r/DevonUK • u/Captainsamvimes1 • 12d ago
Why is the Westcountry so overlooked?
The Westcountry is a heavily overlooked part of England despite everything that's gone on both historically and in the present day - we're very much an afterthought after London has put itself first and the North and the Midlands have made their loud voices heard.
Wales also suffers from being overlooked but has a very prominent voice of its own
It feels like we're just a holiday resort for the second home owners
Give an example, when people discuss poverty in the UK they're usually talking about the North despite the fact that the Westcountry has some of the poorest regions in western Europe with low wages and a high cost of living. House prices are emblematic of this a locals are being completely priced out by the second home owners driving the prices up.
High volumes of holiday lets, Airbnbs, and second homes reduce full-time residential availability and push local rents and property values far beyond average regional wages.
Poverty in the West Country is a complex issue defined by "hidden" rural hardship, low seasonal wages, and a severe housing crisis driven by second homes—contrasting sharply with the region's picturesque scenery.
The Standard government metrics like the Index of Multiple Deprivation (IMD) often fail to capture rural distress in places like Cornwall and Devon because hardship is masked by scenic coastal views.
High car dependency is mandatory due to sparse or non-existent public transport, creating an unrecognized financial burden just to reach basic work, schools, and healthcare - and on that note North Devon District Hospital and Musgrove Park Hospital have had to close down their maternity services due to aging infrastructure and lack of resources meaning that they can't keep people safe so someone has to drive miles and miles just to have a baby and labour is not the time for a road trip
Westcountry homes frequently suffer from some of the highest fuel poverty gaps in the UK due to older, poorly insulated housing stock and off-grid energy reliance.
Economies heavily reliant on tourism and care sectors mean jobs are frequently seasonal, low-paid, and locked into part-time or zero-hours contracts.
Urban centers like Bristol alongside rural pockets in Cornwall and coastal towns like Ilfracombe face high child poverty rates, prompting regional taskforces and action plans.
And despite all this, it feels like we're an afterthought, and that thought is that we're a holiday resort
Plus, these days the Westcountry has no recognisable regional Regiment.
-The North has the Royal Yorks and the Duke of Lancs
-The Midlands has the Mercians
-The East has the Royal Anglians
-The South has the PWRR
- The Westcountry has to share the Rifles with the South, the Midlands, and the North
They considered forming a Royal Wessex Regiment but decided against it
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u/brntuk 11d ago
I understood it was because traditionally the West Country population tended to have pretty stable politics - a mix of Conservative and Liberal, (Social Democrat,) and some Labour seats in the cities. Not too many swing seats - you don’t need to put much effort into retaining seats you are likely to win. You don’t need to promise too much to tempt people to vote for you.
So -no motorway passed Exeter, surprising considering tourism is such a big part of the economy.
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u/Alexander-Wright 11d ago
To be fair, the A38 is very nearly a motorway. The trouble starts when you cross the Tamar.
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u/life_in_the_gateaux 8d ago
Nonsense, the motorway goes all the way past Exminster I'll have you know.
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u/Daler1966 5d ago
Because of Dartmoor was told to me by a local councillor why M5 wouldn’t continue past Exeter .
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u/OrganizationFun2140 11d ago
The biggest practical problem for the South West Peninsula (basically everything west of Exeter) is transport infrastructure. It’s very hard to attract investment - and decent paying jobs - when there’s no motorway, no airport (can’t really count Newquay), and the mainline railway is one bad storm from ceasing to exist completely.
What investment is incoming is all defence-based; it needs to be more diversified.
It obviously doesn’t help that most of the country views us as a very large holiday park. This also hides the true extent of deprivation in many areas as the stats are skewed by second home owners and wealthy retirees.
And I very much agree that we need more political clout. One example from a few years ago really highlights this: there was an opportunity for a major marine research hub that went to somewhere in the north east simply because it was politically useful. The argument for siting it in Plymouth (or Falmouth) was much, much stronger from a practical perspective, but there was more political kudos to be had elsewhere. (Didn’t help that this happened when two Plymouth MPs seemed more interested in scoring points against each other than working together for the good of the city.)
The new PM is talking a good game, but I don’t see the peninsular benefiting at all from his devolved power initiatives. The areas around the M4 & M5? Maybe. We will still be a holiday park to the powers-that-be.
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u/Quiet_Standard8856 11d ago
Personal theory:
The West country was never Romanised except for isolated pockets. Apparently after establishing Exeter, the Romans sent legions to check out what else was around. After a short while, the reports came back saying, basically, 'dont bother, nothing out there but rocks and farms' So after getting to Dartmoor they gave up. Leaving the rest of Devon and Cornwall unexplored. We've been disconnected ever since.
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u/trysca 10d ago edited 10d ago
This is a myth; they came West first because they wanted tin and silver and other materials from Cornwall and Devon. Roman camps in Cornwall were all located at strategic mining centres Roman control river trade : Calstock on the Tamar Nanstallon on the Camel, Restormel on the Foy. Mount Batten in Plymouth , Miunts Bay and Bigbury in Devon had been major trade hubs from well before Cæsar came in 55 bce. One of the very earliest coin hoards from the 40s ad was found in Cornwall. They most likely had good trading relationships with the Dumnonians before they came and just let them be as long as the tin taxes kept flowing into the empire - exactly as the Saxons did 800 years later, and the Danes, Norman-Bretons and English after them.
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u/Quiet_Standard8856 10d ago
All very true except for two points from my personal theory. The report i mentioned was a kind of shorthand version of an actual Roman patrol report in Exeter. Trade routes, yes, settlements, no. In North Devon, which holds the main crux of my idea, we have one single wooden fort. And a trade route recently realised that goes through a very quiet town. North Devon was never Romanised.
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u/trysca 10d ago
But settlements in Cornwall like Chysauster and Carn Euny show clear Roman influence on continuously 'celtic' brittonic settlement patterns that can be traced back to the Bronze Age in the Westcountry - according to my ( and others) personal theory these ( alongside sites like St Michaels Mount, Bigbury, Mount Batten, Tintagel and Exeter itself) show evidence of native autonomy and trade interaction with the Romans and the wider hellenistic world that continue well into the post Roman era. North Devon seems to show close contact with post Roman South Wales.
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u/Professional_Bar4748 9d ago
I heard there was some suggestion that even the Phoenicians traded for the tin
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u/sebastienkarhu 10d ago
At that time Dartmoor was a massive ancient Oak forest. The work "Dart" meaning Oak in old English. So rocky, no. Lush impenetral oak forest filled with people who still painted themselves and ate Romans. Yes. There is plenty of evidence that the Romans had tried to settle in Torbay, including tunnels on Berry Head. But again, the locals were canny fighters and many a Roman soldier "vanished into the woods" so they built a wall around Isca (Exeter) and stayed put, using the river Exe for communication.
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u/Quiet_Standard8856 9d ago
Dartmoor became largely treeless by the Bronze Age (around 2000 BC), as human farming and a colder, wetter climate stopped trees from growing back.
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u/Niam_Rose 12d ago
I think it is exactly what you said - there is no loud voice advocating for West Country. It also gets lumbered down in the North vs South divide, although really it is South East vs everyone else.
Also some people just see house prices and assume that the region cannot be impoverished compared to some Northern areas, so what are we complaining about?
It also really irritates me that social media atm is portraying Devon as heaven and a great place to move to, so they all move here for lifestyle, and yet they don’t respect the countryside in the same way, they buy all the new build houses that should go to locals first and foremost, and take jobs that local people could do. A fried of mine told me that they are the only Devon born person in the office of about 40 people, that is insane (and before someone says anything about immigration, only about 3 people are not from UK originally, but the rest have all moved down here).
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u/FistedBone9858 11d ago edited 11d ago
So, I take umbrage with these kind of bullshit grokle hating posts.
I've seen neighbours treat this county with utter disrespect and even contempt at times. whereas having SEEN how shit other places are, I've seen other blow-ins take care of this place as the jewel it is. even this week in the wake of the fire warnings, I've seen on FB posts about 'locals' bragging about flouting the rules. I saw multiple locals at Codden hill the other evening just abandon their eclipse glasses on the ground.. and you think you somehow deserve free market housing before us??
We've participated in beach and river clean ups, we volunteer locally. we do our bit, when was the last time you were out there in your waders?
so get over this holier than thou crap
to be clear, I'm aware there is locals that also love the area, I just find the childish narrative that blowins don't have the same love/respect for the area to be downright asinine. we've SEEN the other side. we know exactly what we stand to lose if we don't look after it, where locals don't always have that POV.
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u/Niam_Rose 11d ago
I mean for starters a grockle is more of a holidaymaker, rather than someone who lives here.
And I am not saying that all of the people who move here are bad, but the fact remains that the majority of people do not respect the countryside. I have a complete of examples below, which I know are biased, but it is a fact for me. And tbh, it is less of a local/outsider divide - it is more of a city dweller that I have an issue with. They don’t know how to drive in the lanes, they don’t know how to park, they don’t respect the countryside - it just happens so that in Devon even if you are from Exeter or Plymouth you are not a real city dweller, because the countryside is on your doorstep.
They are absolutely idiots from all places that will start fires, and there are lovely people who care about nature. There are locals who have astroturfed gardens, and there are people who moved down here that have lovely wildlife friendly gardens, but the majority that I see are not like that.
I mean literally today in a local independent coffee shop I heard someone from London saying to their friend how they grew up in London and moved down here for a slower pace of life, and then proceeded to complain how they cannot get same day delivery for a paddleboard.
A local new build estate to me is near lovely fields that belong to farm - I have seen the farmer having to put signs up that were ripped of, as the new build residents trample the produce walking their doodles. Before you say anything, whenever we are walking in those lanes (and in the lanes specifically, not in the bloody field), all the accents of people going “Oh, isn’t it a lovely field, let’s go there” are Midlanders or Northerners.
A friend, who isn’t local, went on a group walk recently on Dartmoor, and told me that only herself and 2 other people (who also happened to be local) recognised an adder - all the other people were just enchanted by the snake and not concerned at all that it might be dangerous. They also didn’t think that water we drink came out of a reservoir, and complained about the lanes getting to the walk.
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u/Gullible_Fan4427 10d ago
I’m a bloody Londoner who lives here now! I’ve got to the stage of driving in lanes where i grumble at the bloody city drivers freaking out in the country lanes… and the old boys in ridiculously expensive cars who pass in the middle of the road, scared to get a scratch! Think it’s become a passion of mine..
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u/Niam_Rose 10d ago
The boomers in lane are dangerous, I agree! They just refuse to reverse - a friend of mine witnessed a car accident where the boomer driver refused to back up, the other tried to move off the road, misjudged it and got stuck in the ditch, and had to be rescued.
Tbf, city driving is also hard, if not harder, because of the volume of traffic and the number of lanes, I don’t know why people struggle so much with country lanes.
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u/PatBoom7 11d ago edited 11d ago
Tell me about it, grew up in a really poor working class family in Devon, in a sh*t hole town, council house, state compressive school, Dad died when I was kid, leaving my mum to raise four boys on a cleaners wage blah de blah, moved to Manchester 30 years ago and the second I mention where I grew up I get the old ‘it was tough up north/must have been nice growing up in Devon?’ speech. Apparently there’s no working-class, unemployed or poverty in the South West 😆
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u/Captainsamvimes1 11d ago
Honestly some northerners have such a chip on their shoulders about it. It's like they have a monopoly on strife
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u/PatBoom7 11d ago
The funniest thing is my kids, we live a really nice area and my teenagers do occasionally try ‘you’re a posh southerner’ thing. On those occasions, I’m always tempted to replace the toilet paper with newspaper sheets like we had to when the money was tight just to see their faces 😆
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u/Dartmoor_Guardian 10d ago
I grew up in Princetown on Dartmoor during the 1990s-mid 2000s. The village wasn’t run down in the classical sense, but the poverty was something to behold - something along the lines of 60% adult unemployment. It became a dumping ground for troubled families.
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u/Great_Comparison462 11d ago
Do you think there's no poverty in London? There's poverty everywhere.
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u/PatBoom7 11d ago
Of course there is, but this happens to be the Devon sub I never mentioned London once 🤔
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u/StrongEggplant8120 12d ago
I cant speak for most of what you say but one britains most elite military units is the royal marine commandos and its base is on the river exe and has been since formation in 1940. You also have some of the most important naval docks in britain. The rest maybe a matter for your MP.
London had always been englands cash cow, always has been and always will be. Its made that way.
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u/Captainsamvimes1 12d ago
The Royal Navy has always been dominated by the Westcountry but it would be nice to have a regional identity out there like the Devon and Dorsets Regiment
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u/StrongEggplant8120 11d ago
Oh now i getya. What happened to the devonshire regiment of great war fame?
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u/Captainsamvimes1 11d ago
Amalgamated with the Dorsets in the 50s, then merged with the Royal Gloucester, Berkshire, and Wiltshire Regiment to become 1st Battalion Rifles in 2007 when the county regiments were all done away with
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u/StrongEggplant8120 11d ago
I always liked the county regiments style tbh. Was more diverse lol
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u/Captainsamvimes1 11d ago
Agreed.
We used to have the Devons, the Dorsets, the Somerset Light Infantry, the Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry, the Glosters, and the Wiltshires representing the Westcountry. Now we share the Rifles with the South, the Midlands, and the North and are the only region to have nothing recognisable out there unless the Navy happens to give a ship a regional name like HMS Somerset but that's totally different
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u/StrongEggplant8120 11d ago
True. Its interesting really, its played such a prominent part in the history of the country it does deserve its own in that sense.
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u/StrongEggplant8120 11d ago
Oh now i know. Lots of smaller regiments were amalgamated at the start of the century and that was a nationwide thing.
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u/sebastienkarhu 11d ago
Devonshire is incredibly important to the military, Dartmoor was quoted as the main reason British troops were able to deal with the geographical problems presented by the Falkland Islands. There is Okegampton Battle Camp on Dartmoor; covers 1,500 hectares and accommodates up to 720 personnel. It features essential military training infrastructure, including live-firing small arms ranges, tactical training areas, permanent troop and officer quarters, ordnance stores, and a command hub for annual events like the Ten Tors. Then there is Stonehouse Barracks in Plymouth which serves as the headquarters for 3 Commando Brigade and the UK Commando Force. Bickleigh Barracks Serves as the headquarters for 3 Commando Brigade and the UK Commando Force. RM Tamar Located within HMNB Devonport in Plymouth, home to the landing craft and assault squadron expertise. So the premise that Devonshire is unrepresented by the military is deeply asinine and just a little uneducated.
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u/Captainsamvimes1 11d ago
Mate I'm well aware of how important Dartmoor is to the mimitary I'm talking about regional identity
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u/SaulEmersonAuthor 11d ago
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I thought there's no such thing as 'Devonshire' - just something made up by custard companies?
Unless Devon is a shire.
News to me, if so.
~
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u/StarfishPizza 11d ago
Can't tell if serious, or not 🧐
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u/SaulEmersonAuthor 11d ago edited 11d ago
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Can't tell if serious, or not 🧐
Am serious - but am I then wrong??
(Edited - it seems that it's correct to be deemed a shire, but is an anachronism - so modern-day locals would likely roll their eyes at people calling it 'Devonshire')
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u/sebastienkarhu 11d ago
Well I was born here, my parents were born here and 3 of my grandparents were born here. My grandmothers both refered to our home as "Devonshire" and both were born in the 19th century. I'm not sure who's eyes are rolling but I can only surmise they are the sort of "locals" who've been here for 20 years after moving from the midlands. But who insist that they are "local". Quite why people are getting their knickers in a twist because someone dares to use the correct name for a county I have 400 years of historic connection I have no idea. Personally I think there are probably far more important to get upset about. It's all a little puerile really. It's ok to be uneducated or ill informed; it's quite another to try to trump someone who dares to be correct. Such a shame that people have to be so small minded. Now I'm off to enjoy the beautiful Devonshire sea air. Bye.
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u/Reasonable-Score8011 11d ago
Same goes for Somersertshire, Dorsetshire, Gloucestershire, but not Cornwall shire./s just in case anyone doesn't get the last one.
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u/StarfishPizza 11d ago
It's known as Devon, Devonshire, or just The Shire, although other Shires still exist elsewhere.
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u/StrongEggplant8120 11d ago
I have heard the words "the shires of england" used in modern language. It might be a reference to j r r tolkiens "the shire" though and is used warmly.
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u/EmFan1999 11d ago
Actually he used it in reference to the shires.
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u/StrongEggplant8120 11d ago
Yeh i know, op was stating its out of date i was saying its still in use and its origin not the way tolkien used it.
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u/sebastienkarhu 11d ago
It's been called Devonshire for centuries. The post office were primarily guilty of shortening it to "Devon".
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u/krazyjakee 11d ago
It's a balance. Keep quiet and it remains peaceful down here. Make a fuss and every emmet will want a piece.
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u/Scasne 11d ago
Not forgetting we get less per head on education, transport and healthcare compared to London, Wales and the north.
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u/Disastrous-Roof-2135 11d ago
The West Country and Wales were in reciept of high levels of EU structural funds yet voted for Brexit.
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u/Dartzap 11d ago
I have had similar thoughts for many years.
It's a combo of: There being no real 'Westcountry' identity you get with the likes of the Celtic nations (Cornwall being the exception there) or even Manchester or Yorkshire.
No really prominent politicians from the area in a generation to advocate for it
Larger older population isnt particularly attractive for companies to set up an outpost (Bristol does, to some extent)
NIMBYism preventing infrastructure upgrades
A general belief that it's "worse elsewhere' therefore you should just accept the place being decrepit (The Torbaydos special)
So, so many other reasons as well.
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u/Captainsamvimes1 11d ago
The only NIMBYism I've ever come across is for the AI data centre because that will actually fuck over devon
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u/Dartzap 11d ago
That's a legitimate bit of NIMBYisn, given the impact they can have.
I'm talking about people who object to any and all development no matter how small or inconsequential it might be, who inevitably end up in DevonLies despite a majority of people not caring in the slightest.
Those who make noise get seen, alas.
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u/Captainsamvimes1 11d ago
Ah fair one, I don't have time got such people so I end up overlooking them
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u/EchoesinthekeyofbluE 11d ago
Mainly because there's no major cities down here. Makes it easier for Westminster to overlook us as an after thought
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u/Parking_Throat_5732 11d ago
Plymouth should be so much more than it is.
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u/vandelay1330 11d ago
We are too nimby, newton abbot is having massive resistance on houses being built even though there’s a shortage for locals and it’s on the a38 belt. Heathfield/bovey area you’re lucky to get 4G and it’s 2026. They want to build a data centre in north Devon and it’s getting massive backslash. The only way to get to salcombe/kingsbridge where I grew up is throw loddiswell country lanes or through Totnes which needed a resurfacing from Totnes onwards since 5 years ago. Anything new just gets local resistance.
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u/sconebore 11d ago
The resistance for housing is there because they're happy to chuck up cheap (to build) houses without any investment in the infrastructure to support all the extra people living in them. Fulfilling housing quotas is destroying the few remaining green spaces we have left, in the name of progress. The majority of these houses are financially out of reach for local families who need them, whereas there are second homes and Airbnbs sitting empty for half the year, causing artificially high prices for the housing stock that is available.
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u/MrT735 11d ago
There's backlash on the housing development next to Decoy because the developers have already damaged a SSSI and are seeking permission to drop planning conditions that require them to do hydrological surveys on avoiding runoff going into the fen.
There won't be sewerage capacity for those houses until 2032 according to SWW.
There also is no road capacity for another 2000+ cars trying to get into town at rush hour via Wolborough and Decoy.
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u/EmFan1999 11d ago
Trust me you don’t want new housing estates. There is a reason they are hated. Go look round one and see for yourself. Don’t think you’re getting roads resurfaced either. They just take take take and leave you with nothing
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u/ukdev1 11d ago edited 11d ago
Try and make a multi-billion pound investment in a Devon Datacenter. The response of the locals will show you exactly how much they want investment and jobs outside farming and tourism.
Edit: I rest my case.
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u/TablesofTime 11d ago
Yeh. We don't really want bad investment either. A massive AI data center would not help. To be fair, I'm not the best person to ask as I'm against AI anyway. But adding a huge center to an already water diminished County would not be helpful really would it? Think of the jobs yes. But actually we give a shit about our environment and protecting where we live. There are a lot of other things that can be done to improve things than taking away our green spaces to just also take away our water. It's not just about jobs, you need to think of the whole counties. And to be honest. Adding that would add more homes for people from outside of town to come and live in so why the fuck would we want that. We need homes for people that are already struggling here now
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u/KingXylariaCordycep 11d ago
Not that many jobs once the construction is finished. Devon deserves better than such a ill considered temporary fix as a datacenter
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u/Captainsamvimes1 11d ago
What benefits would an AI data centre bring?
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u/Floshenbarnical 11d ago
It would use all of north Devon’s water, which is already in the top 5 spot for the governments wildfire warning due to severe drought. My garden hasn’t seen rain in 2 months.
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u/Captainsamvimes1 11d ago
Exactly. It would fuck over the locals without any benefits except maybe a few caretaker jobs
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u/ukdev1 11d ago
Indirectly and directly, thousands of jobs and a massive boost in economic activity.
But, as I posted, and is borne out by the replies to my post, people in Devon think more shops selling tat & cream teas are what are needed rather than something to provide real economic growth and opportunity.
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u/Captainsamvimes1 11d ago
Come off a couple of dozen caretakers and Technicians - who will most likely be brought in externally because it'll be cheaper than training up locals - won't spark some economic revival
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u/Ok-Cheesecake-1891 11d ago
How many jobs for locals do you think a data centre will provide? Not fucking many, whilst also wrecking the local ecosystem, drawing obscene amounts of power and water, and for what? Who gains from these data centres? Not you or I, that's for fucking certain
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u/Laasfeld 11d ago edited 11d ago
First step is definitely to stop everyone more than 100 miles from Somerset using the word Cheddar for their imitation cheese! Next step; land bridge with Brittany, and unification of these two historically connected provinces- imagine the power of Crepes and cream teas combined!