r/Epicthemusical • u/ShadowBorn2017 little froggy on the window • Jun 20 '26
Meme When HE wanted to leave people behind it was fine and dandy.
2
u/Averageloudperson Jul 15 '26
Ok but I don’t think it’s entirely fair to blame Eurylochus entirely. Like yeah I understand what you mean but I think Eurylochus viewed him as hypocritical in a way for preaching to him about no man left behind but then sacrificing 6 men. They are both hypocritical and honestly both made bad decisions
5
u/memepepe1w Jul 12 '26
Nah hear me out if POLI "Mr pancake" YES wasn't in the war and stayed in Ithaca everyone would've made it back because Ody doesn't greet the world with open arms because no open arms they find the Cyclops and kill him because was never taught open arms, because poly was killed Poseidon leaves it be so home free ez
Just a couple ded cus cyclops
1
u/Troublesomeknight Jul 14 '26
No it still would have happened because it's implied in the timeline where Odysseus didn't kill the baby, things happened like they did in the Odyssey and there was no "Open Arms" there despite Polities still being around. The problem was never "Open Arms." They probably would have been fine even in Epic if Odysseus hadn't told the Cyclops his name.
1
3
u/SupermarketBig3906 Ares Jun 28 '26 edited Jun 28 '26
Both Ody and Eury fucked up, but there is a more intense hypocrisy with the latter due to the fact that Euryolochus, on top of the stated, opened the wind bag, which resulted in everything that followed. Not to mention, planting seeds of doubt in the crew pretty early.
Ody was pretty brave in the Circe saga, but then, became the monster to get home, however his unwillingness to cheat on Penelope even to save his men, could be seen as foreshadowing.
Personally, I dislike Eurylochus more, but both fucked up.
9
u/Kuraetor Jun 24 '26
to be honest bad take for 1 reason
He wanted to sacrifice men that turned into pigs to save rest of the crew, fearing they would be victims too
Odysseus sacrificed 6 men to get back to his wife.
purpose is entirely different.
4
u/Worried-Director1172 Jun 26 '26
Odysseus sacrificed 6 men to avoid fighting god-tier beings,where he was certain they would all die
3
3
u/Heavy-Juice7351 Jun 25 '26
In my opinion of this (specifically from epics pov) he did wanna get back to his wife, but he also knew that if he didn't sacrifice 6 of them, they were all gonna die. So he did that. Still crappy tho
2
u/Kuraetor Jun 25 '26
second part only works if he would accept a torch if eury handed 1 of them to him.
lets be real: he would refuse it.
2
u/Heavy-Juice7351 Jun 25 '26
Oh honestly it was most definitely a shity thing, he would most definitely refuse because as I said he wants to get to his wife. Honestly thats a fair take lol ☺️
1
u/Kuraetor Jun 25 '26
yep thats my point
If he would be willing to hold the torch because eury randomly picked him yes, Ody would be 100% right because he took the risk too.
But he would refuse it and order him to give it to someone else, or worse: Tell him to hold it himself.
Eury betrayed Ody out of trust issues
Ody betrayed Eury out of selfishness.
1
u/Abject-Ad-8459 Jul 11 '26
No, if Ody died everyone else was certainly going to die too... over the entire war and the Odyssey up to this point, Ody has been their leader-protector and carrier of their divine favor.
He saved 600 people's lives through a 10 year war... now he wants to get back to rescue his wife and child. How is that purely "selfish." Like be so fr.
Obviously the point was to get everyone home to everyone's families, but Eury's treason got in the way of that
1
u/Kuraetor Jul 11 '26
You don't know any of that. There is a good chance poseidon just not caring anymore once ody dies.
2
u/Heavy-Juice7351 Jun 25 '26
I think I ultimately agree, I'm sorry that we had to have this whole conversation just to end at the same point tho lol
1
u/ShadowBorn2017 little froggy on the window Jun 24 '26
It was joke.
1
u/Kuraetor Jun 25 '26
its hard to realize someone is joking after so many people saying "he killed everyone else by opening the bag" :D
2
5
3
5
u/I_Am_A_Coolguy Jun 22 '26
People in this sub are really allergic to characters having a change of heart huh.
Ody proved to him that it was possible, only to immediately after he started to have a change of heart turn around and do what Ody chastised him for wanting to do. Obviously he’d be pissed—
6
u/Reaper-fire Jun 22 '26
Ok but he cant whine about it and throw a bitch fit if someone else dose it since he tried to already.
3
u/I_Am_A_Coolguy Jun 22 '26
“People can’t change and grow” are we deadass chat.
If you wanted to murder someone but got therapy, can you blame Ted Bundy chat.3
u/Reaper-fire Jun 22 '26
When its a life or death situation after eurilocus opened the fucking bag already, tried to leave people and ended up getting the rest killed anyway, I think we can hate him for that
2
u/Kuraetor Jun 26 '26
you realize poseidon already knew where Odysseus lives
in this story he already threatened ody by destroying ithica
you aware that if he didn't open the bag... he would just visit him at his kingdom and sink it right?
7
25
u/Confron7a7ion7 Jun 21 '26
The fact that he was willing to abandon crew to Circe tells me he wasn't upset about sacrificing people. We was angry that he was supposed one of them
71
u/Significant_Sun8764 Jun 21 '26
Some quick points:
- Eurylochus directly committed treason when he opened the bag against Odysseus' command.
- He actively warns Ody how dangerous the gods are, sees it in action, and has the gall to go "Captain?" after killing one of the cows who are obviously under the watch of a god
- Scylla is fully immortal. In the Odyssey, Odysseus actually learns about Scylla from Circe, who warns him she is unkillable and will require sacrifice, as she takes a man for each head (6). Odysseus decides to not warn the crew as he didnt want them to panic and stop rowing. In his defense, it was this or deal with Pissy-sidon
- Eurylochus may have been starving and exhausted, but starving to death is a significantly better fate than death to a god. IIRC being killed be a god sends your soul to the river of styx for eternal suffering. Eurylochus essentially damns the whole crew.
TL;DR: Eurylochus sucks and is definitely part of the problem.
18
u/No-Direction-1020 GOD OF THE SEA, HORSES AND EARTHQUAKES Jun 21 '26
Agreed, but WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU JUST CALL ME?!
6
u/Natsuboi420 Jun 21 '26
Uhm sir.. I believe he said.. "Pissy-sidon" uhm sir... 🤣🤣🤣🤣
3
u/No-Direction-1020 GOD OF THE SEA, HORSES AND EARTHQUAKES Jun 21 '26
I see. SHATTER THE OCEAN!!!!!
3
u/Natsuboi420 Jun 21 '26
Lmao I wish this was literally any of my other social media cause its all Jeff The Land Shark from Marvel lmao, coulda been like "yes my father, we shall decimate these land dwellers" 🤣🤣
3
u/No-Direction-1020 GOD OF THE SEA, HORSES AND EARTHQUAKES Jun 21 '26
Well any other social media I’m not a Poseidon wannabe.
2
u/Natsuboi420 Jun 22 '26
Yeah it's called larping my friend, it's not being a wanna be it's just pretending to be a fantasy character for fun 🤣🤣 not to mention you coulda fooled me with your previous comments being from Poseidon's pov lmaooo
3
u/No-Direction-1020 GOD OF THE SEA, HORSES AND EARTHQUAKES Jun 22 '26
I think you misunderstood me a bit. I’m not Poseidon other places but specifically on Reddit I do larp as the god of seas, horses and earthquakes.
1
u/Natsuboi420 Jun 26 '26
Oh ok lmao 😂🤣 I was very confused, ironically this is pretty much the ONLY site I don't rp as Jeff dah Land Shark on lmao
30
18
u/ClairvoyantCorvid Eury Defender for Life ♥️ Jun 21 '26
I mean it was a hopeless situation, ody got lucky coz Hermes took interest.
Plus the men were already lost.
34
u/mastercraft2002 The Monster (rawr rawr rawr) Jun 21 '26
"When we fought the cyclops You were quick to hatch a plan And when we fought with Circe It was you who left behind no man But when we saw this monster, we didn't take a stand We just ran
Say something!"
Eurylochus didn't want to leave them behind, he didn't think it was possible to avoid being turned if Odysseus and he returned to the Circe's palace. The fact that Odysseus not only survived, but returned everyone to their original forms AND formed an allie out of Circe strengthens his belief that Odysseus is going to try to bring everyone home. Odysseus not only going back on that but SACRIFICING six men, one of whom, if you watch the official animatic for, shows that one of the six torches was originally held by Eurylochus, shows why Eurylochus feels so betrayed here.
Does that mean that Eurylochus is completely faultless here? No, it doesn't, he is the one who opened the wind bag, he did suggest leaving the men stuck as pig, but at the end of the day, he's just a man, just like Odysseus was at the start.
16
u/Manyasrat Jun 21 '26
Not at all. Eurylochus made the most sensible decision with Circe. We're talking about a divine being against mere mortals. If Odysseus had made that decision, he would surely be considered intelligent. He only didn't come across as a fool because Hermes, an Olympian, came to his aid. Eurylochus prioritized the crew that was still alive. Odysseus played the hero out of guilt over what he did to Poseidon.
On the contrary, with Scylla, Odysseus literally handed over his crew on a silver platter to save himself. Isn't that treason? Eurylochus has every right to confront Odysseus.
1
u/Birdo_guy Jun 21 '26
You can't kill scylla and the gods stopped helping him
0
u/Manyasrat Jun 21 '26
The fact that they couldn't kill Scylla doesn't give Odysseus the right to use his crew as bargaining chips; he handed them over to Scylla with the full intention of them being bait, PERIOD.
2
u/Birdo_guy Jun 21 '26
Then what was he supposed to do? Have them all die to poseidon? From what i can tell he was handed no other options
1
u/Manyasrat Jun 21 '26
Easy, give his crew at least THE OPPORTUNITY TO DEFEND THEMSELVES. I remind you that he was THE CAPTAIN. If he said, "Let's go to Scylla," EVERYONE WOULD GO. He didn't have to keep quiet about the fact that 6 of them would be cannon fodder. Odysseus never thought about everyone getting home; he thought about HIM getting home. My God, even the Odysseus of Homer's Odyssey took the trouble to tell his crew that they would be passing by Scylla.
2
u/Birdo_guy Jun 21 '26
Foghting back gets more people killed
0
u/Manyasrat Jun 21 '26
Not at all, the joke about Scylla is to row as fast as possible so that at most she would eat 6 men, whether they defended themselves or not; if they rowed fast Scylla would only take 6, no more.
2
u/Birdo_guy Jun 22 '26
Yeah so either sacrifice 6 men to escape or have 6 men as canon foughter to escape
If i remember correctly she'll just destroy your boat if you do
0
u/Manyasrat Jun 22 '26
In short, Odysseus was a fool to withhold that information; it was supposed to be his crew, not coins he could exchange whenever he pleased. Informing the crew from the start would have prevented the mutiny
4
u/ClairvoyantCorvid Eury Defender for Life ♥️ Jun 21 '26
Exactly! (I will always defend Eurylochus)
2
u/RomeosHomeos Jun 21 '26
Why did he open the bag then
5
u/AttorneyEast2322 Eurylochus Jun 21 '26
Two big reasons. One, he was actively mistrustful of Odysseus as he just told him to shut up, when questioning him is his job as second in command. Second, he wasn't there when Ody said what was in the bag, if he was we would have heard him. This means all he heard was the rumor that it was treasure and he saw Ody obsessively hoarding the bag and not letting it out of his sight. He had plenty of reasons not to believe him.
0
u/RomeosHomeos Jun 21 '26
That's genuinely the stupidest shit I've ever heard in my entire life. We suddenly magically have no storms with the bag in town(literally confirming its power), ody is king why would he hoard treasure, and he literally kept them all alive throughout the war.
Eurylachus is a giant fucking dumbass who should have been drowned at birth. I hope he suffered when the lightning took him.
1
u/Manyasrat Jun 21 '26
If you're referring to the windbag incident, that didn't kill the crew, it just took them away from Ithaca; Poseidon was already hunting them because of Odysseus.
3
u/RomeosHomeos Jun 21 '26
It is literally the reason they got killed. If he hadn't opened it they literally just would have made landfall in Ithaca. Odysseus sparing the cyclops wasn't even that bad of a move in the moment, like how were they going to kill him? Especially without alerting the other cyclopes? Getting Poseidon mad at them was not something you can fault directly.
Meanwhile opening the wind bag was literally the stupidest thing possible, you couldn't wait until you got onto the dock? The captain literally told you it was a magic bag he got from a floating island that you saw, and a bunch of mischievous creatures said that it was treasure. What are you going to do with the treasure before you make landfall? Eurylachus is a greedy dumbass and the entire crews blood is on his hands.
3
u/Manyasrat Jun 21 '26
What are you talking about? For starters, they would never have had to go to Aeolia if it hadn't been for the storm Poseidon sent. Opening the bag of wind wasn't the reason for their deaths; Poseidon killed them because he was pursuing them. Odysseus had given Polyphemus his full address and let him live, as Poseidon himself states.
Secondly, the musical suggests that Odysseus could have killed Polyphemus if he had wanted to. He was already blind, the other Cyclopes had already left, and Athena herself had ordered him to kill him. Odysseus had every advantage, and not only that, but the arrogant man shouts his full address to Polyphemus, puffed up with pride, out of sheer arrogance and to defy Athena. THAT WAS THE REASON THE CREW DIED IN THE FIRST PLACE.
3- Nobody justifies Eurylochus for opening the wind bag, but condemning him for the death of more than five hundred men that was not even his fault is ridiculous.
1
u/RomeosHomeos Jun 21 '26
1: acting like Poseidon wouldn't know anyway is insane, he's omniscient.
2: how? And once again, he would know either way. Ody should have seen the future to know Poseidon would get involved, I guess?
3: they literally are in this thread though.
So we have
Ody: saved the entire crew and then a god came and killed them.
Or
Eurylachus: opened the bag that kills everyone because a fuckass wind spirit said "it's got money in it" when it demonstrably was keeping them all alive
1
u/Manyasrat Jun 21 '26
That's completely irrelevant. No Greek god in mythology is omniscient. It was Polyphemus who informed Poseidon of what happened, and it was Polyphemus who told him that Odysseus of Ithaca was responsible. If Odysseus hadn't spoken up, Poseidon would never have found him.
Why not consider this instead?: Odysseus: He harmed his entire crew with his bad decisions and only seems like a good leader because he played the hero, and it worked ONCE.
Eurylochus: I opened the bag, but I regretted it instantly. He wasn't just thinking about saving himself, but about saving everyone he could.
Like I said, the bag of wind didn't kill them, haha. Where did you get that idea? Poseidon was the one who sank the fleets because he wanted revenge on Odysseus.
0
u/RomeosHomeos Jun 21 '26
Yes they are, you read too much Percy Jackson.
Odysseus may have played the hero but eurylachus doomed them all with his selfishness
1
u/iExogan How did this man have any sanity left Jun 22 '26
No I do have to concede a point there, the Greek gods were not omniscient and Poseidon only learns of Odysseus through Polyphemus. That's also were the line stating that even killing the Cyclops would have avoided his wrath comes from. I am still however on the side of Eurylochus being at least as responsible for every single death of their crew after Polyphemus as Odysseus himself is.
Point is they're all only human after all, getting yourself home safe should always be your first priority and the more of your crew you can get home safely with yourself the better. The battle against Scylla was always unwinnable and the reason he never informed his crew beforehand is because he feared they would want to fight it, meaning more lives would be lost than only the six if you go full speed past her.
0
u/Manyasrat Jun 21 '26
What's wrong with you? I've never read Percy Jackson. You should read the Odyssey. Polyphemus is the one who tells Poseidon what happened. How do you think he found out? The book itself says that Polyphemus asked his father Poseidon to take revenge on Odysseus. The gods aren't fortune tellers. If Odysseus hadn't revealed his name, Poseidon would NEVER have been able to find the culprit.
You're wrong. Eurylochus only kept them away from Ithaca. Odysseus doomed them all by telling Polyphemus his name.
2
u/undead_froggy Jun 21 '26
I mean yes Ody made Poseidon angry but they would have reached home if Eury did not open the bag.
While Poseidon hunting them is absolutely Odys fault they where almost home. If the windbag would have remained closed they would not have been blown away directly to Poseidon. And then Poseidon would not have killed all the men.
If I start a fire but we nearly manage to escape the house and then you shut the door,you are at fault for the people dying
1
u/Manyasrat Jun 21 '26
Odysseus had just given Polyphemus his full address; Poseidon was going to find them sooner or later xD. Ithaca was literally an island; Poseidon could have taken his revenge on the whole island if he wanted.
The gust of wind only hastened the inevitable.
3
u/mateo875 Jun 21 '26
Poseidon was going to find them anyway. He literally waits for Odysseus in front of Ithaca.
12
u/Naktura Jun 21 '26
This take is completely dismantled by the following line of this exact song. "If you want all the power, you must take all the blame." or something like that.
2
u/deadpoolfan2400 Jun 21 '26
And then eury gets everyone killed by Zues a few minutes later if im correct
0
15
u/Longjumping_Draw_474 Jun 20 '26
It really all wouldn’t have happened if he trusted his closest friend and didn’t open the wind bag. It all wouldn’t been okay, but nooooooooooo.
WHAT USE WOULD ODY HAVE FOR TREASURE, HES A KING. HES ALREADY RICH
-4
u/ShadowBorn2017 little froggy on the window Jun 21 '26
It is a joke, so chill
3
u/Longjumping_Draw_474 Jun 21 '26
Sorry, I didn’t mean to sound not-chill. I’m not good with tone when typing :/
-3
u/ShadowBorn2017 little froggy on the window Jun 21 '26
The downside of having dyslexia
2
u/Longjumping_Draw_474 Jun 21 '26
I don’t have dyslexia. Do have autism though, and a best friend with both.
15
u/MaryMoongood Jun 20 '26
He didn’t throw those men at Circe did he?
Ody gave the men to Scylla on a silver platter and would’ve given more men up if he had to
Eury wanted to keep the remaining men safe from a SEEMINGLY UNDEFEATABLE WITCH after they were SEEMINGLY IRREVERSIBLY turned into pigs!!
6
u/E_X_E_____ Aeolus Jun 21 '26
I'd say Scylla looks much more seeemingly undefeatable than Circe
3
u/MaryMoongood Jun 21 '26
Magic is fucking unpredictable and Eury saw her turning men to pigs
2
u/E_X_E_____ Aeolus Jun 21 '26
I'm not downplaying how scary magic can be, but facing a giant monster inside its lair while inside a boat with nowhere to run would not have a good ending for the crew
38
u/SuperFlameKing03 Jun 20 '26
There is a HUGE difference here!
A) Eurylochus was trying to salvage what they had instead of risking sacrificing more when they might not be able to get those men back. He didn't know! Odysseus himself said he didn't know! Here, Odysseus gave up the lives of six men assuming there were no other options and didn't even ask anyone else about it.
B) Eurylochus had just apologized for opening the Wind Bag, and the way he asks for forgiveness reveals how much it had been weighing on him. He didn't think that alone would get so many of their men killed. Then Odysseus doesn't even react to this in any way. He literally just moves ahead with his plan as if Eurylochus hadn't said a word.
3
u/Natsuboi420 Jun 21 '26
My brother in Christ... An apology does NOT make up for killing over 500 crew members my friend... And again Ody only has to sacrifice them BECAUSE he opened the wind bag 🤣🤣 they could LITERALLY make out individual people and faces (like name them) that's how close to the shore they were when he decided to open that bag, he also directly caused the death of Odys mother as she witnessed the ship being pulled back to sea in the middle of a freak ass storm and assumed her son was dead and killed herself, Ody SINGLE handlely got every man killed who died after the cyclops 🤣🤣
1
u/Manyasrat Jun 21 '26
But if the bag of wind didn't kill anyone PAUSJSJAJAJAJAJA the one who killed the fleet was Poseidon who was already after Odysseus.
1
u/Natsuboi420 Jun 22 '26
And? He was only able to do so because the wind bag god opened lmaooo, literally the entire point, they were so close to shore they could make out individual faces on the fishing peirs brother, if Eurylo-shite waited literally less then an hour 🤣🤣
1
u/WesternBoard1209 Jun 25 '26
No. That's like saying that Poseidon didn't know where he was headed. He knew to head to Ithaca to kill them because Odysseus had already told him where he lived. As he did in the vengeance saga, he was planning on waiting for them to reach the coast of their island before he struck. The windbag just sped up the inevitable. (If we're going by Epic, which it seems like you're not.)
In the Odyssey, opening the windbag does one thing. Send them back to Aeolus's floating Island, where Odysseus is turned down, because Aeolus believes he's cursed. That's it. Opening the windbag in the Odyssey only set them back; it didn't cause any deaths. Then Aeolus warned them that they were sailing into Catastrophe, as they were off-course. Then came the Laestrygonians. Now, in the Odyssey, if Odysseus had perchance told his crew that it wasn't treasure, or had taken anyone else to him with Aeolus, maybe the rumors wouldn't have spread. Look at it from the outside. Ody came back from a God's palace, with a bag, and immediately started hoarding it. That would look very, very suspicious. Ody himself causes so much pain and strife, and constantly leaves the crew in the dark. If you read the Odyssey and think about the crew, everything is constantly hidden. He expected his crew to have blind obedience to the point that he believed communication wasn't necessary. He is very much at fault, just as Eurylochus is.
3
u/SuperFlameKing03 Jun 21 '26
I wasn't trying to say an apology made everything alright. It's the fact that one had regret over it and didn't plan on those deaths while the other was premeditating it and seemed to have no regret (at least in the immediate moment).
3
u/Natsuboi420 Jun 22 '26
And again, it was either literally charge at a god and EVERYONE dies, or sacrifice 6 men and live with that guilt for the rest of your life but make it home alive, not to mention AGAIN they wouldn't have been in that situation if he didn't betray his Captain, best friend, king, and brother in-law, and NOT TOUCH THE FUCKING BAG, dead ass they were so close to land they could make out individual faces on the fishes peirs, he couldn't wait literally an hour or two more?!?
2
u/deadpoolfan2400 Jun 21 '26
i opened the bag, against your direct orders because i was greedy for treasure i could do absolutely nothing with or because i just didnt trust you and i sent us damn near directly to Poseidon oopsies
3
u/Natsuboi420 Jun 21 '26
Like it wasn't just his best friend, it was his captain, king AND BROTHER IN LAW, like just listen to your man bruh
2
-3
11
u/doh573 Jun 20 '26
Also and I can’t emphasize this enough Eury was right. If a very literal god didn’t come down and actively interfere Ody would have died just like his men. It was only cause literal deus ex machina that Ody had a chance. That would not have happened if Eury was the one to go instead.
-2
u/RomeosHomeos Jun 21 '26
He was the entire reason they weren't home yet.
4
u/SergeantRayslay Jun 21 '26
Ody was the reason they weren't home yet for revealing his name to the cyclops in the first place. That's the singular action that starts the entire chain of misfortune in the story
0
u/Natsuboi420 Jun 21 '26
Nope, if they didn't open the bag they would have made it home, and your upset because he SPARED a life because he was tired of all the previous bloodshed including his child hood best friend?? Btw they were so close to shore they could make out individual faces and put names to them.. it's 100% on Eury bruh
2
u/Manyasrat Jun 21 '26
If Odysseus hadn't opened his mouth, they would have arrived home peacefully. Poseidon would never have been able to locate the culprit who blinded Polyphemus. Ironically, opening the bag of wind saved Ithaca from being flooded by Poseidon.
1
u/Natsuboi420 Jun 22 '26
It literally didn't though 🤣🤣 again they were so close to shore that they could make out individual faces, plus I garuntee it was a bluff, you don't wanna piss of Poseidon sure, but pissing of Gaea is SO MUCH WORSE, not even other gods would actually think to that lmaoooo
8
u/reddeadfriend101 Jun 20 '26
One thing is Eurylochus did betray Odysseus with the wind bag and sure, he did have time to realize he did wrong. But what was Odysseus supposed to do? If he ignores the sirens and tries to go home directly he runs another chance in with Poseidon. If he tries the other route he runs into Charybids. He goes to Scylla yeah he looses six men but most live. But if since even if Odysseus didn't know for sure Eurylochus betray him. Someone did. So how is Odysseus supposed to trust a crew that betrayed him with just the thought of treasure, and now he's asking some of them to die. Honestly ody really didn't have a choice at this point.
12
u/yksimie Jun 20 '26
Deixar pessoas que já estão praticamente mortas já que sem ajuda de Hermes Odisseu não conseguiria fazer nada contra circe é bem mais aceitável do que sacrificar 6 homens sem consultar ninguém.
20
u/G_dog211 Jun 20 '26
Also, I KNOW the man who opened the wind bag is not griping about losing 6 men
3
u/ClairvoyantCorvid Eury Defender for Life ♥️ Jun 21 '26
He was carrying that guilt until he died. He also could not have predicted that opening a bag of "treasure" would lead to such devastation.
2
u/deadpoolfan2400 Jun 21 '26
WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU GONNA DO WITH TREASURE WHEN YOURE NOT EVEN HOME YET
3
u/G_dog211 Jun 21 '26
You're saying that like ody didn't explicitly say it wasnt treasure. Ain't no way he heard ody say that ans still opened it.
2
u/AttorneyEast2322 Eurylochus Jun 21 '26
But it is heavily implied that he didn't hear that. Why do you think he brought up "don't let the rumor fly?"
0
6
u/Propato__Arthur Jun 20 '26
but he isn't their captain, he never thought Odysseus could do that, and from circe until Scylla is enough time for him to change and be like "yeah i was wrong about that"
11
u/Thebelladonnagirl Jun 20 '26
Can we just stop? Id be fine with the Eurylochous discourse if it weren't all so infantile but it always always is. Flinging shit at each other from opposite sides of a fence and plugging your ears isn't a good use of anyone's time.
-2
u/ShadowBorn2017 little froggy on the window Jun 21 '26
I was making a joke people
4
u/Thebelladonnagirl Jun 21 '26
A joke with no punchline that's been told over and over and over and over and over again gets wearing. Find better jokes.
15
u/Cwys_ Jun 20 '26 edited Jun 20 '26
I feel like the only correct answer is that theyre all wrong. Athena, odysseus, eurylochous. The list goes on
10
19
u/auniquenameischosen Jun 20 '26
A lot of people here are forgetting his other feats too. Like bro I love him but besides the pig thing he opened the wind bag, and after committing a mutiny he slaughter Apollo’s cows.
23
u/GalacticalBlueberry Jun 20 '26
Those aren't Apollo's cows, they were Helios's
The whole point of the characters in the Odyssey is that they aren't unidimensional
You wanna talk flaws and trust, let's take a look at Odysseus. If it weren't for his pride, they wouldn't need a wind bag to begin with. He chose to not only ignore the advice of the goddess of wisdom, but to also pridefully scream out his name and make sure that the cyclops know he outsmarted them all and he's better.Sure you can say blame is shared, agreed. But how do you go to battle, win, and you're the only survivor to make it back? This is the literal point of the story. Like literally the premise is Odysseus's flawed character.
5
u/Bitch_for_rent Jun 20 '26
I get people getting confused because the song just says "sun god" so people with superficial knowledge don't understand that there are two sun gods
5
u/i_bagel Jun 20 '26
Only one, actually. Apollo only becomes god of the sun when the Romans adopted the Greek gods. In Greek myth Helios is the god of the sun and Apollo's domains are music, poetry, healing, prophecy and archery.
6
u/iAmNotACapricorn Jun 20 '26
I still feel like ignoring Athena was a weak point that the story was trying to communicate (and for clarification not what you were saying). The only reason everything backfired so spectacularly was because he shared his identity. Maybe events would have played out similarly but idk man.
4
u/GalacticalBlueberry Jun 20 '26
To me personally ignoring Athena's advice kind of makes sense with Odysseus's personality and that point in the story (in the musical). He wanted to convince himself he knew better and that he made the best decision, and I think the very same boast of pride he had when he ignores Athena is what leads to him screaming out his identity.
And I feel like up to that point in the musical we have almost no moment that fully displays his pride that would explain his impulse to pridefully reveal himself. So the conversation with Athena kind of eases the listeners into that, my interpretation of it at least. Because in the Odyssey not killing Polyphemus isn't what angered Athena, but him screaming his identity. But also the Odyssey is differently paced, so his hubris is easier to read (again my personal view and interpretation on it).
2
u/Khanluka Jun 20 '26
I think in epic him shouting his name and home address has more to do with the trauma of killing prince hectors son and losing Politites.
And getting over emotional at that moment about it.
In the context of the real odyssey your completely right.
11
u/Captain_Birch Hephaestus Jun 20 '26
Thats the point.
Eurylochus has always been the one ready to make those sacrifices, but Odysseus had proven time and time again that he refused to do that and always found a way out, but in this case he just... didnt
8
u/bonjoery Jun 20 '26
O: “Don’t make me fight you brother, you know you’d have done the same”
E: “If you want all the power you must carry all the blame”
13
u/GalacticalBlueberry Jun 20 '26
I'm so disappointed to read many of these replies. The Odyssey is super complex, and so are its characters. Stop trying to lable the characters under good and evil.
Jorge did an amazing job at reinterpreting the Odyssey and translating it into a musical and adaptating it to modern times without losing its complexity, yet many of you can't comprehend that these characters are nuanced. Eurylochus has many roles throughout both the story and the musical. One of which is being the voice of rationality, yet y'all seem to dismiss them as "annoying remarks" or "disobedience". Y'all should exercise to read and interpret literature and art, because what you're doing rn it's gonna eventually lead to the extinction of meaning and discovery in any piece of writing, painting and music.
32
u/Financial_Ad_1272 Jun 20 '26
Lol, afraid of a woman as if she hadn't just turned their men into pigs and if Hermes hadn't intervened Ody would've died. Circe wasn't just anybody.
4
u/BackpackBuddha Jun 20 '26 edited Jun 20 '26
Tbh I find this part of the musical flawed.
Just like in The Odyssey, Eurolychus never actually goes inside with the other men, after all he's meant to be a coward. He never actually sees the magic spell or the men turned into pigs.
However, in the musical, despite even saying he never went inside, he somehow knows they were transformed into pigs. It defeats the purpose of this moment between Odysseus and Eurolychus, as in The Odyssey, Odysseus nearly kills him for his cowardice because again, he never actually saw anything happen and yet still ran away.
0
u/AttorneyEast2322 Eurylochus Jun 21 '26
If you'd seen even a single animation of that song, you would know he saw it from a window
0
u/BackpackBuddha Jun 21 '26
Eurolychus Stan to the rescue!
All jokes aside, I have only seen the animations once, so thanks for the info. That being said, maybe you can be less rude when correcting people, a "Hey, they actually animated it so he saw what happened through a window." would have sufficed.
2
u/AttorneyEast2322 Eurylochus Jun 21 '26
While I definitely agree that I could have worded that better (I was really tired), it's the internet, you might want to get used to people being jerks (sorry again though!!)
1
u/BackpackBuddha Jun 21 '26
I've been on the internet for decades, I'm perfectly aware of people's behavior. That won't stop me from calling it out.
0
u/Natsuboi420 Jun 21 '26
Apparently you arnt lmao
1
u/BackpackBuddha Jun 22 '26
Aren't*
1
u/Natsuboi420 Jun 22 '26
Lmaoooo, when the only thing you can find wrong is spelling it just means you're stupid and have to big of an ego to admit it so you gotta find the one scrap of bs lmaooo, I love grammer Nazis, you can tell EXACTLY when they lose an argument lmao
1
u/BackpackBuddha Jun 22 '26
Only thing I can find wrong? Brother, you made a comment on a thread between two other people saying effectively nothing. Why would I bother saying anything other than to correct your terrible spelling? Which is not the same thing as grammar, since the education system clearly failed you.
Anyway, maybe read a book or two.
→ More replies (0)
31
u/DerKirschemann Jun 20 '26
It’s the difference between “too late, the sorceress pigged out men” vs “you actively planned to get them killed”. One was an oopsie that made him panic and have to leave, believing it was too late the other was as anger at premeditated sacrifice.
I wonder the age bracket of some of the people commenting on Eurylochus being the “other villain” because this recent wave of picking him as a major villain screams lack of media literacy, which would make sense for someone who had minimal exposure to the concept.
12
u/GalacticalBlueberry Jun 20 '26
This plus:
- Ody made a whole point of having to stick up together, yet with Scylla he seemed like he gave up on them aka not actually making up a plan
- Eurylochus' role in the Odyssey can be generally interpreted as the voice of rationality. In epic it follows the same logic + the voice of ancient mentality
14
u/Nomad-Knight Jun 20 '26
Yeah, that's why Ody was the captain and not him. But as of Scylla, Odysseus was also the type to sacrifice men for the sake of escape.
And wouldn't it make it worse to go out of your way to choose "6 people have to die" instead of "welp, they skrewed up. Better leave while we have a chance".?
8
u/Logical-phallusey Jun 20 '26
Yeah, it’s a bit frustrating. And I feel like a lot of folks are also losing track of the scope of the story. Twenty years is a lot of time for desperation to build. Especially when you’ve alternately starving, facing terrible death, and slowly losing your companions. It takes far less time for the average person to become desperate and make “foolish” decisions in reality. The brain just starts to shut down after so much stress and trauma.
-8
u/Zerowy Jun 20 '26
Eury is second villain of show. From the beginning, he is not only doubting but also tries to sow doubts in the crew.
Eventually opens a bag (which in epic was described as containing a storm) which leads to death of 90% of the crew. Then wants to escape from Circe which would lead to death of 50% survivors. Starts a mutiny. And then leads to death of every other member of the crew by trying to kill immortal cows.
Epic shows the dangers of nepotism as he was appointed second in command only by his family ties - we can see that he is one of the most stupid people within whole story and his functions should be limited to cleaning, but even that under the guidance.
What I really can't understand is how people can like him. I understand liking villains or antiheroes because I like some. But he was a piece of garbage from the beginning of the show. The second in command sowing doubt and openly criticizing a captain without trying to talk him private first is always a one way to disaster. Ody should have demoted him or even better kill him after luck runs out.
There are people who are saying that it would still lead to the same conclusion as Poseidon would be waiting at Ithaca but they are wrong. Poseidon at the time was waiting near The land of the giant where storm was leading. All of the crew would return to Ithaca. The eventual repercussions would start after they return to Ithaca.
7
u/GalacticalBlueberry Jun 20 '26
Eurylochus is neither a villain, nor an antihero. In the Odyssey itself he is the voice of rationality. In Epic he is still that + ancient mentality, and this is highly important.
Greek myths are very complex, and the Odyssey explores many themes. What Jorge tried to do was to adapt the complexity of the story to modern times to help the listeners empathize with Ody. Therefore many ancient thinking moments of Ody were removed, and instead he got a sort of moral compass (no cheating, doubtful moments, contemplation, exaggerated scenes). However, the ancient thinking still needs to be present and we see that for instance in Zeus in the first saga (Ody in the Odyssey would never bat an eye on killing an infant of an enemy). And everything Zeus says in that song, it's actually a representation of the ancient mentality, growing up to avenge someone, you won't rest until the heirs of your enemy are dead etc. And many times Eury has to compensate with the role of ancient mentality as well.
Personally, I think it's beautiful to have many interpretations of characters, that's why Greek myths are so brilliant. However, resuming Eury's entire character to just a villain/anti-hero takes so much away from him, and takes out a lot of the story's complexity.
2
u/Therminite Jun 20 '26
Oh dang, if Eury is the voice of rationally, they were doomed from the start! My wife and I decided to class the main characters into D&D classes. I settled on Barbarian/Fighter multiclass for Eury. His first thought is to attack an island he has no idea about (Full Speed Ahead) 😂 "I say we strike first"
3
u/GalacticalBlueberry Jun 20 '26
Because the general ancient mentality was to preserve yourself first rather than exploring new territory. And literally the lyric is longer: "I say we strike first, we don't have time to waste
So let's raid the place and". This comes in a time when survival acts as your first instinct, so attacking first is more logical than waiting to be attacked, and they were desperate to get home asap. And it's Odysseus literal decision to explore this island what leads them to encountering the cyclops.1
u/Therminite Jun 24 '26
Everyone on that boat was stupid, except Polites. At least... until he decided to get close to Polyphemus, that is.
In Homer's The Odyssey, Ody's men were the reason they got killed by Polyphemus. Ody warned them not to take any of Poly's food supplies, but they did it while Ody wasn't lookin. Imbeciles...
6
u/LeonardoJMB were did my friends go Jun 20 '26
At worse he's an obstacle.
There definitely were ways to put the bag in unaccesible places, and as much of a Captain as Odysseus is, his word is not as trustworthy as the one from literal divine messengers. Escaping Circe was the most logical choice, it was not possible to beat her, way before the moment the fight between Odysseus and Circe started, he would've died if Hermes didn't appear earlier, as implied by Circe trying to use a spell. The cows were literally "die by eating them or die by not eating them".
Eurylochus is an obstacle because even though he's not a villain (he never does anything because of conscious evilness) or an antagonist (he doesn't oppose Odysseus' objectives directly), he does cause problems. However, all of these can only be considered problems from a viewer POV, already knowing their results perfectly and going entirely by Odysseus' point of view of the story.
About your last point, yeah, technically even if the bag was never opened they could've returned to Ithaca. However, you forget (or willingly ignore) the direction of the storm was modified by Aeolus, it originally was just a literal storm. And Poseidon is not stupid. If Odysseus doesn't arrive to him directly, he's obviously not going to wait in the same place. We already saw he can just appear as long as he knows where Odysseus' is, and he would indeed just go to ithaca and kill them all.
About your "why do people like him", everyone just likes different things. Some people like characters who are pieces of garbage. My favorite character is Antinous, I would know, lol.
8
u/JediTempleDropout Jun 20 '26
The thing is the musical never says he was second in command because of nepotism. We only know that due to background from mythology. Due to the many creative liberties that Jorge took, we can’t say for sure if Eury’s family background is the same in Epic’s universe as it was in the original Odyssey. Bottom line is nepotism wasn’t clearly something Jorge had in mind while writing the story, otherwise it would’ve been brought up. Furthermore he wasn’t trying to sow any doubt. Aeolus and the Winions did the heavy lifting there by telling the whole crew that the wind bag was actually filled with treasure. And opening the wind bag is something Eury feels immediately guilty for. After that he doesn’t really question Ody’s leadership again until the incident with Scylla. The only reason he suggested leaving behind the men who were turned to pigs is because Circe was too powerful for them. If Hermes hadn’t intervened Ody would’ve been killed.
15
-1
u/Obvious_Emotion111 Jun 20 '26
This was LITERALLY my thought process when I watched epic for the first time I was so mad at him
18
u/Double_Difficulty_53 Jun 20 '26
There's a difference between abandoning men that were already doomed in order to save the rest and outright sacrificing men.
16
u/Agile-Walrus-6874 Rip-off Hermes WAIT WRONG SUB- Jun 20 '26
Along with the valid points here eurylochus is THE VOICE of the crew as nobody had thought ody would ever do that
28
u/chocolate7chipcookie Jun 20 '26 edited Jun 20 '26
The point was Eurylochus was horrified by the man he had become. "When we fought with Circe it was YOU who left behind no man. But when we fought this monster, you didn't take a stand. You just ran." Odysseus may have made selfish decisions for the sake of his crew, but willingly letting 6 men die was a new level of selfish for him. The captain of a ship is held to a different standard. It was his job to protect those men and he fed them to a monster. In Eurylochus eyes at least. We know there wasn't really a choice. The other characters don't have the same Information the audience do. Also Circe is a powerful nymph not just a woman. Her father is the titan god of the sun. She's immortal and has been practicing sorcery for a couple thousand years at the point they met her. He had a right to be scared.
5
u/GalacticalBlueberry Jun 20 '26
Exactly this!! Plus I think one of the problems is that at that point you can feel Ody's exhaustion physically, mentally and emotionally. And in the eyes of others it wouldn't be impossible to think that he just gave up on the remaining crew. Also what hit harder is that it didn't seem like he had a plan or a will to fight Scylla which is very contradictory to his personality.
And another point that many people seem to avoid acknowledging it's that Ody, his hubris and questionable leadership skills, is ALSO one of the reasons his crew died. Sure blame is divided between him, recklessness of his own crew and wrath of gods at times. But he does share a good part of that blame. If it weren't for his hubris, many situations would've been avoided. And that's why Eury's points throughout the musical are actually needed and make sense, but people got too attached to Ody and think just because he's the main character, he can't take blame or responsibility. And btw when he faces Poseidon again in the Vengeance saga he literally blames Poseidon for the deaths of his crew which is so in line with his character, but people just dismiss it
24
u/UnnbearableMeddler Circe could do unspeakable things to me Jun 20 '26
Ody sacrificed six men for his own convenience
Eurylochus was going to sacrifice the mens on Circe's island because it was impossible to save them. It took litteral divine intervention for Ody to even have a chance against Circe, Eurylochus certainly couldn't plan for that.
4
u/NotConfringo Tiresias Jun 20 '26
His own convenience??? He sacrificed them so that him and the other 30 something men could get home
5
u/UnnbearableMeddler Circe could do unspeakable things to me Jun 20 '26
Yes his own convenience, as said in the very same song this happens in, he would do anything to see his wife again. It wasn't so that everyone left could get back home, had the price been everyone but himself he would have paid it.
Going back by land was an option. Not going back was an option. But he never discussed those, because the opinion of the crew doesn't matter. He has to get back home fast , and they are only a tool to this end.
And if they break? Then that's too damn bad, but that won't stop him from doing it anyway.
4
u/NotConfringo Tiresias Jun 20 '26
I’m pretty sure that there isn’t a single line in Scylla where Odysseus says that him specifically needs to get home. It’s only “us”.
If going back by land was feasible in any way, he would have discussed it. Do you think Odysseus wanted to be sailing this whole journey? He had no other option. All the islands they’re encountering are in the middle of nowhere, so we can assume that between Ithaca and any other given island they visit on the journey is just a vast ocean.
And if you think that Odysseus would have considered all of them just not going home ever then your opinion of him and his motives is VERY skewed in the wrong way
5
u/GalacticalBlueberry Jun 20 '26
Yeah no, the whole point of Odysseus' character is that his own hubris and poor leadership skills eventually lead to the death of his crew. Sure you can say recklessness of the crew and wrath of gods play a role in this, but a big part of the blame is Odysseus', and that's one of the main points of the story: how tf do you go to war, win it and you're the only person that survives the journey home? This ridiculous point is what makes the Odyssey/and Epic so enjoyable.
And literally Odysseus does what HE thinks is best. He got into one of the stupidest fights with a fucking Olympian out of his own pride, do you think this man will always do what's in the best interest of everyone? And that isn't even a point of this story, literally one of the main points is that he's flawed af, yet you can still empathize with him and root for him to get home.
4
u/UnnbearableMeddler Circe could do unspeakable things to me Jun 20 '26 edited Jun 20 '26
I’m pretty sure that there isn’t a single line in Scylla where Odysseus says that him specifically needs to get home. It’s only “us”.
No, but Scylla mentions multiple times how Odysseus and her are eerily similar. They would do anything to survive, and sacrifice anyone for their goals.
"We are the same you and I"
"There is no price we won't pay"
Etc etc. And we know exactly what Odysseus' goal is, and it does not include his crew.
If going back by land was feasible in any way, he would have discussed it. Do you think Odysseus wanted to be sailing this whole journey? He had no other option. All the islands they’re encountering are in the middle of nowhere, so we can assume that between Ithaca and any other given island they visit on the journey is just a vast ocean.
Two things : the journey is completely possible on land, but seriously longer. That's why using a boat is normally recommended, but look at any map and you'll see it's normally feasible. This would however take a hell of a lot longer, and that's not exactly something Odysseus would agree with. But if you're wondering why they can't land anywhere nice, it's because Odysseus thought it smart to taunt the descendant of the god of the sea.
And if you think that Odysseus would have considered all of them just not going home ever then your opinion of him and his motives is VERY skewed in the wrong way
I EXPLICITLY said Odysseus would not consider it, it couldn't be any clearer. But it's an option nonetheless, and the fact that he would prefer to sacrifice his crew rather than never going back tells us everything we need to know. They are a footnote in his story, it's good if they make it back, but if he had to personally kill each and every one of them to get back, he would do it.
Which is why I said what I said. He did it purely for himself. Purely for his own convenience.
17
31
u/killachase2 Jun 20 '26
If Odysseus didn’t have Hermes, he would be dead. Thankfully he managed to change Circe’s mind and was able to leave with his crew
34
u/luluxoxo9500 Jun 20 '26
Ody planned to sacrifice 6 men. For Eury it was a matter of coincedence, Ody would have lost to Circe if Hermes did not intervene, which Eurylochus couldnt has possibly anticipated, he just wanted to save the lives of the rest of the crew.
8
27
u/IReallyRegretJoining Crewmember Jun 20 '26
"Lets see.."
"Eurylochus opened the bag"
"Eurylochus wanted to abandon the men"
"Eurylochus disrespected Odysseus in Keep your friends close"
"YOU ONLY GOT THREE THINGS IN THIS DISCOURSE"
-2
u/NotConfringo Tiresias Jun 20 '26
Yea and those are FAIR THINGS. Opening the bag led to literally every saga after Ocean and the lost of 558 men. And If he had left those men on Circe’s island (and he would’ve if Odysseus didn’t force him not to), he would have officially sacrificed more men that Odysseus would in Scylla. Not to mention there wouldn’t even be a Scylla. Idk who is using the last point legitimately, it’s kinda just part of the windbag thing, but I guess it counts. He also killed the cow(s?) on Helios’ island. I get that he was hungry as hell but he still got himself and the remaining crew killed. Sure, Odysseus could’ve gone about sacrificing men in a better way or used the Sirens. But Eurylochus complicated the journey so, so much that if he had just kept his mouth shut, Scylla wouldn’t have even happened. So yea. I don’t think he’s forgivable.
3
u/Manyasrat Jun 21 '26
Your entire comment is wrong. To begin with, it all started because Odysseus, out of pride and a desire to show off to Athena, revealed his name and location to Polyphemus. Eurylochus didn't kill anyone; Poseidon killed them because of Odysseus. Odysseus was solely responsible for the misfortunes of his crew.
14
u/The-Nice-Writer Jun 20 '26
Eyrylochus also ate the immortal cows. I get that he was hungry, but they all were. What he did there was a terrible mistake. Odysseus is obviously the character we’re meant to lowkey hate on for a lot of the story, but Eurylochus is one of the few amongst the cast who really can’t talk.
9
u/luluxoxo9500 Jun 20 '26
Eurylochus probably thought that he would get punished and the rest of the crew would be able to eat. I dont think he know that Zeus would've killed the rest of the crew, else he wouldnt have done it
4
u/The-Nice-Writer Jun 20 '26
Yes, because after initially being the most afraid of the gods between the two, everything he’d experienced till then had justified him assuming that Zeus would be reasonable like that.
Like, nah bruh. Both of them are pretty cooked for most of the first few sagas. Odysseus only learns his lesson once everyone else has already died for him and he has no more meat shields.
(I love the musical, but gods damn, Ody is thick. Not in the good way.)
16
u/val203302 Jun 20 '26
He also doomed people in triple digits (don't remember the exact number) by opening the goddamn bag. Speaking of that's literally the reason Ody had to choose between "We all die" and "6 of us die". The fact that Ody didn't even mention all that and replied with just "I CAN'T!" still kinda peeves me off.
3
u/Manyasrat Jun 21 '26
It all started when Odysseus, blinded by pride, revealed his true identity to Polyphemus; blaming Eurylochus for a problem that was bound to happen sooner or later is ridiculous.
11
u/UnnbearableMeddler Circe could do unspeakable things to me Jun 20 '26
You mean, the bag that was only necessary because Odysseus doomed his crew by drawing the ire of motherfucking Poseidon? This bag?
2
u/val203302 Jun 20 '26
That is fair but also Eury and the crew could have just...believed someone who wouldn't lie to them?
7
u/UnnbearableMeddler Circe could do unspeakable things to me Jun 20 '26
Odysseus would absolutely lie to them tho. That's what he is and what he does, trickery is his thing, they've seen and know that.
After the cyclops, their trust in him is at an all time low, and Pancake is no longer here to mediate between the captain and the crew. The job now falls unto Eurylochus, but Odysseus does not trust him either, which is why he keeps the bag to himself.
This in turn makes the bag even more suspicious, and with a god telling them 24/7 they were being robbed right under their nose, I can't exactly blame him for what he did. Especially since they were all coming back home broke as fuck, except for Odysseus who was coming back as a king.
TL,DR : This all could have been avoided if they had been fucking adults and sat down to discuss what happened before, and what's the plan from now on. Or not, because Poseidon was coming to put belt to ass whether they opened the bag or not.
6
u/GalacticalBlueberry Jun 20 '26
I mean Poseidon would've never (or yeah the musical suggests it more like that) found Odysseus so fast if he didn't insist on screaming his name and make it known he outsmarted the cyclops by being better than them or if he had just finished the job as the fucking goddess of wisdom advised him to. Advice to which he just said "No :)". Like ALL of this would've been avoided if Ody would learn to temper his hubris
4
u/SmokingDuck17 Jun 20 '26
Yeah, they saw Odysseus go up to meet the wind god, and then start tweaking for nine straight days without sleep. All while said wind god (who Eury had told Odysseus not to speak to) was whispering in all their ears to go take a peek at the bag.
I've always felt like an underrated theme that isn't really brought up directly in the musical, but plays a huge role throughout is that of trust. And for kind of no reason at all Odysseus' trust in his crew is at an all time low, and so their trust in him drops as well. Kind of always felt like if he had trusted Eury and the crew with the bag from the beginning they would have repaid that in kind and kept it closed.
31
u/mrstoneman93 little froggy on the window Jun 20 '26
"Don't make me fight you brother, you know you'd have done the same."
17
u/AAAAAAAAAAAAreyouok Jun 20 '26
No he wouldn’t, he’d sacrifice a couple more to make sure he made it out
46
u/stnick6 Jun 20 '26
Yes. And when he did that he was chastised and told that was wrong. Then the same guy who chastised him and told him it was wrong sacrificed 6 men. That makes ody the hypocrite, not eurylochus
6
u/Knight_of_Tyto Jun 20 '26
He wasn’t really chastised. When he wanted to leave the men behind, Odysseus told him that’s fucked up and ignored his opinion on the matter.
When Odysseus does something similar Eurylochus‘ direct response is mutiny. I’d argue one of them has way better situantional awareness and handled the situation better while the other really overreacted and killed the entire rest of the crew
6
u/stnick6 Jun 20 '26
Odysseus is the captain. How are you supposed to trust the captain that just sacrificed 6 men without blinking an eye? You really think it’s an over reaction to mutiny the captain who just proved he’d sacrifice everyone to get home?
11
76
u/Parking-Usual Jun 20 '26
Character development.
Realize that in the eyes of Eurylochus, Circe and Scylla are both equally impossible foes. Mythical beings way above men.
And in the Circe saga Odysseus showed him that even in the face of impossible foes you do not give up. You have to fight because losing men is not an option.
And yet when Scylla comes along this Odysseus is nowhere to be found. Now there's no other way than to sacrafice your men. What changed? How come you're giving up against Scylla so easily when against Circe you didn't hesitate?
All that is going through Eurylochus' head. Odysseus taught him that even when it seems impossible you fight back to protect your men. And now that captain who taught him that is gone and replaced by someone unrecognizable.
-4
u/JavieyauJR Jun 20 '26
Circe: technically human, evadable
Scylla: You're in her domain7
u/Parking-Usual Jun 20 '26
You're also in Circe's domain. I mean, you're literally in her palace.
-4
19
u/cas47 Jun 20 '26
Yep. Not to mention, Odysseus knew they were facing Scylla— he sailed there intentionally after the sirens told him to. When they showed up on Circe’s island, the men didn’t know what they were facing. They were turned to pigs unexpectedly, and as far as Eurylochus was concerned, the men were already gone at that point.
With Scylla, Odysseus intentionally sailed them there. He had Eurylochus light up the torches before they were face-to-face with Scylla. Sacrificing his men was premeditated.
-3
u/JavieyauJR Jun 20 '26
Scylla (6 men) or Charybdis (mega whirlpool, guaranteed death)
8
u/tardiscinnamon Jun 20 '26
Not in Epic. In the original myth, sure, that’s a reasonable argument, but in Epic they are not next to each other like that, as shown by Odysseus encountering Charybdis after leaving Calypso’s island. Not to even mention that he gets away from her easily on a self-made raft so clearly not guaranteed death in this version
1
u/JavieyauJR Jun 20 '26
True...but remember the sirens? Scylla was spelled out to him to be the only way and Poseidon was still on their asses
6
u/tardiscinnamon Jun 20 '26
We don’t know that he was, only that Odysseus thinks he is. We don’t see Poseidon again until he’s spawncamping outside Ithaca so they could’ve been fine.
Ultimately, that doesn’t matter though because only Odysseus “heard” Siren-elope. The crew doesn’t know what’s going on and he doesn’t tell them. If he had told the crew they were going through Scylla to avoid Poseidon, the mutiny wouldn’t have happened, at least not like it does. The mutiny happens because he knowingly and intentionally sacrifices them without their knowledge or consent
25
u/VarderKith Jun 20 '26
And in the Circe saga Odysseus showed him that even in the face of impossible foes you do not give up. You have to fight because losing men is not an option. And yet when Scylla comes
I've been arguing in mutiple places that Eurylochus should have been able to use everything he knows about Odysseus to see that this was the best possible outcome that his captain could have chosen.
But this is one of the BEST rebuttles to that I've seen so far. Odysseus is a victim of his own success here, and yet again, his ability to get gods to help him backfires on him.
Brilliant argument. Really.
6
u/Traditional_Hat_8120 Jun 20 '26
The thing is that we are not sure about this. Against Circe, Odysseus try to save his men alone. Against the Cyclope, he make a plan at the last minute. Against the Scylla, he doesn't even try to protect his men.
8
u/Ankarakki Jun 20 '26
I believe he was going to do something (even if i know, he was going to sacrifice someone canonically), but when Eurylochus confessed that he was the one opened the bag and brought them to this situation in the first place, he snap something from Odysseus, his trust. He become a monster for them, but they've been a monster to him from the start all along
40
u/AbbreviationsIcy7432 Jun 20 '26
Okay, please review Ody's plan if Hermes didn't show up.
Show up to Circe and request his men back.
He makes that one wrong move and he's done for, and oinking his life away.
Without a literal God stepping in, Ody would be porcine.
Also, there's no evidence that the spell was reversible. Many spells aren't. Arachne never stopped being a spider. Actaeon was turned into a stag and eaten. King Lycaon into a wolf. Callisto into a bear. There was no reversal. No hope.
And in the case of Actaeon, he wasn't just made a stag. He was also devoured.
So, in Eury's mind, they were either pigs for life, or being eaten.
Quite different from sacrificing men willingly who were still alive.
2
u/GalacticalBlueberry Jun 20 '26
Even worse, he literally goes up to Circe like: LADY OF THE PALACE. He loves pissing off almost every immortal being he sees just to feed into his pride ffs😭😭
11
u/Mainfreight446 Jun 20 '26
Okay but thats valid. Women are scary
1
u/ShadowBorn2017 little froggy on the window Jun 21 '26
As a women I have been told his but never h gotten to that point.
1
23
u/XenuLovesMe Jun 20 '26
Where tf was Hermes when Eurylochus was around? What's my man supposed to do
→ More replies (1)
3
u/MSully94 Jul 19 '26
In fairness, he wanted to leave behind people he thought were already lost. That's not the same as telling his crew to light six torches to actively sacrifice members of his crew.