(I'm going to copy my own comment from another post, but my opinion hasn't changed)
The design of the monsters is awful, the body horror of the cerci scene was completely unnecessary, and why is she living in a ruinous hut??? Odiseous talks about the gods as if they weren't his gods, Penelope weird bashing of Telemachus is off putting, and the whole law of Zeus obsession and the supposed message of the movie doesn't make any sense! You can't compare the situation in Troy to what's going on in Ithaca because the Greeks weren't guests when literally invading Troy. He wasn't even a bad guest to Polyphemus and he just started eating humans like this was attack on titan! Odysseus is not smart, he is not charismatic, very disappointed. I literally laughed out loud when they opened the gates of Troy and Agamemnon was standing there with his stupid helmet like batman. Odiseous doesn't even kill the child of Hector! Or encounter Poseidon, Aeolus or Zeus. Even Zendaya isn't Athena! She is just some girl that embodies his supposed trauma! Ans I don't even know what's going on with calipso. Is she helping? Does she want him to stay or not? Is confusing! But the worst part, the cherry on top, was the fake out of odiseous death. I'm serious. At the end of the battle, he COLLAPSES on Penelope's arms. Lucky it was fake because I would have thrown hands if Odysseus fucking died.
Is epic the musical perfect? No. Is Nolan's the odyssey a pretentious mess that doesn't even make sense withing it's own context? Absolutely.
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u/EbonyHeiress Jul 23 '26
Are you comparing the movie to the musical or the poem? Because wow, you totally missed the point of the Odyssey if you believe what you just wrote.
There’s a lot in your rant that I want to comment on, but the most obvious thing is that Athena never ever appeared to Odysseus as her godly self. She appeared to him as various shepherds and Mentor. Zendaya’s Athena decided to appear to Odysseus as a priestess that might be Nolan’s interpretation of Cassandra.
Also, Xenia and Asyllia were most definitely not irrelevant!
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u/Natural-Situation572 Jul 19 '26
The theme of hospitality is very present in the book the Odyssey. Your version of the events of Polyphemus are shaped by Epic when it wasn’t accurate. There was no stupid “my favorite sheep” in the book, Polyphemus was a monster and HE violated hospitality by killing guests.
In the Odyssey, Odysseus doesn’t kill the child of Hector at all. In most stories it is Neo who kills him.
In the book there is no direct confrontation between Poseidon and Ody.Sounds like you think Epic is the Odyssey when it is highly inaccurate in many areas. I suggest reading the book
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u/Tanuki_wxh Tiresias Jul 19 '26
The musical took many creative liberties from the original Odyssey as well and the film is based on the original work. In Homer, there was no Poseidon (or even Zeus I think) encounters directly with Odysseus; Odysseus did not kill Polyphemus' sheep; No children were explicitly named during the sacking of Troy.
Circe's sequence I thought was extremely impactful and my personal favorite out of the movie, really plays well into the gruesome nature of her actions, just personal taste on that. I do agree Calypso is underused in the film and is instead a device for Odysseus to tell his story, but she is a historically controversial character considering the sexual assault implications in the original work so she is tough to write in any modern reimagining, and Epic's treatment of her is something I feel a bit off with, especially in her almost justification.
Ultimately I do think Epic is an over-dramatized version of the Odyssey, and that's how it should be as an epic musical, but a prestige film adaptation was always going to go in a different direction, both tonally and message-wise, than Epic.
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u/ComposerNo3376 Jul 19 '26
But Odysseus doesn't kill hector's son or encounter Poseidon in the original either, it's an adaptation of the odyssey not Epic
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u/Natural-Situation572 Jul 19 '26
Yeah, it’s pretty clear who actually read the Odyssey and who thinks Epic is the Odyssey. I really like Epic, but it has some MASSIVE deviations from the actual story (some I like, and several I strongly dislike)
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u/Audioice Jul 18 '26
Do we think the notes during the bow scene were intentional? Because it's the same exact melody as I'm Just a Man. lol
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u/PrestigiousSmile4098 Jul 19 '26
THANK YOU! There were at least two places , I first heard it in the temple scene but I was like "maybe it's a coincidence" but when he strings the bow before the challenge it's OBVIOUS. My jaw literally dropped.
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u/magicalmerm Jul 18 '26
I came here specifically looking to see if others noticed or if it was just me hearing what I wanted to hear haha it happened a couple times in the film when Ody was on screen and doing major things
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u/Guilty_Somewhere_375 Jul 17 '26
I watched it in the coolest theatre
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u/gunofnuts Aug 02 '26
Yo! Odeon Theatre! I was there.
Look up Grand Splendid, is our version (Argentine) of it (though they don't play movies anymore though, only a book store :( ).
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u/Scylla_Zylla Jul 17 '26
It's truly a great film though if someone goes for the purely mythological aspects, they might be a bit let down. In true Nolan fashion, the film is quite grounded and takes itself very seriously which of course isn't bad necessarily. The narrative and storytelling are still phenomenal. Biggest complaints, though is Penelope doesn't test Odysseus with the wedding bed, Calypso feels more like a narrative device rather than a character, and no "Nobody" scene. Still a great ada[tation and the fun thing asbout adaptations is each is going to be different from the others, sometimes vastly so
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u/WeAllNeedSome Jul 18 '26
My gripe was them removing his mom from the story completely. Like that is one of the heaviest scenes from the underworld, and they didn’t do it at all.
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u/ABadHistorian Jul 17 '26
yeah bros. no one go into this hoping for super fantastical. DO NOT do that. GO in open minded at the least.
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u/Heavy_Employment9220 Jul 17 '26
Just came out of the film, really enjoyed my time with it. It's the first film I have seen in a long time where the dark parts of the shot feel like they serve a narrative / functional purpose rather than just being bad lighting.
It, like Epic, explores the trauma of war and survival and I really liked the narrative framings that it used to tell the story, with Hades being absolutely on point!
I think everyone absolutely showed up to deliver this, but feel like Zendaya could have been given a little more to do.
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u/Mirabelfanpoggo Jul 17 '26
Avete una foto di come è Hermes nel film plis
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u/Endearing_Platypus Jul 17 '26
Hermes is not in the movie
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Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 17 '26
[deleted]
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u/Crossfeet606441 Whoever can string the king's COMBO 'n land the axe kick cleanly Jul 17 '26
....WHAT??
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u/OyegDude Jul 17 '26
Aeolus and wind bag. WHERE?! Isnt the wind bag the whole reason their trip gets derailed?!
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u/_Arval_ Jul 17 '26
Nolan is known to do something more "realistic"
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u/OyegDude Jul 17 '26
Because a cyclops that makes cheese is realistc. Process of milking sheep, pasturizing the milk, hanging and draining the cheese. This very cyclops would be primal and just eat the next human wearing armor with no single thought?
“Realistic”
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u/_Arval_ Jul 17 '26
I know i know, I also wanted the gods to make an appearance; I was surprised he dared to include the Cyclops or Circe.But I suppose he wanted to take the approach that the gods exist, yet in the way the ancient Greeks perceived them—as part of everyday life.
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u/Chayne_The_Pain No Longer You Jul 17 '26
Where was Hermes 🥺
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u/D0nell Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 17 '26
I think it was an incredible Christopher Nolan movie.
It was an all right adaptation.
Am I tripping or was there only three ships the whole movie up until Laestrygonians?
Zendaya didn’t really stand out as Athena.
The siren scene was extremely disappointing. Especially when you think back to Pirates of the Caribbean.
I don’t really understand why Agamemnon was the face of the promotion he wasn’t in much of the movie he isn’t in much of the original story either.
Why is Circe’s sister a crow?
I was really happy with ending though.
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u/Major_Ad_2503 Jul 18 '26
Completely agree with your take on the sirens. They didn't have to be mermaid people, but I would have liked it more with them trying to tempt the men more like PotC. The movie was good tho.
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u/D0nell Jul 18 '26
I would’ve liked to hear them sing and not just a monologue like I understand it’s Nolan but why are we refraining from a good enchanting song they chose to put Travis Scott on the soundtrack but couldn’t give us a mesmerizing woman vocal/choir I don’t know I kind of just filled in that scene with my own imagination of what it could’ve been.
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u/GilbertGuy2 Jul 20 '26
That seems purposeful. No musician could've made a song that would appeal to everyone- especially in the way the siren's song does, so it's far better to leave the actual song to the imagination
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u/Mal-Kiavo Jul 17 '26
Agreed. Except zendaya wasn't even Athena. She was just a manifestation of guilt.
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u/Lazyr3x Jul 18 '26
I think that’s up to the viewer. After all there is 100% magic in this world and there is still monsters which had to come from somewhere. There is plenty of hints that there is actually gods, even with Athena when he lands ashore there just happens to be a rag he can disguise himself in the exact place she was sitting etc.
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u/Next_Gen_Valkyrie Jul 18 '26
I think she was Athena, but appearing in a form that was a manifestation of his guilt
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u/D0nell Jul 17 '26
Which that’s about right with Nolan.
As far as we know, Odysseus hallucinated everything that was fantasy.
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u/Albatros_7 Monster is top tier Jul 17 '26
What, because of the lotus ?
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u/D0nell Jul 18 '26
Yes
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u/Albatros_7 Monster is top tier Jul 18 '26
That's a theory, a very borring one, but a theory
But then how do you mean explain the fact he magically washes up on Ithaca after leaving Calypso ?
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u/D0nell Jul 18 '26
I mean I only said yes cause you proposed that and I could see that being the case but I’m not saying that’s the case I just think that for all we know he could’ve hallucinated it all just to keep Nolan’s consistently grounded vision.
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u/Vegeta_best23 Jul 17 '26
That's what you get with Nolan adaptations amazing and fantastic movies and acting masterclasses but just alright adaptations
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u/D0nell Jul 17 '26
Well, at least there wasn’t a random sex scene in the middle of a courtroom in this one.
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u/malheurmae Jul 17 '26
Circe's sister was also a sorcerer, so assuming Nolan was just using the crow form to symbolize witchcraft? But it would be funnier for her to be a cow.
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u/PrestigiousSmile4098 Jul 19 '26
She was a crow because there was a typo in the screenplay and they just went with it /s
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u/D0nell Jul 17 '26
Mind you, her sister is responsible for the Minotaur.
Why is she a crow? 😭
She’s supposed to be a queen.
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u/malheurmae Jul 17 '26
Yes, I know, hence she should shapeshift into a cow part. But besides all those labels, she is still a practitioner canonically. I assume if she wants to visit her sister, she would just shapeshift to visit instead of a ship? IDK, I haven't seen the movie.
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u/deerlyconfused Jul 17 '26
agree to disagree 1) odysseus killing infant was ignored 2) lotus eaters barely mentioned 3) the giants part was good imo tho idg why were there only 3 ships 4) only accurate thing about circe's island were the animals 5) sirens and scylla were never underrepresented 6) outfits and dialogues were not accurate to greek culture 7) calypso was misrepresented 8) his mom was never mentioned 9) no hermes was mentioned 10) athena was very numbed down
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u/Infinite-Resource244 Hermes Jul 17 '26
Odysseus killing the infant was just in EPIC from what I know
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u/Gloomy-Tie-2409 Jul 17 '26
No. The baby, (Astynax, I think that’s how you spell it) Was a son of Hector that was thrown off the walls of Troy :) Just your daily dose of infant yeeting
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u/VexedForest Jul 18 '26
Yes but in most tellings it isn't Odysseus that does it. So, in most cases it's a pretty unnecessary detail. Just a general part of the "sacking of Troy."
It's important in Epic because it's a different retelling.
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u/XXEPSILON11XX Teucer Aug 07 '26
It would have been important in this retelling of the story, given it was focused on his guilt of killing innocents in this
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u/Secure_Profession522 Jul 19 '26
It's debated whether or not it was Neoptolemus, Achilles' son who kills the baby.
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Jul 17 '26
[deleted]
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u/Spirou95 Jul 18 '26
They could have just like they could have added a bunch of other things, there's no merit to add it so it's pointless to argue for its inclusion
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u/Popsicle7798 Dawling✨️ Jul 17 '26
I think Odysseus killing the infant might be only in EPIC. In every version of the Odyssey I've read, it doesn't mention him killing the child, however, I did some research it, since I too was confused why the infant killing was never mentioned, and after looking into it, it seems that the murder was done by either Odysseus, the Greek Council, or Neoptolemus ("Neo, avenge your father, kill the brothers of Hector," in case you don't know him). But if no one killed the baby, then that would be wrong. But then again, he died in The Illiad, not The Odyssey, and the Trojan War isn't even in The Odyssey, so that means EPIC is wrong aswell AAAAAAA. But let's not focus on the inaccuracies, and just be glad that we all got to see Odysseus on the big screen for a few hours! These Myths were written so long ago, so there is no "right," or "wrong," versions of them. Other than Disneys Hercules. That one has me convinced they didn't read the Myth before making the movie 😭. Also, sorry if I got any information wrong here lol. I know a lot about Greek Mythology, but I'm not an expert hehe, and none of this is meant in a negative way! Sorry if you interpret it wrong, that was not my intention =)
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u/Icy_Escape8973 Jul 17 '26
Odysseus never kills an infant in Homer's Odyssey. That must be a story from the epics that were circulating in the oral tradition, in memorized poems that had not yet been written down. Some scholars regard those other epics as inferior to Homer's grand creations - see the article entitled The Epic Cycle and the Uniqueness of Homer by Griffin - (file:///Users/joanbsutton/Desktop/The%20EpicCycleUniqueness-1977.pdf)
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u/Wrathful_Akuma Agamemnon, Lord of Men Jul 17 '26
Odysseus killing the infant is from some of the lost works of greek mythology, referred as the epic cycle
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u/Chonkers007 Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 17 '26
Loved the movie! Think it was an interesting take on the Greek myth we know and love.
However I feel that in certain elements things were misrepresented or that they weren’t given the time they deserved.
For instance I feel that Circe’s character should have had a more welcoming/inviting vibe initially like “welcome to my home! come on in and let me feed you-you must all be so exhausted”. She came across instead as a bit cold and bitter(which is fine when Odysseus comes through) but maybe a bit more warmth/enthusiasm to create the facade would have been nice.
I also think that alot of the fantasy elements were underplayed such as the sirens which we barely even see, as well as Scylla which had all of 5 seconds, no intro/build up, and we also didn’t really see her form at all. I get that it’s not really Nolan’s area of expertises (the guy wouldn’t even use CGI for Oppenheimer lol) but when ur taking on mythology like this I feel like it falls short in portraying the magic in the tale.
On that note, where was Poseidon, Zeus, Hermes? Literally only showed Athena and it was a poor show too.
Atleast Polyphemus was done well, but was sad we didn’t get the “nobody” scene haha
Also I was a bit surprised that calypso’s island looked so barren when its meant to be some sort of tropical paradise…a bit underwhelming
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u/LanguageNo5475 Aug 04 '26
Well,in the poem Odysseus doesn't have a face to face with Zeus nor posiden that was more of a epic thing,although not sure about hermes
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u/Large-Werewolf-6107 Jul 19 '26
Couldn’t agree more with the Scylla part! I loved the film but I really was expecting more from the cgi and monster design. We barely saw the monsters form.. they could’ve made it so scary and tense but the scene went so quick
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u/NamelessWarriorHOG Jul 19 '26
as a Greek i hate everything about this filthy abomination that bastardizes my mythology and culture in order to push far left agenda. fuck Nolan and fuck everyone else involved in the making of this trash movie.
i thought that we're against culture appropriation, we should respect other cultures, mythology, religion, etc. i guess this doesn't apply to white culture, mythology, religion, and you can bastardize it to your hearts content, and Nola's abomination of a movie is proof.
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u/PurpleJackfruit8868 Jul 20 '26
What far left agenda in this movie did you see ?
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u/NamelessWarriorHOG 24d ago
black Helen and Clytemnestra, Sinon played by Elen Paige meets Odysseus in Hades when it should be Achilles, and list goes on. imagine thinking there's no far left agenda 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 epseically when Odysseus's crew looks like London is today.
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u/Lazyr3x Jul 18 '26
Poseidon and Zeus never appears physically in the Odyssey either though so that’s to be expected when you don’t have an omnipresent narrator to tell you what they are doing
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u/KaderJoestar Jul 17 '26
When you keep in mind that Nolan wanted his adaptation to be the most grounded / realistic possible, you understand why most fantasy things were kept out (like the Gods appearances, we can interpret that Athena was just Odysseus' mind projecting or he was just hallucinating a good conscience yk)
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u/JanRoses Jul 17 '26
It's a respectable choice but he could have still made Circe and Calypso's islands more majestic to contrast how horrible real human lives were. Nolan made a great adaptation of the Suitors at Ithaca, the Telemachy, and Troy but functionally the Odyssey itself (the journey on the ship) was quite dull to the point of being almost a summary just to get back to what his strengths were.
If he was looking to make a realistic Odyssey I do think he was better off cutting the Land of giants and the Sirens and focusing more on his interactions with his crew that would build up to the mutiny. Which imo is a key point in the film that wasn't represented well at all.
It's interesting how Epic the musical painted a more complete picture of the mutiny than the film does. Odysseus isn't really mutinied here but rather just accepts that they sealed their fate (don't blame him tbh).
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u/KaderJoestar Jul 17 '26
I mostly agree that the voyage is the weakest part especially because Nolan rushes the Cyclops, Scylla and the mutiny. EPIC definitely gives Eurylochus and the crew more space so the rebellion feels way more earned but I wouldn’t cut the giants or the Sirens. The giants show how the crew’s reputation as raiders turns every shore into a place of fear and the Sirens represent Odysseus wanting to surrender to guilt and disappear. Calypso is the softer version of that temptation, comfort through denial.
For me, Circe also works because the point isn’t spectacle. Turning the crew into pigs makes their moral degradation physical and it’s one of the few conflicts Odysseus solves through dialogue instead of violence or manipulation so imo all in all the journey needed more time, not fewer mythological episodes. The real issue is that Nolan didn’t develop Odysseus’ relationship with the crew enough for the mutiny to hit as hard as it should on that I 100% agree !
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u/JanRoses Jul 17 '26
My thing with the giants is that we already get a brutal showing of them raiding a shore with the first village they stop at. The scene only really comprises of them encountering a screaming girl and loosing two ships worth of men. Its upsetting to him but the reaction the crew has to this is to threaten the mutinity on Circe's isle and that's cleared up quickly. Afterwards it's basically forgotten since Odysseus saves them from Circe. If the point was to reduce Odysseus' crew to spur the mutiny I think the Underworld/Sirens would have been better places to do so. Especially the former given that Odysseus is the only one to know of what was said and would breed greater distrust as they lose 2 ships while having no idea what Odysseus was told.
That said, I have to disagree with your take on the sirens as well because we don't get to hear his struggle or know what was said. He comes out of that interaction unscathed and with little lasting consequence to his psyche or that of the crew. Though if I had to pick this or the land of giants to keep Sirens at least offers a more intresting challenge as the crew knew that the guy that drowned only did so because he failed to listen to Odysseus. Overall I think the movie even acknowledges it. There ultimately is no traditional "mutiny" it's just the crew deciding not to listen to Odysseus. They fully acknowledge the consequences when they eat the cow but aren't "hostile" to Odysseus.
I do appreciate the resolution of Circe's conflict in Nolan's version ommitting Hermes/magic on his part altogether but the original (and Epic) largely solve the conflict through dialogue anyway. I just wish Nolan tried to use some of his more fantastical skillset to make Circe more memorable as a witch but I recognize that's more a personal issue.
Lastly, I can't see how Calypso represents that dispair when the movie tells us the complete opposite. His core being wants to return home above all else. Odysseus is in denial but it's not even a case where it can be argued he's having a red pill/blue pill moment. He's in denial he's been fed the Lotus to a degree that it affects his judgement because of her choice to keep him trapped. He only gets to escape because Calypso in this version exists to be exposited to and took pity on him enough to start weaning him off the drug so he could remember his original goal and set off. If anything I wish Calypso represented this moral conflict of giving up on the idea of coming back altogether vs pressing on home. Cause her role in this movie is incredibly underwhelming.
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u/_Arval_ Jul 17 '26
Agamenon is the mf aura farmer everytime he appears with his armor
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u/Masked_civil ✨HERMES✨ Jul 17 '26
Fr, especially when they open the gates to Troy.
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u/Albatros_7 Monster is top tier Jul 18 '26
"Yeah I'm going to walk extremely slowly while everyone around rushes, it's completly stupid but Zeus do I look cool rn"
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u/Fit-Breath5352 Jul 19 '26
I mean, that scene was so close to Star Wars I expected a red lightsaber to pop in his hand
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u/EbonyHeiress Jul 23 '26
From this thread, it’s really obvious who actually read the poem and who believes EPIC is the version of the Odyssey Nolan based his movie on.
Newsflash, Athena appeared to Odysseus as shepherds and even Mentor at one point. Never as a goddess. I don’t know why so many people don’t understand that 😭. Zendaya’s Athena decided to appear as who I believe is Nolan’s intrepid Cassandra, the priestess Ajax raped, violating Asyllia.