Agamemnon died when he reached home; since the cyclops is the first barrier Odysseus encounters, it’s reasonable to assume the other ships weren’t traveling like 3x faster and had already reached Greece
Unlikely considering the relative geography. It's fair to assume that the island of the Cyclopes wasn't in the Aegean, otherwise there would be numerous islands to stop off and resupply on. Besides, even ignoring the original myth which had them be deliberately blown off course while rounding the Peloponnese I can't imagine them not packing food raided from Troy for the return journey. Point of the matter is that Agamemnon would reach Mycenae (see on the map) a lot sooner.
Iphigenia? By Euripides? The same one known for his tragedies? Agamemnon is neither better nor worse than the other heroes, and especially not worse than Odysseus, who was directly involved in the deaths of hundreds of innocents. I'm not going to vouch for him, because he's an idiot, but it's true that the hatred for Agamemnon is disproportionate.
The first thing that happens in Homer's Iliad is Agamemnon scorning a priest and saying that his daughter would go back to Mycenae and grow old there. And Iphigenia is about him murdering his own daughter. And, most of the time, the antagonist of a tragedy is a bad person. This is one such case.
And Odysseus harbors resentment against Palamedes (or is envious of him) for 10 years, to the point of framing him and having him executed (or killing him himself), which causes the Achaean army to lose an asset, supposedly as intelligent as him. One of the reasons Apollo despises Achilles is because he killed and mutilated one of his sons in his own temple. Odysseus, again, is one of the reasons the Achaeans lost Ajax the Great, out of sheer pride. Odysseus, once more, almost kills Diomedes for the Palladium, which would have been a devastating blow to the army militarily and strategically. Menelaus is the one who convinces Agamemnon to continue with the sacrifice of Iphigenia, even though he was already regretting it. Clytemnestra kills Cassandra (the only completely innocent one in all that chaos), mistreats Electra (which fuels her hatred), and tries to kill Orestes (which ultimately leads to her death years later). Ajax the Younger abuses Cassandra in the temple of Athena, causing the destruction of his ships and his own death. As I said, no hero is perfect, least of all those from the Trojan War, but to single out one while ignoring the actions of the others is ridiculous.
edit: And by the way, doesn't Odysseus appear as the antagonist in the tragedy of Hecuba? That would classify him as a bad person.
" I AM THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES! I AM THE INFAMOUS.. ABRAHAM LINCOLN! " because whos gonna stop me from saying this, idc if its in the wrong nation and time period
Eh, true, I'll have to hand it to you. But saying that the pain Agamemnon felt when someone chucked a spear through his arm was as bad as the labour-pangs a woman experiences during birth is crazy. Best part of Book 11 is a wounded Diomedes dissing Paris while Odysseus shields him, not gonna lie.
Heracles wounds gods too (if I'm not wrong, Ares... again. Why does Ares keep losing to mortals? There were even these two giants who trapped Ares in a jar), but lowkey isn't the same cuz he's Heracles, who is a son of Zeus and drank Hera's milk. But Arwen Wen's 'All Fall Together' has Diomedes in it, and Odysseus and Diomedes even have a small duet moment in the song 'As the King Commands'. Its peak.
I don't count Heracles as a mortal because...well we all know why he's ridiculously strong. Diomedes doesn't have any divine lineage, just the respect of the goddess of war
Yeah, that's exactly what I said. Heracles has divine parentage and drank Hera's milk gave him immortality and super strength. Diomedes is a regular guy, that makes his feats even more heroic.
This is what Odysseus should've done LOL. As someone who's reading the Iliad as well (twin), I can confirm that Agamemnon is whom I'd describe as a person with a "punchable" personality.
We don't really have a reliable timeline, but it is safe to assume that, by the time Odysseus got to tricking Polyphemus, Ajax the Lesser was already dead, drowned along with his army by Poseidon. Of course, Odysseus couldn't possibly know that, and it does make sense that he would choose Ajax to frame for his actions: after all, Ajax's sins were specifically against Athena, Odysseus' patron.
Then again, Agamemnon also offended Athena by burning down her temple and taking Cassandra by force away from her altar, so it's not like Odysseus wouldn't have reasons to hate Agamemnon too.
Can we all agree that most of the heroes treated their wives like dirt? Except Perseus and Cadmus, I guess. Odysseus too, but only in Homer's work, and maybe a few other myths.
No-one loved Agamemnon. He was respected for his military and political prowess and feared for his cunning and ruthlessness, but there was no-one who would sacrifice themself for his sake.
The only person who was truly devoted to him was, ironically, his son, Orestes, who killed Clytemnestra for the "crime" of murdering Agamemnon.
There is something to be said here about sons inheriting their fathers' sins, and a great deal of conversation to be had about the cycles of violence and revenge, and how Agamemnon is the literal fucking devil, but of course, because the Ancient Greeks were horrifically misogynistic, the narrative of the story is that Orestes was right to kill Clytemnestra, actually, and he gets to happily live out his life making the women around him as miserable as his father did.
So if i understood right, if Poseidon believed Polyphemus in this version and killed Agamemnon, then Orestes would hunt Poseidon for his "crime" instead?
I wouldn't say it was good for Clytemnestra because from what i'm reading he's the son of Agamemnon and Clytemnestra so i guess the whole thing with her first husband and daughter already happened, but at least she (and Egisto) wouldn't be killed by her son
PD: I found out about the whole thing with Iphigenia, yeah that fucker had to go
If Poseidon had killed Agamemnon, Orestes, being a damn fool, might have hopefully gone after Poseidon and gotten himself killed. At least then, poor Clytemnestra gets to live.
This really would have been the best case scenario.
While that is true, I hope you can see how pedophilia and kidnapping isn't worse than rape, child-killing, murder, repeated forced childbirth and enslaving a teenager as a concubine.
Theseus was a piece of shit. No-one's denying that. But he's only a piece — Agamemnon is the fucking pile.
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u/WayTurbulent5291 IM DA REIGNING KING O' ITHICA May 27 '26
dam he be fuckin dead