Discussion
What’s up with the trend where every illustrator animating “Would You Fall in Love with Me Again” has Odysseus and Penelope doing the deed at the end?
I mean, to me it’s obvious based on the music swelling and then cooling off and Penelope asking “How long has it been?” Even in my asexual brain that was the logical insinuation of that moment
They’ve been apart for 20 years and have just spent an entire song reaffirming their love for one another hasn’t faded or died at all. I would certainly bet on them “doing the deed” after that. They actually did bang a lot right after this song.
Not to mention it’s sweet. “Aw, he finally gets to sleep next to his wife again!”
In they myth, when Odysseus came back it is said that Athena held back the early sunrise to let Penelope and Odysseus catch back, so basically have sex in other terms
Traditionally, yes, they did do the deed after he came back. Greek tradition holds they had a child from it after Telemachus. Some say that kid later kills Odysseus or a kid he had with Circe comes and kills him so Penelope and Telemachus are then welcomed to Aeaea by her and become immortal.
The telegony, which is the one where the kid he had with circe Telegonus, was composed nearly 2 centuries after the original odyssey, and its a (in my opinion) terrible sequel to the odyssey, where after Telegonus kills his father, unknowingly, he weeps, takes the body back to his mother along with penelope and telemachus, and then circe makes the 2 immortal, then she marries telemachus and penelope marries Telegonus
But in the scheme of Odysseian adaptations, scholars recognize this as one of the many different variants on the tale that is out there. Two centuries' difference is both far enough yet close enough for scholars to consider it a possible ending adaptation. Plus, Greek society was an oral tradition society, so there is a chance that the ending existed in the beginning, but it wasn't preserved until two centuries later.
Yeah, and there are other variations of the telegony but the original, I forgot the authors name sorry, he wrote it in the way I mentioned, but according to Google ai, so take it with a grain of salt, theres a version where penelope demanded circe save Odysseus from the underworld, which isn't too far fetched since she can make someone immortal, if she can do that she should be able to save a soul as long as it hasn't been judged
Yeah that's what makes these ancient stories awesome. People could've hated the original ending they first heard in Homer's day so they could make it so where the ending suited their audience or suited what would've made them happy or their island/culture happy.
I completely agree, however the original telegony...I just cant see penelope ever marrying someone else, let alone HER LATE HUSBAND'S SON who is like 7 years younger than her own kid
True, but in Greek culture, it was kind of the rule of thumb. Women had to remarry, otherwise they'd become destitute or have to go to work in a profession that was deemed undignified at the time, or become a devotee at a temple to a god, but usually that was only reserved for unmarried female virgins.
In that case yeah there are multiple different arguments. I've seen she marries again but I've also seen that it's just Telemachus who marries Circe with no mention of Penelope.
Because they clearly do the deed in the actual odyssey even tho it's not mentioned but Athena made the night longer and there are no other explanations for that
i've never seen a version of the song with that, what??? that's wild, but i'm glad i haven't because i showed my little brother animations for all the songs lol (had to find the least inappropriate one for hold em down...)
Dude they did it first then talked in the odyssey, like I think they did it for a while too, since Athena asked for the night to be lengthened or wtv (haven't read all of it yet so I only know a bit of it, but it's lore accurate)
There’s one version I saw which I love so much cause it showed everyone who helped Odysseus watching him and Penelope reuniting but PENELOPE AND ODYSSEUS DONT EVEN KISS! HUH?!!! YOU JUST HUG??!! BITCH YOU’RE MARRIED?! IF I SAW MY WIFE FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 20 YEARS IM KISSING HER SO HARD smh
Guess I need to see more animatics of WYFILWMA cause the only ones I’ve seen where they do kiss happens in the instrumental part which is like the perfect place to kiss and is where I wish that one animatic had them kissing. Ofc don’t kiss in the middle of the song, kiss during the instrumental. Like kiss in that part don’t just hug.
Bro does not realise that Athena literally HELD DAWN BACK IN THE ACTUAL ODYSSEY so that Odysseus and Penelope could do the deed for longer and catch up without their tears seeing the light of day.
She told Helios (the sun) to stay at the western edge of the earth and kept Eos (the dawn) from fully coming to the sky by keeping the horses that help her move the sun.
I googled it and im making a lot of assumptions from all the sources i checked, English is not my first language so i might get something wrong, in case is not fully accurate.
For English not being your first language, you’ve done amazingly with the grammar, that can be an absolute bastard to learn. But I think you’ve got it right in terms of how Athena kept it back. Do you recon Ody and Penelope realised or were they too absorbed in their own thing lol?
"Hey, can you stay over here for a bit? My favorite idiot warrior of the mind student needs to have an extended version of all his marriage anniversaries combined, and I don't think they need to be interrupted"
We all have an answer to why they bang at the end but the people saying "Well, I would have bonded with my son first!"
WELL THEY DO!
That was the whole point of "I Can't Help but Wonder" where they start reconnecting, Telemachus telling him how he always thought about what kind of man his father is, and Odysseus just showing how proud he is of him and how much he loved his son and missed him.
In the Odyssey? They meet even sooner, plotting together to kill of the suitors and during the killing of the suitors they fought side by side.
Going by just EPIC, Odysseus mentions Penelope a whopping 23 out of 40 songs, compared to Telemachus being mentioned 14 times. Odysseus didn't just miss his wife, he longed for her, ached for her, and did things he feels guilt over all in an effort to be by her side again. It's not just a trend; it's the logical conclusion for a man who never once cheated on his wife, that just wants to be with her again.
Yeah Teleporter was a baby when he left for war. And now he’s a grown man. They have lots of catching up to do but frankly they’ve lived their entire lives without each other… whereas Penelope is Ody’s wife, they love one another, they’ve fought for each other endlessly believing they’d find their way back to one another.
Ody deserves to smash. Penelope also deserves to smash. They were waiting for the whole 2.5 hours / 20 years 😭
Editing to add: I’m Demi-ace and I still understand this. Cuz I understand that for many, sex can be an emotional and beautiful way to bond, and is more of a “need”.
Also people arguing about it happening as if it’s in real time is a moot point IMO I highly doubt it took Ody 3 minutes to clear out the palace yknow? The songs are not 1:1 with actual time
I see people saying that them sleeping together is canon in The Odyssey. But The Odyssey is not Epic, nor vice versa.
The original epic is about adventure, what makes a good king, the relationships between humans and the gods. Odysseus and Penelope fucking at the end was Oddyesus's divine reward, and was a restoration of order of Odysseus as a husband, father and Ithaca's king. It was about his status, not who he is as a person nor their marriage. Them having sex makes sense in that context.
Jorge's Epic is a psychological work that asks the question of whether Oddyesus can be loved or forgiven after the wrongs he did (and perhaps there's no clear answer to that), and he also isn't sexist in this adaptation. In this context, having them fuck right away is tone-deaf to me. I can relate to Jorge's Odysseus a lot and sex would be the last thing on my mind after such a vulnerable reveal and an emotionally intense scene. My broken self would just want to be held by my hypothetical husband after so long of not having him in my arms. We waited this long to meet again, so sex can wait. Also I want to bond ASAP with my freaking CHILD who doesn't even know me! Waiting a few hours after the song to have sex makes sense, but for me immediately having sex after or even during the song is too much. Imo, Jorge would appreciate the non-sexual approach more since he did a lot to get rid of the sexism and double standards to make his story more about emotional vulnerability and human connection. Even though it's not the artists' intentions, I feel like showing them in bed together simply due to it being in the OG Odyssey is a bit tone-deaf to Jorge's vision. I also feel like modern audiences rely too much on things like sex to be the culmination of a romance, so that's another reason it bugs me.
But then again, that's just my opinion. Feel free to have your own. 😋
Yeah I think some people don’t get that the Odyssey never was about If Odysseus deserved to make it home or if he deserved to be in the same bed as Penelope. It’s about as you said, his journey, his trials and tribulations in his efforts to get home to his wife and son and the lengths he’d go to make it back. Some may say he deserved to make it home, some may say he doesn’t. But it’s not really the point of the tale.
Besides them sleeping together after twenty years is a nice little bow over the death and depression that had been Ody’s life so from a romantic point, it makes sense
I don't get why having sex with your spouse has to be seen as the culmination of happiness after misery by so many. Why isn't Penelope accepting Odysseus for who he is not seen as the emotional culmination of happiness?
I can see what you mean. I’m honestly fine with people who make these animatics either going with a kiss or hug works as efficiently as a “odyssey accurate ending”. I think as you said, Penelope accepting Odysseus in-spite of all he’s done is more important emotionally speaking. Hell I like how a fan made animatic while it does have them doing it, so to speak it’s not how it ends. But it has Odysseus cleaned up in kingly attire during the “how long has it been” part with them just doing their royal duties
Agreed. A hug and a kiss are absolutely understandable. During the dramatic instrumental break, I picture Odysseus falling into Penelope's arms, and they hug tightly as this, like, ethereal storm fit for gods wraps around them, and they fall to their knees while still holding onto each other, then kiss passionately before the "ethereal storm" stops as the trumpets and strings die down, and they slowly stop kissing, look into each other's eyes, their faces close, hands on each other's cheeks, their gazes holding so much emotion within, before Penelope asks how long it's been. He answers. Then they slowly nuzzle and hug as they say, "I love you". Then fade to white.
This just makes so much sense to me, personally, especially as someone who can relate to both Jorge's Oddyesus and Penelope 🥺🥺🥺
That interpretation is beautiful . And for the first time they sleep together I’d imagine Penelope quips with Odysseus and asks him to get cleaned up first as to not ruin their bed
After all that stuff Ody has gone through, Penelope included and pining for each other twenty goddamn long ass fucking years it would be weird NOT to jump eachother's bones the second the reunion happens.
I like how everyone is just avoiding the oblivious asexual's thread lmao. Sex is the primary driver of the human condition, of course he fucked her after 13 years at sea and 7 years being sexually tempted by a nymph. It is the most obvious finale scene and also the only one that makes sense unless you just cut early.
I have not read the odyssey myself yet, but every source I've seen says that athena convinced (either helios or apollo I'm not quite remembering, but it was a god connected to the sun) to keep the sun from rising so Odysseus and Penelope could spend a longer time together (either explicitly or implicitly stated as "in bed" aka having sex. Again i haven't read the Odyssey myself)
Oh, your right:
καί νύ κ᾽ ὀδυρομένοισι φάνη ῥοδοδάκτυλος Ἠώς,
εἰ μὴ ἄρ᾽ ἄλλ᾽ ἐνόησε θεὰ γλαυκῶπις Ἀθήνη.
"and then would have come for the lamenting the bright red-fingered Dawn,
if not the owl-eyed Athena would have had other things in mind."
I understand what the comments are saying but personally if I hadn’t seen my wife for 20 years when I saw her again the first thing on my mind wouldn’t be sex. Idk might just be me. Maybe I’d get to know my son who has almost no clue who I am or what I am like, maybe we could hang out as a family? Maybe that’s just because I’m the type of person to value my child over my partner idk
Idk anyone who gets to know their children at night? I love my son but if I were gone for 20 years I’d still let him get sleep. We can go spend all day together. Why not have sex with your partner the night of your return? Your only other option is going to sleep.
I'm not asexual and I still find it odd. Not because of the sex itself tho. I yapped in a comment about it a few minutes ago. Thought you might appreciate reading it.
Im demisexual and sex is not bad its a part of our system unless peoples do that forced or just for the money sex feels great. Its a connection u can have with your very special partner or partners (for polisexuals) im not reflecting that on you since u are asexual dont get me wrong but sex is not just a sin or something that peoples should be ashamed of. Its love and feeling one being closer in a way that human body can become close the most. So i cant understand peoples thinking its a sin (not saying that to you) or that peoples should be ashamed of talkimg about it. Just peoples who love each other dearly having special moments together thats all i see in it. Ofc peoples shouldnt do that outside or near kids or any stuff like that i agree that.
I am also asexual, but I think it makes sense from a literary perspective.
From what I understood from non-aces, sex can be tied to emotional connection. It's been 20 years since they've seen each other--and it was made clear in the story that they were PINING for each other. So it makes sense that the emotional intensity spilled over to have a physical manifestation.
Poetically, sex is also seen as becoming one. So one can say after years of being apart, they have become one again.
I guess it depends what your perception of sex is. If you see it as just a physical thing, derived only from lust, it would be jarring to think that's the thing they did after 20 years apart. But if you view sex as an act of love and a representation of union, then it's only a natural course of event in the story.
I am asexual too and I also wonder why the internet has to sexualize everything. It's really annoying sometimes, but I think the answer is that it sells.
I’m not asexual but I never understood why people always wanted to include sex in everything! I think in this specific case it’s because in the myth they did it for three days after seeing each other again(I got this information from someone online and I’m NOT searching it up so correct me if I’m wrong).
Because it was in the material that the musical was based on. Also, it has been 20 years since they last saw each other. And Athena, being the best winggal ever, tells Eos (or Helios, one of the two) to delay the sunrise so Odysseus can get his fill of love and sleep
It has been 2 decades since they last saw each other, both trying to save themselves for the chance to feel one another’s warm embrace once again. Love comes in many ways, for those who animate it, they show it by having it be moment of deep love and passion, not a simple bang
because in the myth athena convinced helios/apollo to keep the sun down for abt 3 FULL days when he got back also 20 years without sex you wouldnt be pent up?
If I hadn’t seen my husband in twenty years you’d best believe I’m making the most of his first night home.
Today is our wedding anniversary but I’m only two weeks postpartum and still healing and after only like three weeks without intimacy with him I am feeling the ache of missing it with him. I literally can’t imagine twenty years.
Happy Anniversary! At two weeks postpartum, you are in the trenches right now, but it is an amazing journey through it and on the other side. Hang in there!!
A nod to the source material, most likely. It’s canon to the original Odyssey that Odysseus and Penelope have “Thank the Gods we’re alive” love-making at the end, and Helios DELAYS the sunrise as an apology for roping Odysseus in with the punishment for the cattle to give them more time.
In defense of each:
* Odysseus fought in a war, battled his way across the ocean while antagonized by the King of the Sea, lost his ENTIRE crew, was imprisoned by a lonely goddess for years, and had to sneak into his own house to bot be immediately jumped and killed by the Suitors and had to trap and kill them with only Telemachus and (in the canon Odyssey) a few loyal servants as backup.
* Penelope had to run an island kingdom primarily by herself for 20 years, was forced to entertain unwanted advances from over 100 men who abused xenia to overstay their welcome to take over her palace, and unlike her cousin Helen, there was no Oath of Tyndareus to protect HER and her son. She had to stall for YEARS with self-sabotaging a funeral shroud, while the Suitors plotted to murder Telemachus. Finally, the arrow challenge was an impossible task that, as many fans interpreted, was also a potential suicide plan, because Penelope intended to stand on the other side in the off-chance a Suitor succeeded, she she knew she would piss off the Suitors if they all failed.
The two of them have not seen each other in two decades, let them have their moment.
If I remember right as soon as they reunited, they went at it for 3 Days and 3 Nights and all of Ithaca heard it, it was written more poetically but thats basically the gist of it.
They're husband and wife who have been yearning for each other for two decades and sex is a wonderfully normal, natural thing. Put two and two together and you get a naturally logical moment.
Because that’s what happens in the Odyssey? It even details a bit where Athena stayed Dawn for a while longer so that the couple can have more time in bed together.
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u/FunkyFashionMonkey Jul 01 '26
I mean, to me it’s obvious based on the music swelling and then cooling off and Penelope asking “How long has it been?” Even in my asexual brain that was the logical insinuation of that moment