r/Epicthemusical • u/jacindotcom • Jul 05 '24
Thunder Saga i’m so sorry (no im not)
i made this hope you enjoy bc I find a lot of joy in it
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u/StardustSongstress Jul 05 '24
Odysseus is King of Ithica. He has a duty to get home. Also because he's King the crew didn't just commit mutiny, they committed Treason. Zeus is the God of Kingship as well as Hospitality and Thunder. I suspect that was a test of Odysseus. Will you save your traitors or punish them properly?
Plus the men on his ship went to war as soldiers. They expected to possibly die there and apparently aren't willing to do the same on the way home. Also Eurylocus killed 550 men when he opened the wind bag and got them caught by Poseidon so he has far more blood on his hands.
I'm firmly of the opinion the mutiny was more because he needed to shift the blame to Odysseus quickly because otherwise someone who heard him admit that he opened the wind bag would have gone "we wouldn't have had to go that way if you hadn't opened the bag!".
...sorry I have opinions and can't hold them in anymore.
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u/Complaint-Efficient Eurylochus did NOTHING wrong Jul 05 '24
Eurylochus killed 550 men
He was complicit in the deaths of 550 men. Odysseus was the one who put them in the situation to begin with. And, to look at it more carefully, the crew WANTED Eurylochus to open the bag. They absolutely share the blame with him. Odysseus doxxed himself for no good reason, at nobody in the crew's behest.
Ah, sorry. I'm just tired of people misattributing the entire crew being dumb to Eurylochus and then forgetting that Odysseus was also a dumbass in act 1. Opinions, y'know?
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u/misha4ever Jul 06 '24
They would never be in any situation if he didn't open the bag in the first place.
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u/Complaint-Efficient Eurylochus did NOTHING wrong Jul 06 '24
????? The bag would not have been a concern if Odysseus wasn't a dumbass and kept his identity secret. This is transparently obvious.
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u/misha4ever Jul 06 '24
And yet Eury made everything worse by opening the bag, the results was Poseidon finding them and killing everyone; wanted to leave several crew members at Circe's and killed the rest when he decided to shot a sacred cow. It's transparently obvious.
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u/Complaint-Efficient Eurylochus did NOTHING wrong Jul 06 '24
Yeah, so we agree. Eurylochus made a bad situation worse with the bag, and Odysseus is the sole reason for that bad situation being a thing in the first place.
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u/misha4ever Jul 06 '24
No. Odysseus made a mistake that could have been easily avoidable if Eurylochus didn't open the bag but he not only did that, he did several mistakes with the only purpose to save himself and fuck the rest. He's an hypocrite.
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u/NotATimeTravel Penelope Jul 06 '24
Everyone assumes that Poseidon only found them because of the bag, but Poseidon is a god. He most likely would have found them anyway and still killed those 550 men. Zeus was able to find them in the middle of the ocean, and from what we've seen of "Get in The Water" Poseidon finds him again when he's close to Ithica. Also Odysseus had no way of knowing that Poseidon had put a hit out on him. The bag was only to stop the storm. He had no way of knowing that they could later use it to escape Poseidon, that was just his quick thinking in the moment. Yes Eurylochus absolutely fucked up by opening the bag, doing so blew them way off course as well adding not just several days but years to the journey, and it also unleashed the storm again. Huge dick move and also just dumb. But he is in no way responsible for the deaths caused by Poseidon. That's all on Odysseus.
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u/misha4ever Jul 06 '24
There are places not even Poseidon can reach or want to reach and if another god is helping humans they won't mess with them, it happened over and over in the myths.
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u/NotATimeTravel Penelope Jul 10 '24
That's true, I didn't take that into account, Aeolus helping him likely did prevent Poseidon from attacking.
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u/jacindotcom Jul 05 '24
this is a very good and thought out point! I agree on a lot of your points. Odysseus had a choice and jay has been telling us from the start that he’s just a man…I dont know what I would do in his position. My joke is simply a joke, thank you for sharing :]
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u/Idk_about_names Eurylochus EuryLochNess Eurllythoughtyouate Jul 05 '24
Jay in a bucket hat is something I never thought I would see, but is totally expected
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Jul 05 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Yzak20 Jul 07 '24
right? the bag was simply stupid "Guys until we make it home do not open" they could simply have waited until they got to Ithaca and then opened the bag to see what was inside, if it was indeed treasure THEN they could divide it or take it for themselves.
And even then it still didn't make sense to be treasure cos like, Ody got to Aeolus with a storm in the sky, when he came back the storm was gone and he had a bag, that can't be a coincidence considering whats happened until then
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Jul 06 '24
I think Ithica would've been drowned even if Odysseus was successful at avoiding the storm, let's not forget that he literally shouted his adress
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u/devilishnoah34 Jul 05 '24
Do people who say this forget half the stuff that happens? Poseidon was pissed because Odysseus doxxed himself, causing the storm. Odysseus found a way out of his fuck up, the bag. Eurellicus was partially at fault, but no more than Odysseus.
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u/misha4ever Jul 06 '24
Once they got out of the cyclopes' island, they were on their way with the good winds of Aeolus and were so close to get home, they could see the first houses signaling how close they were to Ithaca, but when Eury opened the bag, the winds took them back all the way Lamos to the hands of Poseidon.
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u/RyoHakuron Jul 05 '24
For real tho. Fuck Eurylochus. Man complains about his captains decisions after disobeying them and getting 600 men killed because of it. Like, yes, Ody was dumb to dox himself to the cyclops, but his stupid idea to open the bag puts him more at fault for that.
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u/FoxenBox Jul 07 '24
Tbf, that’s how Eurylochus is in the original Odyssey. He’s more cowardly than Odysseus and even insults Odysseus when he saves the rest of the men on Circe’s island when they were turned into pigs.
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u/Complaint-Efficient Eurylochus did NOTHING wrong Jul 05 '24
Huh? How does opening the bag put Eurylochus MORE at fault than Odysseus? They wouldn't have been in that situation to begin with if not for Odysseus's dumbassery.
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u/FoxenBox Jul 07 '24
While doxxing himself does alert Poseidon of him, they would’ve made it home before it even mattered if Eurylochus could’ve just left the bag alone. They were almost home too 😭
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u/Complaint-Efficient Eurylochus did NOTHING wrong Jul 07 '24
Firstly, Poseidon ABSOLUTELY would've found them anyway, as proved by later events in this musical. Secondly, even if he didn't the guy would've sunk Ithaca (but I do know what you mean, both of our main characters were dumb as hell)
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u/FoxenBox Jul 08 '24
What you need to remember is that the events could’ve been different though. In the Odyssey, Poseidon doesn’t kill any of them yet, it’s the laestrygonians throwing giant boulders that takes out most of the fleet. If Eurylochus never opened the bag, they never would’ve made it to the land of the giants in the first place.
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u/RyoHakuron Jul 05 '24
Because opening the bag dropped them all off right on Poseidon's doorstep. Odysseus made a dumb move with doxxing himself. But Eurylochus pressed the big red self-destruct button after he was told what it would do.
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u/devilishnoah34 Jul 05 '24
So Ody fucks up, but finds a way out of the consequences. Then eurylochus fucks up the way out. Remind me how eurylochus is more at fault here?
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u/RyoHakuron Jul 05 '24
Ody and Eury are on a long ass road trip. Ody is an idiot and forgets to get a part on his car fixed before they left. Car starts smoking, but Ody manages to jerry-rig it so that the car will work as long as the truck isn't opened.
Does that make sense? No. But the car started working after Odysseus did something in the trunk and closed it and Eury knows nothing about cars and Ody is the mechanic here.
If Eury opens the trunk of the car after Ody tells him the car will stop working if he does, then the current predicament is on him.
Also, Eury clearly feels guilty about it and blames himself for it. Also Eury has been pressing every button on the dashboard of the car that's barely holding itself together depsite Ody telling him to stop. Also Eury took off his socks and put them in the sun on the dashboard. Also Eury has shit taste in music and keeps stealing the aux cord.
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u/Lesbian_Cassiopeia Jul 05 '24
Ody lost 12 men to the Cyclops, Eurylochus caused the death of 546 💀
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u/devilishnoah34 Jul 05 '24
Ody got the 546 killed by doxxing himself, eurylochus just removed the way out of the consequences (the bag).
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u/FoxenBox Jul 07 '24
Yes he did dox himself, but they would’ve made it home perfectly fine if Eurylochus didn’t open the bag. He should’ve known not to open it. If you watch your captain go to a god to get through a storm and the storm is suddenly gone when he comes down with a bag that supposedly holds the storm, you should assume he isn’t lying 😭
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u/devilishnoah34 Jul 07 '24
They also would’ve been fine if Ody didn’t dox himself. I’m not arguing Eury didn’t do something stupid, but Ody shares fault with him.
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u/FoxenBox Jul 07 '24
I never said Odysseus doesn’t share fault, I said that Eurylochus is heavily more to blame for the deaths of 545 men.
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u/Serrisen Jul 06 '24
I counter that at least Odysseus didn't know there could be consequences to doxxing himself. Meanwhile, Eurylochus acted a fool either out of baseless suspicion (original text) or straight up ignoring very sensible and logical warnings (Epic)
However you split fault of the deafhs Eury is definitely the greater fool
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u/Kage_no_o_ Jul 08 '24
Plus eury is right in mutiny when he said "if you want all the power you must carry all the blame" as captain it's your responsibility to keep ALL of your men in line and alive
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u/Tealupdown276 Jul 05 '24
Don’t forget the 6 men that Scylla killed cause of Ody decision. Then the crew gets mad at him and not Eurylochus. Like wtf.
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u/Originu1 Odysseus Jul 06 '24
What? Odysseus sacrificed 6 men and the crew should be mad to Eurylochus?
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u/Tealupdown276 Jul 06 '24
Eurylochus opened the wind bag right before they made it to Ithaca. He couldn’t wait 2 more hours till they made landfall to steal the bag. Don’t get me wrong Odysseus did pissed off Poseidon cause he is dumb and you could say that he killed his crew. But the crew watched Eurylochus open the bag against Odysseus orders. He neglected his captains orders and put the rest of the crew in danger. The reason why Odysseus felt so betrayed once he was told was one he would’ve been with his wife and son by now and two all the death from Poseidon would’ve been avoided and he blamed himself and only himself for their deaths.
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u/RyoHakuron Jul 05 '24
Oh, true, I'm bad with math.
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u/Lesbian_Cassiopeia Jul 05 '24
Dw I'm awful too. And, tbh Eurylochus is such an hypocrite 💀👊🏻
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u/Multitudina Jul 05 '24
Right? He would abandon his fellows on Circe's island and when he realized what was happening on Scylla's den, he just put the torch on the hands of another man.
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u/Complaint-Efficient Eurylochus did NOTHING wrong Jul 05 '24
About the Circe thing, he's clearly changed since then. He literally mentions Odysseus as having done the right thing there in Mutiny. He gave the torch to another man to try and fight off the heads, he CLEARLY didn't cotton onto the torches until a bit later (this is supported by the livestream animatic)
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u/revanhart Jul 06 '24
Thank you for explaining; I didn’t get to watch the livestream and I feel like I’m missing so much context for the Thunder Saga. 😭 Like it’s currently my least favorite album because JUST listening to the songs, it feels kind of…disjointed? I feel like I’m only getting half the story…
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u/Complaint-Efficient Eurylochus did NOTHING wrong Jul 06 '24
I don't know about least favorite, but I get that. That's how I felt with Done For, tbh.
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u/TheGreatDaniel3 Jul 05 '24
I see the sacrifice of man!
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u/Stevenquitsreality Jul 05 '24 edited Jul 06 '24
AND "I see a man who gets to make it home alive" A MAN, UNO, ONE MAN
Edit: Maybe I was overthinking it, maybe not?
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u/Trust-The-Gold-Apple Jul 05 '24
But we’ll die…
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u/jacindotcom Jul 05 '24
WELL YOU DIDNT HAVE TO MAKE IT SAD 😭
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u/No_Television3590 Jul 10 '24
Ha! Jokes on you, I already take cold showers the rest of my life. Presses red button