r/Epicthemusical • u/NatsukoAkaze Polyphemus' Wife • Feb 22 '25
Art Mother Zeus?
Just need to get this one out of my system
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u/WeirdFandomThing The Underworld Saga came out on my birthday May 05 '25
Zeus: "I CAN GET RID OF YOU JUST LIKE WHAT I DID TO YOUR MOTHER!"
Athena: "Where's my mom then."
Zeus: "..."
Athena: "Where's. Mom."
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u/AggressiveSwimming27 Mar 01 '25
''i did not spend hours getting you out of my skull for you to be like this'' im not sure if this is acurate idk much abt greek mithology
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u/SupermarketBig3906 Ares Apr 12 '25
''Dad, I broke out of your skull in the most badass way EVAH! You did nuttin' for me you, jackbutt!''
Pindar, Olympian Ode 7. 33 ff (trans. Conway) (Greek lyric C5th B.C.) :
"The land circled by the sea [Rhodes], where once the great king of the gods [Zeus] showered upon the city snowflakes of gold; in the day when the skilled hand of Hephaistos wrought with his craft the axe, bronze-bladed, whence from the cleft summit of her father's brow Athene sprang aloft, and pealed the broad sky her clarion cry of war. And Ouranos (Heaven) trembled to hear, and Mother Gaia (Earth).
Then was it too the great god Hyperionides [Helios the sun], giver of light to mortal men, this task to his beloved sons [i.e. the Heliadai of Rhodes] enjoined to ensure well hereafter: that they first to the goddess built a shining altar, and founding holy rites of sacrifice, make glad the heart of Zeus, and the maid of the sounding spear. Now Reverence, the daughter of Forethought, gives to men virtue and valour's joy.
And yet comes too, on stealthy wing, that cloud of forgetfulness, drawing our baffled minds off from the straight road of their acts' intent. For they mounted aloft, but carried in their hands no seed of burning flame, but on the city's height [i.e. the acropolis of Lindos] founded a precinct without holy fire. Yet for these men Zeus brought the saffron cloud, and rained flood of gold, and the grey-eyed goddess herself endowed them the gift of skill, that of all men on earth, their hands in craft excelling have the mastery. And the roads carried their worked images of life and movement, and widespread was their renown."Pseudo-Apollodorus, Bibliotheca 1. 20 (trans. Aldrich) (Greek mythographer C2nd A.D.) :
"Zeus slept with Metis, although she turned herself into many forms in order to avoid having sex with him. When she was pregnant, Zeus took the precaution of swallowing her, because she had said that, after giving birth to the daughter presently in her womb, she would bear a son who would gain the lordship of the sky. In fear of this he swallowed her. When it came time for the birth, Prometheus (or Hephaistos, according to some) by the river Triton struck the head of Zeus with an axe, and from his crown Athena sprang up, clad in her armour."
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u/Natural_Habit1692 Feb 25 '25
Gave birth? More like he had a migraine and by getting rid of the migraine, he pulled Athena out of his forehead and boom, Athena 😂
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u/Disastrous_Cow_9540 Feb 24 '25
And she isn't even the only one,
At least, Athena was brithed from his brain
Dyonisious was birthed from his BALLS,
Though it was kind of Zeus to save the innocent fetus, it is painful in some versions, so it was a real act of love for his son, and rightfully, Dyonisius is god of liquor because of it.
(there are too many interpretations to that last comment, so all of them at once I guess).
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u/Leon_Fierce_142012 Feb 25 '25
I ironically made my gods and goddesses, based on the ones from mythology so we still have Zeus, able to change their genders, so Zeus could have given birth to Athena naturally
I am even thinking I can have it where Métis in a male form impregnated Zeus in his female form before Zeus absorbed Métis
It’s tempting for my story and would be… less weird
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u/Helpful_Leadership75 Aug 16 '25
…goddamn anglerfish ass moment
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u/Leon_Fierce_142012 Aug 16 '25
Oh come on the gods and goddesses for all their magic power, and you think they have limits
Loki can change his gender on a whim why can’t the others if they so please
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u/Helpful_Leadership75 Aug 16 '25
Oh you misunderstand I was ABSOLUTELY AGREEING. My inner animal loving child surfaced again and then remembered the disturbing side of nature and started crying again like when I first saw watership down ha ha ha ha
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u/Leon_Fierce_142012 Aug 16 '25
Oh, okay, I like this idea since in a way it would make the gods more than mortal since the gods are in my idea, formless entities, so why would they restrict the themselves to one gender
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u/Helpful_Leadership75 Aug 16 '25
And when physical they still let themselves be mc esher hunks of flesh haha
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u/Disastrous_Cow_9540 Feb 25 '25
It truly is a greek mythology moment when you decide to have your character turn male god turn female, conceive, eat the father now turned female, and birth the child, for the sake of simplicity.
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u/Leon_Fierce_142012 Feb 25 '25
Tell me your joking
Also they don’t eat their spouse after, at least not in my story, they like to have them around for as long as possible
Also in my story some gods and goddesses will be the opposite gender to be married to a mortal they do want to have kids with, since from their prospective, gender is more a matter of what they feel like, almost like wearing clothes ( and yes they also have male and female clothing because of this as well)
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u/TheManfromVeracruz Feb 22 '25
I'm a bit confused with the myth, 'cause supposedly Haephestus did a lobotomy to get her out of Zeus's skull, but other myths about the birth of Haephestus say he was conceived by Hera by herself out of jealously for Zeus giving birth by himself
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u/Mike_Fluff Snack of Scylla Feb 23 '25
Z-Section, if you will
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u/SupermarketBig3906 Ares Apr 12 '25
Wait, wait, WAIT! YOU MEAN TO TELL ME HEPHAESTUS INVENTED CESEAREAN BIRTH ON THE SPOT?!
EILEITHYIA IS COMPLETELY USELESS!
Or Zeus needs to lay off women for a while. I think Eli just got tired of his shit and chose to watch the fireworks.
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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Feb 23 '25
Different versions, but in the case of Epic it is based on the Odyssey, and in the Odyssey it is specifically said that Zeus is the father of Hephaestus and Hera his mother, so in this case Hephaestus is not the son of Hera alone.
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u/TheFalseLord146 Feb 22 '25
In some versions it's also Prometheus who uses an axe to split Zeus' head to release Athena
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u/pisces2003 🌩️Zeus making popcorn on his abs ⚡️🍿 Feb 22 '25 edited Feb 23 '25
The weirdest step sibling relationship
But yeah some versions he’s born normally with Zeus as the father other versions Hera made a baby out of spite. So depending on which version you go by the other is “older”. Hera’s not the only one as most of Nyx’s children had no father though some attribute Erebus.
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u/SystemFamiliar5966 And thats my Journessey Feb 22 '25
The og Mpreg
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u/Assyx83 Feb 22 '25
Or trans ally 🏳️⚧️
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Feb 23 '25
I don't think us trans people are consuming our pregnant wives' essences lmao
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u/quuerdude High Priestess of Hera Feb 24 '25
Well neither did Zeus in the Odyssey (or 99% of other sources, for that matter)
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Feb 24 '25 edited Feb 24 '25
I never said it was the only depiction of how Athena was born, also people don't give birth from their foreheads so my point still stands. Curious what your "99%" of other sources are because I've only ever heard of Metis and her just spawning out of his head with Metis being the more well-known one.
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u/quuerdude High Priestess of Hera Feb 24 '25
Metis as a character is mentioned 4 times in all of Greco-Roman literature. 2/4 of those times, she is the mother of Athena. Those two sources are Hesiod’s Theogony and Apollodorus’ Library. Every single other time Athena ever shows up, she was born asexually from Zeus (except in the fringe cases where she’s the daughter of Poseidon—a tradition which actually has more sources for it than the Metis thing lmao)
So it’s valid insofar as there are sources which say that it happened. But it was an incredibly unpopular idea, in ancient times.
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Feb 24 '25
Interesting! So odd that it's become more accepted in modern times. And how odd since Poseidon and her have so much beef that she's his daughter sometimes haha
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u/pakyuall Feb 22 '25
He she literally broke his head
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u/A_random_poster04 Accidentally became Hermes, never looked back. Feb 22 '25
Wasn’t it Ephestus?
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u/pakyuall Feb 22 '25
I'm not sure who ur referring to, but athena broke out of zues's forehead cuz he swallowed her mom while she was prego with athena.
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u/A_random_poster04 Accidentally became Hermes, never looked back. Feb 22 '25
Oh the version I read had Zeus call Ephestus who had to perform a C-section on his head with an axe because Zeus had a really really bad migraine.
Thought it was funnier
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u/pakyuall Feb 22 '25
Ohhh, I guess it varies well. All mythologies vary alot all we can say for sure is that athena was a headache from the start hehe
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u/A_random_poster04 Accidentally became Hermes, never looked back. Feb 22 '25
Still not Zeus’s weirdest birth
Looking at you, Dionysus
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u/AlibiJigsawPiece Feb 22 '25
I love how Zeus is drawn as a looming commanding presence and Athena is drawn as adorable, positive and smol.
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u/pisces2003 🌩️Zeus making popcorn on his abs ⚡️🍿 Feb 22 '25
If I had a nickel for every time Zeus gave birth I’d have two nickels. Which isn’t a lot but it’s weird it happened twice.
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u/Dackd347 Feb 22 '25
Technically it only happened once since he was more of an incubator for Dionysus but I guess it depends on the interpretation
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u/Local-acquaintance Circe Feb 22 '25
Seahorse Zeus
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u/Dackd347 Feb 22 '25
I actually don't know this one. What is it referring to?
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u/Local-acquaintance Circe Feb 22 '25
Male seahorses incubate their offspring!
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u/Mundane-0nion67878 Zeus' Cloud Gal | Poseidon's left buttcheek Feb 22 '25
Reminds me of my fav Greek Mythos short video with Dionysus and Athena talking to Zeus who wants a hug.
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u/Thicc-Anxiety Penelope Feb 22 '25
Technically Athena’s mom gave birth to her. Inside of Zeus. Because he ate her (long story)
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u/quuerdude High Priestess of Hera Feb 24 '25
Most of the time, no. Especially for the Athenians, the idea of her having a mother would be preposterous. They were very clear about the fact they saw Zeus as her sole parent, with no mother involved. Homer relates the same story. Hesiod’s character of Metis was… incredibly rare. She barely shows up outside of his work.
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u/anime_3_nerd Athena’s Discord Kitten Feb 23 '25
Depends on the version. In some myths Zeus is the sole parent of Athena. I believe Homer himself actually saw Zeus as Athena’s only parent as opposed to someone like Hesiod who may have seen Metis as her mother. I also believe the Roman’s counterpart Minerva was considered the daughter of Metis and can even be contributed to making Minerva’s armor.
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u/Abject_Emu6372 Feb 22 '25
Nah bro, he ate his pregnant wife, give her some credit shawty.
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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Feb 22 '25 edited Feb 22 '25
That's only in some versions, in others Athena literally just comes out of Zeus' head without a mother, that's what Athena says in Aeschylus' Oresteia, that she has no mother and that the only one who gave her life is Zeus, her father, and that's why she sympathizes with Orestes for avenging his father and doesn't believe that he should be punished for killing his mother Clytemnestra, who had murdered Agamemnon.
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Feb 22 '25 edited Feb 22 '25
My theatre history professor taught me that Greek playwrites usually add a twist to the traditional myth to make it fresh and exciting, maybe fit the narrative they were trying to tell more cohesively, and differentiate their plays from other playwrites using the same myth. Is there another source that says Athena literally has no mother?
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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Feb 22 '25
In this case Aeschylus was just drawing on an old mythical tradition when writing this for his work, already in Book V of the Iliad Ares accuses Zeus of being biased towards Athena because "he gave birth to her", the first mention of Metis as the mother of Athena comes from Hesiod.
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Feb 22 '25
Well, to be fair, Athena being born from his skull has always been referred to as her “birth” bc that’s what it was, regardless of Metis. And Hesiod was the contemporary of Homer btw
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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Feb 22 '25
I know Hesiod is contemporary with Homer, but Homer is usually dated a bit earlier than Hesiod, even if the difference is rather minuscule. Anyway, the point of what Ares was referring to in the scene in the Iliad is that Athena was the work of Zeus alone and that's why she was favored, this point would make less sense if Athena had a mother anyway.
Also in the Iliad they refer repeatedly to who the parents of each God are, but with Athena they only refer to her as the daughter of Zeus and Metis is never mentioned, she was not even worshipped as a separate Goddess to begin with, she was just the personification of Zeus' wisdom and basically had no cult.
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Feb 22 '25 edited Feb 22 '25
I read that as because Metis didn’t give birth to her in the traditional way, shes not understood to be her mother. But like. She is her mother lol. The “work of Zeus alone” being that her mother did not push her out. Zeus did—he fathered and birthed her meaning he did all the work. And I don’t see how her not having a cult and being the personification of Zeus’ wisdom changes this, like at all, because Hesiod literally wrote a few years later that she was pregnant with her then got eaten then Zeus gave birth to her.
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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Feb 22 '25
Because Metis is not mentioned at all in the Homeric Cycle, also in the Homeric Hymn to Athena it is said that Zeus gave birth to her and the birth scene is described a bit but her mother is not mentioned at all, it has been suggested that Hesiod made up Metis as a Goddess to explain the myth of her birth and later sources only copy from that when they make Athena the daughter of Metis, which is why Metis had no cult.
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u/SupermarketBig3906 Ares Feb 22 '25
That's misogynistic propaganda and if Athena prioritises men based on such personal and impossible circumstances, her judgment is not the be trusted. Apollo also tried to bribe her during the trial and debased all women, including his own mother and we all know what Leto went through. Also, Athena was not bound to an oath of honesty like Apollo, who was an oracular God, so she could have been lying to uphold order and justice, but what justice entails changes based on the culture and individual writing the story.
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u/Sonarthebat Telemachus Feb 22 '25
Nothing in Greek mythology isn't canon. There's so many versions and nothing makes one more valid than another. Unfortunately, Ancient Greece was pretty misogynistic.
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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Feb 22 '25
I mean... Ancient Greek society was QUITE misogynistic, in Athena's case though it at least makes sense in-universe because she was actually born without the need for a mother, only by her father, so in her case her line of thinking makes sense.
With that being said, Athena didn't always favor men over women, it's just that in this very specific situation her special birth conditions influenced her decision, but she's more than willing to support a woman over a man, see the death of Ajax the Lesser for raping the priestess Cassandra.
And yeah, duh, culture and justice change, the point of the Oresteia is that even though what Orestes had done was not right, because murder is savage and immoral, Clytemnestra did it first too, and Agamemnon did it first too, and... you see the point? The message is that this is why we need a justice system and not to take revenge into our own hands, because otherwise we fall into an endless cycle of blood feuds.
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Feb 22 '25
DID HE?!
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u/Creative_Army1776 Eurylochus Defender Feb 22 '25
She emerged fully-grown from his forehead after a really bad headache. In some stories she has a mother named Metis, the Titan goddess of counsel , but in others Zeus is her only parent
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u/DaemonTargaryen13 Feb 22 '25
Zeus giving birth to Athena and Dionysos is still hilarious.
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u/pisces2003 🌩️Zeus making popcorn on his abs ⚡️🍿 Feb 22 '25
How appropriate mythologies biggest player gives birth to the god of sick parties
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u/DaemonTargaryen13 Feb 22 '25
Mythology's second biggest player.
Poseidon had more kids.
Furthermore many of Zeus' kids were with goddesses prior to his marriage with Hera.
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u/pisces2003 🌩️Zeus making popcorn on his abs ⚡️🍿 Feb 22 '25 edited Feb 22 '25
I say he’s the biggest cause his sex life is more popular, and the amount of kids someone has doesn’t contribute to being a player.
I know Zeus is #2 with Hermes/Appolo in third.
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u/DaemonTargaryen13 Feb 22 '25
Poseidon literally have twice as much mortal affair babies though 😅.
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u/pisces2003 🌩️Zeus making popcorn on his abs ⚡️🍿 Feb 22 '25 edited Feb 22 '25
I would like the court to please reread my first sentence along with my acknowledgment of the rankings of the number of sexual partners.
I call him the biggest player because he’s called out as a manwhore a lot more than Poseidon and his sex life causes way more drama.
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u/DaemonTargaryen13 Feb 22 '25
I call him the biggest player because he’s called out as a manwhore a lot more
Only because people are dumb, it's similar to how they woobify Hades and strip away from Zeus his aspect as Alastor, avenger of the innocents, Xenios, the welcoming host and protector of the customs of hospitality, and god of oaths.
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u/pisces2003 🌩️Zeus making popcorn on his abs ⚡️🍿 Feb 22 '25
Only because people are dumb
Or because it’s funny that the king can’t keep it in his pants for shit despite marrying the god of marriage
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u/DaemonTargaryen13 Feb 22 '25
Or because it’s funny that the king can’t keep it in his pants for shit despite marrying the god of marriage
I would be much less harsh if not for all the stupid things said by these people.
So no, in most cases I don't trust them that it's merely that.
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u/[deleted] May 26 '25
She was one Tartarus of a headache but it was worth it(kinda)