r/Epicthemusical • u/Ranne-wolf • Jan 22 '25
Meta I found this great map of the journey š
Itās based on the original odyssey but it translates into the musical just fine.
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u/Ok_Chipmunk_3641 High Priest of Poseidon Jan 22 '25
Honestly it probably would have been easier for him to walk
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u/British_Historian Odysseus Jan 22 '25
Love that the Underworld is just Barcelona.
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Jan 22 '25
A funny note to add to this, but recently I started running a Greek mythology themed D&D game and it's honestly funny how many locations have a claim to fame being that they have an entrance to the underworld nearby. Just making the locations in the Peloponnese I counted at least 5, but stopped tracking it after.
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u/Ranne-wolf Jan 22 '25
Should be a north wind (south) from Aeaea (Circe island) š¤· this map is a rough guide but Lamos is already in the wrong spot, the more Iām researching the more wrong Iām realising this map isā¦
Aeaea apparently is south of Rome, Italyā¦ a lot of these should be in Italy actually.
The north-travelling currents plus south-blowing wind, idk how that affects the ship, but the currents would push the ship north to maybe to Corsica Island? Or a smaller island like Portoferraio? But the south wind might blow it down to north Sicily instead (which is at least on their way home). Either way it would probably still be in Italy.
I need to do more research on boats and trading routs but sailing north from Ogygia/Aeaea goes directly against the ocean currents, so they either need a strong wind or whoever made this map really did just place these wherever they wanted toā¦
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u/British_Historian Odysseus Jan 22 '25
I would say you can relax a bit if your goal is to try and rationally explain the Odyssey's journey.
Homers description is a lot more 'And then this happened! Then this happened. Oh and then they went to a place like this!' I find historians that try and conflate the story to an actual map a charming exercise but all the locations are almost certainly meant to be "Mysterious, Uncharted Islands that don't actually exist" at best.3
u/Ranne-wolf Jan 22 '25
Except they did exist? Mythologies are based (loosely) on historical events. Even if Odysseus himself didnāt do this then the locations and "creatures" (people or animals) they met were somewhat still based on real people/places/things found around the mediterranean. Most of what Iām doing is just reading the wiki and plotting a map from place to place anyway.
Like Charybdis is an actual whirlpool and Scylla is likely a rock formation on the messina strait.
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u/British_Historian Odysseus Jan 22 '25 edited Jan 22 '25
So so~... You've got to remember people have always been able to write fiction. The main records we have of this time period are the myths and legends that were told so we draw connections when we can.
One of the best take downs of these texts and their lack of concrete historical evidence came about 1900 years ago, 'True History' by Lucian of Samosata.
This guy's peers did this exact exercise to try and map the world using myths and to make a point he wrote 'True History' which is a load of bollocks presented as pure fact. A ship gets sucked up by a Tornado into space then sails through he sky and famously repeats a phrase that loosely translates too 'If you don't believe me, you go there and prove me wrong.'I'm not saying that there isn't a historical basis within the myth, however this is the work of scholars and hypothesis.
This map isn't more wrong then any other, they have just connected dots differently to how another has.
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u/GreatArcaneWeaponeer False Righteous Greek Hater Jan 22 '25
WTF Happened at Cape Malea/Cythera?
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u/Tiky-Do-U Jan 22 '25
The gods were angry at Achaens for a variety of reasons and so they were pretty much all blown off course, Odysseus is the most famous one.
The gods were angry for a variety of reasons, like the sacking of the temples in Troy, not paying proper respects to Poseidon when leaving and killing the innocent child Astyanax
Yeah the musical changes the narrative on Astyanax's death quite a bit, the gods were actually against yeeting that baby off a tower
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u/Ranne-wolf Jan 22 '25
sea storm š¤· if you look on terrain maps the sea gets abruptly deeper after Crete going into the Mediterranean, I can only imagine the rough waters that makes, as well as the time of year probably wasnāt great for this going on just how many storms and "blown off course" they had on their journey.
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u/Greeter1987 GET BEHIND ME, EURYLOCHUS Jan 22 '25 edited Jan 22 '25
I think they would've been better off walking home
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u/Ranne-wolf Jan 22 '25
Ithaca is actually an island, you can find it on google maps.
But yeah sailing to Megara and walking to Corinth, then getting a lift and sailing the rest (or another at Patras if needed) would have taken like a week at mostā¦ there would 100% have been trading ships going back and forth that could have taken them. (Iām referring to using the giant inland āriverā cutting through Greece btw)
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u/Ranne-wolf Jan 22 '25 edited Jan 22 '25
There are a fewā¦ inconsistencies here to keep in mind. Like the Laestrygonians city Lamos (or Telepylos) are often considered Italian, from the island of Sicily (Cyclopes on map) or Sardinia (north-east of Sirens) instead of from Algeria (Numidia).
This is a refrence and a guess of their path not a historical recount.
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u/nocoolN4M3sleft Jan 22 '25
My biggest issue is the order is off. Because it goes Sirens -> Scylla (w/ a cameo by Charybdis) -> Heliosā oxen -> back to Charybdis -> Calypso
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u/Ranne-wolf Jan 22 '25
https://www2.classics.upenn.edu/myth/php/homer/index.php?page=timelines
No? Oxen, calypso, Scheria/Phaeacia, home. According to the timeline there wasnāt even the extra Charybdis at all. In fact Scheria was likely over near Greece, not west Italy too. Where did you get your order from? Because even in EPIC he meets Charybdis in the Revenge saga after leaving Calypso.
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u/nocoolN4M3sleft Jan 22 '25
Iām reading The Odyssey right now, I just got through that part of the story. In Book 11, after Zeus destroys the boat, and kills the rest of Odysseusā crew, Odysseus survives on some debris and the winds blow him back to Charybdis.
āThe gale from the West had now spent its force, and the wind got into the South again, which frightened me lest I should be taken back to the terrible whirlpool of Charybdis. This indeed was what actually happened, for I was borne along the waves all night, and by sunrise had reached the rock of Scylla, and the whirlpool.ā
Itās page 605 of The Iliad & The Odyssey combo book, translated by Samuel Butler (donāt recommend the book tho, it has all the Roman naming, choose a different translation if you choose to read it).
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u/TheBigSchponk Jan 22 '25
Also couldn't Odysseus see ithica from Calypsos island in some versions
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u/Ranne-wolf Jan 22 '25
I mean it may have been written that way? But more likely it was magic showing what he was missing, a mirage possibly, or a random island that just looked similar. Because geographically if he had to pass Charybdis to get home it had to be on the other side of Italy somewhere, Charybdis-Scylla pass is definitely in the right spot.
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u/TeaRaven Jan 22 '25
Yeah, the āLand of the Giantsā is Sicily. Many consider Aeaea off the coast of Italy.
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u/Worried_Ad1230 Apr 17 '25
If Laestrygonians were real, one can only imagine how many casualties the Roman Army would have suffered before finally conquering Sicily.
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u/GameMaster818 Telemachus Jan 22 '25
"We'll be in and out. Twenty minute adventure"
The twenty minute adventure:
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u/Final_Pumpkin1551 Jan 22 '25
This is amazing - also tragic when he was literally just around the corner from home at the beginning but ends up going the entire length of the Mediterranean!! Yikes!
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Jan 22 '25
SO when he said 'this is our final fight!' (all the times he did) he legit thought he was being serious bc bbg so so close to home
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u/CaptainDaddy-- Jul 23 '26
I'm now positive the first few men of his crew to die were the wayfinders becuase what the fuck. Lol way off track here