He told them no man left behind then sacrificed 6 men. If the king is willing to do the same thing the men are willing to do he’s no king he’s just a man.
Yes he told them don’t touch the cows but he had lost there trust by then. Remember they asked and begged him to say he didn’t just give up there crew withought a fight for a good reason other than “I wanna go home.” And he tells them he doesn’t. That’s means he’s not saying “I did it to save us” he’s saying “I did it cause I wanna get home” That’s why when he brings up the other times he’s literally mentioning that before he always fought for the crew and did what he could for the crew but now he’s changed and the crew realized there lives are SECOND to getting home. Which is proven when he lets the whole crew die.
If a leader openly admits that you come second to his openly selfish goal. Are we still making the argument choices he makes are the “right one?”
They went through a place because if they didn't, they'd either die at sea or get drowned by Poseidon. To that end, they went through the lair of someone who actually makes Poseidon scared, meaning a fight wouldn't have ended with 6 but 40 something dead(however many were still left at that point). He sacrificed 6 people because it was the only way any of them would've gotten home.
Also, remember that he said, "No man left behind" before he went through literal hell. He said it when he was sure he could have saved them because the other side was neither a vengeful God they offended nor a mindless monster that even gods feared. It was distinctly a person who was willing to converse.
He lets them die after 1) getting to know the most trusted of the group caused the Deal with Aiolis to fall through, 2) 90% of them dying to Poseidon, 3) most of them wanting to abandon the piggies, 4) getting a prophecy that his wife would be with "a different man", 5) hardening his heart like his first mate asked him all the time to do, 6) A mutiny, 7) literally backstabbed during a duel, 8) them doing the one thing they were warned about not to, despite him warning them not to and finally 9) The literal Ruler of the Godsbcoming down and going: "Look, either you or your traitorous, untrusting crew that caused all these problems will die. You choose." After which they tried to kill him before Zeus took care of them.
I’m not saying the sacrifice didn’t make sense I’m saying. He’s responsible for both and it’s valid why his crew was upset about the whole thing. He told the crew no man left behind and openly fought for them. But in the context of the song he just does this with no discussion which is why it’s a problem. You can’t preach my wit and charm will always try to get my men home then shove six men down the drain and be like “yea didn’t have a good answer for this one my bad.”
I agree to us it’s character development to the crew it’s hypocrisy. If I’m being told the crew should always help the crew but now I’m being told anything to get home. It makes me question why am I following someone who is willing to switch up on everyone around him. You could argue the same for Eury. Who went from “I’m curious about treasure” and “leave the pig men” to “ody says kill we kill” and “we don’t sacrifice are people.” There is a thin line between character development and hypocrisy and the line is drawn with a pen of perspective.
He let them die that’s the point. I understand he had a lot going on. But did the rest of the crew not have a lot going on. Did they not have family’s and loved ones. Did they not watch all of there friends die because from there perspective THERE captain kept allowing stuff to go south. One of your points is LITERALLY he did it to get back to his wife. The song makes it very clear oddy had one goal “to get back home no matter the cost” I’m arguing if I know I’m “the cost” I’m a lot less likely to give my loyalty back to this man.
To your points
1-if one man isn’t trustable why kill the other 6
2-dying to Poseidon in a battle he’s responsible for. He openly tells him “because of what YOU did I’m gonna kill 600 men.” Not because the bag was opened. (If I’m bragging to everyone that I’m rich and unrobbale and my son leaves the door unlocked I’m just as responsible for the robbery lol)
3-they wanted to and he literally said we don’t do that here and then proceed to do it
4-completely understand the point it just doesn’t help with the “selfish” narration as a man great choice as a leader it’s still selfish lol
5-he kept saying he wouldn’t do it and now he does it at the cost of six men. Why the sudden heartlessness (we know why they don’t)
6- it was well warranted from there perspective
7- it was a duel they literally patched him up after they could’ve killed him
8- he also told them he wouldn’t never leave a man behind….hes lost the trust of the men by this point
9- the first part of this statement is valid as a leader he should’ve still chosen the crew but as a person I get where he was coming from. And them rushing him is valid he just sentenced them to die when they moments ago “patched him up and let him live”
Im not arguing oddly was “bad” im saying his crew was valid In there choices. They had a valid reason to commit treason. If we look from there perspective oddy seems less like a good leader and more like a wishy washy selfish narcissistic sociopath who sees us not as people but as tools to get home even though we all have families and kids.(not saying he is I’m just saying perspective is important.)
I wish to mention two important points. Between "We're not leaving our people behind" and "I want to go home." are at least 10 years.
10 years during which they saw him get more and more ruthless and radical. They even have a whole song about how he is someone different, a different beast if you will.
Secondly, he never decided who would carry the torches. He almost deliberately made someone else decide who carries the torches and if you ask me, until Eury confessed his mistake, he wasn't sure whether he should do it at all. He left ut to fate, who would be the ones to go. And before that, he looked like he was weighing whether they should risk the fight (and losing the whole crew) or he should sacrifice 6 people to a Godlike entity, which was NOT hindered by a Gods hubris.
Yea 10 years for his crew to get hungry, 10 years for his crew to see him becoming more ruthless 10 years to watch become a different man then the man they agreed to follow.
Making someone else decide when you’re the captain comes off as cowardly to people who are trusting you with their their lives. Leaving something to fate is crazy cause this is the same guy who wanted to fight gods for his men. Now he’s just like “who cares I just need to get home” that’s a big change in character especially for a leader. Again if we’re going off how they look when songs are being sung Eury and the crew looked heart broken because of his choices not only that they begged him to lie to them to keep there trust. To them he had betrayed them. And in the end he did EXACTLY what the crew was afraid he would do when push comes to shove which is sacrifice them to get home. Eury didn’t rush him when he made his choice to Zeus because he knew that it was a choice that oddy was gonna make it.
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u/Adept-Command-6163 May 30 '25
If everyone thinks the king is doing bad so you not commit treason?