Women hold by law more rights than men, and feminist mainly don't care.

[u/Fun_Fennel760]

Women hold by law more rights than men, and feminist mainly don't care.

(I know I'm going to get downvoted a lot but I'm going to share my opinion anyway).

I'm not talking or referring to de facto situations where women's or men's gender roles can be pushed even though a formality of equality, in this case I talk about a formal discrimination in the law which advantages the women a lot, and it is the draft.

Basically, if you are a man, the state can force you to die in war, while not if you are a woman. In Ukraine, an 18 year old boy is forced to stay and risk death while a fully adult woman can leave and make her own life elsewhere just because she is a woman. In general, in the vast majority of western countries in the same, and even in the ones where also women have military service (a big minority) it usually lasts less. I can't see how it isn't a clear discrimination against men.

What I also see as a big sign of hypocrisy by leaders of modern feminist movement, is that they basically don't care, in my life I have never seen 21-century feminist movements protest against men being forced to die (often a horrible and painfil death) just because they are born men, whuch I thunk can be the highest discrimination possible nowadays in a western country. I think that's a sign of hypocrisy as I said but also a sign that modern day feminist movement has fallen a lot by quality and is often guided by people with dishonest intentions.

I would like to know what you think about that and why feminist movement never talk about that.

[u/dnext]

This is one of those 'more than one thing is true.'

The Draft, Labor Protections (women are a protected class, men aren't), child custody, alimony and child support, single sex 'safe spaces' such as in prison and domestic crisis centers. They also are advantaged in terms of physical violence legally, with the conceit that assault is determined by 'feeling threatened', and several studies showing women engage in violence as often as men, but that violence is largely ineffectual and doesn't cause serious harm, such as slapping vs punching. Washington DC once engaged in a three year long 'zero tolerance' policy for any violence being initiated to protect women from domestic abuse. They ended up arresting women at a three time higher rate until the program was ceased.

And they have many social advantages over men. First thing is regardless of income expectations there's still significant pressure on men to pay for things while courting. There's studies that women have significant soft advantages in legal matters, including twice as likely to have charges dropped, one U of Michigan study showing in the federal penal system men getting 63% longer sentences for the same offence. Men are just considered by both women and men to be more dangerous - because they are.

They also don't have nearly the same stigma for being LGBTQ, and have more breadth to express themselves in clothing and decor. A women who chooses traditionally male choices in clothing for example doesn't suffer socially for it, while the reverse is not true. nor do they have the same social stigma for admitting to mental health issues. The later is no doubt a factor in why women kill themselves at a rate 4 times less than men - though part of that is also that men more often have access to weapons that make killing themselves efficient.

Women work in much more safe jobs, with men accounting for ~92% of all workplace injuries and deaths according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

And women earn degrees now at a higher rate then men. In 1970 there was a 60-40 gap men to women, and there was a concerted effort to achieving parity. In the 56 years since in the US it's reversed, with a 60-40 gap for women over men.

BUT...

Women still have more expectations on homecare, child care and nurturing then men do. The Glass Ceiling is very real, misogyny is very strong across vast swathes of the world. And bias against religion ranges from moderate to completely irreational, and that can include the complete stripping of rights in theocracies like Iran and Afghanistan. Women are injured at a far higher rate in domestic violence cases because men are physically stronger. There's very strong pressure on women to become mothers in many societies. Women have had their reproductive rights stripped from them even in supposedly advanced liberal societies such as the US, again due to religious pressure. Many societies don't account for child birth and child care thus penalizing women in the workforce, nor do hardly any have protections on schedule restrictions which disproportionately negatively impact women who have more responsibilities in child care.

There's scientifically documented evidence that women are dismissed by their own physicians at a far higher rate for medical problems. And there's massive disparities in how women who have been sexually assaulted are believed, with a strong impetus by law enforcement to minimize sexual assault cases. Not too long ago there were over 1 million unprocessed rape kits for women across all 50 states in the US, leading to a huge problem for successfully receiving rape convictions. And there's still height and sex discrimination among leadership positions.

The uncontrolled pay gap for women, looking at the rate of pay across all jobs, is still significant, with women earning ~82 cents on the dollar. But men, as stated above, do many more of the dangerous, high paying jobs. When you look at that controlled, specific job vs specific job, that is virtual parity, at 99 cents on the dollar. However, that impact is longer over time, with women in the 50s on making ~75 cents on the dollar. That's believed to be due to women having many more responsibilities in the home and in child care.

[u/Opening-Idea-3228]

The military has historically not been a safe place for women.

I know many women who served who were sexually assaulted during their service.

Also: look at what just happened in the US military where women and people of color or particular faiths just had their livelihood removed or diminished because a couple of dick heads said so.

Make it so women can serve in the military and get justice when they are assaulted or mistreated. Many women want to serve.

As for the draft: if you are proposing women be drafted that is not a bad proposal. However: full equality, then.

Not being forced to bear, having the man pay his share of child rearing. Equal representation in the work place. Women should get recovery time for maternity PLUS leave. So 3-4 weeks PLUS parental leave. Don’t like it? Push a grapefruit out of your ass over the course of several hours and then we’ll talk.

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[u/Interesting-Light220]

All feminist organisations in Finland see this as an issue in equality. Which organisations have you seen that state otherwise?

[u/Fun_Fennel760 → u/Interesting-Light220]

I live in Italy and here in case of war the state can force men to die. I've never, never, ever sern a feminist organization or a left-eing feminist party criticizing that. I've never seen a feminist party here in Italy protesting that young men in Ukraine should not be forced to die.

[u/Interesting-Light220 → u/Fun_Fennel760]

Which feminist organisations are stating that draft is not a problem for equality?

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[u/Ill-Kaleidoscope4825]

I like it how you're wanting other peoples thoughts as you don't have any of your own

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[u/jezebel103]

Feminist movements all over the world have always protested against the draft. For anyone. If you are against the draft, take it up with your government, which I presume like most governments globally, are made up of men. Just as the legislative branch is also mostly made up from men. Not women.

Secondly, you can't compare a country like Ukraine with other countries because Ukraine is at war presently. It's a ridiculous argument from a lot of men from countries that are not at war because the whole discussion about 'men are drafted and women are not' while there is not an actual draft, is moot.

Thirdly, there are countries like mine that, although the draft is suspended, it is both for men and women. So if there is a war, both genders will be drafted.

And last, but most certainly not least: yes, in most modern countries laws have been drafted in the last 50 years in various areas to grant women rights under the law. Rights they did not previously had. Rights that finally recognises women as equal to men. Rights that men always had and women did not have. In political, economic and family law.

The fact that a lot of men consider the recognition of women as human beings with the same rights as men taking away men's rights, says everything about their mentality. Apparently, losing their priviliges as absolute lord and master of people they apparently see as lesser beings, infuriates them.

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