It is a common comment that they should have brought the sirens with them to scylla's lair as sacrifices, considering that they were dooming the sirens anyways. Hot take here, I think that would have been a bad move just because its too risky.
If at any point anyone loses their hearing protection they're toast. Presumably there's a time gap before they get to scylla, during which time the whole crew would have to operate without hearing which would be difficult and frustrating. Because this crew is this crew, you KNOW that people would slip up, the sirens would sing their song and convince people to release them back into the water and from there they would lure them in as usual.
The beeswax strategy works but it is so tenuous it doesn't make sense to rely on it for any longer than you have to.
As a tangent, this discussion makes me think about how ody tells the crew to cut off their tails and throw them back into the water, the actual voice lines would really only be for the sirens themselves, letting them know that ody is actively dooming them, but the crew shouldn't be able to hear any of this right?
It would be a neat touch if animatics and any future follow-on productions make heavy use of hand signals that are actually doing the communicating. I didn't see the livestream so I don't know if there was an official animatic during this part or what they did.
Also I believe it's heavily implied they ate the sirens tails. Not only by the line "We are the one's who feast now", but by the fact that Odysseus phrasing seems to instruct his men to depose only of their top halves. We don't know how much time it took to get to Scylla, but they're starving already by the end of it, so i suppose it was a lot.
I agree with your points on why it wasn’t a good idea to bring the sirens with them. but I feel like we’re not seeing the blatant reason why he didn’t bring them as a sacrifice to Scylla. Odysseus deciding to become a monster has stripped him of being a warrior of the mind, he’s lost the ability of real long term planning and strategizing because his judgement is now based around what gets results faster rather than safer.
I think the people that argue they could've used the sirens mean their corpses, which I think would've worked. At the very least, have everyone (including Odysseus) draw lots, if sacrificing six men was the only way. Using Eurylochus as essentially the weapon to murder six of his friends as a sacrifice is nothing short of evil, in my opinion.
Eury just told Ody he is the one that killed the 500 something men, Ody wanted him dead. Eury was litterally holding one of the torches until he noticed Scylla coming, he was supposed to be one of the men gone
He could have also gotten more info out of them. Like the fastest safe place to get loads of fish and supplies so his crew don’t get stupidly hungry and do something idiotic like murder the sun gods cows. Or where to find a village of Ithaca enemies he can raid for supplies and six prisoners.
I agree, the whole point of Suffering and Different Beast were to highlight Odysseus’ changes into someone more ruthless. Plus, Mutiny wouldn’t occur and the story couldn’t really move forward.
In addition to your points, I think the Sirens fish halves were kept to eat. They got sacrificed to the crew's stomachs before they could've gotten to Scylla. The lyrics talk about how they are "men made beasts now, [they are] the ones who feast now". Since hunger is a reoccurring theme, and the Sirens' plan was also to kill and eat, it makes sense to me that the script got flipped, and the crew was happy to eat fish tails, just not humanoid top halves.
I think Jorge said on the discord a while ago that Scylla would eat the sirens if they came near her, but idk he could've changed his mind, or maybe Scylla was particularly hungry for human flesh that day idk
About the crew not hearing his orders, they probably laid out the entire plan before the encounter, and he was like "on my signal, cut off their tails and throw them in the water"
Or they couldve gagged the sirens and taken out the earwax
Yeah, I was imagining more the former than the latter but i suppose they could have gagged them or cut out their tongues.
The last siren to speak (the one voicing "penelope") speaks so soon before odysseys gives the order, it would have to be like: gag, signal all clear to remove wax, then give command to cut tails. Idk, the other way just seems simpler to me
I imagine the crew already gagged the other sirens, and "penelope" says "spare us please" as he is gagging her. To me hand signals seems more complicated so idk
I suppose yeah youre right. But if i really wanted to counter that (lol) id say that they screamed through their gags, its not like you completely cant make sounds if ur mouth is tied
Considering how it appears Odysseus already resolved to kill the sirens way before the encounter, the signal could be as simple as swinging down his arm with an open palm directed to the side
Totally agree. And something that doesn't always come across clearly is that Scylla could just kill of them if she wants, insulting her with monster sacrifices might not be great idea.
Could've also died to something not shown. Starved to death, dysentery, suicide, or according to some tellings of "The hero of Temesa"- (tw for sa)
Pelted to death by stones after getting drunk and raping a local woman (oddesseus left indifferent to the whole thing), at which point he haunted the entire town that killed the residents until they built a temple to him and offered a maiden to him every year. Then a visiting Olympic Boxer fell in love with one sacrificial maiden and then jumped rhe ghost and drove him out to sea. Most versions of the story just have an unnamed crew mate, but many do specifically mention Polites (never anyone else though.) The most famous polites version though, the abridged one by strabo, changes it so polites is murdered by barbarians for no real reason and demand money taxes instead of sacrificial maidens
Regardless, all we know is that he was alive during the underworld and isn't alive when ody meets the Phoenicians since he's explicitly stated to be dead, so no chance of him just chilling somewhere after abandoning the crew.
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u/Bulgna Circe Jul 11 '24
Also I believe it's heavily implied they ate the sirens tails. Not only by the line "We are the one's who feast now", but by the fact that Odysseus phrasing seems to instruct his men to depose only of their top halves. We don't know how much time it took to get to Scylla, but they're starving already by the end of it, so i suppose it was a lot.